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Science shared cooldowns
battykoda0
Member Posts: 959 Arc User
Why oh why does everything share the same cooldowns?
If I want to use feedback pulse, I can't use science team or transfer shield strength.
If I want to use gravity well, I can't use tyken's rift.
Hazard emitters has an insanely long cooldown (compared to ET and A2SIF) so I can't use EPtS in my only two engineering seats as they are needed for hull heals. (Though as much as I blow up with 86k hull and I have to click a heal 20 times to get it register, I guess that doesn't much matter.
) I might get by with a single A2SIF and not notice too many more fireballs.
I'll try that but in the meantime, if someone has a suggestion, I'm all open for it.
Or give up a tactical seat and forget about spamming APB with FAW.
If I want to use feedback pulse, I can't use science team or transfer shield strength.
If I want to use gravity well, I can't use tyken's rift.
Hazard emitters has an insanely long cooldown (compared to ET and A2SIF) so I can't use EPtS in my only two engineering seats as they are needed for hull heals. (Though as much as I blow up with 86k hull and I have to click a heal 20 times to get it register, I guess that doesn't much matter.
) I might get by with a single A2SIF and not notice too many more fireballs.I'll try that but in the meantime, if someone has a suggestion, I'm all open for it.
Or give up a tactical seat and forget about spamming APB with FAW.
Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
Post edited by battykoda0 on
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Then again this game is so fast anymore that that kind of tactical consideration is wasted, which makes the shared cooldowns more an annoyance than a mehcanic to be considered.
But you asked why, not whether or not it was relevant, so... there's why.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
True enough. I just need to give up a tactical seat and see how it works. A dead ship is not a shooting ship and dead tac seats don't fire weapons.
EDIT: The problem is more of a limit to hull heals. I can keep the shields up with the engineers but I have to give up a tactical officer for another engineer.
One of the easiest sets to get with a strong hull heal is probably the Assimilated Set
The new Kobali ship comes with a useful console and I believe also a Mastery Trait for it.
But the new Kobali ship also comes with a useful console for this.
Also some hull damage you may take can come from effects that hazard emitters can clear - even it's uptime is lower than that of other heals, you may find it more useful than a heal you can use more often - simply because you counter damage by clearing plasma fires.
If you use Emergency Power to Shields and distribute your shields (possibly aided by tactical team), you won't take much hull damage. Emergency Power to Shields doesn't just heal your shields - it provides the shields with extra shield damage reduction. That means you (or rather your shields) can take more damage than you normally could.
Once you can keep your shields up very consistently, the major threat to your hull is just bleedhtrough (major risk factor: Tri-Cobalts and other heavy torpedoes) and plasma fires. And that's where even a single Hazard Emitter can shine.
But if you want more (Bridge Officer) hull heals still, you can use one Emerngency Power to Shields aided by Damage Control Engineers Duty Officers. That will lower the cooldown of EptS so you will have a good uptime still, and can pop an additional hull heal.
I am going by memory, but I think my Science Vessels often use two Hazard Emitters, a Science Team and a Transfer Shield Strength, and Emerngecy Power to Shields and Auxilliary. The lower level slots for Science are great for utility and heals, while the lt.Cmdr+ slots are best used for offensive powers like Gravity Well and Tractor Beam Repulsors.
I use the Undine Counter-Command on the Pathfinder and the Dyson Set on the Scryer.
I used to do similar things on the Vesta and the Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit.
Thank you! Giving up a tactical seat for an engineer kept me from blowing up but cost me 6k dps. APB + FAW adds that much? :eek: When I only do 15k, that is a huge chunk gone.
I died once in ISA and that is because I bit off more sphere than I could chew and choked to death on them.
Now, with the current powercreep, I'm not sure that would be OP anymore, not more than a scimitard with APs and plasma doping anyway.
I am going by memory, but I think my Science Vessels often use two Hazard Emitters, a Science Team and a Transfer Shield Strength, and Emerngecy Power to Shields and Auxilliary. The lower level slots for Science are great for utility and heals, while the lt.Cmdr+ slots are best used for offensive powers like Gravity Well and Tractor Beam Repulsors.
I use the Undine Counter-Command on the Pathfinder and the Dyson Set on the Scryer.
I used to do similar things on the Vesta and the Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit.
The plasma doping is ridicilous, at least going by what I read about it. It probably needs a nerf.
The main problem with GW + TR is that it's practically something that can stun lock a group of ships. NPCs don't complain, but for PvP, it would be ruineous. Without the shared cooldown*, you could do it with a single ship! There are of course counters, but if you can affect a group just by yourself you are bound to catch someone...
Because they cancel each other out. If you drop a GW on a target, then wait 15 seconds to pop a TR on it, the TR cancels out the GW even if the GW had time left on it. Same goes for GWs de-spawning TRs. They cannot exist in the same area at the same time.
So, practically speaking, why not allow them to be fired off faster? It would just be Darwinism in effect. Impatient players would lessen their own attacks by despawning effects prematurely.
I ws actually not aware that TR cancels out GW. I am not sure that was always the case.
THent he good thing of the global cooldown is that you can't do this by accident.
Besides that... imagine there was no global cool downs.... and you pop EVERYTHING you got.
Now for 60s you sit there and stare at timers. It would be boring as heck.
The simple answer that doesn't involve polarizing answers like "balance" is game design. A game that stays active and keeps you engaged and thinking the entire time is better then one where you simply "fire everything" and then sit on your hands waiting for it to recharge. lol
3 Tac, 3 Eng, 3 Sci...and I'm happy...the other 3-4 can vary, but I always get antsy if I've got less than 3 of each.
Because Sci have the most abilities...have the fewest triggered CDs...and...er...
Well, you can throw a GW and if it gets aftershocks, you can spit the Tyken's right in there. Too bad we can't slot two variations of aftershock doffs. That would be awesome.
Well, he is right on the abilities part and the shared cooldowns part, but the cooldowns in general suck for sci.
Seems doubtful. So far, Delta RIsing has given us 3 different Fed Science Vessels!
And the problem aren't shared cooldowns, really. Globals are what limits a power like Tranfser Shield Strength or Hazard Emitters.
Engineering has a real shared cooldown problem. On the ensign level, there are only 2 subsystems in play (or rather, with the team powers now no longer having those shared cooldowns, one). The Emergency Powers may have a great overlap, but you can still not really utilize more than 2 of them without running into rotation problems. There is little value in a 3rd engineering BO slot, because you quickly have system and global cooldown conflicts. And worse - on the top end, you don't even have useful powers. Sure, DEM may add a bit of DPS, but it's not exactly the strongest buff here, and the rest of the powers are pretty superflous or outright bad. Aceton Beam? Boarding Party? Reverse Shield Polarity used to be popular, but with all the passive heals and the massive damage, who needs a come-back button?
A third science slot is awesome to have - you can equip HE, TSS and Science Team. (And in PvP, I'd argue Tractor Beam would also leave room for a fourth science slot), and it isn't bad to double up on any of them. And you have no conflict with the high level offensive powers. NOt all of them are good, but there are at least a few that will help you beat up NPCs.
NOTE: I seem to be failing miserably at adjusting to the new BOFF system.
Just my contribution comes to 45525 ish per second roughly (admittedly that's a spike total with no resists accounted for but it's still a valid starting point) Then you add in photo fleet and Nimbus pirates which I think are probably 5 or 6k each under those circumstances.
In short: Sci is silly powerful already, we don't need more.
There are in fact very few Science shared cool downs anymore. When the game launched there where many more. The idea is 2 fold and it all revolved around balanced and game play. The idea being that Sci would be (and it is) overpowered in PvP if the game allowed one player to overwhelm someone or some NPC with every science skill at once. Also gameplay wise many skills are 45s-1m cool downs, before the days of doffs and gear that lowered cool downs. Imagine how boring it would be to click 6 of your buttons and then have nothing to push for 55s.
The globals are as follows.
Teams... are all decouples now. (previously one team type engi/sci/tac shared a cool down but that has been changed). So science team shares a global with nothing at all. The only skill that would be locked out by science team is another copy of science team.
Gravity Well / Tykens Rift - These 2 share a global.. this is 100% a balance issue. Especially that the game now has cool down doffs no shared here and a couple procs could mean having both up at the doff global which would perhaps be very overpowered. (however they USED to share a cool down as well with Transfer Shield strength and that was removed a few years ago)
Tractor beam and Tractorbeam Repulsors share a global... beyond the logic of it... think about how balanced it would be for a ship to hold something in place while pushing it for dmg at the same time.
TBP / TSS shared global... this is the only other one that people would run into anymore. This is one system global that I like very much. Honestly having this setup this way saves many a noobies life in PvP. Forcing them to roll some defense instead of pop it all the min they hit the frying pan.
So in short yes globals are just fine. The game is also not setup to punish science. Think about engi. You can't roll 2 Systems of Emergency power for instance, but due to globals you can't run 3. (This is by design and for balance... a engi heavy cruiser can't run around with 125 125 125 125) On an escort you can't Pop Omega 3 + Delta 2 + Beta 1 all at once either Attack patterns share a cool down for a very good reason. Neither can you fire off say Cannon rapid fire + scatter... or Run Fire at will and overload at the same time (or even right after as they add system cool downs... to prevent a crazy amount of DPS).
With the Engi and Sci cool downs in mind it only makes sense that a Sci can't Throw out a Gravity Well Tykens, while tractoring a target and repulsor pushing it for dmg all at once either.
On my Particle Manipulator boat... I can Gravity well that will tick for around 3k a tick (cause its always a crit). I can fly around inside the well... pulling things in further with a Reveresed TBR that hits for a round 6k a hit... while dumping Eject warp plasma that hits for a ton of dmg as well... and its all direct to hull dmg. lol Ya sci doesn't need any help doing dmg right now at all. (to top that off we just got new secondary deflectors that boost dmg on targets we have sensor ann on...as well as a uni console that boosts exotic dmg over 20% just being sloted... and the anchor launched in the middle of a mess like that is even more dmg and holding crazyness)
How do you get up to 400 (Or is it 500? I can't remember the details) particle gens? I've got to 289 but that involved getting a lot of dilithium... I suppose trading EPtW for EPtA would get me to 309 but that's still a long way off...
99 captain skill+solanae deflector epic(50)+2nd deflector(25 @ epic)+[prtg] R&D level 15 sci and eng consoles[epic](112.5)+4 embassy [prtg] [epic] (150)
Just that gets you there to around 437. I could keep going with special universal consoles, traits, and other fun stuff.
Doff assignment crit +25
Fleet boost +10
I'm not in game so these numbers super ball park.
4 MK 14 Embassy Pgens = 140
One Crafted Sci [pgen] = 60
One Crafted RCS = 50
Deflector 40
Secondary Deflector 30
Nukura Consoles (not running this one myself but some people do) 20
Skills 99
That's around 440 and ya... 400 is 100% as its 25% crit per 100 I think on PM trait.
I know my numbers are a little off as I'm not in game but that should be pretty close. Mostly getting over 400 means running both crafted consoles with [pgen] and choosing a high Pgen Deflector like the solane, there are a few good deflectors though, and the secondary deflector adds some more now. (just run the MK 2 upgrade weapon trick on your secondary deflectors to make sure you get a gold with the extra Pgen on it)
Plasma doping may be a problem with things like the scimatar and other tactical ships but that plasma damage also makes it so that science ships are actually viable at all. I have a pure drain build using the dominion polaron/tetryon weapons. I am using a dauntless as an engineering captain and with 5 of those flow cap consoles that do plasma damage I parse at about 11K. Without them I probably would not break 6K.
If they are going to take away plasma doping then you have to realize it will only drop some of those super extreme tactical builds from 90K to 70K or so. That will make basically no impact on the game but it will also completely TRIBBLE over any science ship and make it even harder to do anything other than an AP build.