I wish they'd go back to the original color structure of Gold for Command and Red for Operations (Eng)
Well... they did for Enterprise.
And they're doing it again for the reboot movies.
So in a way you already got your wish. They're probably gonna do the same colors for Discovery when that comes out too since its 10 or so years before TOS.
You know, I forgot about Enterprise good catch!!! True - Yep...The movie(s) that was set during that period would stand to reason - but I was more or less speaking going forward from the 25th century and such....
Discovery (the all access tv show) which I guess I'll be paying another monthly fee for - is set 10 years before the TOS the mid 50's so, that would be Capt. Pikes time, it will be interesting to see how that is dealt with..
The Green / Gold thing use to baffle me as to why Kirk's dress uniform along with his tunic was green and his regular duty uniform was Gold - Kirk should have worn the tunic more so as to stand out. But, the cool thing was the rank braids on the cuffs which I prefer to the pips on the collar. However, to be fair the first version on the green tunic had the rank braids on the collar.
However, does anyone know why the color scheme changed anyway? was it because that everyone wore red in the later movies mostly???
The colour is canonically gold. Sisko says so in the Tribble episode.
I know that. It's just that it originally wasn't supposed to
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
However, does anyone know why the color scheme changed anyway? was it because that everyone wore red in the later movies mostly???
Out of universe it was because the TNG designers decided that Patrick Stewart clashed with gold (or it made him look fat or something) and Spiner's makeup clashed with blue (he was originally the science officer).
In universe the colours change all the time; ENT and the Franklin had Yellow/Red/Green the Kelvin had Blue/DarkGreen/Brown the Cage had Mustard/Salmon/Blue, TOS and the KT had Yellow/Red/Blue, TMP had an undecipherable mess, TWoK had White/Orange/Grey, TNG, DS9, and VOY had Red/Yellow/Blue, and the future (29th century) had Blue/Brown/ReddishOrange.
The colour is canonically gold. Sisko says so in the Tribble episode.
I know that. It's just that it originally wasn't supposed to
I prefer the yellow. The green looks too stand out on his wraparound. I prefer the brown Cage era wraparound Charley is wearing in Charley X or the normal command coloured waistcoats and jackets Picard and Sisko wear in TNG and DS9.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I really think TMP gets too little credits for the costume design. Granted, it doesn't stand the test of time nearly as good as TOS or TNG (which both, in my opinion, look still good and plausible) but the department colours were in the badges - this was completely unrecognizable on screen, but in theory if you dig into the design notes on the TMP costumes there is a lot going on and of course it tumbled the department colours around majorly.
I prefer the yellow. The green looks too stand out on his wraparound. I prefer the brown Cage era wraparound Charley is wearing in Charley X or the normal command coloured waistcoats and jackets Picard and Sisko wear in TNG and DS9.
I'd say it's probably habitation to the gold colour. The green would be a more logical choice having RGB be the department colours. I always wanted to do a STO mock up of green command and see how it looks, but I never did it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I really think TMP gets too little credits for the costume design. Granted, it doesn't stand the test of time nearly as good as TOS or TNG (which both, in my opinion, look still good and plausible) but the department colours were in the badges - this was completely unrecognizable on screen, but in theory if you dig into the design notes on the TMP costumes there is a lot going on and of course it tumbled the department colours around majorly.
I don't give it any credit because I despise it. The colours are bland and uninspiring, the thousand different cuts and styles are very unorganised, the tight 'asset' enhancing fabrics make it look worse (somehow!) than the childish TNG S1&2 uniforms.
It's not all bad, I do like the Admirals uniform (apparently that was the standard design for all at one point), I also like Kirk's sleeveless captains variant (again better than his silly wraparound), and the hazard suit that was reused in TUC.
I mean, just look at this...
If it wasn't for the badges, you could't tell all these people were wearing uniforms at all. It's a 1970s Swedish sauna party. Not even every fourth uniform matches another.
I've no doubt a lot of work was put into them, I just think it was too much work. It's far too over designed in the same way the first two KT films were. Star Trek has never needed a thousand different variants for each different person, even the most complex (TWoK) is only more complex in the way it has a couple of extra departments the others don't and even then it's still only a matter of changing the colour of the jumper.
I prefer the yellow. The green looks too stand out on his wraparound. I prefer the brown Cage era wraparound Charley is wearing in Charley X or the normal command coloured waistcoats and jackets Picard and Sisko wear in TNG and DS9.
I'd say it's probably habitation to the gold colour. The green would be a more logical choice having RGB be the department colours. I always wanted to do a STO mock up of green command and see how it looks, but I never did it.
It's not that, I just think the green is too bold to stick out as a monochrome block. A dark green might look nicer, but the more lime colour just dosn't work for me.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think I read somewhere that the reason the TMP uniforms are so... bland, to stay polite, was that this way, viewers would focus more on the characters' face and expressions. Unfortunately, since the main expression used by everyone in this movie is of dull surprise, it backfired, to say the least.
I am fine with the TMP uniforms, the less military like, the better, imo.
It's the TWoK uniforms I don't like ~puts on a hard hat for any objects thrown her way~, they look too military, too uncomfortable and not to mention too dressy looking for regular everyday stuff.
I've no doubt a lot of work was put into them, I just think it was too much work. It's far too over designed in the same way the first two KT films were. Star Trek has never needed a thousand different variants for each different person, even the most complex (TWoK) is only more complex in the way it has a couple of extra departments the others don't and even then it's still only a matter of changing the colour of the jumper.
I can agree with that. A lot of it doesn't work in practice, as I said, the badges aren't even recognizable on screen. And the costumes just scream 70s (the colours and bootleg cuts...) and unforutnately the seventies have not aged well, worse than the sixties. But I really like the general idea they had, of utility suits and "cruise liner" uniforms. But I also kinda like TMP as a whole, the mostly musicless atmosphere, the sounds, the slow approach to something unknown - it has big flaws and I wouldn't walk through fire for it, but in essence I prefer it over the action packed gimmick movies of modern times - and I almost universally despise seventies filmmaking
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I've no doubt a lot of work was put into them, I just think it was too much work. It's far too over designed in the same way the first two KT films were. Star Trek has never needed a thousand different variants for each different person, even the most complex (TWoK) is only more complex in the way it has a couple of extra departments the others don't and even then it's still only a matter of changing the colour of the jumper.
I can agree with that. A lot of it doesn't work in practice, as I said, the badges aren't even recognizable on screen. And the costumes just scream 70s (the colours and bootleg cuts...) and unforutnately the seventies have not aged well, worse than the sixties. But I really like the general idea they had, of utility suits and "cruise liner" uniforms. But I also kinda like TMP as a whole, the mostly musicless atmosphere, the sounds, the slow approach to something unknown - it has big flaws and I wouldn't walk through fire for it, but in essence I prefer it over the action packed gimmick movies of modern times - and I almost universally despise seventies filmmaking
Nice to see I am not the only think this way. I don't care for fast paced "pew! pew!" action flicks either.
Though I liked a lot of seventies films and series.....TMP, Close Encounters, Silent Running, Alien, etc
Not to mention classic Doctor Who.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'd still take Into Darkness over TMP. At least ID was fun and you felt like you'd seen a film at all by the end. Nothing happened in TMP, there were no consequences and nothing was learnt about the characters our ourselves. Even TFF gave us some Wizard of Oz type message.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I am fine with the TMP uniforms, the less military like, the better, imo.
It's the TWoK uniforms I don't like ~puts on a hard hat for any objects thrown her way~, they look too military, too uncomfortable and not to mention too dressy looking for regular everyday stuff.
Don't hurt. o.o
The comfort factor goes aloooong way with me and that is what Pilot(s) and TOS uniforms had going for them (that included Cuban heel boots) along with being cool, color coded and casual with dress uniforms being reserved for the rare special occasions I wish they'd had kept the look into the motion pictures that followed.
TMP aka the Star Wars influence was in - effect my problem with this is that it made it seem that Star Trek was trying to follow Star Wars in the trend dept. when it should have been the other way around. It's too bad Paramount Gulf+ Western couldn't have gotten their act together sooner and launched before 1977 beating Star Wars to the punch.
Meanwhile....the TWoK uni(s) for me, look like they were just too stiff like wearing a suit not fun or, comfortable to wear period!
I'd still take Into Darkness over TMP. At least ID was fun and you felt like you'd seen a film at all by the end. Nothing happened in TMP, there were no consequences and nothing was learnt about the characters our ourselves. Even TFF gave us some Wizard of Oz type message.
TMP is called Star Trek: The SLOW Motion Picture for a reason.
It does pass over some people.
(I find that it's the most thought provoking Trek thing out there but that's through implication and introspection. Not everyone goes to the movies for that.)
Meanwhile....the TWoK uni(s) for me, look like they were just too stiff like wearing a suit not fun or, comfortable to wear period!
As much as I love the design of these, they always did strike me as a more difficult uniform to wear on a daily basis (in spite of what the actors had to say themselves.) I think the Odyssey oddly struck the best balance by giving us something very much like TWOK and more "active" variants (that weren't associated strictly with lower ranked crewmembers.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
(I find that it's the most thought provoking Trek thing out there but that's through implication and introspection. Not everyone goes to the movies for that.)
And I liked Insurrection because it was more of a moral story. Does anyone have a right to take resources by force "for the good of others", and at what point does something become wrong? At what point does an order become illegal?
I'd still take Into Darkness over TMP. At least ID was fun and you felt like you'd seen a film at all by the end. Nothing happened in TMP, there were no consequences and nothing was learnt about the characters our ourselves. Even TFF gave us some Wizard of Oz type message.
TMP is called Star Trek: The SLOW Motion Picture for a reason.
Some of us like a slow, non fast pace "fight the bad guy!" films.
TMP always gonna be my favorite.
(I find that it's the most thought provoking Trek thing out there but that's through implication and introspection. Not everyone goes to the movies for that.)
And I liked Insurrection because it was more of a moral story. Does anyone have a right to take resources by force "for the good of others", and at what point does something become wrong? At what point does an order become illegal?
Just look at the US post WW2. ~puts on another hard hat~
Thought provoking films and series seems to be a lost art.
I am fine with the TMP uniforms, the less military like, the better, imo.
It's the TWoK uniforms I don't like ~puts on a hard hat for any objects thrown her way~, they look too military, too uncomfortable and not to mention too dressy looking for regular everyday stuff.
(I find that it's the most thought provoking Trek thing out there but that's through implication and introspection. Not everyone goes to the movies for that.)
And I liked Insurrection because it was more of a moral story. Does anyone have a right to take resources by force "for the good of others", and at what point does something become wrong? At what point does an order become illegal?
The nice thing about a franchise as big and broad as Star Trek is that between all the various parts there's a huge slice of the human experience. You go to one film/episode for one thing, another episode for another look. By in large, it doesn't restrict itself (which is in part why I like TMP so much, it takes a wild opportunity to make an entire movie from the "monkey's staring up into the monolith" scene from 2001 and yet connects it back to give the monkeys empowering hope from their own capacities. The monolith doesn't sit in judgement. It asks "what's next?")
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Unfortunately, some people look down on some of those aspects. First Contact is lorded over as the best of the TNG era films, while Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are cited as the best of the TOS era films. While I wouldn't dispute the claims for WoK and TUC... I also want to add Voyage Home as a good one as well.
Final Frontier... felt like one of the cheesy episodes of TOS with a plot that actually did NOT make sense. How was Sybok able to sway a trained Starfleet crew by basically being a glorified counselor? At least if you read the Q Continuum books the Sha-Ka-Re entity gets some explanation as to why it couldn't leave without help. It was a PRISON!
Unfortunately, some people look down on some of those aspects. First Contact is lorded over as the best of the TNG era films, while Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are cited as the best of the TOS era films. While I wouldn't dispute the claims for WoK and TUC... I also want to add Voyage Home as a good one as well.
Final Frontier... felt like one of the cheesy episodes of TOS with a plot that actually did NOT make sense. How was Sybok able to sway a trained Starfleet crew by basically being a glorified counselor? At least if you read the Q Continuum books the Sha-Ka-Re entity gets some explanation as to why it couldn't leave without help. It was a PRISON!
I actually liked the "cheesy episode of TOS" vibe since it brought the focus down to a character-driven episode that felt like a very direct continuation of the series. I put it with "Trouble with Tribbles" (more so that Voyage home because while they were both more light hearted, Final Frontier works more directly with the "present" Star Trek universe.)
Sybok's power I always took as the following: by sharing people's "inner pain" (ie. those life changing moments of sadness, grief, and shame) he released a key motivating factor in their lives. That made them highly suggestible and very trusting the man who gave them that release (since that moment is the embodiment of trust in normal social situations.) Kirk's "I need my pain!" and Spock's frank acceptance of his life resist this "easy way out" offered by Sybok.
More than being a glorified councilor (who only tries to do the following) Sybok had the power to use mind-melds to basically become your best bro in all the galaxy, the one you'd do anything for. They don't explain it well but it makes a bit more sense if you take a step back and think of what a person like that (who knows and accepts your inner most pain) can mean to both the disenfranchised and the career officer. They're particularly susceptible to the "special bro" approach (but it benefits them as well, as shown most in the main trio.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Unfortunately, some people look down on some of those aspects. First Contact is lorded over as the best of the TNG era films, while Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are cited as the best of the TOS era films. While I wouldn't dispute the claims for WoK and TUC... I also want to add Voyage Home as a good one as well.
Final Frontier... felt like one of the cheesy episodes of TOS with a plot that actually did NOT make sense. How was Sybok able to sway a trained Starfleet crew by basically being a glorified counselor? At least if you read the Q Continuum books the Sha-Ka-Re entity gets some explanation as to why it couldn't leave without help. It was a PRISON!
I actually liked the "cheesy episode of TOS" vibe since it brought the focus down to a character-driven episode that felt like a very direct continuation of the series. I put it with "Trouble with Tribbles" (more so that Voyage home because while they were both more light hearted, Final Frontier works more directly with the "present" Star Trek universe.)
Sybok's power I always took as the following: by sharing people's "inner pain" (ie. those life changing moments of sadness, grief, and shame) he released a key motivating factor in their lives. That made them highly suggestible and very trusting the man who gave them that release (since that moment is the embodiment of trust in normal social situations.) Kirk's "I need my pain!" and Spock's frank acceptance of his life resist this "easy way out" offered by Sybok.
More than being a glorified councilor (who only tries to do the following) Sybok had the power to use mind-melds to basically become your best bro in all the galaxy, the one you'd do anything for. They don't explain it well but it makes a bit more sense if you take a step back and think of what a person like that (who knows and accepts your inner most pain) can mean to both the disenfranchised and the career officer. They're particularly susceptible to the "special bro" approach (but it benefits them as well, as shown most in the main trio.)
I actually liked Sybok, he was not a bad guy and was genuine in helping folks...remember, when Spock said he would not go with him, he did got get mad or anything, he just smiled and went off.
And having lost my dad as well to a illness that let him to crippling pain, I can relate with McCoy, and I bet Bones did feel much better after what Sybok did for him, same for Spock...each carrying something they never talked about...and sometimes letting it all out and crying DOES work better than bottling it up for years.
And I liked ST5 myself, I like the light hearted stuff...can not be dark and gritty, doom and gloom all the time, you know.
Unfortunately, some people look down on some of those aspects. First Contact is lorded over as the best of the TNG era films, while Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are cited as the best of the TOS era films. While I wouldn't dispute the claims for WoK and TUC... I also want to add Voyage Home as a good one as well.
Final Frontier... felt like one of the cheesy episodes of TOS with a plot that actually did NOT make sense. How was Sybok able to sway a trained Starfleet crew by basically being a glorified counselor? At least if you read the Q Continuum books the Sha-Ka-Re entity gets some explanation as to why it couldn't leave without help. It was a PRISON!
I actually liked the "cheesy episode of TOS" vibe since it brought the focus down to a character-driven episode that felt like a very direct continuation of the series. I put it with "Trouble with Tribbles" (more so that Voyage home because while they were both more light hearted, Final Frontier works more directly with the "present" Star Trek universe.)
Sybok's power I always took as the following: by sharing people's "inner pain" (ie. those life changing moments of sadness, grief, and shame) he released a key motivating factor in their lives. That made them highly suggestible and very trusting the man who gave them that release (since that moment is the embodiment of trust in normal social situations.) Kirk's "I need my pain!" and Spock's frank acceptance of his life resist this "easy way out" offered by Sybok.
More than being a glorified councilor (who only tries to do the following) Sybok had the power to use mind-melds to basically become your best bro in all the galaxy, the one you'd do anything for. They don't explain it well but it makes a bit more sense if you take a step back and think of what a person like that (who knows and accepts your inner most pain) can mean to both the disenfranchised and the career officer. They're particularly susceptible to the "special bro" approach (but it benefits them as well, as shown most in the main trio.)
I actually liked Sybok, he was not a bad guy and was genuine in helping folks...remember, when Spock said he would not go with him, he did got get mad or anything, he just smiled and went off.
And having lost my dad as well to a illness that let him to crippling pain, I can relate with McCoy, and I bet Bones did feel much better after what Sybok did for him, same for Spock...each carrying something they never talked about...and sometimes letting it all out and crying DOES work better than bottling it up for years.
And I liked ST5 myself, I like the light hearted stuff...can not be dark and gritty, doom and gloom all the time, you know.
I can too, relate to that pain as my Dad went through similar, due to stroke complications and the consequences that follow and, that Dr. McCoy scene was rather prophetic in my case!
Yeah, Sybok was a good guy, or, better yet came from a good guy place he, as with some people, was just misguided by something he thought and believed in and history is full of that!!!
Until Sybok met Kirk and really disproved all at Ska ka Ree, Kirk with the strongest will in the galaxy, just powered through Sybok's hypnodisk mind meld effects (just wasn't having any of it), From Kirk's stand point, it was just so much pyscho babble and his pain was something that he needed to fuel him, especially, in certain situations as part of his inner strength and sheer indomitable will power.
I loved it when Kirk asked "what does god need with a star ship?" and McCoy says "you don't ask god for his id"
Hmm. now I'll have to watch this ST5 again, after the Dodger game:)
Comments
You know, I forgot about Enterprise good catch!!! True - Yep...The movie(s) that was set during that period would stand to reason - but I was more or less speaking going forward from the 25th century and such....
Discovery (the all access tv show) which I guess I'll be paying another monthly fee for - is set 10 years before the TOS the mid 50's so, that would be Capt. Pikes time, it will be interesting to see how that is dealt with..
The Green / Gold thing use to baffle me as to why Kirk's dress uniform along with his tunic was green and his regular duty uniform was Gold - Kirk should have worn the tunic more so as to stand out. But, the cool thing was the rank braids on the cuffs which I prefer to the pips on the collar. However, to be fair the first version on the green tunic had the rank braids on the collar.
However, does anyone know why the color scheme changed anyway? was it because that everyone wore red in the later movies mostly???
.
I know that. It's just that it originally wasn't supposed to
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Out of universe it was because the TNG designers decided that Patrick Stewart clashed with gold (or it made him look fat or something) and Spiner's makeup clashed with blue (he was originally the science officer).
In universe the colours change all the time; ENT and the Franklin had Yellow/Red/Green the Kelvin had Blue/DarkGreen/Brown the Cage had Mustard/Salmon/Blue, TOS and the KT had Yellow/Red/Blue, TMP had an undecipherable mess, TWoK had White/Orange/Grey, TNG, DS9, and VOY had Red/Yellow/Blue, and the future (29th century) had Blue/Brown/ReddishOrange.
I prefer the yellow. The green looks too stand out on his wraparound. I prefer the brown Cage era wraparound Charley is wearing in Charley X or the normal command coloured waistcoats and jackets Picard and Sisko wear in TNG and DS9.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I really think TMP gets too little credits for the costume design. Granted, it doesn't stand the test of time nearly as good as TOS or TNG (which both, in my opinion, look still good and plausible) but the department colours were in the badges - this was completely unrecognizable on screen, but in theory if you dig into the design notes on the TMP costumes there is a lot going on and of course it tumbled the department colours around majorly.
I'd say it's probably habitation to the gold colour. The green would be a more logical choice having RGB be the department colours. I always wanted to do a STO mock up of green command and see how it looks, but I never did it.
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I don't give it any credit because I despise it. The colours are bland and uninspiring, the thousand different cuts and styles are very unorganised, the tight 'asset' enhancing fabrics make it look worse (somehow!) than the childish TNG S1&2 uniforms.
It's not all bad, I do like the Admirals uniform (apparently that was the standard design for all at one point), I also like Kirk's sleeveless captains variant (again better than his silly wraparound), and the hazard suit that was reused in TUC.
I mean, just look at this...
If it wasn't for the badges, you could't tell all these people were wearing uniforms at all. It's a 1970s Swedish sauna party. Not even every fourth uniform matches another.
I've no doubt a lot of work was put into them, I just think it was too much work. It's far too over designed in the same way the first two KT films were. Star Trek has never needed a thousand different variants for each different person, even the most complex (TWoK) is only more complex in the way it has a couple of extra departments the others don't and even then it's still only a matter of changing the colour of the jumper.
It's not that, I just think the green is too bold to stick out as a monochrome block. A dark green might look nicer, but the more lime colour just dosn't work for me.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
It's the TWoK uniforms I don't like ~puts on a hard hat for any objects thrown her way~, they look too military, too uncomfortable and not to mention too dressy looking for regular everyday stuff.
Don't hurt. o.o
I can agree with that. A lot of it doesn't work in practice, as I said, the badges aren't even recognizable on screen. And the costumes just scream 70s (the colours and bootleg cuts...) and unforutnately the seventies have not aged well, worse than the sixties. But I really like the general idea they had, of utility suits and "cruise liner" uniforms. But I also kinda like TMP as a whole, the mostly musicless atmosphere, the sounds, the slow approach to something unknown - it has big flaws and I wouldn't walk through fire for it, but in essence I prefer it over the action packed gimmick movies of modern times - and I almost universally despise seventies filmmaking
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Nice to see I am not the only think this way. I don't care for fast paced "pew! pew!" action flicks either.
Though I liked a lot of seventies films and series.....TMP, Close Encounters, Silent Running, Alien, etc
Not to mention classic Doctor Who.
Oh, and
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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The comfort factor goes aloooong way with me and that is what Pilot(s) and TOS uniforms had going for them (that included Cuban heel boots) along with being cool, color coded and casual with dress uniforms being reserved for the rare special occasions I wish they'd had kept the look into the motion pictures that followed.
TMP aka the Star Wars influence was in - effect my problem with this is that it made it seem that Star Trek was trying to follow Star Wars in the trend dept. when it should have been the other way around. It's too bad Paramount Gulf+ Western couldn't have gotten their act together sooner and launched before 1977 beating Star Wars to the punch.
Meanwhile....the TWoK uni(s) for me, look like they were just too stiff like wearing a suit not fun or, comfortable to wear period!
I mean... would you believe this
Started life as this?
It does pass over some people.
(I find that it's the most thought provoking Trek thing out there but that's through implication and introspection. Not everyone goes to the movies for that.)
As much as I love the design of these, they always did strike me as a more difficult uniform to wear on a daily basis (in spite of what the actors had to say themselves.) I think the Odyssey oddly struck the best balance by giving us something very much like TWOK and more "active" variants (that weren't associated strictly with lower ranked crewmembers.)
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And I liked Insurrection because it was more of a moral story. Does anyone have a right to take resources by force "for the good of others", and at what point does something become wrong? At what point does an order become illegal?
Some of us like a slow, non fast pace "fight the bad guy!" films.
TMP always gonna be my favorite.
Just look at the US post WW2. ~puts on another hard hat~
Thought provoking films and series seems to be a lost art.
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Final Frontier... felt like one of the cheesy episodes of TOS with a plot that actually did NOT make sense. How was Sybok able to sway a trained Starfleet crew by basically being a glorified counselor? At least if you read the Q Continuum books the Sha-Ka-Re entity gets some explanation as to why it couldn't leave without help. It was a PRISON!
I actually liked the "cheesy episode of TOS" vibe since it brought the focus down to a character-driven episode that felt like a very direct continuation of the series. I put it with "Trouble with Tribbles" (more so that Voyage home because while they were both more light hearted, Final Frontier works more directly with the "present" Star Trek universe.)
Sybok's power I always took as the following: by sharing people's "inner pain" (ie. those life changing moments of sadness, grief, and shame) he released a key motivating factor in their lives. That made them highly suggestible and very trusting the man who gave them that release (since that moment is the embodiment of trust in normal social situations.) Kirk's "I need my pain!" and Spock's frank acceptance of his life resist this "easy way out" offered by Sybok.
More than being a glorified councilor (who only tries to do the following) Sybok had the power to use mind-melds to basically become your best bro in all the galaxy, the one you'd do anything for. They don't explain it well but it makes a bit more sense if you take a step back and think of what a person like that (who knows and accepts your inner most pain) can mean to both the disenfranchised and the career officer. They're particularly susceptible to the "special bro" approach (but it benefits them as well, as shown most in the main trio.)
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PIGGY!
I actually liked Sybok, he was not a bad guy and was genuine in helping folks...remember, when Spock said he would not go with him, he did got get mad or anything, he just smiled and went off.
And having lost my dad as well to a illness that let him to crippling pain, I can relate with McCoy, and I bet Bones did feel much better after what Sybok did for him, same for Spock...each carrying something they never talked about...and sometimes letting it all out and crying DOES work better than bottling it up for years.
And I liked ST5 myself, I like the light hearted stuff...can not be dark and gritty, doom and gloom all the time, you know.
I can too, relate to that pain as my Dad went through similar, due to stroke complications and the consequences that follow and, that Dr. McCoy scene was rather prophetic in my case!
Yeah, Sybok was a good guy, or, better yet came from a good guy place he, as with some people, was just misguided by something he thought and believed in and history is full of that!!!
Until Sybok met Kirk and really disproved all at Ska ka Ree, Kirk with the strongest will in the galaxy, just powered through Sybok's hypnodisk mind meld effects (just wasn't having any of it), From Kirk's stand point, it was just so much pyscho babble and his pain was something that he needed to fuel him, especially, in certain situations as part of his inner strength and sheer indomitable will power.
I loved it when Kirk asked "what does god need with a star ship?" and McCoy says "you don't ask god for his id"
Hmm. now I'll have to watch this ST5 again, after the Dodger game:)