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Im tired of AP getting everything (including unfixed exploit)

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  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited March 2015

    Plasma, eh? You could combine 2-3 others and not come anywhere near what Plasma offers in this game.

    AP gets a '79 Pinto Torpedo...and the Corvette collector moans about it?



    And not even making the list are Vaadwaur Polarons...which I gleefully use along with my Ferengi Rapid. Wheeeee!

    Plasma, unlike AP, was both a torpedo and an energy weapon type, and unlike AP, has to use energy or projectile consoles to buff the Plasma damage depending on how it's being shot out of the ship. Are there phaser torpedoes? Disruptor torpedoes?
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Plasma, unlike AP, was both a torpedo and an energy weapon type, and unlike AP, has to use energy or projectile consoles to buff the Plasma damage depending on how it's being shot out of the ship. Are there phaser torpedoes? Disruptor torpedoes?

    You don't fly Fed, eh? AP's not the first "projectile" doing Energy.
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    There's a simple solution to this and its been suggested before. Give a bonus to other energy types that are native to a particular faction. For example, Federation players would get a bonus if they use phasers on their vessels, Klingons would get a bonus if they use disruptors, etc.

    And leave AP out of the mix as being native to any particular faction.
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  • baconmaesterbaconmaester Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Everyone crying over this AP Torp would of kept their mouths shut if the Torp was of an energy weapon type they use.

    Thats what this all boils down to. Its not their flavor energy type so theyre angry about it.
  • tgo533tgo533 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Cryptic messed up here...

    The prize should have been a choice with all weapon types. Let us choose what we want.

    I wont run AP because they sound like nails on a chalkboard to me.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You know, it's just too easy to mock the folks crying that Cryptic did cake instead of pie...cause they're just going on and on about their particular flavor not getting something...and it's just kind of sad as well as funny - more sad the longer it goes on, though.

    Release Notes: October 30th, 2014
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=20336131
    Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array from the Mission Reward for "Sphere of Influence":
    ---Renamed to "Ancient Omni-Directional Beam Array" to reduce confusion between this and the similarly-named Crafted Beam Arrays.
    ---This mission reward no longer shares a Equip Limit Category with the Crafted Beam Arrays, allowing both to be placed on any ship simultaneously.
    ---Damage from this weapon has been increased by a small amount.
    It still deals less damage than the Crafted Beams, but the difference is smaller, and this beam can benefit from a set bonus.

    IMHO, this should not have happened.

    That there's an AP Torp doesn't fall into the same category for me, personally...that's not much different than any of the sets out there or special torps and clusters. That's just something out there that's happened for years, and has not generated anywhere near the outrage that's being seen with this AP Torp.

    That 2x OD thing appears to be at the crux of the issue, not the Torp...yeah?

    So yeah, that should not have happened, imho.

    Just wanted to drop that out there, that I can see the folks being upset about that - regardless of the viability of the builds, the versatility it offers.

    But for the most part, the complaints just seem so over the top...and it's hard not to picture the family trip where one of the brats is whining because they're going to Universal instead of Disney even if they'd gone to Disney for the past three Summers.
    Everyone crying over this AP Torp would of kept their mouths shut if the Torp was of an energy weapon type they use.

    Thats what this all boils down to. Its not their flavor energy type so theyre angry about it.

    And it's a trip how many folks have come right out and said that, eh? It's such a trip...
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    That's just something out there that's happened for years, and has not generated anywhere near the outrage that's being seen with this AP Torp.

    The difference is:
    - AP already gets an extra 360 beam (which you acknowledged)
    - AP already gets a better proc, straight damage that is raised by crit skills / consoles / boffs

    So AP only now gets a torp that is buffed by AP consoles and energy weapon skills. Icing on the AP master race cake.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You know, it's just too easy to mock the folks crying that Cryptic did cake instead of pie...cause they're just going on and on about their particular flavor not getting something...and it's just kind of sad as well as funny - more sad the longer it goes on, though.

    Release Notes: October 30th, 2014
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=20336131



    IMHO, this should not have happened.

    I disagree wholeheartedly. First of all, there are many set bonuses that affect specific damage types, but none for AP. It was about time that AP got a set bonus. As it stands, this is a minor bonus, but at least it's something.

    Secondly, the fact that the set includes an AP 360 omni array isn't a bad thing. It isn't favortism and it isn't lopsided and it isn't unbalanced despite cries to the contrary. I only wish it had been a non-set piece so you could load more than one at a time.

    The mission reward is not the same as the crafted weapons. It has a very different damage output. Further, not every build will benefit from using 3 "omnis" in the back. Very few builds will. Most builds that have AP BAs are running a 4/4 setup and the mission omni is actually less DPS than if they simply broadsided with a proper BA.

    Thirdly, there are some people lumping the KCB into the omni category. It isn't. It just isn't. It fires 360-degress, but is a kinetic beam that is almost completely blocked by shields (just like torpedoes) and really only works against bare hulls. Its output is also less than the other weapons you can run and people usually take it for the 2pc borg set bonus.

    There is no problem with the mission reward AP omni. It is not a magic uber weapons. You get some synergy if you use it when on an AP build. You don't get the same mission reward in phaser, or disruptor, or plasma, but then again, there are other sets that give you different specific weapons for those other types.

    If you want a tetryon, phaser, disruptor, chroniton, or fill-in-the-blank, there is one already in a different set. Just use THAT. You don't need the ancient omni AP. You're making believe it's this uber thing and everybody else suffers because they don't want to use AP but MUST use this. That just isn't the case.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The difference is:
    - AP already gets an extra 360 beam (which you acknowledged)
    - AP already gets a better proc, straight damage that is raised by crit skills / consoles / boffs

    So AP only now gets a torp that is buffed by AP consoles and energy weapon skills. Icing on the AP master race cake.

    BS. I can take the same boffs, the same crtd and crth skills, and get equally great results on disruptor damage types. Nothing you list is specific to the AP damage type, and you seem to not understand the real rankings (and how little difference there is between them) while parroting comments you've heard shouted elsewhere. Not everything shouted on the Internet has truth behind it, just so you know...
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The op doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Antiproton by no means "gets everything". It's the only energy type so far as I know that has a set bonus to increase it that isn't worth using. The loss of your warp core for the rather terrible obelisk core isn't worth it, and only the obelisk can run the only other piece in the set aside from the beam/core.

    While antiproton does have the possibility of a second omni:D (crafted and ancient together) that only helps a handful of setups.. Namely 5/3 or 5/2 setups. It's pretty useless to anyone else. Other weapon types have similar toys, like the heavy turrets for disruptors or phasers. They're not useful to everyone either, but they exist.

    Personally, if they're not going to do anything to address the general uselessness of most procs then I'd rather they add new things for the one we actually use than throw in tachyon torpedoes we'd all just laugh at and couldn't care less about.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Shinnok, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're ranting at something for made up reasons.

    (...)

    This is why AP is king. The proc is just, simply, "more damage."

    Not heaps more, but "more."

    I'd say AP is simply King cause of the gratuitously built-in extra CrtD.
    Tetryon? Chance to strip a chunk of shields away (totally useless since NPCs regen shields so fast and have millions of hp).

    This I sorta disagree with, though. Tetryon is kinda useless because NPC shields are simply as good as non-existent, especially in STF's: by the time you arrive at the first Cube, chances are its relevant shield facing is already gone. In theory, Tetryon'd be ideal for torps boats; in reality, though, Tetryon just sucks. NPC's essentially simply tank hull. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    The op doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Antiproton by no means "gets everything". It's the only energy type so far as I know that has a set bonus to increase it that isn't worth using. The loss of your warp core for the rather terrible obelisk core isn't worth it, and only the obelisk can run the only other piece in the set aside from the beam/core.


    Haven't read everything yet, but someone argued the (ahem) set-bonus with Obelisk Core? LOL. That Core is a piece of fei-oo, and I wouldn't have it near my boat if Cryptic offered me RL money to slot the thang!

    And if peeps start to reason like that, then, OMG, Phasers are totally OP with the Counter-Command Ordinance 'set' bonus! LOL.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The difference is:
    - AP already gets an extra 360 beam (which you acknowledged)
    - AP already gets a better proc, straight damage that is raised by crit skills / consoles / boffs

    So AP only now gets a torp that is buffed by AP consoles and energy weapon skills. Icing on the AP master race cake.

    i know cryptic well enough to suspect this all just a prelude to an AP nerf.
    you just watch. when all these people grinding and crafting and upgrading epic AP kit start to slow down, cryptic will give it a 'balance pass' and choose some other energy as the new favourite.
    they pretty much did just that with polaron not long ago.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i know cryptic well enough to suspect this all just a prelude to an AP nerf.
    you just watch. when all these people grinding and crafting and upgrading epic AP kit start to slow down, cryptic will give it a 'balance pass' and choose some other energy as the new favourite.
    they pretty much did just that with polaron not long ago.


    I highly doubt it. Omni-beams aren't all that stellar to begin with (and only really useful for DBB boats). And Ancient Omni is the meh-est of them all.

    And using Disruptors, for instance? Just slot a Heavy Bio-Molecular Disruptor Turret, instead of a second Omni, and something from the Counter-Command Ordinance set as well, for your coveted set bonus (goes for Phasers too, btw). People just need to be a bit more inventive, is all.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You don't fly Fed, eh? AP's not the first "projectile" doing Energy.

    Did I miss some limited to one ship special weapon?
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • jarfarujarfaru Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    goodscotch wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to this and its been suggested before. Give a bonus to other energy types that are native to a particular faction. For example, Federation players would get a bonus if they use phasers on their vessels, Klingons would get a bonus if they use disruptors, etc.

    And leave AP out of the mix as being native to any particular faction.

    I like this idea. But its funny how the staple weapon in Star Trek the Phaser never receives anything from this company. They will buff up every weapon type before they do anything to the Phaser weapons. Its like they hate everything classic canon. All classic style fed ships should have +# for using Phaser weapons.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    i know cryptic well enough to suspect this all just a prelude to an AP nerf.
    you just watch. when all these people grinding and crafting and upgrading epic AP kit start to slow down, cryptic will give it a 'balance pass' and choose some other energy as the new favourite.
    they pretty much did just that with polaron not long ago.


    I agree with you but it will be 3 months or so to soak all of the dilithium out of all the new antiproton upgraders...Then it will be announced some ( Bug ) is why there being nerfed

    remember when plasma Rep energy weapons were so good !,,,, ~~~~~

    What a innocent way to suck the dilithium or of players right !

    I like this idea. But its funny how the staple weapon in Star Trek the Phaser never receives anything from this company. They will buff up every weapon type before they do anything to the Phaser weapons. Its like they hate everything classic canon. All classic style fed ships should have +# for using Phaser weapons.

    phasers have to suck

    you cant sell the lock box alien ships using different ( better ) weapons if the Fed phaser ships are competitive now can you it would ruin the business model

    The ships also have to be 3rd rate

    just saying,,,,,,,,,, The lock boxes must Flow..........................
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jarfaru wrote: »
    I like this idea. But its funny how the staple weapon in Star Trek the Phaser never receives anything from this company. They will buff up every weapon type before they do anything to the Phaser weapons. Its like they hate everything classic canon. All classic style fed ships should have +# for using Phaser weapons.


    Phasers got nerfed because, as usual, PvP-ers starting complaining, bitterly, about, boo-hoo, their subsystems getting offline. And, also as usual, they got their way.

    So, just give Phasers something else, like an extra CrtH (akin to the extra CrtD for AP).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Phasers did get a pretty reasonable buff from the Counter Command 2-pc set, it adds bonus (end of calculation) damage which works out about equal to an extra spire tac console. So they are not totally forgotten.

    AP is just seen as the best because you see a lot of the most expensive builds using it, therefore people assume it must be superior.

    There are some very good players out there who could kill you just as fast as using AP by throwing boffs out of the airlock at you, it's more to do with how you fly than the actual kit.

    The only real advantages AP has over others is that it has access to an extra Omni-beam array (which whilst not great is better than a rear facing gun you never fire) and that you can actually affect how much the proc helps you by changing your crit values.
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  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jarfaru wrote: »
    I like this idea. But its funny how the staple weapon in Star Trek the Phaser never receives anything from this company. They will buff up every weapon type before they do anything to the Phaser weapons. Its like they hate everything classic canon. All classic style fed ships should have +# for using Phaser weapons.

    You could also do this with a duty officer skill. Federation Phaser Specialist, Klingon Disruptor Engineer, Romulan Plasma Weapons Scientist. If you have that crewman slotted as Active Space, you get whatever the bonus is.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    goodscotch wrote: »
    You could also do this with a duty officer skill. Federation Phaser Specialist, Klingon Disruptor Engineer, Romulan Plasma Weapons Scientist. If you have that crewman slotted as Active Space, you get whatever the bonus is.

    I had no idea such doffs existed.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    goodscotch wrote: »
    You could also do this with a duty officer skill. Federation Phaser Specialist, Klingon Disruptor Engineer, Romulan Plasma Weapons Scientist. If you have that crewman slotted as Active Space, you get whatever the bonus is.

    Best make it an innate Trait then (that you can select).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    potasssium wrote: »
    I had no idea such doffs existed.

    They don't. We're kicking around an idea to bring other energy type weapons up to speed. See earlier posts.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    Did I miss some limited to one ship special weapon?

    Based on the "you don't fly fed", I'd assume he's referring to the saturation bomb console, a projectile like console that's buffed (to absurd proportions) by the phaser tac consoles.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I disagree wholeheartedly. First of all, there are many set bonuses that affect specific damage types, but none for AP. It was about time that AP got a set bonus. As it stands, this is a minor bonus, but at least it's something.

    Ehm, there is, though Roms cant use it (at least not on warbirds), its the 2pc Obelisk-Set. And its a nifty 10% flatbonus (which is currently one of the greatest flatbonus out there, at least for setboni). The only downside is, you have to sacrifice your warpcore for it, and of course a single weapon (as opposed to a console+weapon).


    The torp might work great on a defiant or kumari, where you can use TS3 and APB3 (doffed) on global CD. Of course when I mean defiant, I mean DHC+the one torp defiant. Everything besides DHCs is just a bad taste after all.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Based on the "you don't fly fed", I'd assume he's referring to the saturation bomb console, a projectile like console that's buffed (to absurd proportions) by the phaser tac consoles.

    Isn't that limited to Patrol Escorts?

    Could it actually use projectile abilities like MDP/TS or HY?

    The level 40 Patrol Escorts were ugly enough, and not in the good way, that I didn't take a second look at the Tempest, even if I did I had Kumaris and the Defiant Refit.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Ehm, there is, though Roms cant use it (at least not on warbirds), its the 2pc Obelisk-Set. And its a nifty 10% flatbonus (which is currently one of the greatest flatbonus out there, at least for setboni). The only downside is, you have to sacrifice your warpcore for it, and of course a single weapon (as opposed to a console+weapon).


    The torp might work great on a defiant or kumari, where you can use TS3 and APB3 (doffed) on global CD. Of course when I mean defiant, I mean DHC+the one torp defiant. Everything besides DHCs is just a bad taste after all.
    On the upside, you'd probably want to use the 360 array anyways, unless you're doing a cannon build.

    And the Obelisk core is a lot cheaper than the Fleet [Amp] core. :P
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  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Ehm, there is, though Roms cant use it (at least not on warbirds), its the 2pc Obelisk-Set. And its a nifty 10% flatbonus (which is currently one of the greatest flatbonus out there, at least for setboni). The only downside is, you have to sacrifice your warpcore for it, and of course a single weapon (as opposed to a console+weapon).


    The torp might work great on a defiant or kumari, where you can use TS3 and APB3 (doffed) on global CD. Of course when I mean defiant, I mean DHC+the one torp defiant. Everything besides DHCs is just a bad taste after all.

    Which would be cool and all, except fleet cores are stat-wise better than the obelisk core, AMP comes out to be about even with the set bonus, and normal arrays beat out the 2--set.
    Isn't that limited to Patrol Escorts?

    Could it actually use projectile abilities like MDP/TS or HY?

    The level 40 Patrol Escorts were ugly enough, and not in the good way, that I didn't take a second look at the Tempest, even if I did I had Kumaris and the Defiant Refit.

    It's limited to Patrol Escort Refits, and does enough damage without TS/HY/anything else - it's not a torp, it's a console of boom.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Which would be cool and all, except fleet cores are stat-wise better than the obelisk core, AMP comes out to be about even with the set bonus, and normal arrays beat out the 2--set.

    Still, it exists. And it doesnt even cost dilthium. You cant really ask for more, at least not when it comes to AP.
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I have three characters. One uses AP, another uses poloron, the other corrosive plasma. Each do excellent in their own right when stacked with the appropriate consoles, etc.

    My AP user in her Breen Carrier has crafted beams with heightened procs, the DPS is sufficient to kill what I want to kill. My poloron user in her Samsar Cruiser has significantly less DPS but uses a combination of consoles and other goodies to compensate. Sure, it might take her longer to take down a Borg Cube but she won’t drop below 80% hull health doing it.

    My CP user flies her Scimitar and S-H-R-E-D-S things to pieces. Corrosive plasma DHCs + Beams + consoles and the RF Plasma Torp on her aft and she basically Death Blossoms everything.

    AP isn’t OP. Or, should I say, EVERY weapon type can be OP if built correctly (weapons + consoles + traits + skills). Perhaps before demanding that AP is OP we should consider your build?
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