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The gazillionth thread about the New PvE UI and how bugged it is. Falling on Cryptics Deaf Ears

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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Ok Reddit has been established as Marmite you either love it or hate it.

    Lets try to get back on track and ask the impossible and that's fixing this UI before a million Players suddenly cry out in terror as their PC screen flickers and dies after suffering PvE UI rage
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    Yeah, there is no love for the new Queue UI anywhere.. here or on Reddit.

    Personally, I like Reddit but I just don't post there. I don't care for the Reddit format so I don't actually use it but it is the 'go to' place for real knowledge about STO. I personally have learned quite a bit from the Reddit as well as /r/stobuilds. There is a ton of great information on Reddit and some pretty great posters as well.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    Wait wait wait... I remember when this abomination of new queue UI came out, there was this one person who genuinely seemed to like it and was downvoted into oblivion. Most of the people didn't like it there either, and they still hate it.

    And Reddit folks criticise Cryptic a lot. People like SOB or Rev make often extremely critical comments, and get lots of upvotes.

    However the difference is that on Reddit, more (and no, I did not say *majority*) people know actually how the game works, and thus have better ideas what and how to improve. And by "know actually how the game works" I mean up to finest details, not only that "tac consoles give cat1 dmg buff" (which, btw, was first discovered and made public by no other than a Reddit expert).

    Also, those same people are just sick to death that a lot of forum users constantly spread misinformation, or vilify all the people who dare to use a parser, or make "please nerf this"-posts just in spite of their own personal biases, and later when something gets nerfed, they cry that their own build has been rendered useless (cause nerfs should've only affected the evil DPSers, and they possibly couldn't foresee it affecting themselves as well). Or pointlessly argue that extremely detailed and in many cases, developer-verified math done by Reddit guys is completely wrong. Or simply refuse to see the big picture, in many cases even failing to understand there is one.

    Mind you, I'm not saying that forums are full of bad people. I genuinely enjoy reading insights made by nice ppl like @e30ernest (ok, maybe he doesn't count cause he's more of a Redditor), @meimeitoo, @peterconnorfirst or @seaofsorrows. However, at least for me, main impression of Reddit is bastion of knowledge and game mechanics, with all the absolutely amazing stuff compiled by ppl like Jay or Atem. Forums - sorry, but I just see the negativity/stupidity here far more often, without enough positivity/knowledge to balance it out.

    I don't see misinformation being spread here all too often. Certainly not with respect to the UI issue. I think it's a matter of what everyone decides to focus on.

    Though I agree that understanding the bigger picture is often absent here; especially with respect to the need of the recent rebalancing.

    To be fair, I don't visit Reddit all that often. I don't need knowledge about the game, besides what I can gather myself. I was just referring to Reddit because the developers seem to have no problem being there and being active over there, while complaining about their own Forums which aren't all that bad in reality.

    If people indeed also complain about the game on Reddit, then that makes it even stranger that the Forum has such a bad name imo.

    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    Ok Reddit has been established as Marmite you either love it or hate it.

    Lets try to get back on track and ask the impossible and that's fixing this UI before a million Players suddenly cry out in terror as their PC screen flickers and dies after suffering PvE UI rage
    Ok Reddit has been established as Marmite you either love it or hate it.

    Lets try to get back on track and ask the impossible and that's fixing this UI before a million Players suddenly cry out in terror as their PC screen flickers and dies after suffering PvE UI rage

    It would be good to know if they're working on it. Maybe they are, but in that case the silence isn't helping. Them, nor us.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    It would be good to know if they're working on it. Maybe they are, but in that case the silence isn't helping. Them, nor us.

    This "silence" is actually what does the most damage i feel.
    They've created a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby they ignore the OFFICIAL forums due to them being too "wild" for their liking and then in turn this pisses off people here even more.
    Perhaps showing face in all format equally would go some way towards smoothing over the relationship troubles between the devs & players.

    But overall the impression given by the devs is that a lot of complaints (many genuine) are simply ignored because they have no interest in listening of considering changing things. This UI issue is a prime example, there has been next to nothing from any dev on this subject despite constant threads both here and Reddit expressing the displeasure people have with it.
    SulMatuul.png
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It would be good to know if they're working on it. Maybe they are, but in that case the silence isn't helping. Them, nor us.

    This "silence" is actually what does the most damage i feel.
    They've created a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby they ignore the OFFICIAL forums due to them being too "wild" for their liking and then in turn this pisses off people here even more.
    Perhaps showing face in all format equally would go some way towards smoothing over the relationship troubles between the devs & players.

    But overall the impression given by the devs is that a lot of complaints (many genuine) are simply ignored because they have no interest in listening of considering changing things. This UI issue is a prime example, there has been next to nothing from any dev on this subject despite constant threads both here and Reddit expressing the displeasure people have with it.
    But they actually have improved the UI from what it was immediately after the revamp. It's not enough, the system is still far inferior to the old one, but clearly they haven't ignored all of it.

    Then again, a lot of the complaints on the forums are just whining about trivial things and/or demanding more stuff for less gameplay/money which I don't fault them in the slightest for ignoring.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Well after this afternoons usual UI experience the wallet i've opened will be shut tight again until this frustrating experience is given the proper attention it deserves. £112 in the last 30 days for starters. Pays for Xmas



    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It would be good to know if they're working on it. Maybe they are, but in that case the silence isn't helping. Them, nor us.

    This "silence" is actually what does the most damage i feel.
    They've created a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy whereby they ignore the OFFICIAL forums due to them being too "wild" for their liking and then in turn this pisses off people here even more.
    Perhaps showing face in all format equally would go some way towards smoothing over the relationship troubles between the devs & players.

    But overall the impression given by the devs is that a lot of complaints (many genuine) are simply ignored because they have no interest in listening of considering changing things. This UI issue is a prime example, there has been next to nothing from any dev on this subject despite constant threads both here and Reddit expressing the displeasure people have with it.
    But they actually have improved the UI from what it was immediately after the revamp. It's not enough, the system is still far inferior to the old one, but clearly they haven't ignored all of it.

    Then again, a lot of the complaints on the forums are just whining about trivial things and/or demanding more stuff for less gameplay/money which I don't fault them in the slightest for ignoring.

    Well there have been plenty of discussions and debates on whether what you call 'whining' should be perceived as such, or rather as suggestions made by enthusiastic players who wish to see improvements in the game they love to play. Both types of threads have been present and are continuously posted, and the presence of the former shouldn't be an excuse not to listen to the latter.

    Of course they can choose to ignore everything because there are some awful posts to be found here. But whether that's a wise thing to do is an entirely different story.

    Most UI-related threads posted suggestions, alternative ways of making it, detailed reasons why things weren't working properly or what was wrong etc. Yet we do not receive any information at all as to whether they're aware of the issues or working on the remaining issues.

    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    Join tholian red alert from the queue UI, close the window, get that message about "being in a queue," kicks me out of the queue, and puts me on a red 'username is on a queue cool-down' which luckily lasted only about 30 sec.

    I just can't even.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Oh folks, what went wrong in this thread? :(

    Think it’s what I tried to explain earlier. The new que UI is so terri-bad that it makes us jump at each other in game and around here.
    Ok Reddit has been established as Marmite you either love it or hate it.

    Lets try to get back on track and ask the impossible and that's fixing this UI before a million Players suddenly cry out in terror as their PC screen flickers and dies after suffering PvE UI rage

    I agree. Let’s leave discussions to why reddit is so awesome to reddit shall we. This is about the UI.
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    So after being highly frustrated by this irritating Ui replacement where I join a queue and have multiple matches cancelled due to Player Declines usually 3 times before it will finally let me into a map, it dawns on me that its not due to Player declines but the crappy UI removing Players from the selected queue

    example

    [1:15] [System] [MatchReady] Queue Group has been matched.

    [1:15] [System] Joined channel "Match".

    [1:15] [System] Left channel "Match".

    Inbetween Joined and Left channel the pop up box to accept or decline match appeared and I selected accept only to be removed from queue.

    I can see why some have given up on PvE when this terribly implemented system replaced the previous UI. It may look nicer but the coding and mechanics under the hood are mess.

    Rant over.

    I'd file a bug report if I knew it wasn't a waste of time

    Yea I certainly think there are some confirmed under the hood BUGS that need to be reworked. If you also Queue for a PvE mission that states there are 3 in the Queue currently; I find if I join Queue with another person in party / queue group you then see only 1 or 0 people often in Queue?

    The other thing that confuses me is in Neverwinter a party has a specific purpose as does a Queue Group both which you can join and do different things. A party is used soley for completing missions or shared missions together; whereas a Queue group is solely used for Dungeons or in our case PvE Queues.
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  • drazursouthclawdrazursouthclaw Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    The system completely and totally sucks.. and just like everything else the Cryptic staff has said nothing and given no indication that they're looking at it or that they even care. This Queue UI is a serious example of horrible design and implementation without any form of testing.

    The Cryptic way.

    Agreed. In my job if I gave this level of service to our customers, i'd be looking for other employment. It wouldn't be tolerated.

    (I'm not saying anyone on the Cryptic staff should be fired, however I am saying the quality of the product doesn't meet customer expectations and more due care needs to be taken)

    But ofc i'm in a different line of work where how I interact with customers directly affects the companies public image and customers buying from us again.

    Hey buddy, I wanted to pick apart your post. I am not attacking you or your ideas.

    "Agreed. In my job if I gave this level of service to our customers, i'd be looking for other employment. It wouldn't be tolerated."

    Yup. But nowhere in the entire gaming industry can hold itself to any realistic standard, apart from maybe indie devs.

    How would you go in your job if you took 3 weeks to reply to someone? Would that be acceptable in ANY line of work? Why are we pretending it's acceptable HERE? (not you and I, obviously, the community at large)

    "(I'm not saying anyone on the Cryptic staff should be fired, however I am saying the quality of the product doesn't meet customer expectations and more due care needs to be taken)"

    They don't need to be fired but they CLEARLY need to be trained. One idiot from 'support' even argued with me about whether or not Tholian ships are forced to have a USS registry. They said that they were forced, and then sent me a link to the STO wikipedia page that CLEARLY showed that I WAS CORRECT.

    How would you go with that in your job? Would you still keep your job if that was par for the course for you? If you told people they were wrong and sent them proof they were right? If you kept your job, would you expect ANYBODY to take you seriously after that?

    "But ofc i'm in a different line of work where how I interact with customers directly affects the companies public image and customers buying from us again."

    I stopped spending money in the Z-Store, and told them why. When it was fixed, I started spending money again.

    I am now having different issues in the game, and support is, as usual, less than useless there, so I am no longer spending money in the Z-Store. The issue in point, due to the nature of it, cannot be resolved.

    Therefore, their lack of appropriate support has resulted in them losing out on my money for the rest of my life.

    Whether they accept it or not, support is MORE important than the game itself. Because it isn't the issues with the game that's put Cryptic in the 'do not deserve my money' basket, it's their woefully inadequate so-called 'support'. If I cannot be helped at a basic level, then I refuse to have ANY kind of financial relationship with this company.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    So it appears 14th time is the charm for queueing for CCA this lunchtime. 9 times Accept window pops up then Player declines, on the 9th time it finally released me from the queue by kicking me, re-queued and on the 5th accept window it finally let me play CCA.

    How is this game supposed to survive if its end content is so frustrating to access ?

    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • slifox#0768 slifox Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    Someone mentioned in another thread about having a DPS cap. That would eliminate the advanced and elite queues. Thoughts on that?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    Someone mentioned in another thread about having a DPS cap. That would eliminate the advanced and elite queues. Thoughts on that?
    That doesn't sound practical to implant and even if it could be implanted would most likely cause more harm then good.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Someone mentioned in another thread about having a DPS cap. That would eliminate the advanced and elite queues. Thoughts on that?

    A cap would probably push even more people away as those at the top of their game would get bored with not being able to push the game as far as the can. And that loss of decent players would not help matches overall as often having at least one player who knows their stuff can help bring a team up to standard, not necessarily by carrying them, but by setting a good example.

    The problems with the PVE queues are a combination of reasons; lack of balanced reward:effort ratios, bugged missions, missions that are just plain dull/boring, players having done all reps so have no need of rewards, THE CONFOUNDED QUEUE UI, balance checks changing people's willingness to play, burnout due to too much grinding, over saturation of the queue list.....The list goes on.
    SulMatuul.png
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    How is this game supposed to survive if its end content is so frustrating to access ?

    In Crytpic's defense.. this bug only effects a very small number of players.

    Of course, that's because they have already driven off most of the games population.. but still.. it lowers the total number of players effected by the bad UI. :)

    Seriously though.. c'mon Cryptic.. with everything you have done to kill this game, the least you can do is fix this stupid UI for the few of us that remain. People are rapidly losing patience and giving up on trying.

    Insert witty signature line here.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    yeah, 'improved'...like how the flu is an 'improved' form of a cold​​
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    yeah, 'improved'...like how the flu is an 'improved' form of a cold​​

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    Yeah, a discussion was raised on this in another thread not too long ago.

    The conclusion most came to is that it's the result of the new feature that allows people to queue up for more then one queue at a time. What happens is you queue for say Borg Red Alert as well as Infected Conduit, you're just going to play the first one to pop. The Borg queue fills first and you hit accept. At this point, the system does not remove you from the ISA Queue, but you go off to defend the sector against the Borg. Now when the team queuing for ISA fills, the game sees that you're already on a mission and removes you from the ISA queue. When this happens, the system is not smart enough to replace you with the next player in queue, instead it cancels the entire team for 'declines' and re-forms the team completely.

    I have also had dozens of times where the box has popped up and I clicked 'Accept' and was immediately just removed from the queue for absolutely no reason at all.

    The system completely and totally sucks.. and just like everything else the Cryptic staff has said nothing and given no indication that they're looking at it or that they even care. This Queue UI is a serious example of horrible design and implementation without any form of testing.

    The Cryptic way.


    ^^ Very well said!
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    Now i don't want to argue about it too strongly because we are on the same boat here. But i firmly believe that that's the way to go and that the community can do much more in that regard. It worked on much bigger fries than Cryptic in less time and i believe once the community gets over feeling like we owe Cryptic something for talking to us (looking at you reddit), we can achieve something. Perhaps not what we want, but surely we can at least put an end to the "stonewalling" that is happening now!


    We can achieve nothing. Boycotts don't work. Occasionally a Cryptic Dev will come out and say they're not lazy, but they are: actions (or non-actions, as the case may be) speak louder than words.

    Especially the unqueueing is an egregious faux-pas. Never ever unque me; like I mean, ever. If I'm already waiting 15 minutes, last thing I want to is to check the chat screen, and see Cryptic has already unqueue-ed me altogether.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    I'm not the type to agree often with the majority, but this time I do. The new UI is a piece of crrap in every sense of the word.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Now i don't want to argue about it too strongly because we are on the same boat here. But i firmly believe that that's the way to go and that the community can do much more in that regard. It worked on much bigger fries than Cryptic in less time and i believe once the community gets over feeling like we owe Cryptic something for talking to us (looking at you reddit), we can achieve something. Perhaps not what we want, but surely we can at least put an end to the "stonewalling" that is happening now!


    We can achieve nothing. Boycotts don't work. Occasionally a Cryptic Dev will come out and say they're not lazy, but they are: actions (or non-actions, as the case may be) speak louder than words.

    Especially the unqueueing is an egregious faux-pas. Never ever unque me; like I mean, ever. If I'm already waiting 15 minutes, last thing I want to is to check the chat screen, and see Cryptic has already unqueue-ed me altogether.
    This... Remember how tacofangs got his knickers in a twist when I said that the dev team were incompetent? The rollout of Beyond the Nexus (and all this UI malarky) hasn't done anything to disprove that belief ;)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    a
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Now i don't want to argue about it too strongly because we are on the same boat here. But i firmly believe that that's the way to go and that the community can do much more in that regard. It worked on much bigger fries than Cryptic in less time and i believe once the community gets over feeling like we owe Cryptic something for talking to us (looking at you reddit), we can achieve something. Perhaps not what we want, but surely we can at least put an end to the "stonewalling" that is happening now!


    We can achieve nothing. Boycotts don't work. Occasionally a Cryptic Dev will come out and say they're not lazy, but they are: actions (or non-actions, as the case may be) speak louder than words.

    Especially the unqueueing is an egregious faux-pas. Never ever unque me; like I mean, ever. If I'm already waiting 15 minutes, last thing I want to is to check the chat screen, and see Cryptic has already unqueue-ed me altogether.
    Wouldn't the lazy thing to do have been to leave the old queue system in and not do anything? Since it was working perfectly.

    I never did get why they even wanted to change it at all. They could've just added the extra list filters on the old UI, kept the underlying system that worked and nobody would've complained.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    a
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Now i don't want to argue about it too strongly because we are on the same boat here. But i firmly believe that that's the way to go and that the community can do much more in that regard. It worked on much bigger fries than Cryptic in less time and i believe once the community gets over feeling like we owe Cryptic something for talking to us (looking at you reddit), we can achieve something. Perhaps not what we want, but surely we can at least put an end to the "stonewalling" that is happening now!


    We can achieve nothing. Boycotts don't work. Occasionally a Cryptic Dev will come out and say they're not lazy, but they are: actions (or non-actions, as the case may be) speak louder than words.

    Especially the unqueueing is an egregious faux-pas. Never ever unque me; like I mean, ever. If I'm already waiting 15 minutes, last thing I want to is to check the chat screen, and see Cryptic has already unqueue-ed me altogether.
    Wouldn't the lazy thing to do have been to leave the old queue system in and not do anything? Since it was working perfectly.

    I never did get why they even wanted to change it at all. They could've just added the extra list filters on the old UI, kept the underlying system that worked and nobody would've complained.
    Because as employees, they need to justify their continued employment by actually working on notable projects ;) Tweaking and refining existing stuff (while massively essential and important) isn't as notable to an employer, as being seen to be working on a Major Project such as a complete revamp. IMO, it's change for the sake of change for the sake of appearing busy and relevant, combined with the double-down stubbornness of being incapable of accepting that the 'new and improved version' actually isn't an improvement, and putting things back the way things were before, would be the thing to do. It's Grand Gestures, over Everyday Romance.

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I think it's quite obvious why the UI was changed; it was done to create a "one UI to rule them all" situation with the consoles.
    Clearly they want both systems to work the same so trying to shoehorn some console port UI into the PC version means they don't need to maintain two versions. Trouble is what works for consoles doesn't always works for pc's as the users and interfaces and expectations are quite distinct.

    But do they care? NO. All they are interested in is shoving on things to make life easy for them and so they don't have to pander to the PC crowd anymore. Same happens to all games that port over to consoles, the "easy mode " console stuff starts to take over and we get a dumbed down game in the long run.

    Sadly that is what I see going on with sto these days.
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