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Risa at Night or Casperia Prime?

I was pretty bummed when I learned that the new lighting engine doesn't allow for an active day and night cycle anymore, such as the one on Risa and Bajor. Personally I preferred Risa at night and I would love to see it return someday. If they make a perpetual night on Risa, they should take advantage of the darkness and create some bioluminescent plants, wildlife or even water. I just think it would be really cool to play around with the new lighting engine and create a really beautiful night location on the planet. They could even build a whole new island from the ground up to take advantage of the night. There is only so much they can add to one island location so it would be neat if they created more locations to beam down to for different types of activities.

If they don't want to keep adding to Risa however, then perhaps we could visit a location like Casperia Prime? It was never actually shown on Star Trek, outside of an image of the planet on Dax's guide book. This would let Cryptic have some fun in designing a whole new location we've never seen before. I suppose they could do the same thing with Risa, for the most part, but the Risians are canon so they had something specific they had to work with. We have no idea who the people of Casperia Prime are or what they look like so they would have to use their imagination and make a world that's equally as beautiful as Risa, but also different. I think it would be neat to see what they come up with.

They could even use Casperia Prime as the location for a night map. Since the planet has rings, it would probably look really amazing seeing them illuminated at night as you walk across water that glows with each step. Then perhaps they could alternate between Risa and Casperia Prime every year so that the summer event isn't always the same, or have both planets active at the same time? Unless that would be too much trouble. Either way I think they should make some kind of nighttime map for those who enjoy the nightlife.

Comments

  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    While the stirred up image is lovely. Why would/should Cryptic make a whole other world? It has to either fit an upcoming plot, or feed a monetary need that is not yet met. Just being night time won't do it, in my opinion.

    Now if I were to make a suggestion on a use. Have it be able to do local only Retro missions/events. The marks earned from this may buy for one toon one of the past event ships. Like the Infinity box does now. So the oldest items in the boxes can be sifted out and newer content slipped in.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    Not sure about night and day lighting, but Cryptic should start "fleshing out" the current STO universe. Andoria, Orion, Feringinar, Vulcan and other major races should have planets that you can beam down to.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 2,760 Arc User
    edited August 11
    goodscotch wrote: »
    Not sure about night and day lighting, but Cryptic should start "fleshing out" the current STO universe. Andoria, Orion, Feringinar, Vulcan and other major races should have planets that you can beam down to.
    -Andoria and Vulcan can be beamed down too. Have been since the game launched.

    -As part of the Path to 2409, the Orions abandoned their homeworld of Orion because they destroyed it ecologically, and moved to a new planet somewhere deep inside the Klingon Empire. There is nothing on Orion on this point but ruins.

    -I suspect Feringinar might be used in a mission, as part of the next expansion, at least.

    -Cryptic can't justify spending the rather large sum of money to make a wholly new texture type/environment for all these worlds unless there is a logical use for them in the story, and after the near total non-use of social zones outside of ESD, First City, and DS9, there is little reason for them to spend money making more.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    -Cryptic can't justify spending the rather large sum of money to make a wholly new texture type/environment for all these worlds unless there is a logical use for them in the story, and after the near total non-use of social zones outside of ESD, First City, and DS9, there is little reason for them to spend money making more.

    I agree with you. But, Risa is packed when summer event starts. And Memory Alpha always had a crowd when crafting required going somewhere to be used. So the big thing is stop turning STO into an idle game and let it have purpose use places again.
    I actually liked you had to go to DS9 to start the Borg rep. And each time you were ready to get a piece of gear. It was always hoping because of it. It turned practically into a ghost town once they took that away.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 2,760 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    I agree with you. But, Risa is packed when summer event starts. And Memory Alpha always had a crowd when crafting required going somewhere to be used. So the big thing is stop turning STO into an idle game and let it have purpose use places again.
    I actually liked you had to go to DS9 to start the Borg rep. And each time you were ready to get a piece of gear. It was always hoping because of it. It turned practically into a ghost town once they took that away.
    Rise is packed because of the event, an event that really only makes sense for it. There really isn't too many events one can make up for the various worlds that would draw in the number of people needed to justify making yet another social zone.

    As for Memory Alpha, and DS9, them being packed was only due to the very poor gameplay design of the pre-revamp STO. One should not have to trod all the way back to DS9 to pick up some rep gear.

    DS9 has started seeing a bit more use ever since they expanded the Alpha Quadrant map, and started making most of the game content take place over there, which is how it should be. DS9 will likely get a lot more traffic once the next expansion hits, as it will likely be the hub for any venture into the Gamma quadrant.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 927 Arc User
    Most MMORPG have vendors for raid/reputation gear at fixed locations as well as crafting/skilling locations and quite frankly its a good design because it adds function and purpose to the game world and NPC's.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    As for Memory Alpha, and DS9, them being packed was only due to the very poor gameplay design of the pre-revamp STO. One should not have to trod all the way back to DS9 to pick up some rep gear.

    DS9 has started seeing a bit more use ever since they expanded the Alpha Quadrant map, and started making most of the game content take place over there, which is how it should be. DS9 will likely get a lot more traffic once the next expansion hits, as it will likely be the hub for any venture into the Gamma quadrant.

    Now I think it is a matter of what are they designing? R&D is login setup your research or builds then logout again. Reps? If you got the points already then same thing. No being in the game and doing something. Hence my comparing it to an idle game versus an mmorpg. Other games you go where the crafting or rep is and work on it. Thus it is social.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 2,760 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    Now I think it is a matter of what are they designing? R&D is login setup your research or builds then logout again. Reps? If you got the points already then same thing. No being in the game and doing something. Hence my comparing it to an idle game versus an mmorpg. Other games you go where the crafting or rep is and work on it. Thus it is social.
    And those kind of features are always the most complained about because 99% of people don't want to have to backpedal to locations X, Y, and Z, to get things done that could easily be done in a menu like STO does.

    You are basically forcing people to be social while doing things that don't require it, and that is bad game design.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    Now I think it is a matter of what are they designing? R&D is login setup your research or builds then logout again. Reps? If you got the points already then same thing. No being in the game and doing something. Hence my comparing it to an idle game versus an mmorpg. Other games you go where the crafting or rep is and work on it. Thus it is social.
    And those kind of features are always the most complained about because 99% of people don't want to have to backpedal to locations X, Y, and Z, to get things done that could easily be done in a menu like STO does.

    You are basically forcing people to be social while doing things that don't require it, and that is bad game design.

    You are right. That is why WoW died so fast and they never made any money.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • steaensteaen Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    They could always give Andoria some kind of purpose by moving the Winter Event, or at the very least the gateway to access it, there if they did happen to be looking for a way to use some of the currently fairly pointless social zones we do have available.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 5,136 Arc User
    edited August 12
    feiqa wrote: »

    You are right. That is why WoW died so fast and they never made any money.

    "Hey, WoW did it" is not sufficient justification for increasing mechanical inefficiency in STO. Any attempt to make social zones more social should take advantage of this game's mechanics and player base tendencies, not another title's (because that's ripe for wasted effort.) For example: add small activities (ie. gameplay) like those on seasonal event maps, social zones, and fleet holdings.
    Bipedal mammal, Foundry author, and newbie co-host of the Foundry Roundtable.
    mvXYOnt.png

    New mission: Faded Horizon [SSF3-1]
    For mission updates and screenshots: @Gorgonops_SSF
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »

    You are right. That is why WoW died so fast and they never made any money.

    "Hey, WoW did it" is not sufficient justification for increasing mechanical inefficiency in STO. Any attempt to make social zones more social should take advantage of this game's mechanics and player base tendencies, not another title's (because that's ripe for wasted effort.) For example: add small activities (ie. gameplay) like those on seasonal event maps, social zones, and fleet holdings.

    Actually it makes my counter point perfectly. Note that it is suggested that most of the player base will not stand for such 'inefficiency'. And it is bad game design. Okay so here is an example of the opposite of what was said.
    But that does not count because it is someone else.
    It feels like a few more iterations of 'efficiency' and you can play STO on your phone while waiting for a light to change.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 2,760 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    You are right. That is why WoW died so fast and they never made any money.
    WoW's success had nothing to do with anything you suggested.

    WoW was successful because it was the first MMO in the modern era(Everquest being the middle-early era) that already had a huge following from the Warcraft RTS games, which allowed it to quickly pin the market.


  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 5,136 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »

    Actually it makes my counter point perfectly. Note that it is suggested that most of the player base will not stand for such 'inefficiency'. And it is bad game design. Okay so here is an example of the opposite of what was said.
    But that does not count because it is someone else.
    It feels like a few more iterations of 'efficiency' and you can play STO on your phone while waiting for a light to change.

    Perfectly? I don't think that's supported. What you've provided in WoW is a game that 1. is popular and 2. has a given gameplay feature. Connecting the two is a distinct logical fallacy. WoW's fixed-point crafting service does not stand as a counter point to current STO because the association alone between 1 and 2 does not even reduce the possibility that WoW succeeds in spite of it's chosen crafting setup (due to a host of other social and gameplay factors which outweigh the impact of one bad system). These two points simply exist, they don't necessarily share a positive functional relationship (filling in the gap with such is pure presumption, that's why "it doesn't count.")

    Therefore, the following point stands: breaking up interactive missions and combat with service-grinding hub-trips is still something to be optimized (keep it to the most impactful things, like customization and requisitions), not maximized through all possible systems (ex. crafting). It is better for STO to de-emphasize service grinding (at least to some extent) in favor of what else the game does. Hence, current R&D. WoW's overall success doesn't matter, it's the specific functional relationships of any system that count most towards STO's possible futures.

    So, to make your point that memory alpha was a better crafting setup your posts need to address the specific function of R+D in STO and its interaction with other elements of the game. Support-by-proxy (as well as hyperbole, to address the phone comment) does not advance discussion, it's merely supposition. Think about how the system works, what we get out of putting more effort into these services (is it as rewarding as what else we could be doing?), and how this may be preferable to emphasizing other elements of the game (ex. action gameplay.) Take the integrative view (as in paragraph two) as that can lead to a more productive discussion (where we can at least see each other's arguments, even if mutual consensus isn't possible.)
    Bipedal mammal, Foundry author, and newbie co-host of the Foundry Roundtable.
    mvXYOnt.png

    New mission: Faded Horizon [SSF3-1]
    For mission updates and screenshots: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The new Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 1,195 Arc User
    edited August 12
    Vulcan:
    Visit the cave where Archer received the kotra of Sarek. Of course, to comply with ecological and environmental regulations, the use of transporters and shuttlecraft is forbidden in The Forge. Fortunately, a Ferengi presented a logical reason to acquire an exclusive contract to supply pilgrims. Bring latinum; credit is hard to recover from dead people.

    Andoria:
    Come to watch the non-lethal gladiarorial games in The Imperial Arena. Stay for the Andorian ale. Drink enough and you might find you've challenged someone to ushann. (I wonder if they can program a tether between two combatants, and if so, could they make a tractor beam drag something...)

    Tellar Prime:
    What more would a visitor want to see but the public mud baths? Wallow to your heart's content before your evening at the Forum to listen to the daily argument, and learn the latest in personal insults. And a romantic midnight stroll through an old, worked out mine filled with tasty crustaceans. Eat them before they eat you! Oh, I guess you can cook them.

    Ferenginaar:
    In the long Bazaar leading to the Tower Of Commerce you can find someone who buys and sells everything. And if you bribe the right people you can get an audience with the Grand Negus himself. Enjoy every kind of rain as you explore the suburban jungle or wager your hard won latinum on the market. Of course, you need a reliable broker to manage your finances. But, hey, you're surrounded by the financial geniuses of the known universe.
    Post edited by brian334 on
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »

    Actually it makes my counter point perfectly. Note that it is suggested that most of the player base will not stand for such 'inefficiency'. And it is bad game design. Okay so here is an example of the opposite of what was said.
    But that does not count because it is someone else.
    It feels like a few more iterations of 'efficiency' and you can play STO on your phone while waiting for a light to change.

    Perfectly? I don't think that's supported. What you've provided in WoW is a game that 1. is popular and 2. has a given gameplay feature. Connecting the two is a distinct logical fallacy. WoW's fixed-point crafting service does not stand as a counter point to current STO because the association alone between 1 and 2 does not even reduce the possibility that WoW succeeds in spite of it's chosen crafting setup (due to a host of other social and gameplay factors which outweigh the impact of one bad system). These two points simply exist, they don't necessarily share a positive functional relationship (filling in the gap with such is pure presumption, that's why "it doesn't count.")

    Therefore, the following point stands: breaking up interactive missions and combat with service-grinding hub-trips is still something to be optimized (keep it to the most impactful things, like customization and requisitions), not maximized through all possible systems (ex. crafting). It is better for STO to de-emphasize service grinding (at least to some extent) in favor of what else the game does. Hence, current R&D. WoW's overall success doesn't matter, it's the specific functional relationships of any system that count most towards STO's possible futures.

    So, to make your point that memory alpha was a better crafting setup your posts need to address the specific function of R+D in STO and its interaction with other elements of the game. Support-by-proxy (as well as hyperbole, to address the phone comment) does not advance discussion, it's merely supposition. Think about how the system works, what we get out of putting more effort into these services (is it as rewarding as what else we could be doing?), and how this may be preferable to emphasizing other elements of the game (ex. action gameplay.) Take the integrative view (as in paragraph two) as that can lead to a more productive discussion (where we can at least see each other's arguments, even if mutual consensus isn't possible.)

    So the parts that say 99% of players are vocally against this. Is not hyperbole? Claiming it is game breaking when other seem to survive and even thrive while doing this is not an indication that the argument is flawed.
    I am for making more in the game. More places to go with more things to do.
    But the counter is 'we should not force social areas in an mmo'.
    That devolves the argument down to the point that those I am debating with wish to see less going places and interacting. And more drop down text menus. So no I don't think my phone app comment is misplaced.

    I am suggesting we do more and stop cutting things in the name of 'efficiency'. Which to me sounds like can't be bothered to play.
    I have another analogy to explain my position on using another game as an example. The place I work none of use working for the company understands how the owner stays in business as every call seems counter to logic and reason. But, he has remained in business for going on forty years now. While many of his competitors are gone. So he must be doing something right. Even if we can't see it ourselves.
    In that context you hold up these two similar objects and compare them to see what is working and does not need to be changed. And what has not. And may need change.
    99% hate having to be social when going off to crafting. Yet elsewhere we see no sign of griping on the matter. What are they doing that makes it not 99%?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    Pardon breaking off on an argument in this thread, It is off topic.

    As stated before, what needs to be done is find a purpose for a whole new map to be generated for everyone to go to. A special series of only there make up events. Or similar.
    Maybe have it be the Halloween event where a ferengi has taken all the spooky tales from a few cultures and species and created a theme park. That way you have something between Risa/summer and Q's land/Winter event for drama level. I am speaking of magic versus party atmosphere not dates though that would happen as well.
    And they could sell masks and similar there like is done at the other locations.
    What other thoughts on why to make a night map social zone?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 5,136 Arc User
    edited August 13
    feiqa wrote: »
    So the parts that say 99% of players are vocally against this. Is not hyperbole? Claiming it is game breaking when other seem to survive and even thrive while doing this is not an indication that the argument is flawed.
    I think this is a simple exaggeration on this discussion.

    1. The question is whether or not crafting at social zones is a positive or negative thing, not whether or not it's game breaking. (that's a false totality)

    2. Games can survive and even thrive with poor features if the overall experience is still positive. WoW's success does not automatically justify any particular system in that game (without a compelling argument about how that system works in practice.) You need that argument to make a good case for STO implementation. Presumptions are liable to admit poor or simply inappropriate features to this particular game simply because they aren't looking at how things work in practice. They just take it for granted that WoW=good, providing no critical selection criteria.

    [The rest I cut off, the above is all that really needs to be said on the matter. "WoW did it" is simply not a good argument by any analogy.]
    As stated before, what needs to be done is find a purpose for a whole new map to be generated for everyone to go to. A special series of only there make up events. Or similar.
    Maybe have it be the Halloween event where a ferengi has taken all the spooky tales from a few cultures and species and created a theme park. That way you have something between Risa/summer and Q's land/Winter event for drama level. I am speaking of magic versus party atmosphere not dates though that would happen as well.
    And they could sell masks and similar there like is done at the other locations.
    What other thoughts on why to make a night map social zone

    And now we can move onto something more fun (I don't think we'll agree on WoW or STO crafting but new proposals I think we can do a lot more with.) :)

    I'd really like to see that Halloween event. We have the Anniversary and First Contact Day in spring (US) but no comparable annual events for the fall season. A night map would also fit very well. I don't think we could reasonably ask for something at the same scale as the winter or summer events but a small map with a few theme goodies (like First Contact Day if we got the commemoration site as a social space rather than as a competitive PVE map) I think is worth asking for. Bringing in the Ferengi as curators could be a lot of fun too, though making it a holodeck might be more fitting to the Ferengi than outright Q-style magic (if that's what you were referring to by "magic versus party atmosphere.")

    I'd also suggest full costumes or holo-emitters for themed prizes (some or all of which could be transferred later to the GPL store for a high price that still favors event participation.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal, Foundry author, and newbie co-host of the Foundry Roundtable.
    mvXYOnt.png

    New mission: Faded Horizon [SSF3-1]
    For mission updates and screenshots: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The new Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,616 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    Not sure about night and day lighting, but Cryptic should start "fleshing out" the current STO universe. Andoria, Orion, Feringinar, Vulcan and other major races should have planets that you can beam down to.
    -Andoria and Vulcan can be beamed down too. Have been since the game launched.

    -As part of the Path to 2409, the Orions abandoned their homeworld of Orion because they destroyed it ecologically, and moved to a new planet somewhere deep inside the Klingon Empire. There is nothing on Orion on this point but ruins.

    -I suspect Feringinar might be used in a mission, as part of the next expansion, at least.

    -Cryptic can't justify spending the rather large sum of money to make a wholly new texture type/environment for all these worlds unless there is a logical use for them in the story, and after the near total non-use of social zones outside of ESD, First City, and DS9, there is little reason for them to spend money making more.

    True but the areas have very little going for them outside of the omega event and the story line progression missions. I wish you could challenge an andorian to a duel kind like it says you can at least with the dialogue with the npc's.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    And now we can move onto something more fun (I don't think we'll agree on WoW or STO crafting but new proposals I think we can do a lot more with.) :)

    I'd really like to see that Halloween event. We have the Anniversary and First Contact Day in spring (US) but no comparable annual events for the fall season. A night map would also fit very well. I don't think we could reasonably ask for something at the same scale as the winter or summer events but a small map with a few theme goodies (like First Contact Day if we got the commemoration site as a social space rather than as a competitive PVE map) I think is worth asking for. Bringing in the Ferengi as curators could be a lot of fun too, though making it a holodeck might be more fitting to the Ferengi than outright Q-style magic (if that's what you were referring to by "magic versus party atmosphere.")

    I'd also suggest full costumes or holo-emitters for themed prizes (some or all of which could be transferred later to the GPL store for a high price that still favors event participation.)

    I agree to disagree.

    On the magic versus resort idea. Q's winter wonderland is him flashing in of things happening so you get snowball fights with snowmen and the like. Risa you lounge on the beach or ride a hovering surfboard.
    Halloween by contrast has 'spooky' elements meant to scare you. Haunted house events are held and some used to be part of major theme parks. (Not sure how many still are.) This way the 'park' has a few destinations within it. And presumably the 'ghosts' would be holograms, etc.
    I like the idea of costumes and holo-emitters. Probably easier that generating a way to have hats in STO.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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