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USS Voyager torpedo count :)

trekpuppytrekpuppy Member Posts: 446 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Over the years I've seen several written attempts to analyze various aspects of continuity in Star Trek: Voyager. Crew numbers and torpedo count are the most common. I happened to stumble across a YouTube video dealing with the latter of the two and I just had to share it with you. Very nicely edited and gave me the laugh of the day. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
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Comments

  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    Never gets old. :) I even shared this with a hardcore VOY fan at a local convention, and even she had to admit it was hilarious and well edited. You can literally see the point where the Voyager writers decided they no longer cared about their original premise.

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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I've headcannoned that in the 25th century there may possibly exist torpedo replication technology which allows us to spam torpedo spreads as ridiculously as we do.

    Still, Voyager should not have been able to do that, given that they SAID they had a limited number and no way to replace them.
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    I've headcannoned that in the 25th century there may possibly exist torpedo replication technology which allows us to spam torpedo spreads as ridiculously as we do.

    Still, Voyager should not have been able to do that, given that they SAID they had a limited number and no way to replace them.

    Exactly--had they not stated that onscreen, I could have headcanoned it such that the reason they were on replicator rations was so that they could ensure they were adequately defended. But that possibility was ruined by saying they couldn't replace their torpedoes when they were gone.

    In MY headcanon, I explain this with the idea that ship replicators and industrial replicators are VERY different things, that most ships do not carry industrial replicators (perhaps none...though maybe a large starbase or shipyard like ESD or Utopia Planitia does), and that at least some torpedo components are sufficiently large that there is no alternative but to use an industrial replicator. Or attempt to make them the old fashioned way, which would also require facilities and resources not available. And while I think you could use a holodeck to create a smithy for some needs, I don't think you could make an entire working factory or industrial park that way.

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    I've headcannoned that in the 25th century there may possibly exist torpedo replication technology which allows us to spam torpedo spreads as ridiculously as we do.

    Still, Voyager should not have been able to do that, given that they SAID they had a limited number and no way to replace them.
    Actually.... there's a key detail people often overlook. What Janeway actually said is that(at the time) they had no way to replace the antimatter in the warheads. She did not make a blanket statement that they would NEVER ever be able to find a way to make more torpedoes.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,360 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    I've headcannoned that in the 25th century there may possibly exist torpedo replication technology which allows us to spam torpedo spreads as ridiculously as we do.

    Still, Voyager should not have been able to do that, given that they SAID they had a limited number and no way to replace them.
    Actually.... there's a key detail people often overlook. What Janeway actually said is that(at the time) they had no way to replace the antimatter in the warheads. She did not make a blanket statement that they would NEVER ever be able to find a way to make more torpedoes.
    CHAKOTAY: We have a complement of 38 photon torpedoes, Captain.

    JANEWAY: And no way to replace them once they're gone.

    (It's literally the very first exchange in that clip.)
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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    gulberat wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    I've headcannoned that in the 25th century there may possibly exist torpedo replication technology which allows us to spam torpedo spreads as ridiculously as we do.

    Still, Voyager should not have been able to do that, given that they SAID they had a limited number and no way to replace them.

    Exactly--had they not stated that onscreen, I could have headcanoned it such that the reason they were on replicator rations was so that they could ensure they were adequately defended. But that possibility was ruined by saying they couldn't replace their torpedoes when they were gone.

    In MY headcanon, I explain this with the idea that ship replicators and industrial replicators are VERY different things, that most ships do not carry industrial replicators (perhaps none...though maybe a large starbase or shipyard like ESD or Utopia Planitia does), and that at least some torpedo components are sufficiently large that there is no alternative but to use an industrial replicator. Or attempt to make them the old fashioned way, which would also require facilities and resources not available. And while I think you could use a holodeck to create a smithy for some needs, I don't think you could make an entire working factory or industrial park that way.

    Well what I did that for was to have some explanation for the absurd number of torpedoes we see in space combat.
    (in game)
    Maybe torpedo spreads actually fire many microtorpedoes? I mean with that many torpedoes you'd think it could stand to do a bit more damage.
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,758 Arc User
    Maybe they off-screen replenished on alien worlds. Torpedo Planets; planets who export torpedo technology for all varieties of races. A planet like this for every 20 light years, on their route home.

    There were episodes where they had off-screen encounters.
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  • k20vteck20vtec Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.



    And if I remember correctly, they could have worked it into the plot even. In the episode with that Cardassian Dreadnought Missile Thingy, they mentioned the ship was loaded with quantum torpedoes. But they destroyed it before they transferred anything.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.

    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?
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  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.

    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?

    I agree...it's not that I am an "enemy of the franchise," but that making that comment turned it into a major Chekhov's Rifle.

    For an example of resource tracking done pretty well, look at the new Battlestar Galactica. Now, that does not mean Voyager needed to be as grim as nuBsG by a long shot, before anyone suggests I want to make Grimdark Trek. The solutions could be more frequent and not require as much moral compromise as nuBsG, but it would have at least shown the writers were thinking about it and cared about their premise.

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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    OP, that vid never gets old.
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.

    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?

    This is actually one of my core issues regarding VOY. Not simply because of the torpedo count, but Voyager is cut off from Starfleet support. There are no Starfleet shipyards, starbases, facilities to dock with to undergo repairs, resupply. Yet in between episodes, she comes off looking fresh as if she just left the shipyards, brand new.

    We see by the end of "Wrath of Khan," the USS Enterprise was badly battered. At the beginning of the next movie, "Search For Spock," she STILL is badly damaged and had to go to a starbase for repairs. The crew of the base only look on in amazement with what the Enterprise endured. Even when Kirk & Crew steal her, she STILL was badly damaged.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.
    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?
    As a counterpoint, it's also good writing to not get bogged down with trivial details. Keeping a running tally of the exact number of torpedoes on Voyager is a nice idea, but.... do you really want to pigeonhole yourself into showing every time the count changes on screen? In the grand scheme of things the number's a minor plot point unless you have eps where they run out. Otherwise the number is a trivial detail.

    The core premise is that Voyager has limited resources, and must improvise to survive. The exact amounts of any one resource are trivial details.
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  • sovereign47sovereign47 Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Yes, Voyager has a lot of inconsistencies and this is just one of them. Besides that one, there is 5th torpedo launcher right next to the warp core ejection port (as shown in video), while it was clearly stated that Voyager has four of them. There are also several one-episode phaser banks/arrays which I consider as VFX errors, but some people tend to consider that because they are shown on screen it proves their existence. Unlike them, I'm not accepting it for a canon fact. Voyager has 13 phaser arrays and that's it.
    And there is also a problem of excessive number of shuttles which they certainly couldn't rebuild so easily.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,360 Arc User
    gulberat wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.

    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?

    I agree...it's not that I am an "enemy of the franchise," but that making that comment turned it into a major Chekhov's Rifle.

    For an example of resource tracking done pretty well, look at the new Battlestar Galactica. Now, that does not mean Voyager needed to be as grim as nuBsG by a long shot, before anyone suggests I want to make Grimdark Trek. The solutions could be more frequent and not require as much moral compromise as nuBsG, but it would have at least shown the writers were thinking about it and cared about their premise.
    That was actually part of the reason nBSG was what it was. Ron Moore kept track of the loss of resources (torpedoes, shuttles, etc) during the first season or so of VOY, then went to Berman and Braga with a proposal for a script in which it would be explained how they got more of them.

    The idea was rejected, with the comment, "This is Star Trek. We don't worry about that."

    That was one of the things that informed Moore's remake of BSG. If they got a resupply of anything, by the Lords of Kobol, he was going to explain how that happened!
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  • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    That lack of concern over internal continuity was Voyager's greatest flaw. They set the show up with a unique premise of a ship being stranded far from home with a third of the crew being innately hostile outsiders... then out of sheer laziness they went straight back to the TNG playbook which they already knew was running out of steam back when TNG hit season 7.

    Staying with the established framework of your shows premise isn't a handicap if you have competent writers and producers. If the ship needs repairs or resupply then that simply calls for the show to script an episode where Janeway has to find a solution.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    gulberat wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.
    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?
    I agree...it's not that I am an "enemy of the franchise," but that making that comment turned it into a major Chekhov's Rifle.

    For an example of resource tracking done pretty well, look at the new Battlestar Galactica. Now, that does not mean Voyager needed to be as grim as nuBsG by a long shot, before anyone suggests I want to make Grimdark Trek. The solutions could be more frequent and not require as much moral compromise as nuBsG, but it would have at least shown the writers were thinking about it and cared about their premise.
    That was actually part of the reason nBSG was what it was. Ron Moore kept track of the loss of resources (torpedoes, shuttles, etc) during the first season or so of VOY, then went to Berman and Braga with a proposal for a script in which it would be explained how they got more of them.

    The idea was rejected, with the comment, "This is Star Trek. We don't worry about that."

    That was one of the things that informed Moore's remake of BSG. If they got a resupply of anything, by the Lords of Kobol, he was going to explain how that happened!
    I agree that writing explanations of how they got new stuff is a good idea, and Voyager did often show them doing just that, it's just that Voyager didn't try to count everything. And to be honest, I like that they didn't get bogged down trying to keep a running inventory of everything on the ship.

    In truth the REALLY funny stuff happens when you try to inventory Voyager's CREW. Not the named characters, but the extras, who played redshirts etc.... Heheh....
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    They tried the limited supply thing with SG:U as well... went dark, especially with the limited time between FTL jumps to gather resources.

    I think SG:U was an example of messing with the magic formula that SG-1 and Atlantis had. If they kept the humor to break the tension like SG-1 and Atlantis had... SG:U might have been better, but it was just too dark for a Stargate series.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Nah, the dark wasn't the problem, it was the fact that a lot of eps were kinda depressing to watch... :/
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    SG:U lacked humor. They tried adding a bit more in Season 2 but it was already too late.
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    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
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  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    "No way to replace them" almost certainly meant that they had no way to do so with on-board resources. However, Voyager encountered several civilizations through the series that were both advanced enough to supply them with the needed materials and friendly enough to be willing to sell such items.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    lilchibiclari wrote: »
    "No way to replace them" almost certainly meant that they had no way to do so with on-board resources. However, Voyager encountered several civilizations through the series that were both advanced enough to supply them with the needed materials and friendly enough to be willing to sell such items.

    Then IMO we should have seen them trade for it onscreen rather than just have stuff magically appear out of nowhere. I don't see how the writers missed that this could be plot material.

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    gulberat wrote: »
    lilchibiclari wrote: »
    "No way to replace them" almost certainly meant that they had no way to do so with on-board resources. However, Voyager encountered several civilizations through the series that were both advanced enough to supply them with the needed materials and friendly enough to be willing to sell such items.

    Then IMO we should have seen them trade for it onscreen rather than just have stuff magically appear out of nowhere. I don't see how the writers missed that this could be plot material.

    "Trade what?"
    "PRIME DIRECTIVE! NO TRADING TECH!"

    Had to throw in the obligatory arguments against trading, and early on Voyager's only real commodity was easy to replace tech. The longer they spent in the Delta Quadrant, the more trade goods they probably collected for the purposes of gathering materials to repair and rearm.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    gulberat wrote: »
    lilchibiclari wrote: »
    "No way to replace them" almost certainly meant that they had no way to do so with on-board resources. However, Voyager encountered several civilizations through the series that were both advanced enough to supply them with the needed materials and friendly enough to be willing to sell such items.
    Then IMO we should have seen them trade for it onscreen rather than just have stuff magically appear out of nowhere. I don't see how the writers missed that this could be plot material.
    "Trade what?"
    "PRIME DIRECTIVE! NO TRADING TECH!"

    Had to throw in the obligatory arguments against trading, and early on Voyager's only real commodity was easy to replace tech. The longer they spent in the Delta Quadrant, the more trade goods they probably collected for the purposes of gathering materials to repair and rearm.
    AND as I pointed out several times already..... The difference between what Gul Berat proposed and what actually happened is that we didn't ever hear anyone say they got materials to make torpedoes. I mean, Voyager literally went on mining expeditions a few times.... Then traded ore for stuff. A lot of the time the writers simply didn't bother explaining WHAT they actually got, or what they were trading. Although the Alice episode did mention that they traded what were essentially spare parts for... Alice, a Beryllium crystal, and junk that could be used for spare parts. unfortunately they didn't get to keep Alice or the Crystal.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    I wasn't saying they couldn't trade. I was just throwing out the obligatory arguments for fun before rationalizing how they COULD have done it between episodes.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    k20vtec wrote: »
    No seriously, why is it so hard to imagine they cant replicate Torpedos? The only problem is the antimatter supply. All hail Torpedo Aviation Battleship USS Voyager

    It is not hard at all to imagine they could do that. But when the Captain of the ship clearly says: " We have no way to replace them", it sounds like they might really not be able to do so.

    It's probably the most basic example of how the VOY writing crew really didn't care about consistency and realizing the full potential of their premise.
    Or how fans are the worst enemy of the franchise.....

    Janeway's statement was based on her current situation. IE the PILOT episode.... She didn't have any way to replicate them AT THAT TIME.
    And if it's an important point to make, you better follow it up. They could have made an episode of them trying to get the necessary materials to replicate their own torpedoes, for example. Or they could have made it a point that the VOY actually ran out of torpedoes and is in a difficult situation because of it.

    That's just good writing. And not using it is a missed opportunity. We don't need to conjure up another technobabble problem or an episode that could have happened on TNG or TOS, too, we could use an actual, easy understood problem and have the crew run into interesting conflicts and challenges because of it. . "We're out of ammo."
    It is something that emerges completely naturally out of the base premise of the series. Why not use it?
    As a counterpoint, it's also good writing to not get bogged down with trivial details. Keeping a running tally of the exact number of torpedoes on Voyager is a nice idea, but.... do you really want to pigeonhole yourself into showing every time the count changes on screen? In the grand scheme of things the number's a minor plot point unless you have eps where they run out. Otherwise the number is a trivial detail.

    The core premise is that Voyager has limited resources, and must improvise to survive. The exact amounts of any one resource are trivial details.

    Sure, the exact amount is not relevant - but they wouldn't have to even give the exact amount.
    I don't think the NuBSG ever told us how much food, water or fuel they had. But they made it a point to show the fleet run out of it and do something about it.
    The whole time the Pegasus was still them they basically build up a resource resupply opportunity - the Pegasus shared ammunitions (including a bunch of nukes, as we later learn), and could even produce its own Vipers.


    It's not like the writers had to wait for the countdown they gave us to run out. A competent crew would probably not wait for the last moment to replenish a limited resource.

    And sure, maybe you can say they just traded them at some point - but come on, trading materials for photon torpedoes, an example of advanced weapon technology? I am sure that could have created an interesting story, with a difficult moral dilemma to solve.

    You don't just leave such an opportunity unused. If you're serious with your show's premise.


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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    The torpedo count is not an issue at all, they simply picked up some more antimatter warheads from someone else off-screen and replicated some more photon torpedo shells.

    Now their shuttle count on the other hand, where the hell did they get those Type 9's from?​​
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  • k20vteck20vtec Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    AS I said. All hail Torpedo Aviation battleship Voyager. A ship with with 4 torpedo launcher and 14 arrays isnt what people would call "science vessel". The Voyager are there to establish Federation presence, preparing delta quadrant for the upcoming assimilation peaceful co-existance with the Federation. Starfleet probably outfitted Everything necessary for quantum slipstream into the Voyager when they sent them off.
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  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    The torpedo count is not an issue at all, they simply picked up some more antimatter warheads from someone else off-screen and replicated some more photon torpedo shells.

    Now their shuttle count on the other hand, where the hell did they get those Type 9's from?​​


    'No way to replace them' was like a week into the Delta Quadrant, to be fair, when everything they encountered was a scavenger. They encountered more stable governments later, so were probably able to replenish there.

    The Type-9s are anyone's guess. I saw a joke MSD once where Voyager was all-shuttle, but can't find it.


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