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Proposal: Gate Advanced/Elite queues
sinn74
Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
I'll save the preface, since it's been discussed/argued over/trolled enough since DR.
Gating the Advanced and/or Elite queues could be (theoretically) implemented as follows:
A single player (skippable) mission, at the end of a story arc, in each player's journal. Let's, for example, take Infected Space Advanced.
At the end of the Borg story arc, there appears a few missions- one being "Infected Space Simulator." This mission is single player only. You can not get help from someone else to complete this mission. Period. This mission is repeatable.
The mission begins the same as any Infected Space Advanced begins. Only, instead of other players, you are teamed with 4 NPCs. Two escort types, and either one cruiser/battlecruiser and one science vessel, or two cruisers/battlecruisers.
It is, effectively, Infected Space Advanced, albeit one with 75%(?) hitpoints for critters. There is a timer for this mission.
If objectives are not met, a popup stating "You are not yet ready for this engagement" is displayed.
If successful, a score will appear, and you will receive an accolade. This accolade will unlock the Advanced version of Infected Space for this character. The accolade will take into consideration 1. time, 2. # of deaths, and 3. DPS. If one completes this by buffing the NPCs, it helps with time (and the overall DPS). If one does high DPS, it helps with time. If one dies repeatedly, it detracts from time. One can heal the NPCs, as they can be destroyed.
I think this would work with any and all queues. It can't be "gamed," unless someone plays your account for you. And, if there is an "Elite" version of the STF, an additional accolade can be acquired based on score, as well. One could gain all accolades from a single mission based upon score, thus unlocking Advanced and Elite, if applicable.
If one does not acquire these accolades, one can not join Advanced or Elite queues. These missions can be completed once for all requirements, thus not being a massive hassle to acquire, for those who already know how to do this content.
No one complains about not being able to learn the STFs, no one complains about people not knowing what they're doing (in a general sense), and no one has to do these if they choose not to do so. They aren't 100% of the strength of the actual STFs, so there would be some learning- but they would be harder than Normal, and closer to what the actual Advanced or Elite STFs would be like.
TL;DR a repeatable, skippable mission to see if one can unlock Advanced difficulty in queues.
Gating the Advanced and/or Elite queues could be (theoretically) implemented as follows:
A single player (skippable) mission, at the end of a story arc, in each player's journal. Let's, for example, take Infected Space Advanced.
At the end of the Borg story arc, there appears a few missions- one being "Infected Space Simulator." This mission is single player only. You can not get help from someone else to complete this mission. Period. This mission is repeatable.
The mission begins the same as any Infected Space Advanced begins. Only, instead of other players, you are teamed with 4 NPCs. Two escort types, and either one cruiser/battlecruiser and one science vessel, or two cruisers/battlecruisers.
It is, effectively, Infected Space Advanced, albeit one with 75%(?) hitpoints for critters. There is a timer for this mission.
If objectives are not met, a popup stating "You are not yet ready for this engagement" is displayed.
If successful, a score will appear, and you will receive an accolade. This accolade will unlock the Advanced version of Infected Space for this character. The accolade will take into consideration 1. time, 2. # of deaths, and 3. DPS. If one completes this by buffing the NPCs, it helps with time (and the overall DPS). If one does high DPS, it helps with time. If one dies repeatedly, it detracts from time. One can heal the NPCs, as they can be destroyed.
I think this would work with any and all queues. It can't be "gamed," unless someone plays your account for you. And, if there is an "Elite" version of the STF, an additional accolade can be acquired based on score, as well. One could gain all accolades from a single mission based upon score, thus unlocking Advanced and Elite, if applicable.
If one does not acquire these accolades, one can not join Advanced or Elite queues. These missions can be completed once for all requirements, thus not being a massive hassle to acquire, for those who already know how to do this content.
No one complains about not being able to learn the STFs, no one complains about people not knowing what they're doing (in a general sense), and no one has to do these if they choose not to do so. They aren't 100% of the strength of the actual STFs, so there would be some learning- but they would be harder than Normal, and closer to what the actual Advanced or Elite STFs would be like.
TL;DR a repeatable, skippable mission to see if one can unlock Advanced difficulty in queues.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Because the AI can be counted on to shoot at vulnerable targets and not the constantly-regenerating generators or gate...
And how do you propose Kitomer be handled? There's too many things there for one player to deal with.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Like a PUG you mean?
Sure, why not, so you're proposing a PUG simulator for new players that would forever gate them from Advanced and Elite. Bad idea is bad.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Not a bad idea. I would only add the requirement for some queues that require the player to interact with objects (Azure Nebula, Borg Disconnected) also require the player to do so in this 'unlock' mission.
Sadly though it will not happen. Just like improving STO tutorials will not happen. And I don't mean actual tutorials I mean things like the default weapon setup of ships when you get them which are absolutely terrible.
One would have to be doing most of the work for this to complete. A worse idea is just letting your "new players" crash Advanced queues they can't do- and ruin it for 4 other people.
The only ones who stand to lose from this are people leeching rewards in queues they shouldn't be in anyway.
Nope. Stupid.
I don't want to be unable to play more of the game than I already can't.
Bad idea. Close this thread and incinerate it.
Cryptic melting a few special snowflakes and putting the special currencies and mats down in Normal would also solve most of your problem.
Yeah, every one would be different (corresponding to whichever arc it best suits), I just picked what I thought was the most recognizable STF for an example. I think every Advanced or Elite STF should require something like this.
If they were interested in doing this I'd make it purely solo and reduce the number of monsters/tasks. Just one generator, one gate one shipyard etc...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
1) A tutorial mission that teaches you how to make a private queue, make friends, and then invite them to a private queue.
2) A "Kobiyashi Maru" type game that gives you no XP, Expertise, or rewards. It only teaches you how to accept a defeat.
How does me being in 30k DPS channel runs help someone learn a STF? Or stop someone from ruining a group of average players running a public queue?
It would only stop you if you are already just leeching off Advanced content now. :rolleyes:
If you want a mission to teach the player how to complete an STF, it needs to take into account the fact that it's still just one player and it needs to be able to accommodate all possible play styles. Removing the timer would be the first step. It should still alert the player at the end if they would have completed it within the STF time constraints, but it should not gate the content entirely. The player would at least learn that they must target certain things first in order to succeed.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
You seem a bit too disdainful to be actually helping anyone.
But it won't. Sure, it might reduce some of the problem - but it won't solve it.
Using totally fictional numbers based off of some of the things talked about...
Mission: 1 E-Mark
Normal: 2 E-Mark
Advanced: 3 E-Mark
Elite: 4 E-Mark
(see, totally fictional - just as an example)
So the person can spend X amount of time to get 1 E-Mark...
...or they can hope to be carried through Normal in the same or shorter amount of time to get 2 E-Marks...
...or they can hope to be carried through Advanced in the same or shorter amount of time to get 3 E-Marks...
...or they can hope to be carried through Elite in the same or shorter amount of time to get 4 E-Marks.
Cause that's basically what happens, no? Cause even most Elites it is possible to carry one or two folks that are just leeching, some perhaps only one. And well, that's just tends to work. When it slaps 3-4 if not all 5 folks there looking to be carried...it's a failgasm.
Even if it was the reverse up there, 4 for the mission and 1 for Elite...there are still folks that would leech the Elite since for the mission they might actually have to do something.
As true Kirk emulators we can skip both of those steps.
Although I understand that OP is slightly disappointed and annoyed with PUG capability, I believe that planned mission is meaningless.
For Tactical Captains mission would depend upon NPC capability not to blow generators and their DPS and crowd control capabilities, it's better for newbie player to immediately quees him/herself for Borg disconnected Elite than to depend on NPC in Infected space Advanced with 75%HP.
Engineering and Science captains with this type of mission should forget STF altogether. Their crowd control and heals would mean nothing to NPC and their DPS performance alone wouldn't be enough for mission completion.
Players who complete sinn74-s mission should get Pakled accolade - dumb luck.
Maybe and then again maybe not.
The mission could act as a litmus test.
I remember that when i got to 50 on my main character i replayed the episode from the (recently revamped) Romulan arc with the planetary shield and monster DD with scary HY plasma torpedoes.
While i was at level 50 (roughly season 5) i took on that mission first on advanced and later on elite with my Akira heavy escort simply because i was determined not to be a burden once i entered (as i viewed them back then) godlike difficult STF normal. After that training and practice on how to survive with a thin skinned escort i was actually bored by the difficulty in stf normal and moved to advanced.- edit: my bad. it was elite back then
I had chat open and looked and listened, made my share of mistakes and learned. A threshold mission could act much like that romulan storyline mission did for me. It's a litmus test.
Aside from that "unlock" mission i would argue that people who have injuries should not be able to enter advanced and elite content. Healing your injuries is an integral part of advanced and elite content and only allowing those who master that art to enter is not too much to ask.
For public queues, yeah? If folks want to do stuff in private queues with friends, let them have it - right?
All in all though, it's pretty difficult to think of something that would help - I know I'm trying to be more positive in not shooting down partial fixes; but it's just tough and frustrating. Like I posted in another thread...
...folks aren't just potentially ruining the run for that team - they're potentially killing the game.
COMMUNICATION
Hardly anyone communicates in STFs. Its all "assume they know what they're doing and go". Heck... even trying to coordinate when things start going wrong in an attempt to salvage the STF falls on deaf ears. Some times I get in one where there's decent communication, but most of the time its total silence in the chatbox or in some instances insults at "Not being good enough".
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While the idea needs tweaking, the idea is good.
Honestly though I'd be happy if you could not enter Advanced with anything less than MK XI equipment and you could not enter Elite with anything less than MK XII. Even greens would do. If you got one MK II array on your ship you could not enter, same things go for ground as well.
Also, both for ground and space, healing. You could not enter either Advanced or Elite without having healed you or your ship first and would get a warning pop-up if you did not bring healing kits/spare parts.
People play Bug Hunt with tons of wounds, and not just the odd person but quite a few. You tell them to heal and some says 'ok. <pause> How do I heal?'.
1. What would you do for people that have already done thoes on other toons, I have 8 chars. that are all tier 5 in omega as a example, if I start a alt do I have to go thru the whole thing again or do I have a way to bypass it.
2. In all honestly is there really anything to learn in the STF's they are the exact same every time you play them there is zero change, zero chance for anything to do anything to counter you other then the 1 shot kills at random.
There is just steps that have to be taken in a certain order if so whats to stop them from acting a fool or thinking hey I could do this in my solo adventures/training why don't I do it now
3. There could be a gear score but then you have all the gear in this game locked behind the requirements of the harder STF's (like BNP's being adv or elite only ) Yes I know you don't require them but lets be honest a new person wont know how to.
the thing you have to keep in mind when you are demanding these changes is that you are driving away the new blood in the game. remember you didn't have to do these when you started and to demand others now do it can seem a little off-putting
It may be driving away some, but on the other hand there's always those who are on the fence because this is just yet another one of 'those' games. If this changes they may very well decide to come here.
That being said, what are we talking about exactly since we pretty much got two-three space queues barely going and some two-odd ground queues. Oh wait, that was just a graphical bug. :-p Queues are full everyone, queues are full.
What if the game had something akin to certifications one could earn (basically accolades) from running missions out of the academies?
Something that might not be a case of getting those accolades while flying one build only to hop into another build where one might not have been able to get those accolades...so rather there was the knowledge/some ability sort of accolades, cause that would more likely carry over to multiple builds, yadda-yadda-yadda. And since it would be more of a test of player knowledge/ability than just ability in a particular ship, it's something that could be done as an account unlock.
The player knows these things...and...that doesn't change just because they've changed builds sort of thing.
With that, there could be varying levels allowing access to increased difficulty tiers of group content.
STO School? What's this fool talking about? Lol, yeah - it does kind of start to come off like that, eh? I don't know...like I started this post off, heh - I'm kind of a knowledge guy. I like learning about the games I'm playing, so I don't think twice about trying to learn stuff about a game I'm playing.
Oh well...
1. 75%, or whatever, could be 50%? Just throwing a number out there. It's definitely not a "if done exactly this way" thing. I'm sure it could be tweaked until it made more sense.
2. If one can and does do the content already, It's what- a 5 minute mission to unlock the queues? Admittedly, I only have 5 alts, so it wouldn't be that big a deal to me.
3. I envision popup boxes once per account (which can be disabled or not), with things like "x needs to be completed in order to succeed." Definitely not just OK PLAYER, GO!
4. This definitely isn't "LOL n00bs stay out of the queues." It's more of "No one else is teaching you these things, or you just don't care to learn."
5. Stopping to type during a timed objective can be difficult- and even then, does the person speak your language? Will they listen to what you're saying anyway? Do they flat out not care that they don't know what they're doing?
6. The "But science/engineering characters can't do this" is flat out wrong. I have (undergeared) sci alts that can do it. There are Science captains at 75k DPS!
7. This is less "OMG PUGs suck I don't like them," than "The average person is often teamed with people who are ruining their chances at success." I can type "LF4m ISA" and get a team in around 2 minutes, with a guaranteed success rate. The average person, at 7k-12k likely can't- or they wouldn't be queueing up publicly.
8. I would add that Private queues would bypass this entirely. One would only need the accolade(s) to join public queues.