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A positive nod for the new Crafting rep

gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
Y'know, there's a lot of people screaming at the top of their lungs at how the crafting system is evil and a dil sink and that it's dead on arrival and they're gonna close their wallets because of this is obviously missing out on a LOT of the good things:

1) Cheap, easy AP weaponry: everyone wants AP weaponry, but AP weaponry is crazy expensive. Yes, common is vendor trash, but there's gonna be a boon of people who want cheap easy AP weaponry without tons of dil and fleet credits.

2) Easy lower ranked weaponry and gear. Again, people see this as vendor trash. Others will see this as a boon. Don't tell me you'd like your Connie with non-phaser weaponry!

3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

Yes, the Crafting is a gamble and you won't get the VR weapon on the first try, but instead of being penny pinchers who want the best for little work as possible, go with the adage "one man's trash is another man's treasure."
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  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,604 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    1) Cheap, easy AP weaponry: everyone wants AP weaponry, but AP weaponry is crazy expensive. Yes, common is vendor trash, but there's gonna be a boon of people who want cheap easy AP weaponry without tons of dil and fleet credits.

    Fluid Dynamics actually offers AP weapons as a reward now.
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  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    voporak wrote: »
    Fluid Dynamics actually offers AP weapons as a reward now.

    Yes, but it's easier to gather simple common weaponry until then. Common items tend to be easy and cheap build testers.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

    Yes, the Crafting is a gamble and you won't get the VR weapon on the first try, but instead of being penny pinchers who want the best for little work as possible, go with the adage "one man's trash is another man's treasure."

    Cute thinking 9.5 is going to be profitable. Especially when the exchange is oversaturated with crafted goods. :P
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  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Cute thinking 9.5 is going to be profitable. :P

    Cute thinking that 9.5 is going to be the death of STO. Maybe it will be over saturated or maybe it won't. We just won't know until July.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,077 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Yes, but it's easier to gather simple common weaponry until then. Common items tend to be easy and cheap build testers.

    It's far easier to just do the mission 6 or 7 times and be done. And if all you want are beam arrays ...
    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

    They're nerfing the return on selling junk loot to vendors. The only people who will be swimming in EC are the ones already swimming in EC.

    This change is mostly lateral. It's not going to ruin the game. But it's not really going to help improve gameplay much at all and crafting can and will still be largely ignored by a lot of players.

    Oh and the really annoying thing that comes from all this? Changes to DOFFing and the removal of exploration clusters.

    Lame.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Y'know, there's a lot of people screaming at the top of their lungs at how the crafting system is evil and a dil sink and that it's dead on arrival and they're gonna close their wallets because of this is obviously missing out on a LOT of the good things:

    1) Cheap, easy AP weaponry: everyone wants AP weaponry, but AP weaponry is crazy expensive. Yes, common is vendor trash, but there's gonna be a boon of people who want cheap easy AP weaponry without tons of dil and fleet credits.

    2) Easy lower ranked weaponry and gear. Again, people see this as vendor trash. Others will see this as a boon. Don't tell me you'd like your Connie with non-phaser weaponry!

    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

    Yes, the Crafting is a gamble and you won't get the VR weapon on the first try, but instead of being penny pinchers who want the best for little work as possible, go with the adage "one man's trash is another man's treasure."

    You do realize it's still Cryptic making this, right? - aloishammer
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  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,489 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I think it's only a good thing for new players. That's (supposedly) who it was made for. Okay, new guys aren't rolling in EC or DIL and it's likely they have alts in the same boat. So, yeah. This particular revamp makes no sense. I'm not sure if they added anything new in there, either. But given Rep and Fleet gear, this whole revamp seems superfluous at best. What they should do is merge crafting (the old gear) into the various rep and/or fleet systems and not add to the grind. It wouldn't change their DIL tax or the amount of EC needed. That or just remove crafting entirely.
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • illisstr8illisstr8 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    daqhegh wrote: »
    I think it's only a good thing for new players. That's (supposedly) who it was made for. Okay, new guys aren't rolling in EC or DIL and it's likely they have alts in the same boat. So, yeah. This particular revamp makes no sense. I'm not sure if they added anything new in there, either. But given Rep and Fleet gear, this whole revamp seems superfluous at best. What they should do is merge crafting (the old gear) into the various rep and/or fleet systems and not add to the grind. It wouldn't change their DIL tax or the amount of EC needed. That or just remove crafting entirely.

    Technically, crafting simply does not work in STO, especially since it is using a free to play model. I hate to sound negative but crafting should be completely removed from the game. It seems the company is forced to tie it into a gameplay system that is concentrated in the dilithium system. I guess the true question is, "Is it worth the time, money, and resources to craft a single random item?"
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  • cynder2012cynder2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    it was only a matter of time before cryptic copied the crafting system over from NW...and I rarely do that one unless im on the gateway lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,105 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    1) Cheap, easy AP weaponry: everyone wants AP weaponry, but AP weaponry is crazy expensive. Yes, common is vendor trash, but there's gonna be a boon of people who want cheap easy AP weaponry without tons of dil and fleet credits.

    2) Easy lower ranked weaponry and gear. Again, people see this as vendor trash. Others will see this as a boon. Don't tell me you'd like your Connie with non-phaser weaponry!

    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

    1.) Has potential, but you can craft AP and Phaser weapons with even the current system. You have a chance to get some higher grade stuff, but you also have a chance of getting worse.. for the exact same cost and investment.

    2.) Again, this isn't really an improvement over the old system unless you're after purple quality lower leveled gear - which isn't going to last long anyway. By the time you've found enough resources and/or actually crafted the item(MKVI gear currently takes an hour to craft per item), you'll probably be halfway through the level bracket.

    3.) Clarify. At current costs, I don't see this creating a massive market outside of Field Generators, RCS, and Damage consoles. This will probably replace the current alien artifact->console market. Given the random nature, it's questionable whether an Anti-Proton market for DHCs and Turrets would be able to afford itself(compared to people just getting them from fleet stores or lockboxes).
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    cynder2012 wrote: »
    it was only a matter of time before cryptic copied the crafting system over from NW...and I rarely do that one unless im on the gateway lol

    Well, I HAVE done a fair bit of Crafting in Neverwinter, and IMHO, that system is pretty good! ...
    Yes it can lead to 'farmers' who then spend all their time Crafting and selling, but many of the items they craft are actually worth while, particularity lower level gear and consumables.

    The exchange is sometimes the best "store" to get gear from, as the Vendor's in NW are perhaps the most ridiculous and downright "borked" stores I've ever seen.

    I'm not sure how the player base in STO would handle this, but the Exchange in NW is an actual "Auction" house, so even if you set a price of 1000000, it may still only sell for 100 (just an example) And then too, all sales in NW incur an Auction House "Tax".

    I think many STO players are so self entitled that they would scream in rage if that was implemented, but in NW, it's accepted, and most importantly ... IT WORKS!
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    bendalek wrote: »
    Well, I HAVE done a fair bit of Crafting in Neverwinter, and IMHO, that system is pretty good! ...
    Yes it can lead to 'farmers' who then spend all their time Crafting and selling, but many of the items they craft are actually worth while, particularity lower level gear and consumables.

    The exchange is sometimes the best "store" to get gear from, as the Vendor's in NW are perhaps the most ridiculous and downright "borked" stores I've ever seen.

    I'm not sure how the player base in STO would handle this, but the Exchange in NW is an actual "Auction" house, so even if you set a price of 1000000, it may still only sell for 100 (just an example) And then too, all sales in NW incur an Auction House "Tax".

    I think many STO players are so self entitled that they would scream in rage if that was implemented, but in NW, it's accepted, and most importantly ... IT WORKS!

    Two important notes, though:

    1) Lower level gear really isn't that valuable or even necessary in STO; you level quickly and can do just fine with found gear. Plus, if you have bothered to get a "leveling set" of gear, it's all Bound to Account so you just level a character to 50 and pass the low level stuff to the next alt. There are no class specific items, unlike D&D based Neverwinter, which means the same gear can be used for leveling.

    2) The Auction House for Neverwinter was in Astral Diamonds last time I looked... I suppose they could do that here, but having absolutely everything traded via dilithium with a tacked on tax really would make folks scream rage. Not from self-entitlement, but simply because the EC resources they currently have would be completely negated... well, that and the ability to "pay to win" since you can just buy some Zen, grab some dilithium, then gear up if they converted over to a dilithium-based Exchange in that manner.

    Two very different games, unless they added a Spelljammer cross-over that I don't know about. It's been awhile since I bothered with Neverwinter, though, so I wouldn't know of its current state.
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  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!
    For the same amount of dil than the regular MK XII craft gamble, I can buy a key on the C store (by trading dil for zen), and sell it. No gamble, I'm sure my key will sell, and for the amount I want to. I can also sell the unused craft component you'll use on the same craft.

    Can you say the same with your crafted item ? I don't think so.


    But hey, I'm glad you will be enjoying your crappy MK XII green AP weapon, after spending an unholy amount of dil for it (and lots of time/resources to grind the craft lvl). Just FYI, you can already craft AP using the current craft. And you are guaranteed to have a purple MK XI. You'll just miss the new bonus (which is crappy half the time anyway).
    Meanwhile, I'll use my dil to buy keys, make money, and use it to buy what I need from you. If I really need to, but honestly, fleet store/rep already have it covered IMO. While selling my unwanted components, and making money.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,241 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Only characters that will benefit from this are lower level players trying to get decent gear since from what I have heard it's easy to craft lower level gear and you do not need dil to create it.

    So good on cryptic for that. HOWEVER, the higher tier lottery, not so good.

    I mean to make an Ageis set already is a dil sink, now everything is going to be like that and to top it off, cryptic made it like a box of chocolates. Even with dil, you never know what you are going to get.

    To me that is silly.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Y'know, there's a lot of people screaming at the top of their lungs at how the crafting system is evil and a dil sink and that it's dead on arrival and they're gonna close their wallets because of this is obviously missing out on a LOT of the good things:

    1) Cheap, easy AP weaponry: everyone wants AP weaponry, but AP weaponry is crazy expensive. Yes, common is vendor trash, but there's gonna be a boon of people who want cheap easy AP weaponry without tons of dil and fleet credits.

    2) Easy lower ranked weaponry and gear. Again, people see this as vendor trash. Others will see this as a boon. Don't tell me you'd like your Connie with non-phaser weaponry!

    3) EC up the wazoo. You play this right, you'll be rolling in the dough!

    Yes, the Crafting is a gamble and you won't get the VR weapon on the first try, but instead of being penny pinchers who want the best for little work as possible, go with the adage "one man's trash is another man's treasure."

    1. people dont need ap weapons to be powerful, whats you point?

    2. you can get trash anywhere, but trash is still trash. whats that got to do with crafting?

    3. nope, when i do play its almost exclusive finding something from nothing. and assuming thats not your answer then you can try explain to me how that has any effect on crafting?

    one mans trash is another mans treasure, but to push it further: is one mans blocked overflowing toilet full of brown smelly stuff another mans joy? :P

    crafting requires time and patience and a guarantee you get something you want out of it. otherwise it would be like getting all excited a top car maker took your car designs and are known for superior quality only to get disappointed when the custom car you ordered from from them is not what you like with next to no quality about the car and drives worse then a double decker bus on rims. now why would you want to enjoy something like that?
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  • solidneutroniumsolidneutronium Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Player:You walk into a Mercedes dealership
    Dealer:"Your car is ready, we just need a few things"
    Player:"Excellent, I can't wait"
    Dealer:"I need you to sign here, initial here"
    Player:Cuts the check
    Dealer:Hands over a pair of dice
    Player:"What's this?"
    Dealer:"A new feature, just roll the dice"
    Player:Rolls a 2 and a 3
    Dealer:"Ooooooh, bad luck you didn't win"
    Player:"Say what?"
    Dealer:"You didn't win, but as a consolation price you get this Kia instead"
    Player:"What?"
    Dealer:"Good news, you can sell your Kia and start rolling in dough"

    :D
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  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Player:You walk into a Mercedes dealership
    Dealer:"Your car is ready, we just need a few things"
    Player:"Excellent, I can't wait"
    Dealer:"I need you to sign here, initial here"
    Player:Cuts the check
    Dealer:Hands over a pair of dice
    Player:"What's this?"
    Dealer:"A new feature, just roll the dice"
    Player:Rolls a 2 and a 3
    Dealer:"Ooooooh, bad luck you didn't win"
    Player:"Say what?"
    Dealer:"You didn't win, but as a consolation price you get this Kia instead"
    Player:"What?"
    Dealer:"Good news, you can sell your Kia and start rolling in dough"

    :D

    That's how Cryptic rolls.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I have to see the potential for crafting before I start making time for it. And my playing time is already limited. I will wait until I see the full list of stuff to be made, and go from there. To make sure the items are worth my time to craft and level up again.

    What I hate of it is the cost of Dil added to it. I don't make that much Dil to spread around all these projects. This is why I don't use Dil on the Fleet projects. I don't make enough even to get my own projects going well.

    It needs to be really good before I invest my time and resources into the new crafting.
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  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    farmallm wrote: »
    I have to see the potential for crafting before I start making time for it. And my playing time is already limited. I will wait until I see the full list of stuff to be made, and go from there. To make sure the items are worth my time to craft and level up again.

    What I hate of it is the cost of Dil added to it. I don't make that much Dil to spread around all these projects. This is why I don't use Dil on the Fleet projects. I don't make enough even to get my own projects going well.

    It needs to be really good before I invest my time and resources into the new crafting.

    Its not the dil cost that's the problem. Its that the dil cost goes to a random quality item.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    ive maxed crafting on 1 fed 1 kdf so i could make stuff for new alts but ive not made any alts since legacy n dont plan to unless its for a new faction. for me using a daily limited resource for a small chance of very rare with mods i wont is waste of my time n grinded dilith so i wont be crafting in its form that is on tribble.
    i was looking forward to the crafting changes but its not for me i dont gamble in real life so why should i in a game.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Player:You walk into a Mercedes dealership
    Dealer:"Your car is ready, we just need a few things"
    Player:"Excellent, I can't wait"
    Dealer:"I need you to sign here, initial here"
    Player:Cuts the check
    Dealer:Hands over a pair of dice
    Player:"What's this?"
    Dealer:"A new feature, just roll the dice"
    Player:Rolls a 2 and a 3
    Dealer:"Ooooooh, bad luck you didn't win"
    Player:"Say what?"
    Dealer:"You didn't win, but as a consolation price you get this Kia instead"
    Player:"What?"
    Dealer:"Good news, you can sell your Kia and start rolling in dough"

    :D

    lol :D Talk about hitting the nail on the head.
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    Its not the dil cost that's the problem. Its that the dil cost goes to a random quality item.

    To me its both. I rarely hit the Dil cap on one character. So it takes me time to get enough Dil for my projects. And the other part you mention. That isn't good as well. Why would I spend my resources and time on a gamble like this? Where I can't choose what gear I want. That is one thing I liked about WoW crafting. You got what you wanted. Unless it had "Random Stats" on the item your making. Then it could anything.

    As I'm seeing more and more on this. Looks like I won't bother with the crafting. But I'm still waiting to see the final results when it goes live.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Player:You walk into a Mercedes dealership
    Dealer:"Your car is ready, we just need a few things"
    Player:"Excellent, I can't wait"
    Dealer:"I need you to sign here, initial here"
    Player:Cuts the check
    Dealer:Hands over a pair of dice
    Player:"What's this?"
    Dealer:"A new feature, just roll the dice"
    Player:Rolls a 2 and a 3
    Dealer:"Ooooooh, bad luck you didn't win"
    Player:"Say what?"
    Dealer:"You didn't win, but as a consolation price you get this Kia instead"
    Player:"What?"
    Dealer:"Good news, you can sell your Kia and start rolling in dough"

    :D

    It's not quite that bad. Would be more like going in for a SLS Roadster and walking out with a CLA Coupe.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It's not quite that bad. Would be more like going in for a SLS Roadster and walking out with a CLA Coupe.

    Irrelevant. Still not what I asked and payed for.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Irrelevant. Still not what I asked and payed for.

    so true if i paying for something i wont to know wot im paying for 1st or u wont get my money
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    Say No to ARK
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    farmallm wrote: »
    To me its both. I rarely hit the Dil cap on one character. So it takes me time to get enough Dil for my projects. And the other part you mention. That isn't good as well. Why would I spend my resources and time on a gamble like this? Where I can't choose what gear I want. That is one thing I liked about WoW crafting. You got what you wanted. Unless it had "Random Stats" on the item your making. Then it could anything.

    As I'm seeing more and more on this. Looks like I won't bother with the crafting. But I'm still waiting to see the final results when it goes live.

    why are u not hitting ur dill cap its easy with doff mission 3-4k dill 3-4 elite stf n turn marks in to dill boom job done
    Welcome to bugs online were we only fix the bugs you like, and will ignore the ones you hate.
    These are the voyages of the USS Farmville. Her 5 year mission is to boldly farm where no one has farmed before.
    Say No to ARK
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited June 2014
    Player:You walk into a Mercedes dealership
    Dealer:"Your car is ready, we just need a few things"
    Player:"Excellent, I can't wait"
    Dealer:"I need you to sign here, initial here"
    Player:Cuts the check
    Dealer:Hands over a pair of dice
    Player:"What's this?"
    Dealer:"A new feature, just roll the dice"
    Player:Rolls a 2 and a 3
    Dealer:"Ooooooh, bad luck you didn't win"
    Player:"Say what?"
    Dealer:"You didn't win, but as a consolation price you get this Kia instead"
    Player:"What?"
    Dealer:"Good news, you can sell your Kia and start rolling in dough"

    :D

    ROFL. This post wins the forum folks!
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    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • cletusdeadmancletusdeadman Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    We will have see how supportive the OP is when he is starting his 3rd run for weapon.
    I imagine this forum is going to be replete with those stories.
    And they are not going to be happy.
  • carcharodon1975carcharodon1975 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    For the players there is no positive side to the crafting system.I know exactly what is going to happen if this goes live....they will introduce a few 'must have' items that you can only get through crafting.The chances of actually getting the items will be TRIBBLE poor,but they will have something in the C-store that will increase the odds....the most expensive version will guarantee you get the item.

    It's the Lock Box all over again with a twist....just another way of trying to extort money from people.
    The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!

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  • ralphgraphiteralphgraphite Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    OK, I'm fairly new, only been playing for 10 months. I'm hoping someone who's been playing forever here can correct me/point out differences.

    The new crafting system had me somewhat excited, and to be honest, I don't MIND the wait for the project to complete - whatever, instant gratification is not realistic anyway.

    BUT - the availability of the new VR crafting materials in the elite queued missions bothers me a great deal. This sounds just like what I hear building the old Borg rep sets was like in the old STFs - the system I keep hearing everyone hated - grind the same mission over and over again HOPING that you get the drop you need to complete your set. HOW is this any different?

    Also, I already need to complete ESTFs to get BNPs, Voth cybernetic thingies, Undine whatevers, to get my rep gear. Why would crafting be tied up in that system as well?

    If they really want the rare and very rare crafting materials to be hidden behind some "harder" content - why the heck not actually put it behind the NEVER used mission difficulty, and bump the quality of the drops in "Hard" mode missions while they are at it. That way you don't need to run the same ESTF over and over again to get your crafting materials.

    Or better yet, make all materials available everywhere, like before. Drop tables could be setup so that VR particle traces drop less often, just like the rare ones vs. other ones before.

    Also - random gamble with a dilithium input? Dilithium was the reason that the only items I ever crafted were kits (no dilithium, and a major loss that they were pulled), Aegis sets for new alts, and Mk XI Blue Field Gens. Make it an EC sink and I'll bite - if it's dilithium I may as well go with Fleet or rep gear - at least I KNOW what I'll get.
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