Oddly I have a different problem in these. The chat channel is dead till we finish and I send a GG and get maybe one reply if that.
And I can't tell how I am performing. I run the terran mission over ds9 and one day I am melting the dreadnoughts. Next day same ship and build I am not even tickling a frigate. Pound on terak nor and keep myself alive while I have agro and then I blow up right after I respawn. . .
So how do I know if I am good enough to handle advanced or elite?
It isn't particularly difficult to figure out how good you would be for advanced and elite STFs. You don't even need a parser for it. You can look for these things and try them out to see if you consider yourself sufficient when *soloing* them and if you find your build lacking. If it is the latter then you are likely right about yourself.
1. How fast can you kill one single strong target.
2. How well can you duke it out (survive) against that one single target, such as the Undine, Voth and Borg Queen in Disconnected (normal), the Bulwarks in Disconnected, the tactical cube/gates in Khitomer and Infected or the Vonph Dreadnoughts in Grethor.
3. How fast can you kill and crowd control multiple targets. For example, the several spawning spheres in Khitomer as you attack the transformers, the four groups (two on each side) of Iconian Herald ships in Grethor before the second phase, the groups of ships in Federation Fleet Alert and Starbase Blockade.
4. How well can you stay alive against any of the abovementioned groups before dying.
5. How fast can you converge between each widely spread aforementioned groups of enemies, and how fast can you fly between the two transformers (back and forth) in Khitomer and Infected, and the cubes in Cure etc.
Kill time, survivability and speed will tell you a lot about your build and other people's builds regardless of whether it is science, engineer or tactical oriented. Pay attention to your own build in relation to the PVE environment but also how you are in relation to other player's builds. If you kill faster, survive longer and converge faster between objectives/targets than other players than you are likely better than them, and if there are players who outperform that current build then you know there is still potential room for minor or major improvements.
A parser is just a tool but you don't really need it. The power of observation and deduction can get you extremely far. The next step is looking for gear that complement each other in improving those things you consider yourself lacking in. This is where research comes in and there is an excellent STO gamepedia for this. The game practically presents all the options before you the in form of mission rewards, craftable items, reputation gear and Lobi gear. They are all there in the GUI and the game lists their names and stats. You then look that up and create a chart for yourself of different routes you can go and what it will yield.
And if these things are locked out you first get yourself to level 60 and do all the episodes so that you can see everything, and then you simply search the things you have yet to fully unlock like, "R & D level 15 traits, starship traits list, X Reputation Name sets", and the gamepedia will have excellent collected and structured information about these things.
Simple test for advanced ready is can you solo a red alert without blowing up.
There's so many things wrong with that statement i will not even begin to point them out.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Everyone who considers themselves "elite" got there through trial and error. You do not get to lock out those who's trial and error hasn't progressed as far as yours. You may either put up with people who are still developing their "eliteness," or you may organize a pre-made team.
You have to learn the game somehow. I wonder about these "elite" players who seem to have nothing to do in an stf but monitor everyone else's ship. Seems like you should be focused on your objectives, not worrying about how well other players are stacking up against you.
When you go into a mission such as Korfez and you can't pull at least 10k dps, you have no business being in there and are a drain on the team. People get mad because at the higher levels of difficulty you have to be able to pull a certain amount of damage and survive a certain amount of damage. If you can't then you hold your team back and pretty much guarantee that your team is going to fail. That's not elitism by any means, that's just a fact in the higher difficulty missions. You also don't need the best gear and bust stuff either to pull sufficient numbers. I've seen people pull 25k+ in a nihydron using the plasma-disruptors that you get from the episodes and using just free stuff from the missions. With all of the free stuff that they give you that's really good such as the Kobali set, or other free set from the missions, including some weapons with decent modifiers, there's absolutely no excuse for someone who's played long enough to get to not be able to learn and pull their own weight.
You have to keep in mind that if/when you step into a mission you're not ready for, then you're holding yourself back, but also the 4 other members of that team. Going into missions doesn't just effect you, it effects the team as a whole which is what I can't stress enough. I'm by no means someone who cares about high numbers. In fact I play as more of a tank/battleship. Most people don't expect ub3r l33t numbers, but they do expect that you can at least carry your own weight and have a basic understanding of what's going on. I don't see that as being too much to ask for in the higher difficulties. If you don't know what to do, then speak up and just say it. Most of the time folks will be willing to help you out. There are also videos people have made out there that can explain the fights and so on. Not to mention the briefings they give you explain what to do.
Unless you just absolutely have an off day, are completely new to the game, or Q just decides he hates you and wants you to fail, there's absolutely no excuse for people not to be able to learn with everything out there today.
You might say but Dark what if they're working on their gear, that's the only way they can get the power cells and bnps. However that's not accurate at all. Now you can exchange 100 marks to get a bnp once every 20 hours. Not to mention you can get them from rep boxes. Almost all reputations have some sort of battlezone or questing area you can go to as well to obtain alternative sources of bnps and power cells. You don't need the reputation gear before you can go into missions and stfs, you just don't. Until they can get those reputation sets, they can use one of the free sets such as the Kobali set, Sol Defense, Solanae, Jem'hadar, or Breen Set, just to name a few off the top of my head. Then there's also the Aegis set which is cheap on the exchange. Those 5 sets are free, very good quality, and will do those folks just fine until they're ready to step into advanced and elite. Anymore when people say "well that's the only way I can get the bnps and power cells to improve my gear," it's just an excuse for mediocrity and poor performance.
I get that everyone starts new and we all had to learn at some point. However I knew better than to go into the higher tiers of difficulty before I was ready. With all of the free stuff that they give you that can compete with, and even outperform the rep sets in some cases, there is absolutely no excuse for some of the absolutely abysmal performances that I've seen lately. The sad thing is, it used to not be this bad.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
People have "business" in public PUG queues whether you like it or not. The ONE AND ONLY TIME your team requires your approval is if you all agree to team up in advance.
People have "business" in public PUG queues whether you like it or not. The ONE AND ONLY TIME your team requires your approval is if you all agree to team up in advance.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.
You can fit Dual Heavy Cannons on an Atrox, does not mean that it is a smart idea...
Just because someone can queue for an Advanced/Elite queue, doesn't mean that they should.
So there are a few a related points in this thread, similar but not the same.
People with terrible DPS in elite STFs:
There probably should be some sort of gear req at the very least.
People not knowing what to do in Elite STFs:
It is rightly pointed out in here that the normal ones don't exactly prepare you. That is a shame, but the nature of the easier ones is they are easier.
What is amazingly easy though, is to watch someone in a 5 min youtube video show you exactly how to do it. In this digital age people are inexcusably ill-prepared for these things.
and finally... OMFG this guy in my PuG is totally useless... no DPS and no idea what to do:
Thing is, that guy can go around STO blissfully unaware that he is not contributing. Almost certainly in many of the PuG he will, in fact, win. Largely because the other 4 people on the team are carrying him. How would he know that he is the weak link? ... all he knows for sure is that YOU are in one of the ones that is failing.
Solution: Gated Elite queues.
Gated by gear
Gated by accolades for completing lower tiers with all optionals
and finally so the under-performer knows he sucks:
Performance records at the end of matches: healing and dps for example.
Everyone who considers themselves "elite" got there through trial and error. You do not get to lock out those who's trial and error hasn't progressed as far as yours. You may either put up with people who are still developing their "eliteness," or you may organize a pre-made team.
I don't blame people for trying things out by trial and error and seeing where they stand... but it doesn't take more than 3 tries of a specific STF to see how well you do in it. Learning its objectives may take longer but it's not like you are new to fighting mobs if you have done so for many hours and levels prior to joining your first STF. Certainly players must start somewhere and that is completely understandable, but I think a lot of players (without generalizing too much) actually abuse the strength of more powerful players. It is clearly noticable if you play a lot of STFs and realize the ratio of weak vs strong is 100: 1. It is doubtful you would have that many noobs playing an STF with such consistency in low skill and most importantly, random low gear.
I mean, if you look at all the episodes and what not you can have a ton of good gear even without looking at the exchange or the reputation gear. Question is, do people even play those missions or do they dive straight into advanced STFs? If people don't know whether they are good or not at killing mobs they should try out the Tau Dewa missions. Those are excellent for fighting multiple mobs and seeing how fast you move between each group, how fast you can kill multiple targets and also how well you survive having such aggro. And for those who do not know about Tau Dewa, well... it has been mentioned now.
Absolutely not, no way in hell does this game ever need to have integrated dps meters, you want to worry about that TRIBBLE you can go get your own leave the rest of us the hell alone.
Pretty strong view there. Why di you feel this so strongly? Surely you recognise the game gives no useful feedback to people about their performance.
These things are very useful tools to help develop players in Elite STFs.
One of the main issues with inexperienced players in advanced and elite content is when they simply ignore what the team is doing and flit about annoying every opponent on site.
Experienced players follow conventions and set strategies to deal with certain aspects of PvE's and STF's - take ISA for example, the accepted routine is to hit the initial cube/spheres, then go left and deal with the cube/spheres the tackle the generators/transformer with at least 1 member delaying the responding nanites.
When inexperienced players or underpowered players are present, several new factors emerge -
How many inexperienced/underpowered players are present?
How many know what they are doing?
How long will it take to realise that the team is underpowered or mainly inexperienced?
Are the inexperienced players going to help or hinder?
We, as experienced players shouldn't be bemoaning that they are there but rather encouraging them and telling them what to do. For example, we have all seen the player who is happily hammering the nanite transformer blissfully unaware that the nanite spheres are healing it faster than they are damaging it - so tell them to take out the nanites. This doesn't need to be done in a fashion which belittles or insults anyone, a simple "get the nanite spheres guys" is enough.
Simple statements which can be taken as a general lets do this and can apply no matter the overall experience of the team are all that are required, even phrasing them as a question - "Left first?" with someone replying "sounds good" should be enough so that inexperienced players realise what is happening.
Never seen any of my posts before have you? I do not parse, never have even once, never spent even a moment being concerned with DPS and I have been playing for years now. I will never join the cult of dps nor do I think anyone else ever should either.
I assumed that was why, but did not want to presume.
I have no love of the DPS cult either. This who wish to play the game that way can go off and enjoy it. I do not see why adding scores would damage the game in any way. I think there is a role for those meters in Elite STFs. There is certainly a floor below which you are frankly not doing enough.
So much of the game is far too easy... far too easy... and with no source of meaningful feedback players are duped into believing their ships are quite good because they never failed a story mission, and almost never die in them.
All said, I don't care what way it is delivered, I just want to see something in regards to elite queues that says 'sorry, but you are not ready for this yet'.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.
And just because you resent the inconvenience of your DPS speed run taking longer than a minute, does not mean I should voluntarily segregate myself until you deem me worthy.
Absolutely not, no way in hell does this game ever need to have integrated dps meters, you want to worry about that TRIBBLE you can go get your own leave the rest of us the hell alone.
In all honestly there should be a par-level set that a player must meet before they can que for an instance/stf of certain difficulties, this I believe is already done though, with that par being when that player is actually contributing meaningfully to the stf. This could be done via a scoring system that compiles your contribution, performance, alongside other things that you did in that stf, and then based off that score you gain access to higher difficulties of the stfs. Such a system would promote less of a afk or being carried mind-set that can be seen at times at work, and more of learning how to actually finish/do the stfs leading to better individual contribution overall.
Though i would nto mind the option to opt-out of being grouped into stf group with certain players, such as those with either extremely low contribution to the group or just really bad additudes, but i would say that such an opt-out feature should not be permanent but last for a specific period of time an then has to be done again. Like that if you played a stf with a group of players an had a very bad mannered players being able to opt-out of being grouped with that for several weeks would be nice, as than players have a chance to see if these players improve either thier attitude or contribution. This would also give the player a method of controlling their enjoyment of the game even more, by choosing who they are grouped with to a higher degree.
People have "business" in public PUG queues whether you like it or not. The ONE AND ONLY TIME your team requires your approval is if you all agree to team up in advance.
You may be able to queue for an elite match, but I and the other 3 team members in that run also have the right to tell you to step up your game if you're not pulling your own weight. When you queue up for a run you're not ready for in any way, you hold back the other 4 members of your team who must now make up for your lack of ability. If you take a run like Korfez that requires a bare minimum of 10k to clear the first phase, it's a pure gear check. If your team is each pulling 11k and you're only pulling 4k, then that's 2k dps that the team must make up for because you can't pull your own weight, and as such the mission will fail. It's not about "speed runs taking more than a minute" or anything of the such. It's about you or someone else queueing for something they're not ready for and in the process TRIBBLE 4 other people because you're not ready for the content. There is not one legitimate reason as to why 4 other people should have to put up with failed runs just because you wanted to queue for something you clearly weren't ready for. It's just a fact of the game whether you want to acknowledge it or not. There are certain minimums you must be able to do if you want to clear certain parts of the game.
You may not need permission to queue up, but why should the other 4 people have to carry you through the mission because you can't pull your own weight? Like I said, when there are some many free alternatives out there and easy ways to get great quality gear for free from missions, crafting, and so on, there is no excuse to not be able to do the bare minimum. You can call that being an elitist if you wish, but it's the truth that you're refusing to acknowledge for whatever reason. This game doesn't revolve around you, and there are other people that play this besides you. What right do you have to force 4 other people to carry you just because you think you have business in the run and are "allowed to queue."
Absolutely not, no way in hell does this game ever need to have integrated dps meters, you want to worry about that TRIBBLE you can go get your own leave the rest of us the hell alone.
As I said to the other person I quoted, why should the rest of the team have to put up with and carry people in runs who clearly are not ready? Why should myself and the other 3 guys be punished because our 5th teammate is pulling less than half of what's required and causing us to fail? As for dps meters, why should the rest of us be denied the use of such a useful tool in game simply because YOU have decided they're not needed. If they were to integrate them to the game you don't have to use them. Also if you don't know what you're doing damage wise, or even tank wise, how can you possibly know if you're doing good or need to improve or not? How can you possibly know if you're pulling the minimum required damage for the content or if you're not?
Likewise I could just as easily say, if you can't pull the minimum required damage and survival, stop wasting the time of everyone else in the run because you can't do it and aren't up to par. See what I did there, that logic cuts both ways. As I said to the previous person, there are more people who play this game besides you. Why should the rest of us be punished by being forced to carry people who clearly are not ready for certain content. It's not difficult to obtain gear, or to learn what your abilities do and so on, you just have to be willing to do it. So to paraphrase your statement, please stay out of advanced and elite queues until you can pull the minimum required damage and healing and leave the rest of us alone so we don't have to make up for your inability.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
We, as experienced players shouldn't be bemoaning that they are there but rather encouraging them and telling them what to do. For example, we have all seen the player who is happily hammering the nanite transformer blissfully unaware that the nanite spheres are healing it faster than they are damaging it - so tell them to take out the nanites. This doesn't need to be done in a fashion which belittles or insults anyone, a simple "get the nanite spheres guys" is enough.
Simple statements which can be taken as a general lets do this and can apply no matter the overall experience of the team are all that are required, even phrasing them as a question - "Left first?" with someone replying "sounds good" should be enough so that inexperienced players realise what is happening.
It gets kinda old after a while when you have to do it in nearly every STF you join. Yes, I know this kind of response to this phenomenon is solely a case of one's own attitude. However, it is rather an unfortunate fact that people consistently don't know what to do despite probably having played the normal version, and most importantly have insufficient gear in general and very much consistently so.
Also, while people catch on when they witness powerful ships move 3-4x times faster than them, kill things many times faster than them and survive hordes of enemies where they cannot, most people don't. The majority of players lack that power of observation and deduction. Moreover, a lot of people don't listen either. If you tell them that you and another buddy in the biggest ship of all, the Vonph Dreadnought that is an entire blob on their radar, will take one side people may still flock around you. This despite being told to fight on the other end. It is not like they don't see you. They just dont catch the hint or drift.
And no, I don't look for quick runs or entirely successful ones. But I think I am within my rights to appreciate and expect some effort from endgame players.
Surely some of these newbies in the advanced runs is a good sign though as it indicates newer players that are progressing to the level whereby they can run those missions. If you stopped seeing new players I'd get worried as it means something has stopped newbies from reaching that level (either they've left, or maybe things are too hard, expensive, grindy, time consuming, whatever).
Everyone had to start somewhere, we all did so rather than moaning about them why not actually try to help them. I've lost track of the number of times people have rage-quit ISA because an optional failed. TRIBBLE happens, deal with it and help finish the rest of the run. By quitting you leave any newbies in the run in a worse situation and that's never going to encourage them to improve.
Not every run will go perfectly but the way some people act it's like someone just stabbed them in the eye they TRIBBLE about it so much.
I'd sooner have a few newbies in my team who try to improve than some elitist TRIBBLE who thinks he knows the run off by heart and just goes against the known tactics.
I got to agree here that players have a right to que and do content, but the group of players you are with have a right to choose they do not want to carry you if you are not contributing enough in the group content you are in. I agree with many others that once you que for group content that is meant to be done with a group made up of other players, that you agree that you will contribute om a meaningful manner to the group effort to finish the content. An that is the issue many players are too worried about thier own progress an enjoyment when going into group content an discarding how their actions or contribution in the group content actually impact the other players. But also the players not wanting to deal with the dps cult or being told they are not contributing enough can make thier own groups to do the content, and the people complaining about people not contributing enough an having low dps can do thesame, as than the left over group of players actually can enjoy the stfs in peace.
I personally always though that optional objectives in the missions should give a modifier that alters your mark payout at the end, as well as that the opitional missions are how you gain the elite mark payout not just completing the stf, and that the actual amount of base marks you gain is based on your contribution in the stf at large. Though with such a system it would be nice to have the stfs cap output of a ship at a certain amount to make it that over-geared players do not skew the contribution of a team by to much (this should be standard even now. Overgeared players reduce the fun for many other players in the stf. as well as lead to players just afk leeching many times.).
Honestly people need to stop with this "just go make a pre-made if you do not like it" bs as both parties should than take their own advice an make a pre-made to get away from each other. I have no issue with them adding a good in-depth performance meter that actually monitors not just dps but other things as well (ability up times, effectiveness of a cc effects, procs, and such) to help players to improve their play. Though I would want them to not allow the results of this performance monitoring/meter system to be able to linked into chat at large, maybe being able to make a channel that will register the results an could have results from other player's meters applied to so that you can compare them but not directly into a chat/team/zone chat, and honestly if a player were going to use a dps meter to link an inflate his ego on his scores he is going to have one of the meters already out.
Second, dps is the single least important measure of how "good" someone is in this game.
This is one thing that always gets ignored whenever DPS is being talked about.
Having massive DPS in the 30-50K+ range is all well and good but if you can't fly for TRIBBLE and aim all that epeen somewhere properly then you are no more use than some newbie who only does 2K.
There is a massive difference between potential DPS and "effective DPS". Effective is being able to aim and fly sensible so that you are not wasting shots, or making sure you are hitting the right targets at the right time. Got watch a too DPS run video and you'll see it's not just about spamming as much damage as possible, there is a lot of perfect positioning and flying going on there.
Trouble is a lot of people think that because they can do a bazillion DPS they are elite, but they fail to realise that going into ISA pugs and spamming that DPS is probably not helping. You'll kill a generator before the rest of the team is ready and you might not have enough DPS alone to kill that transformer. Or you might aggro the wrong enemies and cause half the team to get killed. Or you could get so stuck into attacking something you forget to help your newbie teammate guard the vortex from probes in KSA.
Knowing when to use your build and how is worth a million times more than having some arbitrary DPS number.
Being "good" in this game is about a combination of lots of things; piloting, knowledge of the run, awareness of the rest of the team, awareness of what the enemy is doing, communication, damage output, adaptability, survivability, correct target selection.
But most of that can't be measured by a parser so people often forget about it.
Everyone who considers themselves "elite" got there through trial and error. You do not get to lock out those who's trial and error hasn't progressed as far as yours. You may either put up with people who are still developing their "eliteness," or you may organize a pre-made team.
"elite"? all i see written here is arrogance masqurading as reason. you are not really helping the case by basically saying you should join other teams because they got the numbers, as you wrote there you can only do it by trial and error, having a team to help "carry" you along wont help you out in learning the hard way. the only way you learn from stuff is people helping you if you are listen to learn but that is only half the battle, the rest of it is doing this learning without a safety net otherwise you dont learn much at all.
everyone has to learn things the hard way on their own sooner or later.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Honestly people need to stop with this "just go make a pre-made if you do not like it" bs as both parties should than take their own advice an make a pre-made to get away from each other.
The party making the complaint can be the one to make the adjustment here. I'm happy to ignore DPS epeeners complaining about optionals and speed runs. That's probably their real complaint, if they were to be honest about it: that nobody is obligated to care what they think.
I have no issue with them adding a good in-depth performance meter that actually monitors not just dps but other things as well (ability up times, effectiveness of a cc effects, procs, and such) to help players to improve their play. Though I would want them to not allow the results of this performance monitoring/meter system to be able to linked into chat at large, maybe being able to make a channel that will register the results an could have results from other player's meters applied to so that you can compare them but not directly into a chat/team/zone chat, and honestly if a player were going to use a dps meter to link an inflate his ego on his scores he is going to have one of the meters already out.
Epeening snobbery should never be officially facilitated. The unwashed masses are never going to voluntarily exclude themselves from your exalted presence, and you will never be able to forcibly undermine their free will. So you can either suck it up and learn to live with sub-optimal STF runs, or you can form a premade echo chamber and suffer the indignity of having no filthy casuals over which to lord your almighty greatness.
Honestly people need to stop with this "just go make a pre-made if you do not like it" bs as both parties should than take their own advice an make a pre-made to get away from each other.
The party making the complaint can be the one to make the adjustment here. I'm happy to ignore DPS epeeners complaining about optionals and speed runs. That's probably their real complaint, if they were to be honest about it: that nobody is obligated to care what they think.
I have no issue with them adding a good in-depth performance meter that actually monitors not just dps but other things as well (ability up times, effectiveness of a cc effects, procs, and such) to help players to improve their play. Though I would want them to not allow the results of this performance monitoring/meter system to be able to linked into chat at large, maybe being able to make a channel that will register the results an could have results from other player's meters applied to so that you can compare them but not directly into a chat/team/zone chat, and honestly if a player were going to use a dps meter to link an inflate his ego on his scores he is going to have one of the meters already out.
Epeening snobbery should never be officially facilitated. The unwashed masses are never going to voluntarily exclude themselves from your exalted presence, and you will never be able to forcibly undermine their free will. So you can either suck it up and learn to live with sub-optimal STF runs, or you can form a premade echo chamber and suffer the indignity of having no filthy casuals over which to lord your almighty greatness.
First off grow up and get off your little ego trip of being put down seriously makes you look like a whiny child, or are you just coming out of high school. An you are both making complaint so you both should make pre-mades an leave those that actually can understand that one person's enjoyment should not step on another players enjoyment, most of all in content meant to be done by a group which if you are not contributing enough to is actually impacting their enjoyment of the game. Also you or them not liking casuals or min/maxers is you choosing to segregate yoruself from a group of players by choice, so yeah both of you can go off make your own premades an leave the ques who are fine with playing with players of all styles fro casuals to min/maxers or even epeens.
Second if the system is actually made that it is not able to be shown to other players that do not want to see it, like say it has a dedicated channel/tab to it, than you never need worry about having it affect you more than the meter we already have in game (which would be more an issue as these non-sanctioned meters could be linked into chat as they are now.). Why should your wish to not deal with a meter in game, impact the players that actually derive some enjoyment out of improving themselves via performance meters, most of all one that would be for personal use as the filthy casuals you determined to call them can still chose to elect not to use it.
I have a wife, two kids, and a job which pays very well which I enjoy very much.
I might be a noob at STO but in the Real World I am...drumroll... EPICALLY 1337 'LEET bay-bay!
So, if you ever want to meet girls, I can show you how. It's okay, they don't bite. Mostly. But you're gonna have to shape up some.
First, go take a shower. And, if you can't grow a proper beard, then shave that scraggly, patchy mismatched stuff off. Only one who could ever pull that look off was Shaggy on Scooby Doo. On you, it only frightens small children. Next, put on some clean clothes and come out into the sunlight. Oh and put down those Cheetos and that Java Monster. Lastly, you're going to need a life. I think I have a spare one somewhere you can borrow. I'll expect it back in the same condition I am loaning it to you in.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I have a wife, two kids, and a job which pays very well which I enjoy very much.
I might be a noob at STO but in the Real World I am...drumroll... EPICALLY 1337 'LEET bay-bay!
So, if you ever want to meet girls, I can show you how. It's okay, they don't bite. Mostly. But you're gonna have to shape up some.
First, go take a shower. And, if you can't grow a proper beard, then shave that scraggly, patchy mismatched stuff off. Only one who could ever pull that look off was Shaggy on Scooby Doo. On you, it only frightens small children. Next, put on some clean clothes and come out into the sunlight. Oh and put down those Cheetos and that Java Monster. Lastly, you're going to need a life. I think I have a spare one somewhere you can borrow. I'll expect it back in the same condition I am loaning it to you in.
lol Okay first stop making yourself look like pretentious little prick, unless your wife likes that kind of thing. Good for you for having a life there I mean not that hard even basement dwellers have one actually. Lets talk about that devolving into name calling in a convo when you don't like what you are hearing most people find it in really bad taste. An yeah I have a wife, who gave birth to my sun actually three months ago, been working as a chief for restaurant for about 10 years, with mmos being a happy media to enjoy my down time. Funny part of that is I met my wife in game been married for 10 years so far, so no need to help me there. I got a really active social life when I actually want to go out an be social instead of doing one of my hobbies like hiking, writing, gaming, or just relaxing with my wife an family. You sound like one of those people that looks at someone an thinks they know them in an out just by how they look, surprise most people could careless what you actually think an live happy lives based on what they enjoy so get over thinking you know someone else unless you actually know them.
I love these "I got a life, and no way you can have one since you are not me." types. They crack me up because they make having a life an succeeding at it sound like some grand thing that they should get a medal for, well sorry to tell ya having a life is pretty much the most basic thing an just like here you can't choose what constitutes a good life. Next time show your age and keep the insults and personal attacks out of it, as now your opinion an points are mute as they cann't stand up wihtout you focusing your attention on things you know nothing about.
Comments
1. How fast can you kill one single strong target.
2. How well can you duke it out (survive) against that one single target, such as the Undine, Voth and Borg Queen in Disconnected (normal), the Bulwarks in Disconnected, the tactical cube/gates in Khitomer and Infected or the Vonph Dreadnoughts in Grethor.
3. How fast can you kill and crowd control multiple targets. For example, the several spawning spheres in Khitomer as you attack the transformers, the four groups (two on each side) of Iconian Herald ships in Grethor before the second phase, the groups of ships in Federation Fleet Alert and Starbase Blockade.
4. How well can you stay alive against any of the abovementioned groups before dying.
5. How fast can you converge between each widely spread aforementioned groups of enemies, and how fast can you fly between the two transformers (back and forth) in Khitomer and Infected, and the cubes in Cure etc.
Kill time, survivability and speed will tell you a lot about your build and other people's builds regardless of whether it is science, engineer or tactical oriented. Pay attention to your own build in relation to the PVE environment but also how you are in relation to other player's builds. If you kill faster, survive longer and converge faster between objectives/targets than other players than you are likely better than them, and if there are players who outperform that current build then you know there is still potential room for minor or major improvements.
A parser is just a tool but you don't really need it. The power of observation and deduction can get you extremely far. The next step is looking for gear that complement each other in improving those things you consider yourself lacking in. This is where research comes in and there is an excellent STO gamepedia for this. The game practically presents all the options before you the in form of mission rewards, craftable items, reputation gear and Lobi gear. They are all there in the GUI and the game lists their names and stats. You then look that up and create a chart for yourself of different routes you can go and what it will yield.
And if these things are locked out you first get yourself to level 60 and do all the episodes so that you can see everything, and then you simply search the things you have yet to fully unlock like, "R & D level 15 traits, starship traits list, X Reputation Name sets", and the gamepedia will have excellent collected and structured information about these things.
There's so many things wrong with that statement i will not even begin to point them out.
When you go into a mission such as Korfez and you can't pull at least 10k dps, you have no business being in there and are a drain on the team. People get mad because at the higher levels of difficulty you have to be able to pull a certain amount of damage and survive a certain amount of damage. If you can't then you hold your team back and pretty much guarantee that your team is going to fail. That's not elitism by any means, that's just a fact in the higher difficulty missions. You also don't need the best gear and bust stuff either to pull sufficient numbers. I've seen people pull 25k+ in a nihydron using the plasma-disruptors that you get from the episodes and using just free stuff from the missions. With all of the free stuff that they give you that's really good such as the Kobali set, or other free set from the missions, including some weapons with decent modifiers, there's absolutely no excuse for someone who's played long enough to get to not be able to learn and pull their own weight.
You have to keep in mind that if/when you step into a mission you're not ready for, then you're holding yourself back, but also the 4 other members of that team. Going into missions doesn't just effect you, it effects the team as a whole which is what I can't stress enough. I'm by no means someone who cares about high numbers. In fact I play as more of a tank/battleship. Most people don't expect ub3r l33t numbers, but they do expect that you can at least carry your own weight and have a basic understanding of what's going on. I don't see that as being too much to ask for in the higher difficulties. If you don't know what to do, then speak up and just say it. Most of the time folks will be willing to help you out. There are also videos people have made out there that can explain the fights and so on. Not to mention the briefings they give you explain what to do.
Unless you just absolutely have an off day, are completely new to the game, or Q just decides he hates you and wants you to fail, there's absolutely no excuse for people not to be able to learn with everything out there today.
You might say but Dark what if they're working on their gear, that's the only way they can get the power cells and bnps. However that's not accurate at all. Now you can exchange 100 marks to get a bnp once every 20 hours. Not to mention you can get them from rep boxes. Almost all reputations have some sort of battlezone or questing area you can go to as well to obtain alternative sources of bnps and power cells. You don't need the reputation gear before you can go into missions and stfs, you just don't. Until they can get those reputation sets, they can use one of the free sets such as the Kobali set, Sol Defense, Solanae, Jem'hadar, or Breen Set, just to name a few off the top of my head. Then there's also the Aegis set which is cheap on the exchange. Those 5 sets are free, very good quality, and will do those folks just fine until they're ready to step into advanced and elite. Anymore when people say "well that's the only way I can get the bnps and power cells to improve my gear," it's just an excuse for mediocrity and poor performance.
I get that everyone starts new and we all had to learn at some point. However I knew better than to go into the higher tiers of difficulty before I was ready. With all of the free stuff that they give you that can compete with, and even outperform the rep sets in some cases, there is absolutely no excuse for some of the absolutely abysmal performances that I've seen lately. The sad thing is, it used to not be this bad.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.
You can fit Dual Heavy Cannons on an Atrox, does not mean that it is a smart idea...
Just because someone can queue for an Advanced/Elite queue, doesn't mean that they should.
People with terrible DPS in elite STFs:
There probably should be some sort of gear req at the very least.
People not knowing what to do in Elite STFs:
It is rightly pointed out in here that the normal ones don't exactly prepare you. That is a shame, but the nature of the easier ones is they are easier.
What is amazingly easy though, is to watch someone in a 5 min youtube video show you exactly how to do it. In this digital age people are inexcusably ill-prepared for these things.
and finally... OMFG this guy in my PuG is totally useless... no DPS and no idea what to do:
Thing is, that guy can go around STO blissfully unaware that he is not contributing. Almost certainly in many of the PuG he will, in fact, win. Largely because the other 4 people on the team are carrying him. How would he know that he is the weak link? ... all he knows for sure is that YOU are in one of the ones that is failing.
Solution: Gated Elite queues.
Gated by gear
Gated by accolades for completing lower tiers with all optionals
and finally so the under-performer knows he sucks:
Performance records at the end of matches: healing and dps for example.
I mean, if you look at all the episodes and what not you can have a ton of good gear even without looking at the exchange or the reputation gear. Question is, do people even play those missions or do they dive straight into advanced STFs? If people don't know whether they are good or not at killing mobs they should try out the Tau Dewa missions. Those are excellent for fighting multiple mobs and seeing how fast you move between each group, how fast you can kill multiple targets and also how well you survive having such aggro. And for those who do not know about Tau Dewa, well... it has been mentioned now.
Pretty strong view there. Why di you feel this so strongly? Surely you recognise the game gives no useful feedback to people about their performance.
These things are very useful tools to help develop players in Elite STFs.
Experienced players follow conventions and set strategies to deal with certain aspects of PvE's and STF's - take ISA for example, the accepted routine is to hit the initial cube/spheres, then go left and deal with the cube/spheres the tackle the generators/transformer with at least 1 member delaying the responding nanites.
When inexperienced players or underpowered players are present, several new factors emerge -
We, as experienced players shouldn't be bemoaning that they are there but rather encouraging them and telling them what to do. For example, we have all seen the player who is happily hammering the nanite transformer blissfully unaware that the nanite spheres are healing it faster than they are damaging it - so tell them to take out the nanites. This doesn't need to be done in a fashion which belittles or insults anyone, a simple "get the nanite spheres guys" is enough.
Simple statements which can be taken as a general lets do this and can apply no matter the overall experience of the team are all that are required, even phrasing them as a question - "Left first?" with someone replying "sounds good" should be enough so that inexperienced players realise what is happening.
I assumed that was why, but did not want to presume.
I have no love of the DPS cult either. This who wish to play the game that way can go off and enjoy it. I do not see why adding scores would damage the game in any way. I think there is a role for those meters in Elite STFs. There is certainly a floor below which you are frankly not doing enough.
So much of the game is far too easy... far too easy... and with no source of meaningful feedback players are duped into believing their ships are quite good because they never failed a story mission, and almost never die in them.
All said, I don't care what way it is delivered, I just want to see something in regards to elite queues that says 'sorry, but you are not ready for this yet'.
And just because you resent the inconvenience of your DPS speed run taking longer than a minute, does not mean I should voluntarily segregate myself until you deem me worthy.
Seconded.
Though i would nto mind the option to opt-out of being grouped into stf group with certain players, such as those with either extremely low contribution to the group or just really bad additudes, but i would say that such an opt-out feature should not be permanent but last for a specific period of time an then has to be done again. Like that if you played a stf with a group of players an had a very bad mannered players being able to opt-out of being grouped with that for several weeks would be nice, as than players have a chance to see if these players improve either thier attitude or contribution. This would also give the player a method of controlling their enjoyment of the game even more, by choosing who they are grouped with to a higher degree.
You may be able to queue for an elite match, but I and the other 3 team members in that run also have the right to tell you to step up your game if you're not pulling your own weight. When you queue up for a run you're not ready for in any way, you hold back the other 4 members of your team who must now make up for your lack of ability. If you take a run like Korfez that requires a bare minimum of 10k to clear the first phase, it's a pure gear check. If your team is each pulling 11k and you're only pulling 4k, then that's 2k dps that the team must make up for because you can't pull your own weight, and as such the mission will fail. It's not about "speed runs taking more than a minute" or anything of the such. It's about you or someone else queueing for something they're not ready for and in the process TRIBBLE 4 other people because you're not ready for the content. There is not one legitimate reason as to why 4 other people should have to put up with failed runs just because you wanted to queue for something you clearly weren't ready for. It's just a fact of the game whether you want to acknowledge it or not. There are certain minimums you must be able to do if you want to clear certain parts of the game.
You may not need permission to queue up, but why should the other 4 people have to carry you through the mission because you can't pull your own weight? Like I said, when there are some many free alternatives out there and easy ways to get great quality gear for free from missions, crafting, and so on, there is no excuse to not be able to do the bare minimum. You can call that being an elitist if you wish, but it's the truth that you're refusing to acknowledge for whatever reason. This game doesn't revolve around you, and there are other people that play this besides you. What right do you have to force 4 other people to carry you just because you think you have business in the run and are "allowed to queue."
As I said to the other person I quoted, why should the rest of the team have to put up with and carry people in runs who clearly are not ready? Why should myself and the other 3 guys be punished because our 5th teammate is pulling less than half of what's required and causing us to fail? As for dps meters, why should the rest of us be denied the use of such a useful tool in game simply because YOU have decided they're not needed. If they were to integrate them to the game you don't have to use them. Also if you don't know what you're doing damage wise, or even tank wise, how can you possibly know if you're doing good or need to improve or not? How can you possibly know if you're pulling the minimum required damage for the content or if you're not?
Likewise I could just as easily say, if you can't pull the minimum required damage and survival, stop wasting the time of everyone else in the run because you can't do it and aren't up to par. See what I did there, that logic cuts both ways. As I said to the previous person, there are more people who play this game besides you. Why should the rest of us be punished by being forced to carry people who clearly are not ready for certain content. It's not difficult to obtain gear, or to learn what your abilities do and so on, you just have to be willing to do it. So to paraphrase your statement, please stay out of advanced and elite queues until you can pull the minimum required damage and healing and leave the rest of us alone so we don't have to make up for your inability.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Also, while people catch on when they witness powerful ships move 3-4x times faster than them, kill things many times faster than them and survive hordes of enemies where they cannot, most people don't. The majority of players lack that power of observation and deduction. Moreover, a lot of people don't listen either. If you tell them that you and another buddy in the biggest ship of all, the Vonph Dreadnought that is an entire blob on their radar, will take one side people may still flock around you. This despite being told to fight on the other end. It is not like they don't see you. They just dont catch the hint or drift.
And no, I don't look for quick runs or entirely successful ones. But I think I am within my rights to appreciate and expect some effort from endgame players.
Everyone had to start somewhere, we all did so rather than moaning about them why not actually try to help them. I've lost track of the number of times people have rage-quit ISA because an optional failed. TRIBBLE happens, deal with it and help finish the rest of the run. By quitting you leave any newbies in the run in a worse situation and that's never going to encourage them to improve.
Not every run will go perfectly but the way some people act it's like someone just stabbed them in the eye they TRIBBLE about it so much.
I'd sooner have a few newbies in my team who try to improve than some elitist TRIBBLE who thinks he knows the run off by heart and just goes against the known tactics.
I personally always though that optional objectives in the missions should give a modifier that alters your mark payout at the end, as well as that the opitional missions are how you gain the elite mark payout not just completing the stf, and that the actual amount of base marks you gain is based on your contribution in the stf at large. Though with such a system it would be nice to have the stfs cap output of a ship at a certain amount to make it that over-geared players do not skew the contribution of a team by to much (this should be standard even now. Overgeared players reduce the fun for many other players in the stf. as well as lead to players just afk leeching many times.).
You can tell me whatever you want. What you cannot do is dictate where someone else may queue.
You don't "have to". In fact, you have a way of avoiding this that is 100% effective: Queue with a pre-made team.
This is one thing that always gets ignored whenever DPS is being talked about.
Having massive DPS in the 30-50K+ range is all well and good but if you can't fly for TRIBBLE and aim all that epeen somewhere properly then you are no more use than some newbie who only does 2K.
There is a massive difference between potential DPS and "effective DPS". Effective is being able to aim and fly sensible so that you are not wasting shots, or making sure you are hitting the right targets at the right time. Got watch a too DPS run video and you'll see it's not just about spamming as much damage as possible, there is a lot of perfect positioning and flying going on there.
Trouble is a lot of people think that because they can do a bazillion DPS they are elite, but they fail to realise that going into ISA pugs and spamming that DPS is probably not helping. You'll kill a generator before the rest of the team is ready and you might not have enough DPS alone to kill that transformer. Or you might aggro the wrong enemies and cause half the team to get killed. Or you could get so stuck into attacking something you forget to help your newbie teammate guard the vortex from probes in KSA.
Knowing when to use your build and how is worth a million times more than having some arbitrary DPS number.
Being "good" in this game is about a combination of lots of things; piloting, knowledge of the run, awareness of the rest of the team, awareness of what the enemy is doing, communication, damage output, adaptability, survivability, correct target selection.
But most of that can't be measured by a parser so people often forget about it.
"elite"? all i see written here is arrogance masqurading as reason. you are not really helping the case by basically saying you should join other teams because they got the numbers, as you wrote there you can only do it by trial and error, having a team to help "carry" you along wont help you out in learning the hard way. the only way you learn from stuff is people helping you if you are listen to learn but that is only half the battle, the rest of it is doing this learning without a safety net otherwise you dont learn much at all.
everyone has to learn things the hard way on their own sooner or later.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The party making the complaint can be the one to make the adjustment here. I'm happy to ignore DPS epeeners complaining about optionals and speed runs. That's probably their real complaint, if they were to be honest about it: that nobody is obligated to care what they think.
Epeening snobbery should never be officially facilitated. The unwashed masses are never going to voluntarily exclude themselves from your exalted presence, and you will never be able to forcibly undermine their free will. So you can either suck it up and learn to live with sub-optimal STF runs, or you can form a premade echo chamber and suffer the indignity of having no filthy casuals over which to lord your almighty greatness.
Second if the system is actually made that it is not able to be shown to other players that do not want to see it, like say it has a dedicated channel/tab to it, than you never need worry about having it affect you more than the meter we already have in game (which would be more an issue as these non-sanctioned meters could be linked into chat as they are now.). Why should your wish to not deal with a meter in game, impact the players that actually derive some enjoyment out of improving themselves via performance meters, most of all one that would be for personal use as the filthy casuals you determined to call them can still chose to elect not to use it.
I have a wife, two kids, and a job which pays very well which I enjoy very much.
I might be a noob at STO but in the Real World I am...drumroll... EPICALLY 1337 'LEET bay-bay!
So, if you ever want to meet girls, I can show you how. It's okay, they don't bite. Mostly. But you're gonna have to shape up some.
First, go take a shower. And, if you can't grow a proper beard, then shave that scraggly, patchy mismatched stuff off. Only one who could ever pull that look off was Shaggy on Scooby Doo. On you, it only frightens small children. Next, put on some clean clothes and come out into the sunlight. Oh and put down those Cheetos and that Java Monster. Lastly, you're going to need a life. I think I have a spare one somewhere you can borrow. I'll expect it back in the same condition I am loaning it to you in.
lol Okay first stop making yourself look like pretentious little prick, unless your wife likes that kind of thing. Good for you for having a life there I mean not that hard even basement dwellers have one actually. Lets talk about that devolving into name calling in a convo when you don't like what you are hearing most people find it in really bad taste. An yeah I have a wife, who gave birth to my sun actually three months ago, been working as a chief for restaurant for about 10 years, with mmos being a happy media to enjoy my down time. Funny part of that is I met my wife in game been married for 10 years so far, so no need to help me there. I got a really active social life when I actually want to go out an be social instead of doing one of my hobbies like hiking, writing, gaming, or just relaxing with my wife an family. You sound like one of those people that looks at someone an thinks they know them in an out just by how they look, surprise most people could careless what you actually think an live happy lives based on what they enjoy so get over thinking you know someone else unless you actually know them.
I love these "I got a life, and no way you can have one since you are not me." types. They crack me up because they make having a life an succeeding at it sound like some grand thing that they should get a medal for, well sorry to tell ya having a life is pretty much the most basic thing an just like here you can't choose what constitutes a good life. Next time show your age and keep the insults and personal attacks out of it, as now your opinion an points are mute as they cann't stand up wihtout you focusing your attention on things you know nothing about.