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[PODCAST] Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 186: Mirrors, Carriers, and Vectors, Oh MY!

midniteshadow7midniteshadow7 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 186: Mirrors, Carriers, and Vectors, Oh MY! has been published on Holosuite Media, you can download and stream it from: http://bit.ly/1KHf8JJ

In this week's episode Captain MidNite Shadow and the rest of the USS Tribble crew boldly discusses all the news from Star Trek Online and Star Trek.

In this week's episode the Tribbles crew discuss:
  • STO Ship Sale,
  • Cardassian Revamp
  • Assault on Terok Nor
  • Designing Your Ship
  • Tier 6 Hestia Class Advanced Escort,
  • the new Role Playing Blog,
  • LootCritter Ship Contest,
  • STO Release Notes,
  • Star Trek Anthology
  • Internity
  • Star Trek Renegades
  • 5th Passenger
  • and more!

Tell us about if you’re voting in the Design Your Ship contest and how you feel about it.

Please help friend of the show and fellow Star Trek Online player and podcaster Mav with donations to support his recovery with his current health situation here: http://www.gofundme.com/tomsrecovery.

Comments

  • alex1geralex1ger Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    Hello there. It's me again. :p



    "Design your ship" contest:
    Well, technically we are not designing anything (the "Design the next Enterprise" contest would be an example of how to do that), but this is more like a CYOD (choose your own design).
    And to answer your community question... I did not vote in Alpha vs. Beta because neither design really clicked with me (given the premise). I did vote in the gamma vs. delta part because one of those designs is at least passable. I will not buy any federation carrier, so I'm not that invested in the whole contest, but hey, you never know what's gonna happen in the future. Like you mentioned, we "might" get a watered down version for some event. Or if it does not sell well enough, we might get it during a giveaway. (Yeah, Perfect World tuned the giveaways down severely, so this is really unlikely...)
    I just wish we had some kind of reference in those designs. I mean, it sounds like this ship is going to be a full carrier (two hangar bays) which would imply it being somewhat big (at least cruiser size), but some of the designs really look like escorts to me. What I'm trying to say is, it would have been nice to give us a comparison. Maybe a shadowy outline of an Odyssey in the background?



    Equality/Parity:
    sunseahl... just no. This is not TF2. I mean, in TF2 you would never have had a dev come out and say: "We know that PvP balance is not in a good place right now and we are considering whether to try and fix it or just take PvP out of the game completely."

    This is also not SWTOR or WoW.
    There have always been a lot of people who were very interested in the "cool" lightning-flinging sith (whereas the jedi always seemed kinda "too cerebral" and boring).
    There has always been a strong fanbase for the "savage" orcish horde. Which might have to do with the fact that Blizzard generally seemed more fond of the "underdog" or at least better at telling a compelling horde story. Their alliance stories have often been... lackluster.

    Now look at Star Trek. CBS (as the "keepers of the grail" if you will) never made a klingon-centric series. You did get a klingon-centric episode every now and then or some klingon "guests" but that's it. CBS never tried to push klingons beyond this. But you exclusively harp on Cryptic for not pushing people into the KDF, when Perfect World and especially CBS probably deserve more of that blame.
    But for some reason, the faction disparity is exclusively Cryptic's problem and fault...

    Besides, before launch the executive producer back then (Craig Zinkievich) "promised" different things. I think he started out with "promising" two full factions, but closer to launch he tried to sell us on the idea of klingons being a PvP-only faction. I'm not quite sure about the first part, but I definitely remember the "PvP-only faction" part.
    Let's face it, at that point in time klingons only existed to give those feds who were interested in PvP someone to shoot at.

    The fact that klingons even got to where they are now is entirely thanks to Cryptic who heard your pleas. But did they ever get any gratitude for that? No, because it was never enough. And it won't ever be enough because you seem to be asking for complete parity (50:50) and that will not happen. Ever.

    And your argument about fed carriers... I never wanted fed carriers, but some people did. Just like some klingons were asking for science ships. Cryptic finally gave in (after telling fed carrier advocates for the longest time to go and play a klingon...) and gave both sides what they wanted. But you seemingly just can't accept the fact that the klingons basically traded the kdf-exclusive carrier for the fed-exclusive sci ship.
    Neither side may have realized it back then, but that was the deal and both sides got what they wanted. You're not happy about that? Well... "Be careful what you wish for, it might come true."

    And no, I do not want cloak for fed ships. The sneaky romulans and cowardly klingons can keep that stuff...
    I mean, I can see why the T5 Defiant class got cloak, although that was supposed to be a one-time exception. I can see why the Galaxy Dreadnought (Galaxy-X) got cloak, although that was part of a "possible" future which makes its existence in the game about as silly as any K'Vort could ever be... (See? I'm still giving you ammunition for your crusade...)
    But apart from those two, no federation ship should have cloak. Okay, maybe a Pegasus-class (2410 Oberth with access to the old skin and phasing cloak...). And I should not have said that because someone will think this is a great idea. -.-



    Tales of the war #23:
    I love this blog and at the same time I hate it. I love the way the story is told. The attention to detail that went into writing this blog. And I hate that I was right about Sela getting off the hook this easily. And not just that, she got away because all those captains who were at Starfleet Academy (Nog, Harry Kim, Tom Paris and Kagran) are being portrayed as incompetent morons.



    Star Trek Renegades:
    Well, I actually remembered this was a thing and since I had some time to spare, I gave it a watch. I'm not going to review it, but my general impression was... a couple of nice ideas, a couple of... *shrugs*, a couple of facepalms and... well... some of the shots looked good, some of them looked decent and then there were the night time shots. And those just took me out of the story. If you can't get the night time shots to look decent, try to cut them out as much as possible... And the same goes for the makeup. The cardassian makeup looked... well... it was definitely cardassian, but it looked more like an extremely high quality cardassian mask instead of makeup. And the Nausicaan was even worse. I mean, that was supposed to be a Nausicaan, wasn't it?
    For a pure fan production, it would have been really impressive, but they tried to use crowdfunding to become more "professional" and there were too many times where that contrast became really obvious (and jarring) to me.
    But hey, if they actually do give us more episodes, I will give them a watch. The fact that Michael Westmore got involved should improve the makeup, let's see what happens with the rest.



    Maverick:
    I really appreciate your willingness to help, if only a few of the other podcasts were a bit more pushy about this subject matter. I mean, the trek community as a whole throws quite a bit of money at stuff like Renegades or Axanar. But those projects just have a lot more reach. I feel like that is the main problem here. And I can only spread the word so far...



    Iconian war review:
    Well, since there is still a lot of feedback from last week and this week, I think I could get part 1 ready for next week. So maybe we should start to talk about the "how"?
  • sunseahlsunseahl Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    My argument isn't about the playerbase, Alex. Time and again peopel push this agenda that "peopel don't play klingons, why should we do anything for them."

    I use TF2, even WoW as examples because those are MMO archetypes that START with the one thing Cryptic had to wait over a year to even begin to implement, Multi-factions. This game, at launch. couldn't even be classed as an MMORPG simply because multiple factions did-not-exist. Cryptic has been playing TRIBBLE-footed catch-up since launch and STILL hasn't managed to reach any sort of real parity between the Klingons and the Federation arcs. They've tried, they threw the whole "from level 1" thing in their, to their credit, But on MANY arcs the story has remained largely FEDERATION based. Romulan Story revamp? Still Fed.... Will Cardassian Struggle still be Fed only too?

    At this point even The Matrix Online had better parity than STO has, and The Matrix Online is dead.

    It's not JUST about "if you market Klingons they will come" at this point it's "If you dishonor Klingons so blatantly, why should they stay?" This is why Klingons when from 20% of the player base DOWN to 18... Players gave up on Cryptic actually considering them.

    It also doesn't help that the majority(see Federation) of the player base screams as loudly and repeatedly as possibly "Well of course you don't have anything! Nobody plays you people!" (points at MidnightShadow7) over and over again like it's the only mantra that matters at this point.

    I'm tired of waiting for Cryptic to sort it's house. I'm tired of feeling berated by federation players because I choose to not do something because it's federation based. And most of all I'm tired of feeling like the only person in the world that sees this problem, says there's a problem, then gets swept aside by "oh you're just complaining."

    I'm sick to death of being a punching bag for fed-biased BS simply because I play the game on alliances other than just Fed-ville all the time.



    Oh and as for CBS not signing off on Klingon-only stuff.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Klingon_Academy​​
    Post edited by sunseahl on
    Member of the "Disenchanted"
    We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
  • paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Obligatory nitpick: CBS only acquired the rights to Star Trek in 2006 (as part of the Paramount merger), long after the TV series and Klingon Academy video game. So, CBS had nothing to do with how the Klingons were used prior to Star Trek Online.​​
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    sunseahl wrote: »
    My argument isn't about the playerbase, Alex. Time and again peopel push this agenda that "peopel don't play klingons, why should we do anything for them."

    I use TF2, even WoW as examples because those are MMO archetypes that START with the one thing Cryptic had to wait over a year to even begin to implement, Multi-factions. This game, at launch. couldn't even be classed as an MMORPG simply because multiple factions did-not-exist. Cryptic has been playing TRIBBLE-footed catch-up since launch and STILL hasn't managed to reach any sort of real parity between the Klingons and the Federation arcs. They've tried, they threw the whole "from level 1" thing in their, to their credit, But on MANY arcs the story has remained largely FEDERATION based. Romulan Story revamp? Still Fed.... Will Cardassian Struggle still be Fed only too?

    At this point even The Matrix Online had better parity than STO has, and The Matrix Online is dead.

    It's not JUST about "if you market Klingons they will come" at this point it's "If you dishonor Klingons so blatantly, why should they stay?" This is why Klingons when from 20% of the player base DOWN to 18... Players gave up on Cryptic actually considering them.

    It also doesn't help that the majority(see Federation) of the player base screams as loudly and repeatedly as possibly "Well of course you don't have anything! Nobody plays you people!" (points at MidnightShadow7) over and over again like it's the only mantra that matters at this point.

    I'm tired of waiting for Cryptic to sort it's house. I'm tired of feeling berated by federation players because I choose to not do something because it's federation based. And most of all I'm tired of feeling like the only person in the world that sees this problem, says there's a problem, then gets swept aside by "oh you're just complaining."

    I'm sick to death of being a punching bag for fed-biased BS simply because I play the game on alliances other than just Fed-ville all the time.



    Oh and as for CBS not signing off on Klingon-only stuff.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Klingon_Academy​​

    You're not the only one who's sick of all the good stuff the Feds get and Klingons don't. You're also not alone regarding the putrid venom many of these Fed players spew at us. Both are getting old real fast.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    sunseahl wrote: »
    My argument isn't about the playerbase, Alex. Time and again peopel push this agenda that "peopel don't play klingons, why should we do anything for them."

    I use TF2, even WoW as examples because those are MMO archetypes that START with the one thing Cryptic had to wait over a year to even begin to implement, Multi-factions. This game, at launch. couldn't even be classed as an MMORPG simply because multiple factions did-not-exist.
    MMORPGs do not require multiple factions. MMO stands for "Massive" "Multiplayer" "Online".
    None of the Ms stand for "Multi-Faction".
    This is why Klingons when from 20% of the player base DOWN to 18... Players gave up on Cryptic actually considering them.
    I don't know where this number comes from, but if it's accurate, it seems a surprisingly tiny drop for a faction that is undersupported.
    I suspect the drop in PvP population was considerably higher.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sunseahlsunseahl Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    sunseahl wrote: »
    My argument isn't about the playerbase, Alex. Time and again peopel push this agenda that "peopel don't play klingons, why should we do anything for them."

    I use TF2, even WoW as examples because those are MMO archetypes that START with the one thing Cryptic had to wait over a year to even begin to implement, Multi-factions. This game, at launch. couldn't even be classed as an MMORPG simply because multiple factions did-not-exist.
    MMORPGs do not require multiple factions. MMO stands for "Massive" "Multiplayer" "Online".
    None of the Ms stand for "Multi-Faction".
    This is why Klingons when from 20% of the player base DOWN to 18... Players gave up on Cryptic actually considering them.
    I don't know where this number comes from, but if it's accurate, it seems a surprisingly tiny drop for a faction that is undersupported.
    I suspect the drop in PvP population was considerably higher.

    I never said it did. An MMO, to me, requires more than a singular storyline. It requires an inherent multiplicity to it that is barely passable to me in STO. This is why, as much as I may love the game, don't classify Firefall as an MMO either. Pokemon MMO? Not an MMO. Vindictus? Not an MMO.... Runescape? Not and MMO.

    Oh I don't disagree that they're an MMO in the strictest definition of having masses of multiple players. But an MMO, to me, will always be more about the arc of multiplicity. Are you "the good guy" or are you "the good guy" just from another prospective.... STO fails this to me when they continue to shaft the Klingons.​​
    Member of the "Disenchanted"
    We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
  • alex1geralex1ger Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    @sunseahl :


    I don't think TF2 qualifies as an MMO, but that's not the point, so let's just drop it.
    Does LotRO qualify as an MMO? Because last time I checked it (I should really just patch it and log in again...), they had the free peoples as one faction. And monsterplay. Monsterplay is even less than what the klingons had at launch. You only really need two balanced factions (somewhere in the 50:50 to 60:40 ballpark), when you're interested in getting PvP going. And since the STO devs actually thought about cutting PvP... well...

    Again, I get that klingon fans are passionate about their faction, but what do you want? You will never have as many players as the feds. Which makes it logical that you won't ever get as many ships as the feds. Now, you should still get at least as many, probably even more ships than the romulans. I'm with you on that, but there will always be times when feds get a new ship and the other factions don't. That sucks, but it's the cold, hard truth of the Star Trek IP.

    The next point was... uhm... Cryptic playing catch-up since launch. Well, of course. Do you know the story behind that? The whole shenanigans with Perpetual getting the license to do a Star Trek MMO and having a deadline and when they went under, Cryptic bought the license and assets and everything and apparently Perpetual was nowhere near alpha-status, so Cryptic had to scrap it all and start from the beginning?
    The deadline did not get extended and we have seen later on that Atari was not exactly swimming in money at that time, so Cryptic scrambled to get something out that even remotely resembled an MMO, because otherwise the license would have been lost.
    So, yes. Of course Cryptic played catch-up. They didn't have that much of a choice in that. Cranking out a barely functional MMO in... how much time did they actually have? 1,5 years? 2 years? Your regular MMO development takes how many years? 4-5?

    Would I have preferred more than a barebones MMO back then? Yes. And let's face it, they would have been getting better reviews and who knows how the story would have unfolded in that case. But I don't blame Cryptic for that. Atari kept them short on money and staff and CBS refused to extend the deadline. So they did what they could.
    And like I said, shortly before launch Craig Zinkievich came out and explained that klingons would be a PvP-only faction. So... "It's been a long road..."

    Now, you mention that the supposedly "faction-agnostic" story arcs are too "federation-centric". Okay, that's a valid criticism. I would have liked to see more of the species-specific dialogue options, too. (That I mainly experienced during the federation tutorial when the cadets were still running around Starfleet academy.) So... no argument from me. Quite on the contrary, I'm with you on that one. I only wish you could have brought this up sooner.
    Btw., House Pegh was supposed to give klingons their day in the spotlight. And before you throw stuff at me, I did not particularly like that episode and I think it was definitely not the best showcasing of klingons. Just like Guroth and Kagran were not exactly presenting klingons in the best light possible...

    Btw. I remember Klingon Academy. I actually played its predecessor, Starfleet Academy. But what does that have to do with anything? I mean, Interplay had a license back then. It was their financial risk, not CBS's (or Paramount's or whoever owned the IP back then). So, once again, when did the owner of Star Trek ever really took a financial risk to push klingons?
    Where is that klingon Star Trek movie? Where is that klingon Star Trek TV show?
    I don't doubt that there are novels and audio dramas and websites and even those dictionaries for the klingon language. But it's not like the IP owner ever put that much of their money where the klingons were...
    But every time you bring it up, you make it sound like it's all Cryptic's fault. And I just disagree. Hammer them over the head with complaints about the story, keep asking for the K'Vort or a T6 sci ship (if you must), but Cryptic did not start the mismarketing of klingons.
  • sunseahlsunseahl Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    They may not have started it... but they seem to perpetuate it. That is the whole criticism. They fail time and again to actually have GOOD Klingon writing. The ONE TIME they do it it's the end of a freakin' galactic war! They say the want to fix them... yet time and again they literally push anything Klingon until they ABSOLUTELY have nothing left to "update." I'm STILL fuming from back when Dan Stahl said something along the lines of "we wouldn't introduce a third faction until we fixed the klingons." What did they do? Push Romulans.... with a half-assed attempt at "Oh hey! We made Klingons level 1 characters with this storyline intro that seems nice until it turns into constant dishonor and Romulan deceptions. Oh wait... we shouldn't have told you that." At this point, the Klingon missions are littered with so much dishonorable bullshiet that there are more Honroable klingons littered throughout the Fed missions than there are the Klingon story.​​
    Post edited by sunseahl on
    Member of the "Disenchanted"
    We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
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