test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Post War Era #1: Token of Honor

2456

Comments

  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    captaind3 wrote: »
    As far as the Klingons' behavior here...this is why I have been saying all along that the Federation should NOT tolerate their garbage. The fact is that from the episode, Starfleet has remobilized faster as I expected they would, and the Klingons are in a position of weakness and handling it with their usual posturing. What they are REALLY saying is, "You are subservient to us, Federation--that is who you are." That is NOT an acceptable position for the Starfleet officer to put the Federation in. That is a HUGE diplomatic mess-up, IMO.

    (Unfortunately it is similar to Fed behavior we've seen in the past--such as kowtowing to the Cardassians to end the Border Wars, so I'm not saying the writers here are ignoring canon or anything.)

    That's not what she said, she said, Klingons are prideful braggarts to the point of stupidity and the smart ones like Ka'ar can't just change their culture overnight. If Ka'ar behaved in a straightforward logical manner, then one of his officers would've called him weak and tried to assassinate to take his job. Until something better happens they'll rely on Starfleet's intelligence and better nature to not let the Galaxy and the alliance blow up.

    It may not have been the direct words, but it was the subtext: they are preying on Federation acquiescence and weakness of will. :(
    My personal wish:

    Let the Alliance blow up. The Federation is stronger, is remobilizing faster, and with the Iconians no longer a galactic-scale threat, the Klingons need to be shown that their ways of conquest are inherently unsustainable. LET the Klingons attempt to fight a war they cannot win and cannot afford (or at the least, get into a Cold War-style arms race that is going to be infrastructurally and socially weighted severely against them), and if it causes the Empire to collapse in a civil war, all the better. If it does, then maybe, as the Enterprise timeline suggests (Klingons are a confirmed Federation member in the 26th century--we do NOT have a join date so it could have been any time before that), then the Federation will get something good out of it in that similar to the Romulans, the Empire's collapse will:

    1) Weaken remaining warmongering factions to a set of disunified nuisances that can't present a serious threat to the Federation or Romulan Republic

    2) Allow a faction loyal to the memory of Gorkon (and maybe Martok) to rise in an area of former Empire space, which will begin the moves towards true, reliable alliance, and long-term change in Klingon behavior. Once said faction carves out a space for itself, do not send human diplomatic envoys...send Andorians. Given that the Andorians have successfully integrated a warrior tradition into the Federation, they are a far superior choice to humans.

    (Now, I wouldn't be so "idealistic" with the idea that a reformed faction could rise, except for what Daniels showed us about the 26th century timeline. Otherwise I would consider the "best case" scenario to be a Klingon Empire that bit off more than it could chew and finally took a conclusive defeat from the Federation with a helping of civil war on the side.)
    Frankly I have little doubt that such an idea would fail miserably. The Klingons would simply fight to what would be a virtual extinction. They aren't going to give up just because they're losing. Kagran himself demonstrated that with the failed attack on the Andromeda Sphere. Because that's who they are.

    That said, Kagran himself may be an indicator that if confronted severely enough with the futility of the Empire's ways, a change in mindset can occur.

    But as I alluded to before, the only reason I am making a more idealistic statement is the fact that we looked ahead a century or so on the timeline in Enterprise, and saw the eventual outcome for the Empire, that for whatever reason, the Empire eventually ceded its sovereignty to the Federation. If not for that, as I said above, I would've taken a much grimmer outlook, limited to simply...shall we say...exacerbating the conditions leading to civil war, and allowing the Empire to just collapse into a squabbling Kazon-type thing.
    I'm onboard with the idea of a new Klingon philosophy in the Gorkon vein. Especially a revival type culture, getting back to the thoughts of Kolos. Aside from Prime Directive considerations (especially in the spirit of the law) I think that the only way to have a Klingon Renaissance Enlightenment has to come from within. This thread shows why. Look at all the people criticizing the Romulan Republic for being puppets of the Federation and the Empire. Therefore more than anything it HAS to come from inside. Frankly the House system and the inclination Klingons have towards Civil War is the perfect opportunity to showcase that. It's even already written into this story. A Klingon Civil War arc would let us look back and say, "B'Vat was right.", without an exterior foe to focus the Empire's energies, and war to let honor and valor dictate who ascends the ranks of society instead of politics, backstabbing, and secrets, the Klingon Empire tears itself apart. As Ezri said some 45 years ago, the Klingon Empire is terminally ill. The Federation isn't going to get anything out of it by applying Euthanasia to the patient. This has to come from within.

    IMO, we get a nice hint that the Romulan democratization was indeed from within in the Krenim "best case scenario" projection. Though we are all aware that those projections are flawed, the computer is likely making its conjecture from existing data wherein many people made individual decisions to follow D'Tan, like we see Temer do.

    As far as I am aware, D'Tan's Unificationist views are known but are not permitted to dictate Republic policy. That means the Romulans have found a way to have a public disagreement with him yet are still willing to ally with him on the ideals of a Republic alone. I'd like to see the Republic become stronger, but I think that the move away from dictatorship was fully internal. If it had been solely a Spock-instigated Unificationist thing, I don't think it could've gained broader appeal. D'Tan may have gotten a Unificationist influence from Spock, but I see no evidence he's successfully passed it on (and he seems to realize he cannot and should not force that on anyone).

    If a "Gorkonite" faction rises on the KDF side in the wake of a civil war, that would definitely be internal. To my mind, it is not a Prime Directive consideration if the civil war occurs merely as a result of the Federation taking a stronger approach to defending its interests. The Prime Directive only means that once the civil war ensues, the Federation's job is to pull out the popcorn and watch. IMO there's enough to suggest a "Gorkonite" faction can rise from the dust without the Feds having to lift a finger once the civil war is underway.

    Heck...maybe Kagran would be sufficiently motivated to lead it. We've seen him so much as come out and say it in "Midnight."

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    And there's already evidence in-game to support a fracturing of the Empire; talk of (as stated) supporters of Martok still seeking revenge on J'mpok, some NPCs say "Rumors claim that the ties between the House of J'mpok and the House of Duras do not bind as tightly as they once did"...

    Not to mention that there's probably a massive up-heaval in the Empire that's just been waiting for war to die down to rear its head - the deaths of Woden and others of the High Council at the end of "Surface Tension" (despite their continued appearance in the First City social map) means that there's power and glory for the taking and we can be sure that there will be those willing to try...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    And there's already evidence in-game to support a fracturing of the Empire; talk of (as stated) supporters of Martok still seeking revenge on J'mpok, some NPCs say "Rumors claim that the ties between the House of J'mpok and the House of Duras do not bind as tightly as they once did"...

    Not to mention that there's probably a massive up-heaval in the Empire that's just been waiting for war to die down to rear its head - the deaths of Woden and others of the High Council at the end of "Surface Tension" (despite their continued appearance in the First City social map) means that there's power and glory for the taking and we can be sure that there will be those willing to try...

    The High Council is dead, but their Houses remain. Some may be weakened without their leaders, while others may see political change as someone with different views steps up into the void. Fallen Houses such as Torg (NOW 400% MORE DISCOMMENDATED!!!) and those that collapsed during the succession of Wars would leave vacant seats, and loyal service from those such as S'taass could give rise to new vassal-species Houses. If the Empire chooses to reward loyal service, individuals such as S'taass could very well be what holds the Empire together. While I don't see a Chancellor as anything but Klingon, it will be critical to cement the ties of the vassal species during peacetime as external pressures decrease.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • nyniknynik Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User
    Enjoyable read Mr. Ross! I look forward to seeing similar 'bushfire' missions added to the game for player captains to experience first hand now that we are moving away from the Iconian War.
  • kinaenovkinaenov Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    messahla wrote: »
    They are only masters until the romulan republic military complex is stronger and we deal with that insufferable bend knee proconsul D'tan.....maybe we could deal with him and make sela our new proconsul or perhaps even do away with this de facto republic and from the ashes a arise a new romulan star empire.

    One can dream i suppose but so long as we have that weak , spineless bend knee proconsul we will always be taking scraps from the federation and klingons....a pity to have fallen so low.

    You dream of a proconsul who happily gave her own people... our people - by the thousands to the Elachi monsters? Who unleashed the Hirogen hunters against our people without even blinking? Or the Tal'Shiar? Who was, in essence, responsible for destruction of the Hearthworlds and the deaths of nearly Five. Billion. Of her own people. Of our people?

    These are not dreams - those are nightmares. Elements willing, we will never see those nightmares made reality.

  • avanterranavanterran Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    That line:
    "Because you are Starfleet. That's who you are"
    Was a really awesome line.

    Why? I dunno, to be honest.
    If someone who knew the future pointed out a child to you and told you that that child would grow up totally evil to be a ruthless dictator who would destroy millions of lives... could you then kill that child?

    ~The Doctor
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    messahla wrote: »
    insufferable bend knee proconsul D'tan

    You're talking about the man who has, without a single knife embedded in a back or a single shot fired, managed to:

    Secure control of the second-largest Dyson sphere we know of
    Founded one of the only meaningful Romulan governments to rise from the destruction of Romulus
    Effectively rebuff efforts by the Tal Shiar and old Imperialists to undermine the young Republic
    Decisively secure favor and aid from both the Federation and Klingons, effectively cementing their place as the rightful Romulan government post-Hobus
    Told a Tal Shiar agent to make a f***ing appointment after she beamed right the hell into his office.

    "Bend-knee" indeed.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    Oh man, I forgot about D'Tan telling the Tal Shiar agent to make an appointment! Classic...I love it! :)

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    guljarol wrote: »
    Wow, the Feddie seemed to be more trigger-happy than the Klingon, even if the shots weren't actually fired.

    You fight, dear friends, and occupy each other, while we...

    ...I say no more...​​

    Are you sure you're not confusing him with...ME? ;) I'm the one trying to figure out ways to take the Empire down...

    As for the Republic taking this world...I'd consider that an OK outcome from a Fed perspective. D'Tan, unlike J'mpok, is not a galactic menace.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • anjc#8825 anjc Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    k20vtec wrote: »
    tmassx wrote: »
    Meanwhile, as the Federation and Klingons arguing about a piece of stone , Romulan Republic occupies the solanae sphere . lol.

    Really want to insult your feddie and Klingon masters?

    The romulan republic has a constant growth of civilians and military personnel fleeing from the tyranny of the Tal'Shiar. Also since they are at peace, their ship building forces will improve dramatically, look at all of the Hapax warbirds and delhealns that they constructed, while during conflicts, with peace, their fleet will be rebuilt quickly and efficiently, also i see a large growth of their territory, because of the Romulan Navy's hatred of the Tal'Shiar, they may liberate some areas and join the republic. So the romulans can boast all they want, besides, we have thaleron weaponry, on ALL of our dreadnoughts, do you really want to TRIBBLE us off???
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    Why do I feel like this story is leading to ANOTHER mining zone?
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    “Because you are Starfleet. That’s who you are.”

    This is why I want to play Terran Empire faction.
  • hamishmacdoogalhamishmacdoogal Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    We just want one more kilogram of ore than you. Just one. Right. And Hitler said all he wanted was Poland...
    Looks like everyone gets to try out those new lance weapons after all...
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    We just want one more kilogram of ore than you. Just one. Right. And Hitler said all he wanted was Poland...
    Looks like everyone gets to try out those new lance weapons after all...

    It doesn't help that image that I can just see Sugihara talking about 'Peace With Honor'...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    k20vtec wrote: »
    tmassx wrote: »
    Meanwhile, as the Federation and Klingons arguing about a piece of stone , Romulan Republic occupies the solanae sphere . lol.

    Really want to insult your feddie and Klingon masters?

    I do not want to offend anybody , just I say that UFP and KE returned to their pre-war arguments over resources , while the Romulan Star Republic even lost their Homeworld , now joins ( peacefully ) a neutral worlds one for one plus the Solanae sphere. The Romulans will still have big problems with the Borg , the Hirogens and Voths . And if I could choose , I will let freed Rator III ( romulan world with milions of inhabitants ), Achernar II (rich dilitium planet) and Donatra(skilled leader enslaved by the Borg). There are a lot to do instead of fighting over colonies. We'll see if it sometime in the future happened. Nobody will laugh at us , we are our masters.
  • sorcapprenticesorcapprentice Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    A great little story! Thank you!

    I especially appreciated the line:
    “Because you are Starfleet. That’s who you are.”
  • commander45689commander45689 Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    Nice story thanks :smile:
    I am fan of the Galaxy class and Sovereign class. I like Federation cruisers.

    Hoping for a Yesterday's Enterprise Bundle

    My idea for the bundle :smile:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1264100/yesterdays-enterprise-bundle-idea
  • holyknight22holyknight22 Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    I think the blog used a meta-reference to one of the constant complaints by Federation players. The Federation in game is portrayed as "We come in peace, shoot to kill" and this captain escalates the tension factor. Yes, the captain of the Leng did "threaten" him, but the Federation ship went the battlestations, the KDF did nothing; the ship targeted weapons that were charged on an ally ship, the KDF only targeted weapons but did not bring them online; the Federation ship tried evasive maneuvers to get into firing position and avoid target lock, the KDF only moved to avoid flanking.

    Great Job Captain Dunsel, you need to go back to doffing to level up your diplomacy skills, it is obvious this KDF captain has you beat.
  • hartzillahartzilla Member Posts: 1,177 Arc User
    kinaenov wrote: »
    messahla wrote: »
    They are only masters until the romulan republic military complex is stronger and we deal with that insufferable bend knee proconsul D'tan.....maybe we could deal with him and make sela our new proconsul or perhaps even do away with this de facto republic and from the ashes a arise a new romulan star empire.

    One can dream i suppose but so long as we have that weak , spineless bend knee proconsul we will always be taking scraps from the federation and klingons....a pity to have fallen so low.

    You dream of a proconsul who happily gave her own people... our people - by the thousands to the Elachi monsters? Who unleashed the Hirogen hunters against our people without even blinking? Or the Tal'Shiar? Who was, in essence, responsible for destruction of the Hearthworlds and the deaths of nearly Five. Billion. Of her own people. Of our people?

    These are not dreams - those are nightmares. Elements willing, we will never see those nightmares made reality.

    Plus everyone in the Republic wants her head on a pike and that was before she was responsible for Romulus blowing up becuase of her idiotic revenge obsession.
    gulberat wrote: »
    Oh man, I forgot about D'Tan telling the Tal Shiar agent to make an appointment! Classic...I love it! :)

    Well he did learn from the master
    A great little story! Thank you!

    I especially appreciated the line:
    “Because you are Starfleet. That’s who you are.”

    I was annoyed becuase its going back to the same federation that would have sold the entire quadrant to the Dominion and gone along with their plans to divide the powers of the Alpha Quadrant to avoid war.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,764 Arc User
    sov42 wrote: »
    farshore wrote: »
    Klingons are stupid.

    And they smell of tulaberries.

    I thought they smelled earth, peat, and a little like lilacs.



    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    hartzilla wrote: »
    I was annoyed becuase its going back to the same federation that would have sold the entire quadrant to the Dominion and gone along with their plans to divide the powers of the Alpha Quadrant to avoid war.

    Or sell their own colonists to buy "peace" in the Cardassian border wars...yeah, like I said, unfortunately it's compatible with canon but I would've liked to see them actually put an end to the Klingons' unacceptable behavior once and for all.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,764 Arc User
    rahmkota19 wrote: »
    I like these stories.

    Trendy, why are you a Velociraptor now?

    I second this entire post.​​
    Make that three. The minute I spotted it, an old tape ran through my head. "Here, lizard, lizard, lizard."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Ajm_6Vz8M
    I know it's not Godzilla, but it is a lizard, and the brain is funny that way.

    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • barimanforumsbarimanforums Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    Buddy, you got taken for a ride.

    Nope, you can't talk to anybody else. You have to preserve the peace by sharing at a 1 Kg loss. It's only 1 kg! Great deal right?

    Oh, and by the way, since you only had the KDF captain on a channel and not a screen, you didn't actually know if he was a Klingon or not.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,764 Arc User
    I think the blog used a meta-reference to one of the constant complaints by Federation players. The Federation in game is portrayed as "We come in peace, shoot to kill" and this captain escalates the tension factor. Yes, the captain of the Leng did "threaten" him, but the Federation ship went the battlestations, the KDF did nothing; the ship targeted weapons that were charged on an ally ship, the KDF only targeted weapons but did not bring them online; the Federation ship tried evasive maneuvers to get into firing position and avoid target lock, the KDF only moved to avoid flanking.

    Great Job Captain Dunsel, you need to go back to doffing to level up your diplomacy skills, it is obvious this KDF captain has you beat.
    Funny you should mention that...
    Cap-Dunsel-001.jpg


    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    gulberat wrote: »
    hartzilla wrote: »
    I was annoyed becuase its going back to the same federation that would have sold the entire quadrant to the Dominion and gone along with their plans to divide the powers of the Alpha Quadrant to avoid war.

    Or sell their own colonists to buy "peace" in the Cardassian border wars...yeah, like I said, unfortunately it's compatible with canon but I would've liked to see them actually put an end to the Klingons' unacceptable behavior once and for all.

    Part of me wants to blame Spock and the whole Khitomer Conference after Praxis - the Klingons over-mined their moon, causing it to explode and instead of letting them suffer the consequences of their actions, the Pointy-Eared Logician pushed for the Federation to 'help' them...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    gulberat wrote: »
    hartzilla wrote: »
    I was annoyed becuase its going back to the same federation that would have sold the entire quadrant to the Dominion and gone along with their plans to divide the powers of the Alpha Quadrant to avoid war.

    Or sell their own colonists to buy "peace" in the Cardassian border wars...yeah, like I said, unfortunately it's compatible with canon but I would've liked to see them actually put an end to the Klingons' unacceptable behavior once and for all.

    Part of me wants to blame Spock and the whole Khitomer Conference after Praxis - the Klingons over-mined their moon, causing it to explode and instead of letting them suffer the consequences of their actions, the Pointy-Eared Logician pushed for the Federation to 'help' them...

    I've thought about that too...though what I think I would've done would be to help them at a much greater price--or an actual price, period. As far as I can tell, no conditions other than a promise of peace (without any verification or enforcement) were asked in the movie. Any help beyond a certain minimum* would be contingent upon acceptance and follow-through of said terms, which would include (among other things) a permanent end to all activities of conquest, permanent relinquishment of all claims on others' territories, and the ability to actually verify within Klingon borders that there is no re-armament or other moves towards attempting any conquest again.

    *Said minimum meaning I might be willing to assist in an evacuation of Qo'noS (though any attacks either on the aid vessels or on any other foreigners' interests would endanger the continuation of that mission depending on severity of the incident) but they would lose it as a habitable world and my guess is that attempting to evacuate as opposed to reclaiming the environment is not guaranteed to save all lives even with best efforts made, and WILL entail serious infrastructure, livestock, and agricultural loss and a refugee crisis on the remaining worlds. So I would not necessarily be so callous as to stand back and let them all die without even lifting a finger, but getting the best outcome (saving Qo'noS at what is likely minimal to no casualties) would come at a price.

    I realize that is not a "Federation-ideal" solution, but I don't think rebuilding an aggressive empire with no strings attached was ultimately the best choice. This route could still lead to some or most/all lives saved, but the terms attached could have knocked the Empire out of its position as a galactic superpower for a long time. "We'll save you, but we aren't showing you our soft bellies to get a knife in them now, or later down the line."

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • farshorefarshore Member Posts: 353 Arc User
    captaind3 wrote: »
    farshore wrote: »
    Klingons are stupid.

    They're just proud. If they were stupid Ka'ar would've stormed into the ready room and stabbed his first officer in the back for negotiating behind his back instead of letting her do the job of handling business without blowing up an alliance that had just saved their skin.

    Ignoring the fact that he has to act like an idiot to save face in front of his peers. And the only thing Klingons know how to take pride in is beating someone to death, where a reasonable person would take great satisfaction in negotiating a mutually beneficial deal with someone.
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    These little stories are great. I hope they continue beyond the launch of Season 11.
    AFMJGUR.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.