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Ground PvP Concerns Directory 3.5

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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    I haven't experimented with those cells/seen them being used but my thought would be if the they are indeed not respecting knock back resist it may be by design as they cost lobi. Never was an issue till that totally random change allowing those to be used on any weapon type.

    The Nanoenergy Cell - Kinetic Capacitor is not in the lobi store. They are obtained from the Jem'hadar mission "Second Wave" or crafted from level 5 Ground Weapons. They are also very broken. I ran into a team yesterday for several matches with all five players using them. I was getting chain knockback hit and knocked back even further before the first knockback had even expired due to this nanoenergy cell. It even worked when I crouched, but I use Sure Footed...that shouldn't be happening.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If the knockback it deals isn't resistable, sure footed will not help. The use of the word "immunity" is a bit misleading as all exploit attacks that can deal a knockback are by design, not resistable when the target is exposed. The question is then, are those cells supposed to be dealing a knockback that ignores resistance?
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    there are 6 energy cells in total 3 mission/crafting, 3 lobi store the lobi store are interesting and might ignore willpower/various things too, the kinetic cell is indeed crafted/mission.

    infact neural overload looks interesting

    10% chance stun target

    10% chance -50% runspeed to target

    10% chance removes all buffs from target

    i might do a lil testing with this .

    something to take note of you can activate all nano cells at once all buffs which you shouldnt be able to as it says in the info however all 5 of 6(you will retain the last buff you activated) will vanish once you swap map but while on a map you can consume and use and stack all 6 up die respawn and keep all 6 item buffs/about 14 ish buffs in total/procs that definitely requires looking at

    but honestly you can stack in total just shy of 34 ish buffs on ground from devices all working together, probably more if i ever bother to gather every single one i came close once
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    TR-116. I have to agree with this. Something has to be done with this weapon. I like the over all idea,but the implications in PvP is insane. I bought one just to try it out in STFs. I like the shield penetration, but it is far to easy for one tac or anyone player running good damage buffs or traits to one shot a player.

    I do have numerous ideas to make this weapon viable and but not OP:

    Make it like the Elachi Hand Cannon, don't allow buffs to work on it. This is the least favorite fix.

    Cut shield pen down to 20-30% against players.

    Make it where resistance debuffs are not effected by this weapon.

    Slow down the reaction of secondary and primary shots.

    One thing I do like this weapon is the sniper shot does not have a line running to the other player.

    As for now, I refuse to use this weapon in PvP. I also think any player that does is pretty despicable. I am not talk about the player that breaks it out in response to someone else is using it. By all means I will use if it is used against me first. It is up to the community to monitor ourselves and post good feedback to the Devs. Blaming it on the mechanics of the game is also unacceptable. Just because you can do something does not make it right.
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    frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yes, good call pointing that issue out, I had completely forgotten about it. This issue has a significant negative effect on classes that rely on exposes to deal significant damage to enemy targets (Medics, Engineer tanks, defensive tacticals).
    14. Expose chance on abilities
    Issue: The expose chance proc is incorrectly cut in half on kit and captain abilities. Abilities such as Fuse Armor that previously had 10% expose chance now only have 5% expose chance. See this post for a detailed explanation.
    Status: To be advised by Cryptic

    I decided to take another look at this after Season 9.5. Some, but not all, science abilities are affected. Fuse Armor and Weapons Malfunction are affected; I can't think of any other engineering abilities that might be affected. I have filed a bug report here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1190331
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
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    rakija879rakija879 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    TR-116. I have to agree with this. Something has to be done with this weapon. I like the over all idea,but the implications in PvP is insane. I bought one just to try it out in STFs. I like the shield penetration, but it is far to easy for one tac or anyone player running good damage buffs or traits to one shot a player.

    I do have numerous ideas to make this weapon viable and but not OP:

    Make it like the Elachi Hand Cannon, don't allow buffs to work on it. This is the least favorite fix.

    Cut shield pen down to 20-30% against players.

    Make it where resistance debuffs are not effected by this weapon.

    Slow down the reaction of secondary and primary shots.

    One thing I do like this weapon is the sniper shot does not have a line running to the other player.

    As for now, I refuse to use this weapon in PvP. I also think any player that does is pretty despicable. I am not talk about the player that breaks it out in response to someone else is using it. By all means I will use if it is used against me first. It is up to the community to monitor ourselves and post good feedback to the Devs. Blaming it on the mechanics of the game is also unacceptable. Just because you can do something does not make it right.

    In my experience the pvp ground combat was always more or less 2 shoot kill.
    True the TR makes that one shoot in the hands of tac captain.
    Devs should maybe separate pvp and pve "THINGS " like the flanking bonus.
    Because nerfing if all together would just make it gather virtual dust in my bank.:)
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    semodo1semodo1 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    TR-116.

    As for now, I refuse to use this weapon in PvP. I also think any player that does is pretty despicable. I am not talk about the player that breaks it out in response to someone else is using it. By all means I will use if it is used against me first. It is up to the community to monitor ourselves and post good feedback to the Devs. Blaming it on the mechanics of the game is also unacceptable. Just because you can do something does not make it right.

    I could not agree more with this sentiment.

    As for the TR-116, the shield penetration needs to be reduced and also respect shield resistance stats.
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    semodo1 wrote: »
    I could not agree more with this sentiment.

    As for the TR-116, the shield penetration needs to be reduced and also respect shield resistance stats.

    How much you want to bet that we'll see a shield either in the lobi store or a new rep tier that will offer some protection against it? At this point I doubt very highly that the gun will be nerfed.

    @simeion1: I agree the community should monitor itself to not intentionally use bugged items/powers. In the case of the tr-116 though, it functions as intended and everyone you talk to is going to have a different opinion on it. Some will say nerf (including me) some will say it's not strong enough. Doesn't make anyone "despicable". It just means they don't share your opinion. Tossing around words like that over a game is a bit inappropriate, but that's just my opinion. :P

    My suggestion for the tr-116 would be:

    20% shield penetration normally

    5% chance 100% shield penetration.

    Still get a nice bang shot once in awhile but it wouldn't feel so over the top like it does now. I would suggest a 30sec lockout on the proc but elachi junk would need it reinstated. That's another bone to pick I have with the devs though. :D
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    semodo1semodo1 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    How much you want to bet that we'll see a shield either in the lobi store or a new rep tier that will offer some protection against it? At this point I doubt very highly that the gun will be nerfed.

    @simeion1: I agree the community should monitor itself to not intentionally use bugged items/powers. In the case of the tr-116 though, it functions as intended and everyone you talk to is going to have a different opinion on it. Some will say nerf (including me) some will say it's not strong enough. Doesn't make anyone "despicable". It just means they don't share your opinion. Tossing around words like that over a game is a bit inappropriate, but that's just my opinion. :P

    My suggestion for the tr-116 would be:

    20% shield penetration normally

    5% chance 100% shield penetration.

    Still get a nice bang shot once in awhile but it wouldn't feel so over the top like it does now. I would suggest a 30sec lockout on the proc but elachi junk would need it reinstated. That's another bone to pick I have with the devs though. :D

    I'd say (although I don't and can't speak directly for @simeion1), but his reference to despicable behavior is probably levied at the same (type) player that is well known for using the latest broken, op or exploitable skill in order to get ahead or keep his fleet "on top" (win at all costs). In that regard, in my opinion, I'd say it's a perfect phrase for the conduct of that player.

    TR-116 related, it might be a craftable shield. Great.
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    20% shield pen was the original tr116b penetration % and it was beyond worthless, its like firing a torpedo v a shield next to no damage v the shield and the tiny bypass just isn't enough to kill, you can buff it as much as you want we tested this over and over a tr116b with 20% shield pen is not competitive, giving it 20% again would require a name change sniper rifle in rl ingame or any game powerful one hit head shot weapon, 20% tr116b does not fit that, and even with 100% shield bypass it can be beaten, that 20% bypass is simply healed up by passive in combat regen of 166% 266% out of combat, thats just my tact, notice i said tact, engineers and scis and tacts of different species can get far more completely making the old 20% it had horribly useless, chance of killing anyone who has a shield up 0%, chance of killing someone without a shield up 10%, as even low shield omega shield regen trait keeps shields popping back up and giving the full 80% reduction again.



    i spent 1.9 million dilithium, alot of it from rl cash = zen = dil, i spent 105 mill ec on the "data samples" crafting to gain tr116b early on since i've made a great deal of them with 20% and then the increased to 100% its my newest toy and if it turns into a sniper war i will use it, yes i used the 20% version and yes i used the 100%, in pvp and pve i will continue to do so at my own choosing. tbh mostly against users of the empathic feedback module you cant reflect kinetic back and i'm kinda sick of killing my self with my own attack

    if you cannot afford a tr116b then i make a offer a simple one, simply mail me and send components you can easily make from pve queues, wait 20 hours and i will send you the weapon, i do not desire payment for my services

    ground borg elite stf - plekton
    undine ground infiltration elite - dentarium
    cce - radiogenic particle
    undine space elite - argonite gas
    borg space elite - trellium k
    mine trap, nukara ground pve queue, rh'ihho station - craylon gas

    tr116b components require trellium k, craylon gas and dentarium

    disclaimer: i am not going to be held responsible for any future nerf to your tr-116b, even if i use it constantly to 100% shield bypass no laser sight warning one shot anything in my path :P
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    falklander1989falklander1989 Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You my savior,gonna pm you in game,cant wait to start kill evil sci ppl with it.:)
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    etherealplanesetherealplanes Member Posts: 414
    edited August 2014
    Good luck getting that bullet through my automated hypo :) and lots of kinetic resist
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    75% kinetic resists using a few buffs the 75% is max players can gain, it will still kill you right through it but so will energy weapons for that matter
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    cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The adrenal hypo should count as a dead, in that way PVE heros does not seen affected and PVP can be balance.

    And the Tr-118 really need to have their shield pen reduced! Who idea was to give us a gun that makes shield useless??
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The adrenal hypo should count as a dead, in that way PVE heros does not seen affected and PVP can be balance.

    And the Tr-118 really need to have their shield pen reduced! Who idea was to give us a gun that makes shield useless??

    Reducing the shield bypass on the TR-116B would be problematic because all ground shields get the free 75% resistance to kinetic. This would effectively make the weapon as useless as torpedoes against a starship shield in space. At the same time the 100% shield bypass is a bit too powerful against engineers. The weapon is also better than all sniper rifles because of the 100% shield bypass with no reduction in damage over other sniper rifles.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    etherealplanesetherealplanes Member Posts: 414
    edited August 2014
    The adrenal hypo should count as a dead, in that way PVE heros does not seen affected and PVP can be balance.

    And the Tr-118 really need to have their shield pen reduced! Who idea was to give us a gun that makes shield useless??

    If I had to guess the automated hypo was created to give sci a chance to survive 3 tactical trying to flying kick you to death. I have no issues using it as long as I keep seeing cloaking tactical around. I did try going without it some matches last night and still our team had overall sucsess. It seems most useful when the other 2 sci heals I have are exhausted. You guys do know it has power cool down reduction built in if it expires before you die. That is my favorite use of it to be honest.
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If I had to guess the automated hypo was created to give sci a chance to survive 3 tactical trying to flying kick you to death. I have no issues using it as long as I keep seeing cloaking tactical around. I did try going without it some matches last night and still our team had overall sucsess. It seems most useful when the other 2 sci heals I have are exhausted. You guys do know it has power cool down reduction built in if it expires before you die. That is my favorite use of it to be honest.


    I highly doubt there is any consideration for pvp when designing anything new.
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    tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »

    My suggestion for the tr-116 would be:

    20% shield penetration normally

    5% chance 100% shield penetration.

    I'd make it 50% shield penetration like other kinetic-based powers.

    EDIT:
    75% kinetic resists using a few buffs the 75% is max players can gain, it will still kill you right through it but so will energy weapons for that matter

    84% resistance is the max players can gain from armor + Dyson trait (~9%, untied to normal DR).

    With 100% dodge, it is likely to go above 90%.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
    STO Screenshot Archive

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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    75% you can get stats above you can hit 100% resists even in numbers but the real resists will only be 75% or at least should be as the hard cap
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    tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    75% you can get stats above you can hit 100% resists even in numbers but the real resists will only be 75% or at least should be as the hard cap

    The T1 Dyson trait is not linked to the 75% hard cap. It adds to it. (+9%)

    While Dodge does not directly affect your resistances, it is a different mechanic - another way to mitigate damage that has a multiplying effect over the final, effective resistance you can get.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
    STO Screenshot Archive

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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    How much you want to bet that we'll see a shield either in the lobi store or a new rep tier that will offer some protection against it? At this point I doubt very highly that the gun will be nerfed.

    @simeion1: I agree the community should monitor itself to not intentionally use bugged items/powers. In the case of the tr-116 though, it functions as intended and everyone you talk to is going to have a different opinion on it. Some will say nerf (including me) some will say it's not strong enough. Doesn't make anyone "despicable". It just means they don't share your opinion. Tossing around words like that over a game is a bit inappropriate, but that's just my opinion. :P

    My suggestion for the tr-116 would be:

    20% shield penetration normally

    5% chance 100% shield penetration.

    Still get a nice bang shot once in awhile but it wouldn't feel so over the top like it does now. I would suggest a 30sec lockout on the proc but elachi junk would need it reinstated. That's another bone to pick I have with the devs though. :D

    Maybe that word is a little harsh. Maybe the player but the act of using it is despicable. Most people that use it are good enough not to have to. But I have three toons that have it and is ready if used against me.

    I would have to agree with the proposed reduction to shield pen against players. I think maybe at 25% might be good. I still believe tacs should have a chance to one shot players. They are the DPS class, but it has to be under the right circumstances. A fully buffed tac with a tric scan and nanite infestation and fire on my mark should be able to do the job.

    As far as the auto adrenal hypo it should count as a death. If. It maybe we should take the run buff off. But I have a quick solution to take it out of the game. It is called a stasis pistol. Let them use it them stasis them. Then concentrate on the rest of the team. Yes it is cheese but I am fighting cheese with cheese.
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    falklander1989falklander1989 Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I seriously doubt they gonna nerf TR gun anytime soon.As someone already mentioned they probably gonna add some craftable shield or something as counter.Just been in match where 2 guys,not even that good players spam that TRIBBLE.You dont even see what is coming,you just end up dead.Anyway i hope im wrong and they nerf it soon but i doubt they gonna nerf such a shiny bait so soon,atlest not before enough ppl spend their money by trying to get to level 15 faster.:(
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited August 2014

    disclaimer: i am not going to be held responsible for any future nerf to your tr-116b, even if i use it constantly to 100% shield bypass no laser sight warning one shot anything in my path :P

    Well, while I don't support the use of the TR-116B in PvP I like your offer to other players. I also think that all sniper shots should loose their laser sight targeting. It is a sniper shot. Other games don't give this warning. I would support losing it on all sniper rifles. It is just like the orbital and grenade warning. The animation is the only warning you should have. People being able to dodge orbitals, sniper shots, and grenades are insane. It we got rid or reduce the warning stuff like Anistisia Gas becomes more useful.
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I seriously doubt they gonna nerf TR gun anytime soon.As someone already mentioned they probably gonna add some craftable shield or something as counter.Just been in match where 2 guys,not even that good players spam that TRIBBLE.You dont even see what is coming,you just end up dead.Anyway i hope im wrong and they nerf it soon but i doubt they gonna nerf such a shiny bait so soon,atlest not before enough ppl spend their money by trying to get to level 15 faster.:(

    If you are logged in for numerous hours a day, make sure you are running crafting mission that make MK IV and VI gear. They give the most bang for the buck. I double or triple my daily crafting xp. I craft nearly 30 cannons a day, plus the components to make them.
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I also think that all sniper shots should loose their laser sight targeting. It is a sniper shot. Other games don't give this warning. I would support losing it on all sniper rifles. It is just like the orbital and grenade warning. The animation is the only warning you should have. People being able to dodge orbitals, sniper shots, and grenades are insane. It we got rid or reduce the warning stuff like Anistisia Gas becomes more useful.

    i would like this ALOT grenades are powerful and useful but have no use in pvp most the time players can simply avoid the attack, snipers unless your on low settings and cant see the aim sight, you can easily dodge them go behind cover and wait till there buff on rifle expires, it would be nice to be able to use sniper rifles without the warning line currently you can try to aim but alot will take cover, orbital i dont know on that, it kinda makes sense to have maybe a dark shaded area under where it drops just before it does like its being fired down from your ship but only for 1 or 1.5 sec at most right before impact.

    anesthizine gas especially it is not exactly a damage weapon it is a debuff yet has one of the biggest warning areas in sto it makes almost no sense at all you can counter it with a voth doff so it sticks to a target then explodes on them 3 seconds later(or hirogen doff?)but that isnt really needed the warning should be removed completely for that item
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Well, while I don't support the use of the TR-116B in PvP I like your offer to other players. I also think that all sniper shots should loose their laser sight targeting. It is a sniper shot. Other games don't give this warning. I would support losing it on all sniper rifles. It is just like the orbital and grenade warning. The animation is the only warning you should have. People being able to dodge orbitals, sniper shots, and grenades are insane. It we got rid or reduce the warning stuff like Anistisia Gas becomes more useful.

    Hmm don't really agree with that. We've already seen what not being able to see warning animations made pvp like when omega distortion field was hiding warning animations from snipers, grenades, orbital strikes etc. It was even more tacs online then it is now and frankly, given the fact that there ARE warning animations, it takes a combination of timing and good use of abilities to land some of those things (though some just sit and wait and wait and wait cloaked till they can pick off a half dead/ distracted target)vs. what we're seeing now with the tr-116 which gives no such warning. I could foresee even more boring long range, across the bridge snipe trading if warning animations were removed.
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    (though some just sit and wait and wait and wait cloaked till they can pick off a half dead/ distracted target)

    tbh this is kinda like a sniper you'd see in hm movies games tv shows, sniper carefully hidden up high waiting for a distraction, loud bang or so then shoots silently noise hidden main target killed, i dont mind this they are having fun, i my self used to do this alot, changed to more pulsewave after a certain player kept trying to pulsewave me over and over and over for months (lol) waiting right at my sniper spots
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    Hmm don't really agree with that. We've already seen what not being able to see warning animations made pvp like when omega distortion field was hiding warning animations from snipers, grenades, orbital strikes etc. It was even more tacs online then it is now and frankly, given the fact that there ARE warning animations, it takes a combination of timing and good use of abilities to land some of those things (though some just sit and wait and wait and wait cloaked till they can pick off a half dead/ distracted target)vs. what we're seeing now with the tr-116 which gives no such warning. I could foresee even more boring long range, across the bridge snipe trading if warning animations were removed.

    I understand. I am not for removing the warning at all. The warning needs to be shortened to the point if you are not double rolling fast enough you are going to be hit. The way it works now is a sniper shot lines up and a person walks around a corner, sometimes with a movement debuff and interrupts the shot. This is a bad game mechanic.
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    janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    10. Duty officer: Security Officer, +100% damage with Ambush, dealt as a DoT version
    Issue:The duty officer interacts incorrectly with plasma grenade fire patches. When a plasma grenade is thrown while using this duty officer, the plasma grenade fire retains the ambush buff. This results in the plasma fire patch continuously applying DoT on ambush stacks to anything affected by the plasma fire.
    Status: To be advised by Cryptic

    I must say this does not need any fix at all. This effect simply works better than intended, making Plasma Granade more valuable. This effect is not game breaking in any way. It is easy to avoid granades. Also, dot effect is easy to clean. It also bound to Ambush which has pretty long cd.

    Without it you can simply discard this kit module because it is useless otherwise.

    TR-116 and Adrenal Hypo Kit Module are game breaking and need fixes.
    __________________
    [Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.

    In-game handle @Janetza
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    janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    10. Duty officer: Security Officer, +100% damage with Ambush, dealt as a DoT version
    Issue:The duty officer interacts incorrectly with plasma grenade fire patches. When a plasma grenade is thrown while using this duty officer, the plasma grenade fire retains the ambush buff. This results in the plasma fire patch continuously applying DoT on ambush stacks to anything affected by the plasma fire.
    Status: To be advised by Cryptic

    I must say this does not need any fix at all. This effect simply works better than intended, making Plasma Granade more valuable. This effect is not game breaking in any way. It is easy to avoid granades. Also, dot effect is easy to clean. It also bound to Ambush which has pretty long cd.

    Without it you can simply discard this kit module because it is useless otherwise.

    TR-116, Adrenal Hypo Kit Module, Undine Rep and Xindi Weapons are game breaking and need fixes.
    __________________
    [Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.

    In-game handle @Janetza
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