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A Proposal For An Addition To The Tutorial

So I had an idea for an addition to the Fed tutorial, to cover something which is missed, and, could have an improving effect for gameplay further down the storyline:

When taking the shuttle from the Academy up to The Ship, this happens:

The Ship is still only partially constructed.

The Player is told that The Ship is undergoing a refit (which explains why a 23rd Century hull is still being used) and The player is assigned the task of taking part in the final construction.

This would involve: Being given a basic suit for the EVA, having to do a little hulł-walking and manipulating dock controls, to bring the nacelles into position (like realigning the Helix arms) Then a little spacejump down onto the nacelle (like in Boldly They Rode) to do some welds on the pylons (like severing the cables on Nimbus) then back to the airlock.

Benefits to this extra training scenario:
The Player gets a basic suit, and learns how to fly it, which is useful for dilithium mining, and saves the need for all that constant 'Kurland here!' BS, which is massively obtrusive in Boldly They Rode, because The Player would already know how to use navigation points ;)

The Player gets to 'take ownership' of the ship, in the same way they take creative control of their toon. There could even be a dialogue along the lines of "We're leaving spacedock without a tractor beam??" "That will be installed Tuesday..." ;)

#JustAThought
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron

"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
«13

Comments

  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    So many +1's :smile:
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    It might serve to give ships a little more sense of scale and heft. To make taking command of one just a bit more awe-inspiring.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    So many +1's :smile:
    Thanks :sunglasses:
    nikeix wrote: »
    It might serve to give ships a little more sense of scale and heft. To make taking command of one just a bit more awe-inspiring.
    And yes, that was what I was getting it. It makes taking command actually mean something, because it would be something someone has made a personal contribution to :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't see this lending anything to the tutorial, nor do I believe it makes much sense to have your character performing these tasks within the existing story structure. Using an EVA suit is not difficult at all really and IMO it's more appropriate to introduce that in the DS9 story arc where it makes sense to be hull walking.
    Did I say that using an EVA suit was difficult?

    Firing a phaser at a Klingon is not difficult at all, but the tutorial includes an exercise involving just that.

    It makes sense for an officer to be trained in skills at the academy, and on their training cruise, does it not? It's 'appropriate' that when hitting Boldly They Rode, someone know how to use the suit, without the need to 'learn on the job', with Kurland's 'help'. As a mission, it's a fun one, but IMO, his contacts are intrusive, and if the non-essential ones were to be removed, the mission would flow way more smoothly ;)
    Story-wise, you're also not taking ownership of the ship either.
    See those ''s around the words?

    I wasn't meaning literal ownership, but referring to the notion of a player taking an emotional grasp (if you don't like the word ownership) of their in-game interaction avatars. People can spend significant time crafting their toon (getting into character, perhaps) but there's no equivalent given to the ship, and a scenario like this, would give a better grasp of some of the in-game interactions which occur. For example, I'd never mined dilithium prior to doing that mission with Kuumaarke, which involves taking a core sample from the comet. So for a moment, when the drilling interaction came up, I was distracted from the game, by working out what I actually had to do. Covering stuff like that, I believe, is the very point of a tutorial :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    There are any number of tasks/skills like mining, piloting shuttles, repelling, mini-games/puzzles and the like that aren't covered in the tutorial and IMO aren't needed to be included at that time. As far as having an attachment to your starter ship or gaining a sense of scale, you're in the tutorial ship for such a short period of time it's not worth the added time to the mission IMO. Your character will command many ships throughout their in-game career (most of which will probably be far larger than the Miranda) and you never get a sense of their true scale either, even if they happen to be the ships shown inside ESD.
    Thanks for your opinion :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).

    Exactly what I do. Depending on my specialty I'll either take the Oberth or the NX-1 or the Enterprise.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).
    So if you were playing the tutorial for the first time as a completely new player, you wouldn't find it educational? :confused: Because that's what I thought tutorials are supposed to be :tongue:

    Also, not every new player is willing to put down hard cssh Right Away until they get a feel for it ;)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).

    Exactly what I do. Depending on my specialty I'll either take the Oberth or the NX-1 or the Enterprise.

    Yep, or the TOS connie for me.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).

    Exactly what I do. Depending on my specialty I'll either take the Oberth or the NX-1 or the Enterprise.

    so at least some players change the shape and skin of the starter ship.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't see this lending anything to the tutorial, nor do I believe it makes much sense to have your character performing these tasks within the existing story structure. Using an EVA suit is not difficult at all really and IMO it's more appropriate to introduce that in the DS9 story arc where it makes sense to be hull walking. Story-wise, you're also not taking ownership of the ship either.

    i was just thinking to Enteprise and TMP, dock yards have their own crew members to construct the ships and refit them.
    So I had an idea for an addition to the Fed tutorial, to cover something which is missed, and, could have an improving effect for gameplay further down the storyline:

    When taking the shuttle from the Academy up to The Ship, this happens:

    The Ship is still only partially constructed.

    The Player is told that The Ship is undergoing a refit (which explains why a 23rd Century hull is still being used) and The player is assigned the task of taking part in the final construction.

    This would involve: Being given a basic suit for the EVA, having to do a little hulł-walking and manipulating dock controls, to bring the nacelles into position (like realigning the Helix arms) Then a little spacejump down onto the nacelle (like in Boldly They Rode) to do some welds on the pylons (like severing the cables on Nimbus) then back to the airlock.

    Benefits to this extra training scenario:
    The Player gets a basic suit, and learns how to fly it, which is useful for dilithium mining, and saves the need for all that constant 'Kurland here!' BS, which is massively obtrusive in Boldly They Rode, because The Player would already know how to use navigation points ;)

    The Player gets to 'take ownership' of the ship, in the same way they take creative control of their toon. There could even be a dialogue along the lines of "We're leaving spacedock without a tractor beam??" "That will be installed Tuesday..." ;)

    #JustAThought

    i'm not saying no to your idea but could you give some storyline reason for why you as the acting first officer, a cadet could be given the job of walking across the hull instead of workcrews? also what reason Captain Taggert would have to let you do that by yourself?

    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't see this lending anything to the tutorial, nor do I believe it makes much sense to have your character performing these tasks within the existing story structure. Using an EVA suit is not difficult at all really and IMO it's more appropriate to introduce that in the DS9 story arc where it makes sense to be hull walking. Story-wise, you're also not taking ownership of the ship either.

    i was just thinking to Enteprise and TMP, dock yards have their own crew members to construct the ships and refit them.
    So I had an idea for an addition to the Fed tutorial, to cover something which is missed, and, could have an improving effect for gameplay further down the storyline:

    When taking the shuttle from the Academy up to The Ship, this happens:

    The Ship is still only partially constructed.

    The Player is told that The Ship is undergoing a refit (which explains why a 23rd Century hull is still being used) and The player is assigned the task of taking part in the final construction.

    This would involve: Being given a basic suit for the EVA, having to do a little hulł-walking and manipulating dock controls, to bring the nacelles into position (like realigning the Helix arms) Then a little spacejump down onto the nacelle (like in Boldly They Rode) to do some welds on the pylons (like severing the cables on Nimbus) then back to the airlock.

    Benefits to this extra training scenario:
    The Player gets a basic suit, and learns how to fly it, which is useful for dilithium mining, and saves the need for all that constant 'Kurland here!' BS, which is massively obtrusive in Boldly They Rode, because The Player would already know how to use navigation points ;)

    The Player gets to 'take ownership' of the ship, in the same way they take creative control of their toon. There could even be a dialogue along the lines of "We're leaving spacedock without a tractor beam??" "That will be installed Tuesday..." ;)

    #JustAThought

    i'm not saying no to your idea but could you give some storyline reason for why you as the acting first officer, a cadet could be given the job of walking across the hull instead of workcrews? also what reason Captain Taggert would have to let you do that by yourself?
    Supervisory experience, for one, and plain 'lending a hand' for another ;)

    Perhaps prior to being given the order to suit up on the bridge, it comes over the intercom that one of the work crew has had a reaction to that Bolian souffle they had for lunch, and so Captain Taggart makes the assignment as it's another pair of hands for the job.

    The Origin bridge does have two turbolifts, so maybe have the fore turbolift re-dressed into an airlock for suiting up :sunglasses:

    The game puts some interesting demands on our hapless cadet, which Only They can solve (or even with the assistance of all those other graduating cadets as a temporary 4 person away team) so why not have them tackle something like this as well? As you point out, The Player is the acting first officer, they have to fulfill all aspects of that role, not just sitting to the captain's right, in the 'break glass in an emergency' seat ;)

    Another idea, would be to have three variants of the spacewalk depending on a player's career path: Engineer has to attach a nacelle, science has to install some sensor array, or the deflector pod, and tactical has to install a phaser emitter or the torpedo launcher assembly :sunglasses:

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @silverlobes#2676 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).
    >
    >
    >
    > So if you were playing the tutorial for the first time as a completely new player, you wouldn't find it educational? :confused: Because that's what I thought tutorials are supposed to be :tongue:
    >
    > Also, not every new player is willing to put down hard cssh Right Away until they get a feel for it ;)

    Back when I first started playing STO the very first thing I did was buy the T1 Connie, before I even started the turorial. I really doubt that such a sequence would be helpful even for brand new players.
    Okay, two points, and one of them has to touch back on an observation I've directed to you before:

    -Not everyone else does things like you do. You can't assume that just because you were happy to splash the cash so soon, that every other player potentially will be as well ;)

    -Okay, let's have a conversation :sunglasses: How do you back up that assertion? Why do you think a completely new player, would not find it useful, to be specifically taught (while the character is still 'in learning mode' as a cadet) skills which they will need at a further point in the game?
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    i wouldn't trust it to a bunch of poorly-educated slaves either, but there you go​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    Exactly what I do. Depending on my specialty I'll either take the Oberth or the NX-1 or the Enterprise.

    And even if you don't have any of the C-Store ships, you're in your starter Miranda for such a short time, the average player is going to be excited to try a newer ship anyway once they finish the tutorial and first 1 or 2 missions.
    Supervisory experience, for one, and plain 'lending a hand' for another

    To be honest, I don't know that shipbuilding is something I would be trusting on a whim to a recent Academy graduate with no shipbuilding experience.
    Given the entire premise by which The Player takes command, that 'argument' is utterly invalidated by the game itself :D

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @silverlobes#2676 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @silverlobes#2676 said:
    > > azrael605 wrote: »
    > >
    > > It also wouldn't help for players like me who own all the T1 ships & change out of the starter ship at the earliest possible opportunity (which is the moment you hit sector space, claim the ship from c-store, and switch).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > So if you were playing the tutorial for the first time as a completely new player, you wouldn't find it educational? :confused: Because that's what I thought tutorials are supposed to be :tongue:
    > >
    > > Also, not every new player is willing to put down hard cssh Right Away until they get a feel for it ;)
    >
    > Back when I first started playing STO the very first thing I did was buy the T1 Connie, before I even started the turorial. I really doubt that such a sequence would be helpful even for brand new players.
    >
    >
    >
    > Okay, two points, and one of them has to touch back on an observation I've directed to you before:
    >
    > -Not everyone else does things like you do. You can't assume that just because you were happy to splash the cash so soon, that every other player potentially will be as well ;)
    >
    > -Okay, let's have a conversation :sunglasses: How do you back up that assertion? Why do you think a completely new player, would not find it useful, to be specifically taught (while the character is still 'in learning mode' as a cadet) skills which they will need at a further point in the game?

    No not every player does things my way, but I know more players who did buy the T1 connie when starting out than players who bought nothing. I mean that ship is 5 dollars so it isn't "splashing the cash" it costs less than a cup of Starbucks or a burger & fries at McDonald's. Its the classic Trek ship. But I have no issues accepting that some players won't be buying it. Those players will leave the starter ship behind in a matter of hours (seriously tutorial to level 10 takes me 2 hours), so no real point in forming any emotional attachment to it IMO.

    On the second point, its just not worth bothering with something at level 0 that you won't run into again until level 50+ (I haven't had a character since DR that didn't hit level 50 before the Cardassian Arc).
    You're still basing your argument on your own personal experiences though, and trying to leverage that as the only correct perspective. You're also completely missing the point behind my suggestion as a means of getting The Player into the game, and learning in-game mechanics, which again, is the very point behind a tutorial ;) And again, suit control is useful when grinding the purple rock. And again, it would enable the cutting of Some of Kurland's unnecessary interruptions to that level.

    But I get that you don't get it. Thanks for your thoughts :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    I think there is a difference between being able to take command of a ship (something your character just spent the last few years learning to do) and tossing on an EV suit to weld some nacelles on to "lend a hand".

    Something like getting involved with the design/construction of your ship makes more sense when you are able to use T6 ships IMO. You're going to spend most of your playtime in them as opposed to your starter ship.
    The entire game is built on the premises of someone being pushed into positions either beyond the usual scope, and The Player being The One who has to sort out all these catastrophes. And you seriously felt the need to disagree with a proposal which would increase a player's skills with in-game mechanics (while in the tutorial) because you find it implausible that an experienced nobody would be assigned duties? :D:D
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    and anyone who disagrees with a proposal to reduce the number of KURLAND HERE! needs to be taken out and shot​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    and anyone who disagrees with a proposal to reduce the number of KURLAND HERE! needs to be taken out and shot​​

    This... :D:D

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    As mentioned before, the tutorial is missing any number of in-game things that appear in later missions that do not need to be covered in the tutorial. The game does a decent enough job of explaining how to use stuff like grapple guns and EV way points in the missions where they are introduced. The tutorial doesn't need to cover every single thing IMO, and it would be cumbersome to even try to include everything in the tutorial as the Devs introduce newer actions/activities. They would have to go back and edit the tutorial each time they wanted to add something new.
    And as I mentioned before, I disagree. So let's just leave it at that :sunglasses:

    Now, if you'd care to report outside for projectile reception duty, someone will tell you where to stand, and what'll be happening. Don't worry, no tutorial needed ;)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • arionisaarionisa Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    and anyone who disagrees with a proposal to reduce the number of KURLAND HERE! needs to be taken out and shot​​

    But only after 48 hours of Kurland blasting into their headphones at max volume.

    LTS and loving it.
    Ariotex.png
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    arionisa wrote: »
    and anyone who disagrees with a proposal to reduce the number of KURLAND HERE! needs to be taken out and shot​​

    But only after 48 hours of Kurland blasting into their headphones at max volume.
    :D:D
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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