And when I say you can't compare EVE and STO is because its like comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same animal. It would be more fair to compare STO to WoW or TOR.
Of course EVE's gonna have more put into PvP because THAT'S LITERALLY ALL EVE IS! STO is not the same kind of game, so you can't say for a fact it is superior due to the fact they are so totally different. It would be like saying Call of Duty is better than Mass Effect. Yea they're both shooters, but that's where the similarity ends. Ones a pure First Person Shooter and the other is a real time Action RPG. Same thing with STO vs EVE.
STO has always been inferior to SWTOR and even more so to EVE.
To be fair, TOR has the backing of a major videogame company, namely EA, so their budget is MUCH larger, hence why EVERYTHING has VO, and each class has its own unique story.
Had. When the game sort of flopped, they only did a faction story in the first expansion, then after that it's all been one story, no matter what faction - you are simply The Outlander and there's a whole new part of the galaxy with no Sith or Jedi (which is when I stopped playing)
STO has always been inferior to SWTOR and even more so to EVE.
To be fair, TOR has the backing of a major videogame company, namely EA, so their budget is MUCH larger, hence why EVERYTHING has VO, and each class has its own unique story. STO has had to make due with a smaller budget, and is still one of the better F2P models out there.
As for EVE... that game is not a good comparison as that one has no story. Its an MMO sandbox. You want to be a miner, be a miner. Want to shoot things? Go shoot things. Want to gank players without warning? Go gank players without warning. Want to get into a massive war that costs people real money for losing their nice ships? You can do that. Hell... I heard a story where someone spent LOTS of money making this awesome top tier dreadnought... and it lasted only a few minutes because so many people were waiting for it to launch... so they could instantly destroy it. All that money... wasted.
Most of the reason people hear stories of people losing real money on EVE is becuase of one of two reasons -
A: someone who doesn't know how to make ISK in game spending tons of money on PLEX (sub time extensions) to sell for in game ISK, or
B: the awful fact that people try and compare ISK to real money amounts making it sound like these ships actually do have to cost real money.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I think some of you are missing the obvious here; this matchmaking system may or may not work for PvP...but it's giong to be a sea=change in PvE. Here's why:
it removes the excuse of "I got an AFK penalty and I didn't even get to try-the Entity/gateway/etc. was dead before my engines could get me out of spawn."
you've seen the posts. It's been going on since they instituted the AFK penalty-people who don't do enough damage getting aFK'd even when they were actively trying to participate..
this'll be the end of THAT. Under this system, if it works as advertised, the only way you'll get a Player with an AFK is if they in fact, earned it.
If they expand it to include PvE. Right now, it sounds like normal PvE is excluded.
@starkaos survived 5 years with a decent community with no update whatsoever, it took DR to almost kill the community. Any update to PvP and any revamp with an attempt at balance will be seen as a good thing and hopefully bring the community back to it.
Cryptic will have to be up for constructive criticism and act on it though.
I think some of you are missing the obvious here; this matchmaking system may or may not work for PvP...but it's giong to be a sea=change in PvE. Here's why:
it removes the excuse of "I got an AFK penalty and I didn't even get to try-the Entity/gateway/etc. was dead before my engines could get me out of spawn."
you've seen the posts. It's been going on since they instituted the AFK penalty-people who don't do enough damage getting aFK'd even when they were actively trying to participate..
this'll be the end of THAT. Under this system, if it works as advertised, the only way you'll get a Player with an AFK is if they in fact, earned it.
There's no way that player potential will group high dps players with one another separate from low dps players that would be grouped with one another in regular PVEs. Unless there's some hilarious day one bug, which wouldn't be unprecedented.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
From what I can see in the news for the player potential system as listed, it was detailing how it would work in pvp specifically, and so it might not actually work that way in pve leading to the possibility that the system would work under two sets of values (this would be a good thing as pve and pvp function on a fundamentally different set of rules). Though i would hazard to guess that for the few weeks at the longest we might have some rocky times, while the system calibrates itself an runs thru the needed matches to begin to actually make meaningful competitive matches.As to start it will only be able to determine fair matches on what specs, gear, and quality of gear a character is using as they go into a match, since the history of matches that would normally be used to differentiated between the different levels of skilled players has not been built up.
I could see this being used similarly in pve though where to begin with the system is going to seek to create groups of players that are using a similar set of gear, gear quality, while as the players keep playing the system would compile info from there mission completions that could be used to segment the players a bit more into groups that would be competitive to group with each other (like info on their personal performance from dps to healing an survivability an even completion times on the relevant ques).
I'm really grateful for the new fresh of air brought to PVP. However, would you please (DEVs/MrEP) consider making this Player Potential System that in a nutshell calculates your PvP (competitive PvE) ranking in matches OPTIONAL?
If you take current PvEs as a basis can you see how many of those are empty now or made useless. I can't imagine the number of players who would be waiting for a match to start to the same rank you have. Probably won't ever happen.
If this is optional why not divide it as "ranked PvP" and "UNRANKED PvP" matches and give the player the choice to opt in/out. You are limiting the playerbase into slots that probably will be detrimental so some degree.
See SWTOR's model for rank vs unranked. I know lots of peeps hate PvPs but their unranked matches are always fun and a crowd pleaser in the PvP community.
If the system is made optional, does that not defeat the whole purpose of the system.
Also, do you think that being allowed to vape unsuspecting/unprepared players is good for PVP?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I think some of you are missing the obvious here; this matchmaking system may or may not work for PvP...but it's giong to be a sea=change in PvE. Here's why:
it removes the excuse of "I got an AFK penalty and I didn't even get to try-the Entity/gateway/etc. was dead before my engines could get me out of spawn."
you've seen the posts. It's been going on since they instituted the AFK penalty-people who don't do enough damage getting aFK'd even when they were actively trying to participate..
this'll be the end of THAT. Under this system, if it works as advertised, the only way you'll get a Player with an AFK is if they in fact, earned it.
If they expand it to include PvE. Right now, it sounds like normal PvE is excluded.
Hopefully they don't. Teaming up the weak players together in PvE is a stupid idea that would just lead to them crying the game is "too hard" (again).
The real solution to the constant false positives of the so-called "AFK penalty" is to either replace the system with something that actually works or get rid of it.
Looks like you have a clear understanding of the situation. :P
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Its kinda amusing reading some of the comments where STO and TOR are compared..Have played both and I'll give the storyline for TOR a slight edge over STO (Lets see what the seasons ahead have in store, AoY was a bad example restricted to the Fed's I guess)..But in PvE's STO is much better, why?? Because your skill point, traits and abilities are on different plains altogether..Where in TOR its just focused on class abilities, no skill tree of such to compliment the abilities plus there is nothing like the Boff system in ground combat, TOR companions have their abilities permantly locked to three variants (Tank, heal, damage with a fixed set of abilities..)..
STO / TOR
-Skill tree not changable once selected unless a retrain/ No skill tree
-Captian Abilities / Class Abilities
-Changable Traits for ground and space with added rep traits to chose from / Selectable Abilities in tree form and locked once selected
-Trainable BoFF's with changeable abilities (Space only and depending on ship universal seating) / No changeable abilities
As for STO PvP..Well I have been in matches with fleeties where I was using a bare bone build and my fleetie was using high level gear and I was done for in under a minute..This is just an example..Another instance was when I used a Mk12 purple ship against my fleetie and we were going at each other for a good 10 mins..MY POINT..Its currently more of dependence on gearing and BoFF abilities dependent on skill set to determine the PvP outcome and not balance thats what I think cryptic is trying to do here..Balance the way you enter a PvP (Now its basically low level gear/ranked player enters a PvP and gets stompped by a High level gear/Ranked player..)
PS: TOR F2P model is no where near to STO, TOR is TRIBBLE at F2P, endgame gear is all behind a pa wall and the restrictions are laughable..Yes any company will look to exploit a way to get $$$$ and in this case Bioware does it better by putting nearly everythiong including certain PvE's, battlezones, galatic starfighter, galaxy zones (Eg: Rishi) and certain operational flashpoints behind a pay wall, you cant play them regularly and if you want to you have to buy weekly passes.. Its what bioware calls a free trial of an MMO..
Sorry for ranting..
But I'll say this it wouldnt hurt to see how this new implementation from cryptic goes and if it works it works if it doesnt weér still where we were then..
How about we first experience the actual system, how it works, and see if it is usefull or not, bevore making such statemends?
I mean, we are 3 weeks away from it being launched and it seems we already have made up our minds about it, without actual data and just based on 'a feeling of muh experience'
I admit given Cryptics track record I may have my reservations, but I am interrested to see how it works, and I do see its merrits, so I am looking forward to see it in action.
...you've seen the posts. It's been going on since they instituted the AFK penalty-people who don't do enough damage getting aFK'd even when they were actively trying to participate..
this'll be the end of THAT. Under this system, if it works as advertised, the only way you'll get a Player with an AFK is if they in fact, earned it.
Well, no.
See, if only the minimum number of players que up, then you are matched with those players.
The new system does nothing to prevent the inevitable "que death" all ques suffer once everyone maxes out the new reputation.
Why optional? It will only be in effect or relevant for the new CPVE Queues only. If you don't want to participate don't do those Queues.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Two pages, and I'm still unable to grasp what anyone has to gain by making the "player potential system" optional.
The OP was concerned the system would require players to wait for enough equal-rank players to play with, thus increasing queue wait times. This would obviously be bad.
Based on the announcement, I don't think this is the case, but it wasn't entirely clear we'll have to see.
Also known as gear rating. STO becomes even more like Neverwinter in space (game mechanic-wise). Not necessarily a bad thing and, perhaps, long overdue for a F2P game that started with subscriptions: different player-base with different expectations.
Potential... hmmm. Kinetic.
Shouldn't bad players have HIGH 'potential' and good players have low 'potential' since good players have transferred their potential into kinetic?
Two pages, and I'm still unable to grasp what anyone has to gain by making the "player potential system" optional.
The OP was concerned the system would require players to wait for enough equal-rank players to play with, thus increasing queue wait times. This would obviously be bad.
Based on the announcement, I don't think this is the case, but it wasn't entirely clear we'll have to see.
Put that way, I can see what the worry would be about...but it doesn't seem that whatever player ranking is generated will extend beyond the new CPvE, which makes it less of an issue.
I always thought of PvP as Player Vapes Player leading to Player Vacates Premises
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Comments
I didn't say anything about hating them.
And when I say you can't compare EVE and STO is because its like comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same animal. It would be more fair to compare STO to WoW or TOR.
Of course EVE's gonna have more put into PvP because THAT'S LITERALLY ALL EVE IS! STO is not the same kind of game, so you can't say for a fact it is superior due to the fact they are so totally different. It would be like saying Call of Duty is better than Mass Effect. Yea they're both shooters, but that's where the similarity ends. Ones a pure First Person Shooter and the other is a real time Action RPG. Same thing with STO vs EVE.
Had. When the game sort of flopped, they only did a faction story in the first expansion, then after that it's all been one story, no matter what faction - you are simply The Outlander and there's a whole new part of the galaxy with no Sith or Jedi (which is when I stopped playing)
Most of the reason people hear stories of people losing real money on EVE is becuase of one of two reasons -
A: someone who doesn't know how to make ISK in game spending tons of money on PLEX (sub time extensions) to sell for in game ISK, or
B: the awful fact that people try and compare ISK to real money amounts making it sound like these ships actually do have to cost real money.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
If they expand it to include PvE. Right now, it sounds like normal PvE is excluded.
Cryptic will have to be up for constructive criticism and act on it though.
I could see this being used similarly in pve though where to begin with the system is going to seek to create groups of players that are using a similar set of gear, gear quality, while as the players keep playing the system would compile info from there mission completions that could be used to segment the players a bit more into groups that would be competitive to group with each other (like info on their personal performance from dps to healing an survivability an even completion times on the relevant ques).
If the system is made optional, does that not defeat the whole purpose of the system.
Also, do you think that being allowed to vape unsuspecting/unprepared players is good for PVP?
The real solution to the constant false positives of the so-called "AFK penalty" is to either replace the system with something that actually works or get rid of it.
The same can be said for anyone crying that they're getting insta-vaped. Look up how they do it and make a build to counter it.
@hanover2
Looks like you have a clear understanding of the situation. :P
STO / TOR
-Skill tree not changable once selected unless a retrain/ No skill tree
-Captian Abilities / Class Abilities
-Changable Traits for ground and space with added rep traits to chose from / Selectable Abilities in tree form and locked once selected
-Trainable BoFF's with changeable abilities (Space only and depending on ship universal seating) / No changeable abilities
As for STO PvP..Well I have been in matches with fleeties where I was using a bare bone build and my fleetie was using high level gear and I was done for in under a minute..This is just an example..Another instance was when I used a Mk12 purple ship against my fleetie and we were going at each other for a good 10 mins..MY POINT..Its currently more of dependence on gearing and BoFF abilities dependent on skill set to determine the PvP outcome and not balance thats what I think cryptic is trying to do here..Balance the way you enter a PvP (Now its basically low level gear/ranked player enters a PvP and gets stompped by a High level gear/Ranked player..)
PS: TOR F2P model is no where near to STO, TOR is TRIBBLE at F2P, endgame gear is all behind a pa wall and the restrictions are laughable..Yes any company will look to exploit a way to get $$$$ and in this case Bioware does it better by putting nearly everythiong including certain PvE's, battlezones, galatic starfighter, galaxy zones (Eg: Rishi) and certain operational flashpoints behind a pay wall, you cant play them regularly and if you want to you have to buy weekly passes.. Its what bioware calls a free trial of an MMO..
Sorry for ranting..
But I'll say this it wouldnt hurt to see how this new implementation from cryptic goes and if it works it works if it doesnt weér still where we were then..
Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
I mean, we are 3 weeks away from it being launched and it seems we already have made up our minds about it, without actual data and just based on 'a feeling of muh experience'
I admit given Cryptics track record I may have my reservations, but I am interrested to see how it works, and I do see its merrits, so I am looking forward to see it in action.
See, if only the minimum number of players que up, then you are matched with those players.
The new system does nothing to prevent the inevitable "que death" all ques suffer once everyone maxes out the new reputation.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Based on the announcement, I don't think this is the case, but it wasn't entirely clear we'll have to see.
Shouldn't bad players have HIGH 'potential' and good players have low 'potential' since good players have transferred their potential into kinetic?
Put that way, I can see what the worry would be about...but it doesn't seem that whatever player ranking is generated will extend beyond the new CPvE, which makes it less of an issue.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.