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Thoughts on Dranuur

I think this is a good start in encouraging player interaction within the game. However, the nooby goodies in the holding stores are going to need to be good to get people grinding out those special provisions. Based on what I am hearing about in the testing thread, 5 player clearing missions and what not, they're going to be a chore, but one that will encourage players working together if they're successful.

Some people are going to gripe about being in small fleets (I just read about one man fleets the other day, guess they're not doing this holding, sry), not being able to form teams, and the usual resistances. But don't worry about them. Just make the goodies REALLY sweet and people will slowly shut up as they sneak back to grindstone like good little slaves.

I say, why not take this concept a bit further and increase participation in endgame queues? Link each stage of the holding to a faction-specific, advanced or better, STF award? Require x amount of borg neural processors, assessed stratagems, etc., a different one depending on which tier your fleet is working on.

This will be a lot more work than dumping dilithium or grinding out crystalline catastrophy, so sweeten the deal by never requiring dilithium in this particular holding. No dilithium can be it's "thang" in some of your advertising.

As for those rewards ... here's my suggestion. With tier 6 ships now established, and with a whole new career class on the way, why not put a chunk of the tier 5 lockbox/c-store fleet up for grabs. What better way to use ships that are gradually losing their relevance in the game anyway?
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Holdings actually help balance out the Dilithium Exchange. When the Starbase was being worked on, it was basically the Golden Age for the Dilithium Exchange. These days we're lucky to stay around 300/1.
    While the larger fleets won't have any problems with any Dilithium inputs, it may get some of the smaller fleets trading Zen for Dilithium, thus increasing the demand for Dilithium. Higher demand for Dilithium = lower exchange rate for Zen. That's a win/win for everyone. Especially F2Pers who need the zen and have the time to grind dilithium.

    There is no new career class coming. We have a new Spec Tree. And they're not going to put T5 lockbox or c-store ships in a holding. That is lost income for Cryptic. People are still going to buy T5s, either for admiralty cards or consoles to complete ship sets that cross tiers, like the Galaxy set.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    While your discussion of this feature is appreciated, I'd like to remind everyone that this feature is still in testing on Tribble, and the involved developers are focused on looking to the Tribble sub-forums for feedback and bug reports. If you have suggestions and feedback, it would be helpful to post it there.

    Tribble Subforums
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Well unlike some who just wildly acuse the player testers of being cretins, I actually checked the feedback on the Tribble Forums. From the Patch Notes on April 18th and Feedback Thread on April 20th to the fixes on May 12th, the Tribble feedback was uniformly in the negative column. Ranging from this is not needed, don't do this, to you need such-and-such and this-and-that otherwise it won't work at all.

    Cryptic does what it wants to do. But be aware, the bulk of the feedback in the Patch Notes Thread were directed at the so-called 'balancing' pass.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmvt7yFTtt8
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Cryptic does what it wants to do.

    Yeah, unfortunately, even if people do actually test things on Tribble and report bugs or provide feedback, it's still ultimately up to Cryptic as to whether they will address those bugs or take that feedback into serious consideration.

    Also, you know the current state of the game isn't optimal when even certain members of the board aren't being their usual sycophantic selves in regard to Cryptic's decisions....
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User

    You have some pretty good ideas on the new holdings OP. I especially like how you put elite currencies from the respective reputations to good use. Such a thing would really bind all the content together in this game and work out nicely.

    Sadly, as things stand at the moment, cryptic has other plans. I play this game for 5 years flat now and from what I understand what S13 did for PvE S14 will do to fleets. The new contribution mechanics under the available options are beyond absurd and a massive turn off for everybody dedicated to base building.

    Given the contribution behavior of most player I know large fleets are not off the hook at all here. On the contrary, those who feel in charge there get highly pressurized if they want to keep on offering the best toys to their players in the long run.

    I wish more peeps would report to the threads linked by Bort.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    For the casual player-base (I don’t know if everybody can even give tribble feedback) here is a post of one of the cool peeps who check the new stuff out for the community. It should give you a sneak peek what cryptic has in mind for you:

    dukedom01 wrote: »

    Let me enlighten you with some MATH.

    To complete the colony holding you need a total of 9.839.697 provisions. That is without any fancy unlocks like tailor at all.

    That is just a bit shy of 50.000 minigames played. (49.200)

    To avoid any project stalling you want that amount gathered in roughly 230 days

    And this translates into 214 minigames a day, every day, without exception for the next 8 months.

    Now you could say that there is autocollection of provisions. Assuming it works without a hitch and actually allows you to contribute in a timely fashion (w/o having to idle projects, because we have no fraking clue how autocollect is supposed to work atm) the mind boggling 10 million provisions become a far more managable number.

    With best scenario autocollect you still need 8.497.797 provisions. Thats 42.489 minigames at 185 per day.

    Given how eager players are in parting with other high demand building resources (i.e. dilithium) I really don't see how even a 20 player fleet will pull that off. Remember provisions reward nothing, they simply vanish into a black hole.

    And do not forget that the other resource requirements for building the holding are far from trivial either, there are still approximately 70 million of fleet credits in that holding, 'only' 10/15 million less than a full fleet starbase would generate.

    And for the sake of completion let's run the scenario that you stop playing the fun minigames and let autocollect take care of it.
    First you 'still' need to gather 103k provisions to even get to the point where autocollect 'should' start (remember we actually do not know how exactly it should work).
    Tier 2 should be finished collecting after 91 days.
    Tier 3 will be done after 266 days.
    Tier 4 needs 511 days.
    Tier 5 is done after 1.163 days.

    Congratulations! Santa brought you a Tier 5 Fleet Colony for Christmas. In 2020.

    Sounds good eh?
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    For the casual player-base (I don’t know if everybody can even give tribble feedback) here is a post of one of the cool peeps who check the new stuff out for the community. It should give you a sneak peek what cryptic has in mind for you:

    dukedom01 wrote: »

    Let me enlighten you with some MATH.

    To complete the colony holding you need a total of 9.839.697 provisions. That is without any fancy unlocks like tailor at all.

    That is just a bit shy of 50.000 minigames played. (49.200)

    To avoid any project stalling you want that amount gathered in roughly 230 days

    And this translates into 214 minigames a day, every day, without exception for the next 8 months.

    Now you could say that there is autocollection of provisions. Assuming it works without a hitch and actually allows you to contribute in a timely fashion (w/o having to idle projects, because we have no fraking clue how autocollect is supposed to work atm) the mind boggling 10 million provisions become a far more managable number.

    With best scenario autocollect you still need 8.497.797 provisions. Thats 42.489 minigames at 185 per day.

    Given how eager players are in parting with other high demand building resources (i.e. dilithium) I really don't see how even a 20 player fleet will pull that off. Remember provisions reward nothing, they simply vanish into a black hole.

    And do not forget that the other resource requirements for building the holding are far from trivial either, there are still approximately 70 million of fleet credits in that holding, 'only' 10/15 million less than a full fleet starbase would generate.

    And for the sake of completion let's run the scenario that you stop playing the fun minigames and let autocollect take care of it.
    First you 'still' need to gather 103k provisions to even get to the point where autocollect 'should' start (remember we actually do not know how exactly it should work).
    Tier 2 should be finished collecting after 91 days.
    Tier 3 will be done after 266 days.
    Tier 4 needs 511 days.
    Tier 5 is done after 1.163 days.

    Congratulations! Santa brought you a Tier 5 Fleet Colony for Christmas. In 2020.

    Sounds good eh?
    Oh.

    Oooooh...

    ...

    And this is at this point Cryptic should ask what kind of degree the responsible for this abomination has. Also, his last maths score. Also, his psychiatric evaluation.

    Also, you know what, TRIBBLE that, what the hell?! There is collection, then there is grind and then there is madness... And then there is THAT!
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    This is a HOLDING G*D D*MNIT. The requirements to get it to Tier 5 (absurd though that is) should be NOWHERE near what the Starbase cost. This is just another grind sink, basically awarding new versions of just about everything that has been offered already.

    They really have NO clue on how to make a game fun. If you just wanted people to build another Starbase just say so. They have already sucked a great deal of Dilitium out of the system with THREE Phoenix Prize Pack Events since December.

    Will this be how comments are received in testing this?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xJz9dLyRI8
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    For the casual player-base (I don’t know if everybody can even give tribble feedback) here is a post of one of the cool peeps who check the new stuff out for the community. It should give you a sneak peek what cryptic has in mind for you:

    dukedom01 wrote: »

    Let me enlighten you with some MATH.

    To complete the colony holding you need a total of 9.839.697 provisions. That is without any fancy unlocks like tailor at all.

    That is just a bit shy of 50.000 minigames played. (49.200)

    To avoid any project stalling you want that amount gathered in roughly 230 days

    And this translates into 214 minigames a day, every day, without exception for the next 8 months.

    Now you could say that there is autocollection of provisions. Assuming it works without a hitch and actually allows you to contribute in a timely fashion (w/o having to idle projects, because we have no fraking clue how autocollect is supposed to work atm) the mind boggling 10 million provisions become a far more managable number.

    With best scenario autocollect you still need 8.497.797 provisions. Thats 42.489 minigames at 185 per day.

    Given how eager players are in parting with other high demand building resources (i.e. dilithium) I really don't see how even a 20 player fleet will pull that off. Remember provisions reward nothing, they simply vanish into a black hole.

    And do not forget that the other resource requirements for building the holding are far from trivial either, there are still approximately 70 million of fleet credits in that holding, 'only' 10/15 million less than a full fleet starbase would generate.

    And for the sake of completion let's run the scenario that you stop playing the fun minigames and let autocollect take care of it.
    First you 'still' need to gather 103k provisions to even get to the point where autocollect 'should' start (remember we actually do not know how exactly it should work).
    Tier 2 should be finished collecting after 91 days.
    Tier 3 will be done after 266 days.
    Tier 4 needs 511 days.
    Tier 5 is done after 1.163 days.

    Congratulations! Santa brought you a Tier 5 Fleet Colony for Christmas. In 2020.

    Sounds good eh?
    You know what...those provisions are Fleet Marks, the sequel.

    When the Starbase was new, fleets would run the FM queues all community-like to get the projects going. Because they had to. It was nice. But Cryptic messed that up by oversupplying fleet marks to the point they're dumped like so much garbage, so now they're trying again with the provisions.

    Except if they don't even give credits for turning them in, they're gonna be even worse garbage after this is over.
  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    Haha. 200+ mini games a day? 9,000,000 provisions? Hope that one gets fixed. Mr. Developer did say they were still in testing, so all's fair til it goes live.

    Hope it's not that much. Maybe my first year playing but now I can't even drag myself over to the dilithium mine. I'd never commit to another grind that large at this stage of my STO player lifecycle.

    But I will fetishize and pursue new shiny things if you hide them behind a collaborative fleet holding donation wall!
  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    Bear in mind, this isn't supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be busy work to distract people from the lack of new content in the game. At least the people who will log in every day no matter what.
  • gannadenegannadene Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    Make no bones about it: the holding is just a mindless grind project for players that think those sorts of things are important. MMO players tend to have this problem, especially in systems like STO's, where there was never any player-sustained regenerating system put into place (like a true colonization system, a Masters of Orion style exploration system, or a territory-based faction battlezone, etc).

    I imagine I'll just stop playing once it comes out. I really don't want to have to listen to the one or two fleet/armada commanders screaming into chat at the two or three people still playing to get to work mining the colony fields.

    I imagine they're going to sell resource packs for zen, or something equally sleazy. So that should keep the whales "happy."

    Perhaps the weirdest part of this is that I never hear what this holding is supposed to be for. Unless it starts generating lobi, I can't imagine anything in this cesspool of a "content" addition being worth anyone's time. It really does speak volumes for how disconnected the creation team is with reality. It's common practice to release test versions openly with inflated numbers to see what the public will let you get away with, since you can just claim later they were merely "test values." But even for that practice, these values are laughable. Even for the mindless drones that log in to grind number meters.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Thing is getting beyond ridiculous. They even expect the fleets to slot special projects enabling to play the new related PvE in the first place.

    I know quite a few peeps in this game and nobody is willing to even come up with 1% of what they would need to come up with in order to pull this off.

    They could cut the demands in half or divide them by ten and it would still be a bottomless pit.

    One just needs to look at the mini-games they expect us to do each day for nothing in order to see that the whole concept of this title is to be questioned much more than the requirements to bring.

    This game was on such a good track last year at this time and now two stupid dissensions in a row ruin it all again. So sad. :(
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    nabreeki wrote: »
    But GUYS, the tribble feedback subforum is there for you to point all this out so the devs can take notes and make this new rollout fun for the playerbase

    Translation: Post your comments in the Tribble Feedback forum so that the dev team can ignore all of it and roll out the bug riddled horrible content to the live server as is because cryptic is always right.

    They're so damn out of touch at this point it's like they don't even care.

    This impossible grind fest is just another example of how little they understand about the player base. Totally clueless.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I stopped playing Tribble when they stopped giving rewards for it.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Prego, it's in there already. The Tribble Forums do point out the ludicrousness of all of this. The post above with all the numbers was originally posted in the Tribble Feedback Forum on the Colony.

    There are no pro responses there at all.
    Post edited by ltminns on
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    To anyone that wants a short but detailed explanation of Cryptic's latest 'great idea,' head over to YouTube and check out SOB's Casual Corner's great review.

    Colony Fleet Holding - Your new 2nd Job.

    This will be the biggest hit since Delta Rising!
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    So is that what Sompek was all about? This.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    But GUYS, the tribble feedback subforum is there for you to point all this out so the devs can take notes and make this new rollout fun for the playerbase

    Tribble feedback is largely ignored. Looks at you Tzenkethi Battlezone as an example
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    ltminns wrote: »
    So is that what Sompek was all about? This.

    Could also be that the enthusiasm the community dedicated to the omega mini-game during past anniversaries gave them ideas?

    If there would be a high roller map like Sompek or especially the old NWS, something that would reward so good that if elite players team up and beat it to farm the daily marks, I could live with that somehow.

    Sadly this is not the case here. Current figures show max rewards of 600 provisions for the new PvE after 40 minutes of play and 12000 (!) Provisions needed for a basic Tier 4 XP daily. A PvE we need to pay for to be able to launch it in the first place.

    Also thanks for linking the video Sea. :/
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    nabreeki wrote: »
    But GUYS, the tribble feedback subforum is there for you to point all this out so the devs can take notes and make this new rollout fun for the playerbase

    Translation: Post your comments in the Tribble Feedback forum so that the dev team can ignore all of it and roll out the bug riddled horrible content to the live server as is because cryptic is always right.

    They're so damn out of touch at this point it's like they don't even care.

    This impossible grind fest is just another example of how little they understand about the player base. Totally clueless.
    They don't.

    Look at the non-Odyssey uniforms which are seen in Beyond the Nexus, which are getting replaced with Odyssey uniforms in a patch.

    To me, that speaks of content which was completed without care, pushed out before it was ready, with the apethetic attitude of "We'll just fix it later..." :(

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • gannadenegannadene Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    I stopped playing Tribble when they stopped giving rewards for it.

    Related tangent: a problem with Tribble feedback is that it's mostly just whales and a tiny portion of the base that utilizes it, so the feedback they get is incredibly stilted. In some cases, it actually makes the game worse, since the people doing the testing have unrealistic priorities.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Every time I see "Dranuur" I want to say "Draenor"
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
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