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The miracle worker spec seems pointless
captaintroika
Member Posts: 210 Arc User
It's already easy to keep yourself alive in most situations just by using the proper boff skills and traits. The main sources of death tend to be sudden spikes from being hit by huge crits that nail you for way more than your max hull, and the spec won't help with that.
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So are they releasing new ships with new boff powers to complement? All the other full specs had them, but I've seen nothing indicating that this one will....
The last paragraph in the announcement blog talks about BOff abilities and Miracle Worker ships, so I'd say that those are coming.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Or a half-thought out attempt to sell more ships. If there's not going to be a T7, then we'll have to get used to new strange seatings to keep sales alive. What next? A Councillor boff set of powers where you can make friends with bad guys instead of blowing them up?
I'm sure the Devs will make and release an amazing Discovery of new ships for this Spec.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
But then I suspect neither do most people.
I mean, as it is, I have to fly escorts on my Engineering characters, because those are the only ships squishy enough to actually need Miracle Worker (whatever its called now). And I'm not sure that's even necessary, as I fly an escort on a Sci-Captain with few problems.
The one ability seems nice, the one that boosts critical chance with heals.. but I don't see enough here that would ever convince me to slot it as my primary spec over Intelligence. Depending on how the tree is laid out it might have some potential as a secondary spec. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Maybe they're gonna reveal some reeeeeeally good high tier abilities later but I doubt it.
Well, they are great at Elite stuff.
Our HSE speed run/record for example had 2 straight DPS ships, 2 CC/DPS ships and a tank. Proper PVE tanks can keep substantial aggro off the rest of the team, allowing the DPS ships to go really aggressive without much fear of dying. In that HSE run for example, IIRC the tank got over 60% of the Atks-In.
I also go around PUGging with a buddy who likes making tanking builds, and even in Advanced, I can tell you it makes a big difference. With someone who can take 80-90% of the Atks-In in an ISA for example, I can use Threatening Stance for additional CD reductions or sit with full stacks of Anchored without worrying about my dropped resistances for example.
From what I read so far, there is nothing there that ensures better threat generation (at least not directly). I wish we had more hard taunts to be honest, or higher threat multipliers. From what I'm seeing so far from the blog and patch notes, using this will turn you essentially into a turtle. This spec looks more useful as a a healboat spec than an actual tanking spec right now.
This is just conjecture on my part though, since I haven't tested the spec yet. But I fear the DPS loss from using this would mean aggro problems for tanks at high-end runs.
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Nice, would have been so easy to increase threat level considerably with each point speced into the new tree.
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We've seen more emphasis on team play with the newer Lukari PvE's.. maybe we'll need more survivability in new queues they have planned.. (hopeful optimism)
Or maybe its meant to be another layer of protection one can utilize for PvP gameplay.
(tbh I've not looked at it the spec yet, just speculating here)
To be honest, it could be very interesting especially Embolden which is one of the few options for engineers in space to increase their critical hit ratio through abilities.
Just because you haven't run into them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Kinda like how not being able to see the curvature of the Earth from the ground doesn't mean it is flat.
A good example is Florian, who tanks on both his main (a Tac) and one of his alts (an Eng). Here are 2 PUG runs I had with him:
This was my best L>R run. I was flying a high DPS exotic damage boat with Threatening Stance turned on. I had more than double his DPS, but look at his attacks-in percentage.
Now this one was with his Eng. I was flying the same ship, Threat Stance on once again for CD reductions. Like in the previous run, I had more than twice his DPS. We also had less people on the team.
This is what a normal run for me is without a tank:
Sometimes I go as high as 70% Attacks-In on that same ship. And that was with Threatening Stance turned off.
This is my own attempt at a tank:
That was my "for fun" build. It's a Galaxy (which isn't even the best tanking platform) built to canon specs ([over] Phasers with photon torps fore and aft) so it is DPS limited. But I am averaging 70-80% Atks-In with this thing, going as high as 96% in really bad PUGs.
The problem is that there are so few of them right now, especially after S13. Prior to S13, aggro builds were the meta. The S13 nerfs hit those kinds of builds really hard. So now, very few build for them. I know maybe 7 or 8 true PVE tanks right now, not those turtles that build zombie ships and believe they are tanking. Those 8 people rarely play anymore and if they do, they rarely bring their tanks.
On the topic of pre-mades, you'll generally run into a tank in HSE runs. For example, my last run:
Didn't bother blotting out the names of the folks on that run since we're all friends, and they wouldn't mind me posting that.
61% in HSE is really good. That amount of aggro taken off us let us run more aggressively (I had Threat Stance on again and so did others I think).
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Perhaps we all play in different countries and translate the word “need” differently?
Can having a PvE tank in team be beneficial to some maps around if the rest of the team wants to specialize in something else?
Yes.
Do we need PvE tanks in any way to beat any of the content in game?
No.
Tanks are an option to play and the new spec from first looks a wasted opportunity in that regard.
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Yeah definitely not a need. However, they can be a big QOL improvement when you are teamed with a competent one. Especially in a PUG environment.
It's almost like asking... do you really need over 100k?
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“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Perhaps ordinary engineering has been deliberately left underpowered in order to sell what was once a free leveling acquisition and very good.
Haven't played tanks in a while, but my science ships, raiders, and even specialist cruisers and battlecruisers have been slotting nothing but tac, sci, and specialist seating (Engi CMD specialists), relying on defenses in other ways, not least of all destroying mobs before they have a chance to test defenses or endurance.
Yep, but only almost as DPS beats the content in the end and a tank in team just changes the way you approach it.
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Yeah, it's kinda pointless. Even if we were to need extra survivability, which we don't, then it can still never compete with any of the other spec trees (save 'Commando', maybe, LOL).
Miracle Worker BoFF abilities and Kit powers are still under wraps. Additionally, Commander Specialization seating ships usually have some sort of "gimmick power". In this case, it's probably "click for more heals" but we'll see.
So far, I'm a little disappointed. I had hoped for a balance of heals and power management. You know, the OTHER thing Engineers are good at. Maybe there will be some power management BoFF abilities or maybe the "gimmick power" is focused around power management.
I really do not want to necro my epic embassy +threat scaling consoles across multiple since the great nerf balance pass, especially since certain heavy ships don't offer many science slots as it is, and not even sure how effective those are vs high DPS AoE builds anyways. My last respec was put in for extra pet damage as well, instead of the amplified aggro multiplier, so I have even less ability to threaten or hide from NPCs.
You'll find lot's of DPS focused guides that will have some heals instead of those pure glass cannon builds.
The thing is that an integral part of tanking is taking the heat off the team and that relies on a borderline broken and a$$-backwards mechanic.
Threat is generated by DPS. All the other stuff sadly barely influences that and a spec that focuses only on heals while not even touching the threat issue has zero utility for actual tanking purposes since slotting that over specs would just reduce DPS a.k.a. the fuel for threat.
MW could turn out to be an OP PVP support thing but for PVE it looks like it'll be borderline useless.
> where2r1 wrote: »
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> Hmmm...interesting. Tanking...I need to go read more about that.
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> You'll find lot's of DPS focused guides that will have some heals instead of those pure glass cannon builds.
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> The thing is that an integral part of tanking is taking the heat off the team and that relies on a borderline broken and a$$-backwards mechanic.
> Threat is generated by DPS. All the other stuff sadly barely influences that and a spec that focuses only on heals while not even touching the threat issue has zero utility for actual tanking purposes since slotting that over specs would just reduce DPS a.k.a. the fuel for threat.
> MW could turn out to be an OP PVP support thing but for PVE it looks like it'll be borderline useless.
That is simply not true. Dps is one way to get attacks in but not the only way. HSE the other day I done 44k deeps with 77% attacks in. Others in the run were 120k 110k 90k and some lad with terrible lag and dc's was stuck on 10k. So yeah, there are other ways apart from dps to scale your threat so you can grab and keep aggro.
If they ever did release a Counselor set, you'd have to avoid using it on any of your helm officers or you'd be saucer-first into the nearest planet before you could blink.