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“Change is the essential process of all existence.” – Spock

T6 Defiant=Total Fail

brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
No pilot mechanics or even a battle cloak with a 4/3 weapon layout? I was completely looking forward to dropping cash on this ship and now it's another swing and a miss from Cryptic. You guys are wasting Thomas's time designing new ship models.
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Comments

  • stardestroyer3stardestroyer3 Posts: 18Member Arc User
    Why should the Defiant have either of the former two? Pilot mechanics belong to the pilot escorts, and Feds have never had battle cloaks, right? Why should this be different?
  • nikephorusnikephorus Posts: 1,415Member Arc User
    Honestly, all escorts should have gotten the pilot abilities. As it is right now no escorts match the pilot ships. It's basically pointless to get those other escorts unless you're a fan any really like the way they look.
    eyes.jpg
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Posts: 795Member Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Yeah, the OP whining and declaring the new Defiant a "total fail" for failing to have two features it was never going to have to begin with is pretty ridiculous.

    I just looked at the stats and all three of the ships sound like good, solid escorts.
    nikephorus wrote: »
    Honestly, all escorts should have gotten the pilot abilities. As it is right now no escorts match the pilot ships. It's basically pointless to get those other escorts unless you're a fan any really like the way they look.

    I still see plenty of non-pilot escort ships that are preposterously destructive. You are basically now nitpicking over infinitesimal differences in arcane values.
    Post edited by sorceror01 on
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • nikephorusnikephorus Posts: 1,415Member Arc User
    They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
    eyes.jpg
  • brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
    stardestroyer3 wrote: »
    Why should the Defiant have either of the former two? Pilot mechanics belong to the pilot escorts, and Feds have never had battle cloaks, right? Why should this be different?
    So you're saying you can never ever innovate? Because the previous ship was a certain way then any new version must be just like it? They are asking people for 3000 zen for a ship that out of the gate is worse than the Phantom and Tac pilot ship and you're reasoning is because the old defiant was built this way the new one should be as well.

  • sorceror01sorceror01 Posts: 795Member Arc User
    edited November 2015
    nikephorus wrote: »
    They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.

    Only in maneuverability, foreward facing weapon slots notwithstanding. Honestly, a 5/2 weapon arrangement is not even a deal at all considering the prevalence of turrets and cannon weapons on most escort-piloting DPSers. Like, it boils down to "Oh, where should I mount this third or fourth turret I have? The front or the back? Not like it matters, as it has a 360 field of fire".
    brakkenn wrote: »
    stardestroyer3 wrote: »
    Why should the Defiant have either of the former two? Pilot mechanics belong to the pilot escorts, and Feds have never had battle cloaks, right? Why should this be different?
    So you're saying you can never ever innovate? Because the previous ship was a certain way then any new version must be just like it? They are asking people for 3000 zen for a ship that out of the gate is worse than the Phantom and Tac pilot ship and you're reasoning is because the old defiant was built this way the new one should be as well.
    And making every escort that comes out after those two ships, exactly like their predecessors, is innovative how? Because homogeny sounds like the opposite of innovative.
    Not a one of these ships is superior to the other when hard numbers are boiled down, because they are all designed to have differing nuances to their function.
    The Pilot escorts are meant to be ultra-agile, but very fragile.
    The Intel escorts are meant to apply various CC and debuff powers to an otherwise heavily offensively-oriented ship.
    The T6 Tactical Escorts are basically the upgraded versions of the "middle ground". They're back to basics, no frills escort ships.
    Post edited by sorceror01 on
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • nikephorusnikephorus Posts: 1,415Member Arc User
    I'm not debating killing potential. I'm saying the pilot ship's are superior based on their pilot abilities, which can make the ship's invincible. If you believe that assessment is incorrect then please correct me with some facts as to why the defiant is superior.
    eyes.jpg
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Posts: 2,756Member Arc User1
    35501-auguste-southern-fried-bullshipper-whambulance2.jpg
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
  • brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    Yeah, the OP whining and declaring the new Defiant a "total fail" for failing to have two features it was never going to have to begin with is pretty ridiculous.
    I don't understand the total acceptance from some people that the T6 Defiant was never going to have these abilities? Why willingly accept mediocrity?

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Posts: 3,569Member Arc User
    brakkenn wrote: »
    So you're saying you can never ever innovate? Because the previous ship was a certain way then any new version must be just like it? They are asking people for 3000 zen for a ship that out of the gate is worse than the Phantom and Tac pilot ship and you're reasoning is because the old defiant was built this way the new one should be as well.

    Isn't the official line from us supposed to be that "every new thing being better than the old thing is BAD for the game's balance?" (see. power creep)

    What's wrong with staying roughly around the current balance point? A T6 Defiant is going to sell because it's a T6 defiant. It doesn't need to slap down all of the alternatives in addition to that.
    Bipedal mammal and Foundry author.
    Qata58N.png
    For mission updates and screenshots: @Gorgonops_SSF
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Posts: 2,235Member Arc User
    This makes me less likely to buy: Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Universal, 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Pilot, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science

    No Lt. Cdr universal, no Lt. Cdr Science. I like having grav well 1 to clump targets together for more explodening.

    The Kor BoP looks nicer -- enhanced battle cloak, L, 2 x LC, C universal seating, raider flanking. So does the Malem with LC Science and LC uni.
  • brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
    edited November 2015
    [quote= A T6 Defiant is going to sell because it's a T6 defiant. It doesn't need to slap down all of the alternatives in addition to that.[/quote] They won't get my money now and I'm betting alot of people were waiting to see if it had any of those features before buying. Why pay 30 bucks for an inferior ship wrapped in a Defiant skin?

    Post edited by brakkenn on
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Posts: 795Member Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    I'm not debating killing potential. I'm saying the pilot ship's are superior based on their pilot abilities, which can make the ship's invincible. If you believe that assessment is incorrect then please correct me with some facts as to why the defiant is superior.

    Because I'm well aware of how the Pilot abilities work, and precisely what their drawbacks are. The Pilot escorts basically need them to survive because they're otherwise far more fragile than most other escorts of their tier.

    The T6 Defiant is more rugged, and the new Torpedo module console sounds like it helps add to the ship's firepower somewhat.

    The ships are basically designed to be examples of a "stock" T6 Escort. A no-frills, no fancy abilities package. More reliable and durable in exchange for less flare.

    You want to stick to your Pilot Escort because it has Pilot maneuvers, go right ahead. That doesn't make the ship inherently superior, it just means you like the feel of that ship better than something that has no exotic abilities attached to it.

    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • nikephorusnikephorus Posts: 1,415Member Arc User
    I'm not surprised. All the canon ship's are inferior. They will sell because people are attached to their hero ship's. Performance is secondary.
    eyes.jpg
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Posts: 3,175Member Arc User
    Those that were expecting a different layout and/or pilot ship abilities, are either very new to the game or live on some other planet.

    The T6 Defiant (Valiant) is exactly as expected, even if it is more of the same...

    However, if you already own the Phantom or a Pilot ship, then the Valiant adds nothing that would make it a must buy, unless you are already a fan of the ship itself.
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet. (Now SPECTRE)
    Napoleon Solo is very disappointed!
    giphy.gif



  • brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    Those that were expecting a different layout and/or pilot ship abilities, are either very new to the game or live on some other planet.

    The T6 Defiant (Valiant) is exactly as expected, even if it is more of the same...

    However, if you already own the Phantom or a Pilot ship, then the Valiant adds nothing that would make it a must buy, unless you are already a fan of the ship itself.
    Brilliant marketing strategy. Great way to sell ships. Don't expect anything new just more of the same and be happy about it while you're at it.

  • mrsmitty81mrsmitty81 Posts: 96Member Arc User
    Very disappointed that it doesn't have 5/2 weapons layout. So disappointed I may actually pass on this ship. Very sad indeed
  • gfreeman98gfreeman98 Posts: 1,076Member Arc User
    brakkenn wrote: »
    ... it's another swing and a miss from Cryptic. You guys are wasting Thomas's time designing new ship models.
    And yet it will be wildly popular.

    screenshot_2015-03-01-resize4.png
  • citanofdarjanicitanofdarjani Posts: 8Member Arc User
    theres a problem with the t6 defiant? im too busy ogling the t6 bop that they finally made
  • tyriniussstyriniusss Posts: 307Member Arc User
    This was originally a lengthy post about how popular canon ships will always be subpar, but, fearing a shitstorm, I'll keep it a bit more basic:

    It's no surprise.
    It's one of the most popular Canon ships. It doesn't have to be good to sell. Look at the old Galaxy, or even the current one where the T6 Gal-X is practically the same as the T6 Gal, and the T6 Excelsior is a toned down T6 Gal(-X). All three of them basically obsoleted on release by older Cryptic-designed Cruisers.

  • stoesllstoesll Posts: 7Member Arc User
    pilot mode as unicum for pilot ships...im fine with that but 4/3 layout and weird 2p set respectively 3p rom set disregarding the quads....not sure about. At least they changed the warhead from photon to quantum ^^
  • tyriniussstyriniusss Posts: 307Member Arc User
    IMHO both the T6 Defiant and the T6 Gal-X were released with Delta Rising as the Phantom and the Eclipse.
    I'm really sad that Specializations were so hyped as the "new thing" and in the end Trek fans looking for a game to play their favorite ships pretty much get locked out of all that precious Dev time.

    Okay, now I am starting to QQ, I guess I need a break :D
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Posts: 1,717Member Arc User
    Anybody expecting up-armored "piloting" vessels in the updated escorts were just deluding themselves.


    The difference between raiders, escorts, and "piloting ships" is there for a reason.
  • brakkennbrakkenn Posts: 38Member Arc User
    fulleatherjacket wrote: »
    brakkenn wrote: »
    I don't understand the total acceptance from some people that the T6 Defiant was never going to have these abilities?

    The Andromeda cruiser and Yamato dreadnought didn't get the inspiration ability from the command ships and nobody complains about it. The special ship lines get the special abilities. Variety is good. I recommend you stop being a self-entitled bratty child about it.
    brakkenn wrote: »
    Why willingly accept mediocrity?

    Don't knock it. Your parents accepted it when they had you.
    Wow, personal attacks. Stay classy.

  • nightkennightken Posts: 1,229Member Arc User
    edited November 2015
    citanofdarjani wrote: »
    theres a problem with the t6 defiant? im too busy ogling the t6 bop that they finally made

    t-6 b'rel is sexy.

    but I tore my eyes from it to check and the answer is some feds just don't know woo a fine lady like that. :P

    Post edited by nightken on
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Posts: 2,725Member Arc User
    I had been torn between Defiant and the pilot ships but I got the pilot ship during the last sale because I knew about the cannon trait on the Defiant and I liked the look of both. I'm 100% satisfied with the pilot ship.
  • nightkennightken Posts: 1,229Member Arc User
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    citanofdarjani wrote: »
    im too busy ogling the t6 bop that they finally made

    What T6 bop? I see a T4.5 bop because THAT isnt T6.

    what else new they always **** over BoP cause they don't actually want us playing.

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