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Personal Shields and Kinetic Damage Bugged?

dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
Are personal shields supposed to have higher unlisted resists to kinetic damage? Myself and a friend have been comparing various sniper rifles with the TR-116B. An energy weapon does a large amount of damage to the shield, and a very small amount to the health. The TR-116B does very little to the shield, and only a small amount more to the health. This suggests the personal shield is resisting kinetic damage much more than it resists energy damage. Are they supposed to do that?
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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    Are personal shields supposed to have higher unlisted resists to kinetic damage? Myself and a friend have been comparing various sniper rifles with the TR-116B. An energy weapon does a large amount of damage to the shield, and a very small amount to the health. The TR-116B does very little to the shield, and only a small amount more to the health. This suggests the personal shield is resisting kinetic damage much more than it resists energy damage. Are they supposed to do that?

    Well it would require some good testing, but from my understanding, the rifle only has a 20% shield bypass, so that means the other 80% is roughly absorbed by the PSG for damage.

    Where as the standard energy weapon, has little to no innate shield penetration, and thus why the PSG suffers so much damage.

    Remember even melee weapons can cause shield damage, as even they only have a 80% shield bypass.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Way to take an idea and totally kill it.

    Shields only stop energy. They shouldn't stop kinetic nearly as well. Why else do melee weapons do so much damage?

    This is just a long-range melee weapon. It shouldn't have a piddly 20% penetration value. It also shouldn't ever need remodulation.

    I had high hopes for it. Now I'll skip it entirely.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Way to take an idea and totally kill it.

    Shields only stop energy. They shouldn't stop kinetic nearly as well. Why else do melee weapons do so much damage?

    This is just a long-range melee weapon. It shouldn't have a piddly 20% penetration value. It also shouldn't ever need remodulation.

    I had high hopes for it. Now I'll skip it entirely.

    Well, it makes about as much sense, as the change they did to the nano-pulse weapons, by turning them into straight energy melee weapon, hence why the borg can adapt to them. :rolleyes:
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    Are personal shields supposed to have higher unlisted resists to kinetic damage? Myself and a friend have been comparing various sniper rifles with the TR-116B. An energy weapon does a large amount of damage to the shield, and a very small amount to the health. The TR-116B does very little to the shield, and only a small amount more to the health. This suggests the personal shield is resisting kinetic damage much more than it resists energy damage. Are they supposed to do that?

    It's not the shield resisting damage. It's just that the new rifle base damage is lower compared to other guns, because of its kinetic type. This seems to be by design.

    Normal energy weapons, without any shield penetration traits or mods, have to completely deplete enemy shields before doing armor damage. The new gun allows 20% of the final damage to bypass shields and apply directly to armor first, the rest (80%) being countered by shields, and then any remaining damage to depleted shields applied to armor. I suppose that if you get enough damage buffs, it can become strong enough to deal decent damage to armor before shields.

    The real advantage of the new gun seems to be that Borg won't adapt to it rather than its shield penetration mod. I have yet to see how good it is against players, but looking at the numbers, unless you get some insane damage buffs, it won't do much better, if any better at all, than the other good guns out there.
  • dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Overall, I would expect the damage numbers to be comparable to those from an energy type sniper rifle, regardless of the split between shield and health. This, however, is not happening. My TR-116B is lucky if it even does half of what an energy damage type does while shields are up. I am wondering if the shields might be blocking kinetic damage similar to how ship shields block most torpedo damage.

    Stats comparison with fleet and MACO sniper rifles: http://thephoenixdivision.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1220&mode=view
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    I am wondering if the shields might be blocking kinetic damage similar to how ship shields block most torpedo damage.


    Knowing cryptics/PWEs copy&paste-programming, thats most likely the case.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Although I can't answer the OP directly, THIS POST shows a YouTube video of the TR-116B compared to the MACO BR in action.

    Quite enlightening ...
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Wow... That's just horrifically pathetic.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ... which is what prompted me to commit to getting the MACO rifle :)

    But I digress.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Improvement coming soon. :)
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ... which is what prompted me to commit to getting the MACO rifle :)

    But I digress.

    The MACO battle rifle's only drawback is that you can't have it, the anti-Undine 2-piece bonus to Phaser damage, and Adapted MACO's Blood of the Warrior bonus to all damage running all at the same time.

    ...Well, that and it's the same damage type as the Adapted MACO pulsewave and Elite phasers, so you need to remodulate a little more frequently when fighting Borg...
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i knew it, i knew this would disappoint. space shields have a built in kinetic resistance base of 75%, thats why torpedoes suck so terribly in this game. im so not surprised that grounds shields share this same resistance. i asked about a dozen times if any ground pro's knew anything about ground shields and a possible built in kinetic res, but never got an answer. just been waiting around for this exact thread to show up.

    don't confuse melee damage and kinetic damage, melee is physical, which is basically kinetic without the built in shield resistance. grenades and this rifle are what deal kinetic damage.
    Improvement coming soon. :)

    please tell me its to the innate kinetic resistance to shields. ALL shields. space shields mostly, don't care much for this toy gun.

    torpedoes and their damage scaling will need to be overhauled as well, but a game were every build is best when it combines energy and kinetic damage, is a star trek game thats being done correctly. i just hope there's not already to many + to torp penetration things built in to make a rebalance like this impossible.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 27,476 New User
    edited July 2014
    The MACO battle rifle's only drawback is that you can't have it, the anti-Undine 2-piece bonus to Phaser damage, and Adapted MACO's Blood of the Warrior bonus to all damage running all at the same time.
    unless blood of the warrior is part of the 3 piece...CC kit + rifle, AMACO shield + armor and MACO rifle
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  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Improvement coming soon. :)

    I have a bad feeling about this becoming the next broken thing in GPvP.
    i asked about a dozen times if any ground pro's knew anything about ground shields and a possible built in kinetic res

    EDIT: it was mentioned somewhere that ground shields also have the same default kinetic resistances (75%) that space shields have. I didn't notice it in my experience, but I haven't directly tested things either. I edited my previous response since now I'm not sure of it and it might be wrong info.
  • emperordeslokemperordeslok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'd love to see both the maco and this compared to an elite fleet phaser rifle
    (perhaps after the "improvement")
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,129 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I have a bad feeling about this becoming the next broken thing in GPvP.

    You know though, as much effort is needed to craft the TR-116B, it *should* be a reasonable option to Rep rifles. It doesn't have to be superior, nor a copy of one with a different skin. But currently, the difference between the two is literally night and day ... and it's laughably obvious.
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    I have a bad feeling about this becoming the next broken thing in GPvP.



    Ground shields don't have any built-in kinetic resistance. Most kinetic based powers (mortars, mines, etc) have a 50% shield penetration that's tied to the power and is not a default behavior of kinetic damage.

    Lol.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WPwxgml0Q3A

    Data wants broken OP motivation plus an improved tr-116. Just let it shoot through walls even. Gpvp is a complete joke already.

  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i knew it, i knew this would disappoint. space shields have a built in kinetic resistance base of 75%, thats why torpedoes suck so terribly in this game. im so not surprised that grounds shields share this same resistance. i asked about a dozen times if any ground pro's knew anything about ground shields and a possible built in kinetic res, but never got an answer. just been waiting around for this exact thread to show up.

    don't confuse melee damage and kinetic damage, melee is physical, which is basically kinetic without the built in shield resistance. grenades and this rifle are what deal kinetic damage.



    please tell me its to the innate kinetic resistance to shields. ALL shields. space shields mostly, don't care much for this toy gun.

    torpedoes and their damage scaling will need to be overhauled as well, but a game were every build is best when it combines energy and kinetic damage, is a star trek game thats being done correctly. i just hope there's not already to many + to torp penetration things built in to make a rebalance like this impossible.

    This.

    The TR-116 should just have 80% pen like melee weapons, as currently its very, very underpowered.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited July 2014
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 27,476 New User
    edited July 2014
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    I just loaded up Tribble to see the changes to the rifle... 100% shield penetration.
    seriously? the notes said they improved it, but not what they did...that seems a little TOO much of an improvement - 80% would've been plenty

    i mean, the sniper shot does what - 260 some damage at base? something like that going completely through shields seems a teeny bit overboard
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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    dabelgrave wrote: »

    Definite borg killer now, with a 100% shield bypass.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


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  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Definite player killer now, with a 100% shield bypass.

    Fixed it for you.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    still seems bugged/buggy. 100% shield penetration, but ignores 7.5% of enemy shields?

    I don't care about PvP. It's so badly implemented in this game. This is a weapon entirely implemented for PvE. If they up the penetration from the lame-duck 20% it was then it becomes a weapon worth using against the borg (who can have thousands of hitpoints, and over 4000 for an elite tac drone).
  • captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,270 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    still seems bugged/buggy. 100% shield penetration, but ignores 7.5% of enemy shields?

    I don't care about PvP. It's so badly implemented in this game. This is a weapon entirely implemented for PvE. If they up the penetration from the lame-duck 20% it was then it becomes a weapon worth using against the borg (who can have thousands of hitpoints, and over 4000 for an elite tac drone).

    I was thinking the same, but from looking at that shot, I think they have the nukara shield bypass ground trait slotted.
    I need a beer.

  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,724 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    In the true spirit for Cryptic, it seems on the surface they did a copypasta of the old transphasic torp and applied it to the 116b.

    Because 20% Pen is ****e. And useless.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    Fixed it for you.
    I tried it in a 1v1 test last night. Just standing around letting it autofire took about as long as any other rifle. Actually running around using other abilities too, and you hope you don't get hit with a lucky shot.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    A fleetmate of mine tested it a bit on tribble, well, non-crits went on tactical drones without buffs/debuffs for 500-600 without flanking. Seems like it might get a second "patch".
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    woodwhity wrote: »
    A fleetmate of mine tested it a bit on tribble, well, non-crits went on tactical drones without buffs/debuffs for 500-600 without flanking. Seems like it might get a second "patch".

    Knowing Cryptic? No.

    I'd like to be proven wrong though.
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    I tried it in a 1v1 test last night. Just standing around letting it autofire took about as long as any other rifle. Actually running around using other abilities too, and you hope you don't get hit with a lucky shot.

    The offender here is the secondary shot, where autofire doesn't apply. (Autofire generally doesn't apply well to PvP in general.)

    Tacs can gather a large amount of damage buffs and they can also debuff enemy resistance. This is just theorycrafting but I'm quite positive they can stack enough damage buffs and debuffs to one-shot *most players through full shields, with 50% kinetic res from armor and 100% dodge (50% avoidance).

    Roughly, a 200 base damage would need to be enhanced by 1100% to reach 2200 final damage, which would translate to 600 after dodge and resists.

    (* Edited)
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