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Sector space needs more LIGHT!

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  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,834 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    That viewer having experienced those shot for perhaps between 3-10 seconds. Photo-shoot lighting helps in that case but over the course of a video game the viewer is seeing something quite different.

    Ships, yes, but ships over time.

    While I'm not sure what this will say about me , there are episodes and certain space combat youtube vids that I have seen literally dozens and even hundreds of times .

    What you have described is the uber casual viewer who will go and see a sci-fi movie once and that's it .
    Not that there is anything wrong with that .

    However , our ships are our avatars , and I for one would like to see my avatars the same way I've seen it for the last 5 years , in all their glory ... , and not just the glory of their windows . :D





    ... hope that's not too entitled of me ... ;)
  • mickcasanovamickcasanova Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Rather than add brighter lighting, I think it would make more sense to add hull lighting, and like astrometrics, make it a toggle. It would help us see the ships better.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,458 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Seriously, it does.
    Yes I know space is dark and all, but how often do you see ships flying at warp with their hulls completely darkened?

    Turn on your ships running lights. :D
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    See thats just it, no matter what reality may or may be, poorly illuminated ships flying around in black space as just a few specs of light just isn't very interesting or entertaining.

    And at the end of the day STO is a Star Trek game, a form of entertainment, not a space simulator.

    In addition if sector space is so pitch black now, how do you ever imagining adding regions of space like "The Void" that are devoid of stars etc, to actually have a that feel that sets it apart from the rest of the Star Trek universe?
  • presbytier7presbytier7 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The game has always had odd lighting in places. it is either too dark or too bright. that being said, my god I love the new sector space it finally feels vast and no longer claustrophobic, so I can put up with a few lighting quirks.
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  • amezukiamezuki Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Previously, the ambient was just cranked way up. I wanted space to feel darker, and more realistic. This was also done to make flying near systems cooler. The lighting from Stars should reach the outer edges of any system you fly to. It will be brighter near the star than it is at the edges. You should be able to see your ship just fine within a system.
    I personally really, really like the change. Space should feel empty and lonely between worlds, and the dimness helps sell the feeling of being in deep space. It gives me a feeling that I often get in games like Skyrim or Fallout, but never had before in this game: that fleeting spike of relief I get when a distant prick of light in the darkness resolves into a sign of life. And I like the fact that with sector blocks no longer essentially being rectilinear highways, you no longer have most player traffic proceeding along predictable paths, which results in crossing paths with other players far less--another thing that really helps sell the feeling of being in space.

    If anything, I wish sectors were twice as large as they are now, especially with the apparent increase in travel speed. I just started a new Delta toon though, so we'll see if I still feel that way at Warp 5. XD
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  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Dark, nearly impossible to see images seem to be the way of the future.

    I like the lack of sector walls.

    My ships, even my bright and shiny red and white Risian Corvette, disappearing into the void in sector space, not so much. It is fitting for my B'Rel and Phantom to be nearly impossible to see but fitting and good UI aren't entirely the same thing.
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  • amezukiamezuki Member Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    My ships, even my bright and shiny red and white Risian Corvette, disappearing into the void in sector space, not so much. It is fitting for my B'Rel and Phantom to be nearly impossible to see but fitting and good UI aren't entirely the same thing.
    Even setting aside personal preference, I have to wonder how much of this is dependent on each person's monitor color profile, gamma and brightness settings, et al. I have two monitors, and the landscape-mode monitor I use for gaming is definitely newer and brighter than the other, on which I routinely had to turn up the gamma in darker games.

    I mention this because I drive an Eclipse, and my ship is dark as hell--but even in deep space I can see it just fine.
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  • captainzheicaptainzhei Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I've been bothered by this for a long time. Sector Space direly needed more illumination so that the players can see their own ships!

    I've also noticed the change to the bloom effect, including the slider in the options menu that now caps at 100%, rather than 500%.
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  • voivodjevoivodje Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It's good as it is.
    Maybe it's a tad bright, even....
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Its hardly good.

    So many of the stars won't even illuminate my ship until I'm literally on top of them.
    SOL included.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Hmm I fly around in a qin heavy raptor. Space is dark. My ship is dark. Hey wait, my ship is semi-reflective. I can see my ship.. and ohh hey was that a planet we just passed?
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  • centaurianalphacentaurianalpha Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Leave it dark; in fact, there should not be very much light at all, until one's ship approaches a star or nebula...:rolleyes:
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I like it as is.

    it should be dark. I love the atmosphere now.
  • captaintrueheartcaptaintrueheart Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    I wanted space to feel darker, and more realistic.

    Gameplay trumps realism? LOL

    I'm fine with the short amount of time I'm in sector space simply watching my running lights traverse the darkness. Transwarp drive renders this problem moot.

    It is quite realistic, which isn't a bad thing... just makes for some awkward moments when you can't really see your ship.
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  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yep the screwed up bloom, at least for the background nebulas etc.

    Not sure if the whole game is affected.
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  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    I think turning up our running lights a bit would help and leave the overall lighting on sector space as it is.

    Agreed. It would make some of the Intel ships, with the dark hull but visible windows, look really pretty.
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Not really .
    (bottom pic is what we used to have)

    The top looks much better than the bottom, considering it's between us and a big light source.

    Seriously need brighter lights, though.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The whole "realism" thing is just dumb, seeing as how even encounters on maps set in "Deep Space" are not even remotely this dark.

    And again if were going for realism, stars cast light at a far far to short distance now. Even Pluto gets sunlight at a distance of 30-49 AU's from the sun. Compare that with the Solar Radius which is 0.0046491 AU's.

    So at the absolut very least stars need to begin casting light on your hull at a far far greater distance. Because theres nothing remotely realistic about a star first beginning to cast light when its filling a huge portion of your field of view.
  • astroroblaastrorobla Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    True, but every shot of every ship in Star Trek had a light being cast on the ship from NOWHERE.

    That's easy to do when you're working in a camera. That's much harder to do when you have a full 360* view of your ship.

    Previously, the ambient was just cranked way up. I wanted space to feel darker, and more realistic. This was also done to make flying near systems cooler. The lighting from Stars should reach the outer edges of any system you fly to. It will be brighter near the star than it is at the edges. You should be able to see your ship just fine within a system.

    Having often been annoyed watching the deep space Trek lighting (which they really only got right, to lovely effect, in STTMP) I'm becoming quite fond of the dark deep space look, illuminated only by our ships lighting.

    Nice change!

    Note that the sun's brightness at Neptune & Pluto is only 0.06% the level it is at Earth. That's evening dark, though it's still a couple hundred times brighter than a full moon. So there's really not a lot of light even in the outer parts of the solar system.

    For me the bigger aesthetic glitch is the way the star halos "pop on" at some threshold distance. Would be nicer if they could fade up a little more smoothly.
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    astrorobla wrote: »
    Having often been annoyed watching the deep space Trek lighting (which they really only got right, to lovely effect, in STTMP) I'm becoming quite fond of the dark deep space look, illuminated only by our ships lighting.

    Nice change!

    Note that the sun's brightness at Neptune & Pluto is only 0.06% the level it is at Earth. That's evening dark, though it's still a couple hundred times brighter than a full moon. So there's really not a lot of light even in the outer parts of the solar system.

    For me the bigger aesthetic glitch is the way the star halos "pop on" at some threshold distance. Would be nicer if they could fade up a little more smoothly.

    Its still not pitch black, and our eyes have the ability to adapt and see.
    On a clear night with a full moon you can still see A LOT of detail very clearly when there is no interference or pollution from other light sources.

    Our hulls should simply not be total pitch black as they were covered in an oil slick.
  • spockout1spockout1 Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Maybe a touch more light, but not very much.

    I think sector space needs more color and life, but the SHIPS are what really need more light.

    Like this.

    Or this.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Its still not pitch black, and our eyes have the ability to adapt and see.
    On a clear night with a full moon you can still see A LOT of detail very clearly when there is no interference or pollution from other light sources.

    Our hulls should simply not be total pitch black as they were covered in an oil slick.

    Are you sure this isn't in part due to your graphics settings? I admit sector space is much darker now, but none of my ships are as dark as you're describing here.
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  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    Are you sure this isn't in part due to your graphics settings? I admit sector space is much darker now, but none of my ships are as dark as you're describing here.

    Nope.
    I mean they are not RBG 0-0-0 black, I call it an oil slick because its very dark and the ship is shiny, like oil.
  • voivodjevoivodje Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Its hardly good.

    So many of the stars won't even illuminate my ship until I'm literally on top of them.
    SOL included.
    And just why does your ship needs illumination?
    My ship just needs weapons and a shield...

    Running on solar power then?
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Nope.
    I mean they are not RBG 0-0-0 black, I call it an oil slick because its very dark and the ship is shiny, like oil.

    Curious. What graphics card are you using?
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    True, but every shot of every ship in Star Trek had a light being cast on the ship from NOWHERE.

    That's easy to do when you're working in a camera. That's much harder to do when you have a full 360* view of your ship.

    Previously, the ambient was just cranked way up. I wanted space to feel darker, and more realistic. This was also done to make flying near systems cooler. The lighting from Stars should reach the outer edges of any system you fly to. It will be brighter near the star than it is at the edges. You should be able to see your ship just fine within a system.

    I love it! My ship glows with the windows, the effects is really awesome. This is the best feature on the game in a long time! :D
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  • kimonykimony Member Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I've always enjoyed watching my ships flying through sector space, viewing them from different angles as they traveled and passed other random ships which I had the opportunity to admire until they faded out of view. It's the reason I most always "drive" to where I'm going rather than transwarp or slipstream.

    It was the reason I was most looking forward to the new sector space, more time to enjoy the uninterrupted ride, but this new lighting has really hurt my enjoyment of the time spent traveling hither and fro.

    Traveling now becomes tedious as I stare at a shadow or silhouette or negative image of my ship, which for me, isn't nearly as entertaining.

    Imagine if all the shots of the Enterprise in space (in the shows) were lit like this and we were only able to be seen in all their glory when they were at a planet or starbase. I think that would be pretty boring to sit through. It would be for me anyway.

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  • hungryandorianhungryandorian Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I have noticed while flying around in sector space that sometimes when you zoom in closer to your ship the camera will jump as if the ship is having a seizure. Also the windows on and the deflector dish on my excelsior are jiggling. The windows look like they are clipping in and out. this doesnt happen in normal combat space but only when flying in sector.
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  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,834 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Guys, I think it's time to face it :

    While there are some beautiful aspects to the new sector space , the Art team is infected with the same hypocrisy we've seen from Cryptic in other departments .

    On one hand, we have the extra care that went into the placement of planets in the new sector space , or the revamp of the DS9 space zone, or the Voyager Master System Display -- and OTOTH we get the idea to get "creative" with how Star Trek starships look while they fly in space .

    And when they get called on it ... -- well, so far we're in the "we've done no wrong" stage .
    That's cool .
    That's even expected .

    Denial can be a wonderful thing , and certainly nothing should shake it .
    Not evidence from the shows, or the last 5 years of the game , nor even this silly notion that currently we got three representation's of our space avatars (ships) looking completely different from each other :

    - zone's (bright)
    - sector space (dark)
    - missions where our ships are lit up like in zones except no sun is seen anywhere . (bright)





    ... but who care's , right ? let's turn Star Trek into the visage of darkness of our choice ... , and if we grasp at straws we can even justify it ... , as there was that one starless ep. in Voyager ... , and look at Generations ... -- and please ignore the 98% of established visuals from hundreds of hours of television & movies ...
  • nyniknynik Member Posts: 1,623 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    kimony wrote: »
    Traveling now becomes tedious as I stare at a shadow or silhouette or negative image of my ship, which for me, isn't nearly as entertaining.

    I'd have to agree with this sentiment too.
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