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Star Trek Online 2.0

sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
Recently I've been thinking about some ideas and wishes I had back before the game was even released. So now I would like to discuss about it. I'm aware that there probably were such kind of discussions before, but it never hurts to do it again. So, now I'm asking, if you were to create entirely new Star Trek Online game, what would you want it to be? Which timeline would you set it in? What factions you would have in game? What kind of gameplay would you implement? And so on...

Being the starter of discussion I will naturally present my ideas and visions first.

My STO would be set in prime universe, about 10 years after the movie Nemesis. It would completely ignore everything from alternate universe movies including destruction of Romulus.

There would be 4 primary (starting) factions: Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire (with Remans included) and Cardassian Union
Later possible factions introduced through expansion packs would be: Dominion, Borg, Species 8472, Voth, Krenim, Hirogen and Tholians

Every faction would have its own storyline (there would be occasional missions/story arcs in which some of the factions would share storyline) and not all of them would be ''good guys''. So in essence every faction would have its own agendas and goals which would affect the game.
Besides that each faction would have 4 different careers and each career would have it's own storyline as well. Careers in this case would not mean profession as the professions would be completely different thing. I'll explain that a bit more in detail.

Federation careers:

Starfleet officer - As we have in current STO, you would be one of the many officers serving in the Starfleet and commanding your vessel when you reach certain rank (I will explain this about certain rank later)
Starfleet outlaw - Starfleet officers gone rogue that do not follow traditional rules of Starfleet/Federation and obtain their ships/equipment by various ways (most usually by pirating). You can't choose this career from the very start, but you can do it as soon as you get promoted to the rank of Lieutenant.
Section 31 member - I don't think this needs explaining, but in this case you would be special branch of Starfleet officers who do not need to follow the Starfleet/Federation rules by the book, but are mostly expected to follow them (in case you break to many rules you could become Starfleet outlaw). Same as it is for Starfleet outlaw, you cannot choose this path from the start until you reach rank of Lieutenant.
Independent Federation Citizen (IFC) - You may do anything you like as long as you follow Federation rules within Federation space (as soon as you are out from the Federation space those rules do not apply anymore) and you have no ties to Starfleet (IFC may switch to any of the above mentioned careers and vice versa). Since IFCs doesn't have any rank, they require certain amount of reputation points in order to be able to become Starfleet officers or S31 members if they want to and to progress further in game (get new starships/equipment, skills, traits and so on)

Klingon careers:

Klingon Defense Forces officers/Soldiers of the Empire - Same as for Federation.
Klingon renegades - Again same as the Federation.
Order of Kahless members - Klingon version of Section 31.
Citizens of the Empire - Same as IFCs in Starfleet.

Romulan careers:

Romulan Star Empire officers - Just like the first careers for Federation and Klingon Empire.
Romulan rogues - Same as Federation outlaws and Klingon renegades.
Tal Shiar officers - Romulan secret service operative (like members of Federation and Klingon secret service counterparts)
Romulan citizens - Romulan version of independent citizens

Cardassian careers:

Cardassian Military officers - Same as the first careers of factions above.
Cardassian rebels - Just like Federation outlaws/Klingon renegades/Romulan rogues.
Obsidian order members - Cardassian version of secret service (intelligence) career.
Citizens of the Union - Just like their independent counterparts from above mentioned factions.

Now that I have established careers I will go onto professions which are pretty much the same for all of the above factions:

Commanding officer
Tactical officer
Security officer
Engineering officer
Science officer
Medical officer
Operations officer
Helm officer
Temporal agent
Demolitions officer
Reconnaissance officer/Scout
Ambassador
Trader
Pirate

Every profession would have its own skills and traits. Some things would be only available for certain professions (like for example: only commanding officer would be able to get the rank of Admiral). A player would be able to choose/combine up to 3 different professions, however some abilities/skills would remain unavailable to officers with combined professions in order to maintain balance.

The ranks would be much harder to earn and maximum rank would be Fleet captain/Admiral. Also getting new rank would not necessarily guarantee acquisition of new starship and vice versa. Also the top 3 ranks would have ability to command fleets of certain size.

These would be ranks in game:

Cadet - Player starts with this rank and as such is unable to be in command of starship. Until gaining rank of Lieutenant Junior grade player will serve aboard designated starship/station as one of her bridge officers and stationed depending on his profession and career, or he will simply start his career from his faction's home planet if he chooses to be independent citizen.
Ensign - Player is able to get in command of certain type of Shuttlecraft/Runabout depending on his/her profession, or may choose to get bridge officers' station on better vessel.
Lieutenant Junior grade - Player is able to get in command of Fighter/Light Freighter depending on his/her profession, or may choose to get bridge officers' station on better vessel.
Lieutenant - Player can now get in command of Frigate, Medium Freighter, Light Scout ship, Light Raider or Light Minelayer depending on his/her profession, or he/she can also choose boff station on even better vessel.
Lieutenant Commander - Player is able to get in command of Destroyer, Heavy Freighter, Medium Scout ship, Medium Raider or Medium Minelayer depending of profession. He/she can also choose boff station on more powerful vessel.
Commander - Player may get in command of Cruiser, Super-heavy freighter, Heavy Scout ship, Heavy Raider or Heavy Minelayer depending of profession. Also this is the last rank which grants player to choose boff stations on starships, or in this case on top of the line starships.
Captain - Player can get in command of Battlecruiser, Battleship or Light Carrier depending on his/her profession. This is also the first rank in which player has the ability to command small fleets (task forces).
Fleet Captain - Player is able to get in command of top of the line starships including Dreadnoughts and Heavy Carriers. He/she is also granted ability to command medium sized fleets (task forces) and switch to different ship if wants.
Admiral (Commanding officer profession only) - With this unique rank player is granted ability to command large fleets (task forces) and even to command stations. Besides that he/she can also get in command of Dreadnought Carriers - the most powerful ships in the fleet.

When it comes to ship types these are the ones I came up with:

Shuttlecraft/Runabout - Starting ships for players who have at least rank of Ensign.
Fighter/Light Freighter - Players can get in command of these ships after reaching rank of Lieutenant Junior grade.
Frigate/Medium Freighter/Light Scout ship/Light Raider/Light Minelayer - Players can get access to these vessels by gaining rank of Lieutenant.
Destroyer/Heavy Freighter/Medium Scout ship/Medium Raider/Medium Minelayer - By gaining rank of Lieutenant Commander players acquire access to these vessels.
Cruiser/Super-heavy freighter/Heavy Scout ship/Heavy Raider/Heavy Minelayer - Players get access to these ships after gaining rank of Commander.
Battlecruiser/Battleship/Light Carrier - Players gain command of these vessels by reaching Captain rank.
Dreadnought/Heavy Carrier - After reaching rank of Fleet Captain player gain access to these top of the line vessels.
Dreadnought Carrier - Special type of ships only available for players with Admiral's rank.

Speaking of ships instead of them having limited number of slots in which you could put either beam, projectile, mine or cannon weapon, my ships would have defined slots for each of them. So you couldn't put cannons in place where torpedo launchers should be and vice versa.
The more powerful ship would have more slots and in addition better equipment could be mounted on it which means you could never put mk XII phaser arrays on fighters for example.

And when it comes to weapons and equipment, in my STO every faction would have its own which means for example you couldn't mount romulan plasma torpedo on federation vessels and vice versa. You could only do it for some of the special missions or if you obtain other factions' weapon/equipment you would be able to equip your ship with only one of such. It may seem like a lot of restriction, but it would keep the factions, ships and their equipment unique.

Speaking of map they would be more realistic with real sized planets and stars and you would be able to truly feel warp/transwarp/QSD speed when going from one system to another and there would be no transition loading. So in essence you could go through entire map without being interrupted and you would truly feel the vastness of space. There would be also a lot of unexplored space for those who like exploration and random missions as well.


I think I have wrote enough for now, and I would like to hear your ideas as well and what do you think about my concept?


FED ENG: FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC: ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta): LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member
SZ1RgUL.jpg
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    The destruction of Romulus happened before the alt-u did. Sorry, it's canon and it's Prime.
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    sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The destruction of Romulus happened before the alt-u did. Sorry, it's canon and it's Prime.

    Where exactly? I'm pretty certain it was never stated in Nemesis movie and it was in ST 2009., but I don't count that as relevant.

    FED ENG: FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC: ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta): LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member
    SZ1RgUL.jpg
    SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
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    mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    jonsills wrote: »
    The destruction of Romulus happened before the alt-u did. Sorry, it's canon and it's Prime.

    Where exactly? I'm pretty certain it was never stated in Nemesis movie and it was in ST 2009., but I don't count that as relevant.

    I wouldn't have been stated in Nemesis because it took place after Nemesis. The destruction of Romulus happened on screen, in an official production. It's canon.

    You can't cherry-pick what you want in canon. None of us can. Enterprise is canon. Neelix is canon. "Profit and Lace" is canon. And, yes, things in the "JJverse" are canon (Hobus, Romulus, the Kelvin, the Jellyfish, the Narada, etc.).

    You can't take an eraser to the Abrams films, just because you don't like them. Sorry.
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    moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    So basically you just want STO now, but overcomplicated, unnecessarily cluttered mechanically and ignoring a third of canon because JJ Abrams?
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    ajalenajalen Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.
    The destruction of Vulcan is canon - in the alternate timeline created by Nero's and Spock's time travel. Romulus was destroyed in the Prime timeline, and was in fact the causative factor for Nero's actions (and, indirectly, Spock's temporal shenanigans).

    Are diagrams required at this point? I know my roommate has trouble with multiple timelines and doubling back (it was hard explaining to him how the last part of the TNG finale took place in a later era than any of the movies thus far, and in a timeline that now will probably not take place because part of its origin was Q's "final exam" for Picard).
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    ajalen wrote: »
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO
    Please point me toward a canon source claiming the Klingons were ever "bloodthirsty". In TOS they were sneaky, underhanded warriors, but they'd really prefer others surrender to them rather than fighting them - they were trying to expand an empire, after all. In TNG and later, they were sometimes characterized as "a Viking biker gang", ready to fight at the drop of a hat, but not "bloodthirsty" in the sense of slaughtering civilian populations (there's no honor in killing those who can't fight back, after all). Outside of some (IMO rather poor) novels, however, they were never anywhere near as vicious as certain of Earth's own privateers.
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    sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    mhall85 wrote: »
    I wouldn't have been stated in Nemesis because it took place after Nemesis. The destruction of Romulus happened on screen, in an official production. It's canon.

    You can't cherry-pick what you want in canon. None of us can. Enterprise is canon. Neelix is canon. "Profit and Lace" is canon. And, yes, things in the "JJverse" are canon (Hobus, Romulus, the Kelvin, the Jellyfish, the Narada, etc.).

    You can't take an eraser to the Abrams films, just because you don't like them. Sorry.

    I don't say it would erase Abrams films, but it would just ignore them.
    So basically you just want STO now, but overcomplicated, unnecessarily cluttered mechanically and ignoring a third of canon because JJ Abrams?

    Nope. I think that STO as it is now is overcomplicated and mine while it would maintain some complexity it would also be much simpler and more realistic, or better said more in line with what we were able to see on screen (excluding Abrams movies ofc).
    So in my version of STO you wouldn't be able to see majority of ships from every possible faction using antiproton beams/cannons and there would be no beam/cannon only boats (hence the separate slots for energy/projectile weapons). So yeah if you ask me some restrictions are necessary to keep the gameplay more diverse. And when I mentioned commanding fleet I meant it would be physically done and not just like doffing assignments. Also as you could have seen there would be no hundreds of different ship types (I'm not talking about ship classes here so don't mix those two), but rather this several I mentioned in my OP. Pretty much everything I listed in my post is how I imagined that STO would be. That doesn't mean I don't like current STO (I would not play it if I didn't like it at all), but I do think it could have been better. So while it is good now, it is not great. It is as simple as that. If I'm going to described in most simple way what I would like that STO is, I would say that it should be combination of ST Bridge Commander, Starfleet Command 3, Armada, Freelancer and Mass Effect.
    ajalen wrote: »
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO

    Well Romulans still have Tal Shiar and Federation S31 as well if you haven't noticed, so there is no reason why Cardassians shouldn't have their own intelligence/secret service. And I couldn't come up with some other name at the time.

    I like that you think at least some of my ideas are good, and yeah those 2 are good examples of what my STO would be.
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.

    Exactly! But the problem is that people will now say that when it comes to Vulcan that its destruction only applies to alternate universe. So they'll basically use this argument only when it suits them well. I have couple of close friends who say that destruction of Romulus is complete and utter TRIBBLE and I must admit I agree with them. Hasn't the destruction/slaughter of their Senate been enough?! Obviously it wasn't for producers of ST 2009.
    FED ENG: FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC: ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta): LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member
    SZ1RgUL.jpg
    SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
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    sevenofnine13141sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,272 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.
    Secondly, this post...
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.
    Seriously? Destruction of Vulcan happened in the Alternate Universe, NOT THE PRIME UNIVERSE.
    Where exactly? I'm pretty certain it was never stated in Nemesis movie and it was in ST 2009., but I don't count that as relevant.
    I point to you on this.
    Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.
    I rest my case.
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    sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.

    You're wrong. I just read on memory alpha that ST Countdown is not considered canon therefore your argument holds water like a bucket without bottom.

    Anyways, what's up with all the critics (well, mostly critics)? Does anyone likes anything of my ideas or thinks he/she can contribute to discussion? I'm fine with critics, but when there is nothing besides them, people tend to get disappointed and so do I.
    FED ENG: FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC: ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta): LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member
    SZ1RgUL.jpg
    SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
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    khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    The Prime universe covers everything up to Nero and Spock being sucked into the black hole.....so in the Prime universe Romulus is destroyed.
    Once Nero arrives in the past and destroys the Kelvin...it caused ripples in the space-time continuum that create an alternate timeline...where things happened differently than in TOS.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    hmm... when you have that many professions.... I think it'd work best as skill point choices.

    I kinda have to wonder if it'd end up being less fun overall. :/

    also, it needs Dominion faction. :p
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    sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    hmm... when you have that many professions.... I think it'd work best as skill point choices.

    I kinda have to wonder if it'd end up being less fun overall. :/

    also, it needs Dominion faction. :p

    More professions gives more diversity. And combinations of them are even more fun. I wonder why in STO they never tried to make combinations of existing professions (tactical engineer, or science engineer for example). In Mass Effect you can do it (Soldier/Biotic for exaplem is my current character), so I really don't understand why they haven't given us that option already.

    Trust me it would be more in the end that way.

    As for Dominion faction I stated that it would come as expansion (and most probably the first one as well).
    FED ENG: FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC: ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta): LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member
    SZ1RgUL.jpg
    SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
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    sevenofnine13141sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,272 Arc User
    Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.

    You're wrong. I just read on memory alpha that ST Countdown is not considered canon therefore your argument holds water like a bucket without bottom.

    Anyways, what's up with all the critics (well, mostly critics)? Does anyone likes anything of my ideas or thinks he/she can contribute to discussion? I'm fine with critics, but when there is nothing besides them, people tend to get disappointed and so do I.

    ... Wiki's can be edited by ANYONE. ST Countdown is a prelude to the 2009 film and also depicts events in Prime Universe. The Path to 2409 also supports that. Therefore, it is part of the lore.
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    semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    While interesting your career list has 1 massive flaw. You limited ships to a single career (Command Officer) sadly Any game that has done this has everyone gravitate to it like moths to a flame(Cough Cough Tactical) Limiting Dreads and other large ships as well as all the large command powers to a single class is like saying "hey look at this it's OP use it now!" and people always go for that.
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    mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    Okay, first off, the destruction of Romulus happened in both the 2009 movie as a flashback set in Prime, while the actual events prior to and during the Hobus Supernova as well as the aftermath, was depicted in the officially published book called Countdown. Which is confirmed to be CANON.

    You're wrong. I just read on memory alpha that ST Countdown is not considered canon therefore your argument holds water like a bucket without bottom.

    Anyways, what's up with all the critics (well, mostly critics)? Does anyone likes anything of my ideas or thinks he/she can contribute to discussion? I'm fine with critics, but when there is nothing besides them, people tend to get disappointed and so do I.

    You're completely ignoring the fact that Romulus' destruction was shown on-screen, explained by Prime Universe Spock. Anything taken from Countdown is just icing on the cake.

    As far as the "confusion" about the destruction of Vulcan... the TNG episode "Parallels" explains the existence of quantum realities. The Mirror Universe is the best known example of this, as well, but "Parallels" showed us an infinite number of universes with nuance and differentiation. Suffice to say, the rift created by the red matter device pushed Nero and Prime Spock into a different quantum reality... a reality in which Vulcan was destroyed in the 2250's. It's no different than the quantum reality that showed the Borg steamrolling the Federation in the 2360's, or again, the Mirror Universe.

    Now, you can ignore canon... but, you're already putting your game idea on a shaky foundation. And, if you decide to incorporate the Mirror Universe into the game, but ignore the Abrams quantum universe... you're cherry-picking, at that point. You can't pretend to be Prime Universe without accepting that Romulus is gone.
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    spiritwalker1969spiritwalker1969 Member Posts: 406 Arc User

    mhall85 wrote: »
    I wouldn't have been stated in Nemesis because it took place after Nemesis. The destruction of Romulus happened on screen, in an official production. It's canon.

    You can't cherry-pick what you want in canon. None of us can. Enterprise is canon. Neelix is canon. "Profit and Lace" is canon. And, yes, things in the "JJverse" are canon (Hobus, Romulus, the Kelvin, the Jellyfish, the Narada, etc.).

    You can't take an eraser to the Abrams films, just because you don't like them. Sorry.

    I don't say it would erase Abrams films, but it would just ignore them.
    So basically you just want STO now, but overcomplicated, unnecessarily cluttered mechanically and ignoring a third of canon because JJ Abrams?

    Nope. I think that STO as it is now is overcomplicated and mine while it would maintain some complexity it would also be much simpler and more realistic, or better said more in line with what we were able to see on screen (excluding Abrams movies ofc).
    So in my version of STO you wouldn't be able to see majority of ships from every possible faction using antiproton beams/cannons and there would be no beam/cannon only boats (hence the separate slots for energy/projectile weapons). So yeah if you ask me some restrictions are necessary to keep the gameplay more diverse. And when I mentioned commanding fleet I meant it would be physically done and not just like doffing assignments. Also as you could have seen there would be no hundreds of different ship types (I'm not talking about ship classes here so don't mix those two), but rather this several I mentioned in my OP. Pretty much everything I listed in my post is how I imagined that STO would be. That doesn't mean I don't like current STO (I would not play it if I didn't like it at all), but I do think it could have been better. So while it is good now, it is not great. It is as simple as that. If I'm going to described in most simple way what I would like that STO is, I would say that it should be combination of ST Bridge Commander, Starfleet Command 3, Armada, Freelancer and Mass Effect.
    ajalen wrote: »
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO

    Well Romulans still have Tal Shiar and Federation S31 as well if you haven't noticed, so there is no reason why Cardassians shouldn't have their own intelligence/secret service. And I couldn't come up with some other name at the time.

    I like that you think at least some of my ideas are good, and yeah those 2 are good examples of what my STO would be.
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.

    Exactly! But the problem is that people will now say that when it comes to Vulcan that its destruction only applies to alternate universe. So they'll basically use this argument only when it suits them well. I have couple of close friends who say that destruction of Romulus is complete and utter TRIBBLE and I must admit I agree with them. Hasn't the destruction/slaughter of their Senate been enough?! Obviously it wasn't for producers of ST 2009.

    Everyone is wrong ... JJTrek does not exist and in fact will be it's own undoing. The JJTrek alternative timeline/universe will be the cause of it's own failure to propogate.
    As events unfold, we shall reach the point where assuming Spock doesn't change what happens, Hobus will explode and destroy Romulus. Nero(alt) will get his knickers in a twist and cause Spock(alt) and himself to be thrown back in time to replay the events of alt-history. However this will cause (i) Nero(alt) to fail because Nero(prime) destroys Vulcan thus stalling the timeline or (ii) Nero(prime) to fail due to Nero(alt) having destroyed Vulcan thus creating a paradox which because Nero(prime) fails to destroy Vulcan will negate the timeline and reboot the Prime Universe with Vulcan still in existence (and JJTrek consigned to the cutting room floor).

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    mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited February 2016
    mhall85 wrote: »
    I wouldn't have been stated in Nemesis because it took place after Nemesis. The destruction of Romulus happened on screen, in an official production. It's canon.

    You can't cherry-pick what you want in canon. None of us can. Enterprise is canon. Neelix is canon. "Profit and Lace" is canon. And, yes, things in the "JJverse" are canon (Hobus, Romulus, the Kelvin, the Jellyfish, the Narada, etc.).

    You can't take an eraser to the Abrams films, just because you don't like them. Sorry.

    I don't say it would erase Abrams films, but it would just ignore them.
    So basically you just want STO now, but overcomplicated, unnecessarily cluttered mechanically and ignoring a third of canon because JJ Abrams?

    Nope. I think that STO as it is now is overcomplicated and mine while it would maintain some complexity it would also be much simpler and more realistic, or better said more in line with what we were able to see on screen (excluding Abrams movies ofc).
    So in my version of STO you wouldn't be able to see majority of ships from every possible faction using antiproton beams/cannons and there would be no beam/cannon only boats (hence the separate slots for energy/projectile weapons). So yeah if you ask me some restrictions are necessary to keep the gameplay more diverse. And when I mentioned commanding fleet I meant it would be physically done and not just like doffing assignments. Also as you could have seen there would be no hundreds of different ship types (I'm not talking about ship classes here so don't mix those two), but rather this several I mentioned in my OP. Pretty much everything I listed in my post is how I imagined that STO would be. That doesn't mean I don't like current STO (I would not play it if I didn't like it at all), but I do think it could have been better. So while it is good now, it is not great. It is as simple as that. If I'm going to described in most simple way what I would like that STO is, I would say that it should be combination of ST Bridge Commander, Starfleet Command 3, Armada, Freelancer and Mass Effect.
    ajalen wrote: »
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO

    Well Romulans still have Tal Shiar and Federation S31 as well if you haven't noticed, so there is no reason why Cardassians shouldn't have their own intelligence/secret service. And I couldn't come up with some other name at the time.

    I like that you think at least some of my ideas are good, and yeah those 2 are good examples of what my STO would be.
    adamkafei wrote: »
    It's all well and good to say the destruction of Romulus is canon, but if it is, then so is the destruction of Vulcan in the TOS era. As such I feel the need to point out that it's still here in STO.

    Exactly! But the problem is that people will now say that when it comes to Vulcan that its destruction only applies to alternate universe. So they'll basically use this argument only when it suits them well. I have couple of close friends who say that destruction of Romulus is complete and utter TRIBBLE and I must admit I agree with them. Hasn't the destruction/slaughter of their Senate been enough?! Obviously it wasn't for producers of ST 2009.

    Everyone is wrong ... JJTrek does not exist and in fact will be it's own undoing. The JJTrek alternative timeline/universe will be the cause of it's own failure to propogate.
    As events unfold, we shall reach the point where assuming Spock doesn't change what happens, Hobus will explode and destroy Romulus. Nero(alt) will get his knickers in a twist and cause Spock(alt) and himself to be thrown back in time to replay the events of alt-history. However this will cause (i) Nero(alt) to fail because Nero(prime) destroys Vulcan thus stalling the timeline or (ii) Nero(prime) to fail due to Nero(alt) having destroyed Vulcan thus creating a paradox which because Nero(prime) fails to destroy Vulcan will negate the timeline and reboot the Prime Universe with Vulcan still in existence (and JJTrek consigned to the cutting room floor).

    You're forgetting something... and I'm about to use STO's storyline as a basis (I know, STO isn't canon, but a writer could easily make the same conclusions in canon)...

    This whole chain begins with the Enterprise-C and Narendra III:
    • Romulan weapons fire inadvertently causes a rift in the space-time continuum, pushing the Enterprise-C 20 years into the future.
    • In the altered timeline, Jean-Luc Picard sends Natasha Yar back with the 1701-C, restoring the timeline... sort of.
    • Once returned, the 1701-C is captured, Yar is knocked up by a Romulan, and Sela is born.
    • Cut to 2409, and the Iconians return. Pew pew ensues.
    • In 2410, Sela and others go back in time 200,000 years to prevent the Iconians from returning.
    • In the process of this, the plans change, but Sela attacks the Iconians. They vow revenge.
    • In 2387, the Hobus star is destroyed by the Iconians. Romulus go boom, Spock and Nero go bye-bye.

    Once Spock and Nero enter the new quantum reality, they enter a points before the Enterprise-C was even built. The so-called "butterfly effect" can easily wipe away the entire chain described above.

    TL;DR... nice try, but NOPE. :smiley:
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    Spiritwalker, you assume that the Hobus supernova is either a natural event, or happens due to unfolding factors that are not changed by the change in history. I find this to be an unjustified assumption.

    In-game, the propagation of the Hobus supernova shockwave through subspace, devastating worlds lightyears away from the event and in a matter of weeks rather than centuries, was the result of Iconian suborning of major players in the Tal'Shiar. In this alternate timeline, it's quite possible that either the Galaxy-class USS Yamato is never constructed, or never finds itself following that meteor to Iconia; thus, the Iconians would remain in the stasis they selected for themselves, never being awakened by their servitor races to defend their ancient home.

    It's easy to construct other alternate effects that would prevent the supernova - for instance, the event might well have been due to Soran's disruption of the path of the Nexus through the galaxy. In this case, since the laissez-faire Starfleet we're familiar with from TNG is probably disrupted by the more warlike path they took in the mid-23rd century (under the influence of Adm. Marcus), Soran will probably be unable to acquire large amounts of trilithium resin for his little project. Thus, the Nexus continues on its normal path, the interstellar "weather" patterns remain unmolested, and Hobus might well survive for aeons longer (normal stellar lifespans are measured in millions or billions of years).

    Even if the supernova is natural and unaffected by the Nexus, there's no way you're ever going to convince me its ability to destroy worlds located dozens or hundreds of lightyears away is natural. And anything technological in origin is going to be altered by the powerful shift in astropolitics caused by the mere presence of the Narada in the 23rd Century.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    semalda226 wrote: »
    While interesting your career list has 1 massive flaw. You limited ships to a single career (Command Officer) sadly Any game that has done this has everyone gravitate to it like moths to a flame(Cough Cough Tactical) Limiting Dreads and other large ships as well as all the large command powers to a single class is like saying "hey look at this it's OP use it now!" and people always go for that.
    Yeah, having unique things that each class has is one thing, but... you don't want to go overboard. requiring a specific class to use the biggest ships is dumb.
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    My character Tsin'xing
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    spiritwalker1969spiritwalker1969 Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Spiritwalker, you assume that the Hobus supernova is either a natural event, or happens due to unfolding factors that are not changed by the change in history. I find this to be an unjustified assumption.

    In-game, the propagation of the Hobus supernova shockwave through subspace, devastating worlds lightyears away from the event and in a matter of weeks rather than centuries, was the result of Iconian suborning of major players in the Tal'Shiar. In this alternate timeline, it's quite possible that either the Galaxy-class USS Yamato is never constructed, or never finds itself following that meteor to Iconia; thus, the Iconians would remain in the stasis they selected for themselves, never being awakened by their servitor races to defend their ancient home.

    It's easy to construct other alternate effects that would prevent the supernova - for instance, the event might well have been due to Soran's disruption of the path of the Nexus through the galaxy. In this case, since the laissez-faire Starfleet we're familiar with from TNG is probably disrupted by the more warlike path they took in the mid-23rd century (under the influence of Adm. Marcus), Soran will probably be unable to acquire large amounts of trilithium resin for his little project. Thus, the Nexus continues on its normal path, the interstellar "weather" patterns remain unmolested, and Hobus might well survive for aeons longer (normal stellar lifespans are measured in millions or billions of years).

    Even if the supernova is natural and unaffected by the Nexus, there's no way you're ever going to convince me its ability to destroy worlds located dozens or hundreds of lightyears away is natural. And anything technological in origin is going to be altered by the powerful shift in astropolitics caused by the mere presence of the Narada in the 23rd Century.

    I totally agree with your reasoning and of course given the infinite number of possibilities it can be speculated that under certain conditions where the Hobus disaster occurs and is propogated through subspace that the deciding factor will be when the Narada arrives in the past. For example, First Contact could be altered so that Humans are subjugated by the Klingon Empire in the 21st Century or the Enterprise-E might be commanded by a less strong-minded individual and not travel back to prevent the Borg assimilation of 21st Century Earth creating yet another reality.

    As a Vulcan would say "infinite diversity in infinite combinations"
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    ajalenajalen Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    jonsills wrote: »
    ajalen wrote: »
    Cardasians have Obsidian Order

    but i like few parts from OP idea , like 4 factions and more diversity in player career ,for example interpendent ferengi trader / pirate ........or real , bloodthirsty Klingon , not FED-like nice guy like in STO
    Please point me toward a canon source claiming the Klingons were ever "bloodthirsty". In TOS they were sneaky, underhanded warriors, but they'd really prefer others surrender to them rather than fighting them - they were trying to expand an empire, after all. In TNG and later, they were sometimes characterized as "a Viking biker gang", ready to fight at the drop of a hat, but not "bloodthirsty" in the sense of slaughtering civilian populations (there's no honor in killing those who can't fight back, after all). Outside of some (IMO rather poor) novels, however, they were never anywhere near as vicious as certain of Earth's own privateers.

    just a litte joke , i love Klingons ...... i m just a bit angry when i must ( as klingon in STO ) do things which are ..... how to say .....too civilised / soft for true (cannon) Klingon .....
    as i say several times , Klingons have interstellar empire BEFORE they have word "sorry" in dictionary ( thats cannon , ENT , Broken Bow ) ......

    ps ......
    Klingon Bird of Prey dont attack Gul Dukat freighter because they dont consider him as worthly foe , that is "good" point of viev about klingons

    but is there also slighty less nice PoV , when Worf warn Sisko before possible cloaked Klingon ship near damaged Carrdassian ( i think ) ship ..........waiting for someone who come help ....."In war is nothing more honourable than victory"


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    azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    Temporal what if:

    JJ verse version of Annorax develops his time eraser ship, fires it at the hobus star...

    What does that do?
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    spiritwalker1969spiritwalker1969 Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    azniadeet wrote: »
    Temporal what if:

    JJ verse version of Annorax develops his time eraser ship, fires it at the hobus star...

    What does that do?

    Possibly nothing, removes the star and causes a few navigational errors .... or since we don't actually know anything except that the supernova was aided by "unknown" means then it could mean that the whole shebang kicks off early.

    The possibilities are infinite, since as jonsills points out above the assumption that Hobus actually goes supernova in the JJverse can't be made as the timeline is markedly different from the moment the Narada emerges in the past. It is possible that Picard never commands the Enterprise or amounts to anything greater than the Admiral's teaboy thus removing Shinzon from the equation and therefore the Romulan Star Empire takes a different path which negates the whole Hobus scenario.

    Would New Romulus then exist or would the Solanae Gateway be discovered and subsequently the Jenolan Sphere be rediscovered?
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    The critical thing to keep in mind when we fantasize over a Star Trek Online 2.0 - if we want to be half-way realistic about it, we have to expect that CBS and/or Paramount will have a say in the kind of material we can and we have use. Most likely that will not lead to the cherry-picking and head canon options we usually have.
    We will probably be able to lead the universe in a direction we want, but the past, as it is set by canon, will likely be set in stone.

    The thing to keep in mind is that any Star Trek game will also be an opportunity to advertise the setting and all its features, to optimize the potential of getting people to buy other Star Trek brand material.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    spiritwalker1969spiritwalker1969 Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    The critical thing to keep in mind when we fantasize over a Star Trek Online 2.0 - if we want to be half-way realistic about it, we have to expect that CBS and/or Paramount will have a say in the kind of material we can and we have use. Most likely that will not lead to the cherry-picking and head canon options we usually have.
    We will probably be able to lead the universe in a direction we want, but the past, as it is set by canon, will likely be set in stone.

    The thing to keep in mind is that any Star Trek game will also be an opportunity to advertise the setting and all its features, to optimize the potential of getting people to buy other Star Trek brand material.

    To be honest could you actually imagine the firestorm that the forums would become, everyone and their grandmother would be moaning that (i) A particular ship was missing, (ii) the Sol system was still in the wrong place, (iii) this feature hasn't been ported across, (iv) why can't I login using my mac, (v) the Scimitar(s) are overpowered, (vi) I wanted to play a [insert neglected race here], (vii) why is Q not John de Lancie and why is he wearing that judges robe etc etc.

    Then just to add to the fun .... the server would get DDoSed :smile:

    Edit: Trendy would suffer a ban-hammer failure induced memory loss and forget all about bacon ... imagine the hell we would inhabit if this happened

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    jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The destruction of Romulus happened before the alt-u did. Sorry, it's canon and it's Prime.

    Idc if it was JJVerse or prime i like the destruction of romulus, the reason is it moved the romulans story forward as a culture and species, it allowed them to grow beyond their xenophobic ,sycophants and trappings of empire.

    I for one loved LoR i think it was and still is the best work cryptic has done to date.
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Fingers crossed for prime or mirror universe setting
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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