On my b'rel, I have:
3 mk12 stealth modules
Rom subterfuge boff
+26 stealth deflector
9 points in stealth
i am being detected at greater than 11KM. Not asking for perfect stealth, but just what do you propose I do when he can't be vaped and always has a group of tacs with him?
Always running is not the answer.
Why would I even invest in stealth when it is worthless with that console?
Hrmm...
3x Mk XII Stealth consoles = +90 Starship Stealth
Rom Sub BOFF = +150 Starship Stealth
Deflector = +26 Starship Stealth
9 Points Stealth = +99 Starship Stealth
365 Starship Stealth = 182.5 Stealth Value = 3.65 km of Stealth Range.
Would it pain you to know that EPtA1 gives 3km of Perception Range, meaning that all you did there was add 0.65km of Stealth Range?
Overall though, can say that with you sporting 125 Aux - you're running...
For somebody to see you at 11km, they'd need X - 5233 = (11 * 50); X - 5233 = 550; X = 5783 Perception...although how they get there can include things like various levels of EPtA.
Base Perception is 5000, so they'd need 783 additional Perception. EPtA1 would give them 150, EPtA2 200, EPtA3 250 (I think - haven't really looked at EPtA3 lately - think it's still 3-4-5, might be different).
Say we knock off 200 for EPtA2 (common enough out there) - they'd need 583 Perception.
Well, beyond that - would need to know the modifier that it provides beyond the 2.5% - same with the likely deflector they're running outside of the 2% they're probably getting...but 1166's not hard to get at all. Throw in a Sensor Scan and - yeah - they're going to see you out well beyond 20km...
our premade in fed side can hunt premade with vaper, we tryed the same thing without the TDF and without the TDF u cant HUNT the vaper, so KDF definitivly need TDF
I saw the thread went quiet after I asked my question..
I'll go ahead and answer my own question as to why my total and complete investment in stealth doesn't matter...
BECAUSE IT IS OP!
Your investment was basically worthless because Starship Stealth Skill is the worst skill...so a heavy investment in it is going to provide a crappy return.
edit: The harsh in this post wasn't directed at you - rather directed at Cryptic. It's just annoying how many things are broken with Stealth (EPtA doesn't boost, Rem/Rom Deflectors don't boost, etc) - the value one gets out of Sensors vs. Stealth...and yet folks are still complaining out the wahzoo about it. It's like the folks complaining about Warbirds - they get +55 Stealth Value and can lose up to 400 Stealth Value with 5 Singularity pips.
It's like anything else - folks just want to fly around with starfighters...complaining about anything that means they might have to adjust their builds or think about what they have to do.
For somebody to see you at 11km, they'd need X - 5233 = (11 * 50); X - 5233 = 550; X = 5783 Perception...although how they get there can include things like various levels of EPtA.
Base Perception is 5000, so they'd need 783 additional Perception. EPtA1 would give them 150, EPtA2 200, EPtA3 250 (I think - haven't really looked at EPtA3 lately - think it's still 3-4-5, might be different).
Say we knock off 200 for EPtA2 (common enough out there) - they'd need 583 Perception.
Well, beyond that - would need to know the modifier that it provides beyond the 2.5% - same with the likely deflector they're running outside of the 2% they're probably getting...but 1166's not hard to get at all. Throw in a Sensor Scan and - yeah - they're going to see you out well beyond 20km...
Thanks virus.. always love your posts Yup, my total and complete investment in stealth doesn't even matter, and my b'rel took penalties for hull, shields, boffs, etc.. for my cloak.
Yes, I also had 130 aux due to my warp core engine
In fact, I can tell you his SDR is over 2600
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MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Seeing a cloaker does NOT mean automatic kill. It becomes like fighting an escort bc you can see him, his buffs and his target. But escorts still get kills right? Escorts do run away out of range sometimes right?
SAME S**T. Just they cant always fly around with impunity. They flew around long enough with impunity now people built counters to it.
Its it fair? Well I argue 6 figure single shot hits on competent players isn't fair either so Ce La Vie.
Yes and no, most vape builds currently are completely glass cannons that rely on console swapping with impulse cell + battle cloak to escape.
If you can catch them early and focus them they generally pop in one volley.
Even guys like Janus die almost instantly the second they are targeted.
Detection early is the key else they vape at will really and suffer no consequence when no one can even get a shot on them before they escape.
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Your investment was basically worthless because Starship Stealth Skill is the worst skill...so a heavy investment in it is going to provide a crappy return.
edit: The harsh in this post wasn't directed at you - rather directed at Cryptic. It's just annoying how many things are broken with Stealth (EPtA doesn't boost, Rem/Rom Deflectors don't boost, etc) - the value one gets out of Sensors vs. Stealth...and yet folks are still complaining out the wahzoo about it. It's like the folks complaining about Warbirds - they get +55 Stealth Value and can lose up to 400 Stealth Value with 5 Singularity pips.
It's like anything else - folks just want to fly around with starfighters...complaining about anything that means they might have to adjust their builds or think about what they have to do.
yes, I know it is going to provide a crappy return.. you helped me prove it which is why TDF needs to be given to KDF. Give feds a KDF costume to wear to be equivalent with the ionized gas sensor console.
However, i would settle for them just either fixing stealth so that my total and complete investment in stealth actually matters or nerfing the damned console, because I am not able to do anything further to prevent detection.
This all became a larger problem when they stopped subterfuge from stacking.. at least that way, we had a chance for stealth to matter when someone used the TDF console
The TDF console wasn't scaled properly when subterfuge stacking was nerfed.
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MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Note for the record - putting the TDF console on the no BS list effectively would make vape builds unbeatable in premade matches, therefore I wouldnt participate on those grounds alone.
It is the only hard counter, early detection, and there has been a strong movement to exclude builds running the console from private matches. (mostly by teams that are currently fielding double vaper teams in the public queues)
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I disagree. I can sneak right up a snooper's a-hole when his TDF and EPtA are on CD. People sneak up my TDF Neb a-hole all the time too. Passive detection is awful. These things give burst (active) detection for a very short window. I have no problem with it on either side.
I am curious, how do you think stealth and detection should work?
I disagree. I can sneak right up a snooper's a-hole when his TDF and EPtA are on CD. People sneak up my TDF Neb a-hole all the time too. Passive detection is awful. These things give burst (active) detection for a very short window. I have no problem with it on either side.
I am curious, how do you think stealth and detection should work?
Console swappers have a near 100 percent uptime on TDF though, that however is another animal entirely.
I do NOT support console swapping. The proposed 30 second lockout is laughable and needs to be 3 minutes for space gear.
The problem is not TDF, it is console swapping.
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The lack of the TDF console puts the KDF faction at a serious disadvantage. It should be rectified.
There is nothing wrong with the current state of stealth detection, any reduction to stealth detection would be detrimental to the balance of the game.
I do NOT support console swapping. The proposed 30 second lockout is laughable and needs to be 3 minutes for space gear.
The 30 second lockout was put into place to fix kit swapping rather than console swapping. The lockout fixes all kit swapping Ground combat exploits. Yes, it doesn't help space much, but it has a major impact on Ground PvP gameplay.
On my b'rel, I have:
3 mk12 very rare stealth modules
Rom subterfuge boff
+26 stealth deflector
9 points in stealth
i am being detected at greater than 11KM. Not asking for perfect stealth, but just what do you propose I do when he can't be vaped and always has a group of tacs with him?
Always running is not the answer.
Why would I even invest in stealth when it is worthless with that console?
Run a different ship.
I'm serious to... why should a ship built completely to nullify another not be valid.
I can fly around in a tier 2 ship if I keep a pack of friends floating around me I won't die either. lol
Yes I get it you have max stealth spend. I don't see the point... you have 3 stealth consoles thats nice he likely has 4 or 5 sensor consoles. You have full stealth point spend ok he has full sensor spend. You are using a ship inate ability to cloak... and it runs as long as you have it on... and has a 20s cool down. He is using a console slot and gets an ability to detect you anywhere for a few seconds ever 2 min.
I don't see that being broken.
Crazy idea Vape isn't the solution to that puzzle. So run something else. You have discovered the down side to min maxing... they are very very predictable builds. The vaper build is super predictable. All you have to do is nullify your cloak and your worthless. That isn't that stealth detection is OP... its that your build is super weak to it. Get detected get dead. On the other side of the coin. His build is pretty much worthless vs non cloaking ships most likely.
The 30 second lockout was put into place to fix kit swapping rather than console swapping. The lockout fixes all kit swapping Ground combat exploits. Yes, it doesn't help space much, but it has a major impact on Ground PvP gameplay.
Thats fine, 30 seconds on ground, 180 seconds on space
Id support that.
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Thats fine, 30 seconds on ground, 180 seconds on space
Id support that.
A more permanent solution would be to remove the cooldown countdown while in inventory. You can't console swap if the console remembers the cooldown when you throw it back into inventory. That is how Cryptic fixed the dreaded bridge officer swapping exploit that Bird of Prey players used ages ago.
Its OP as long as its Fed only, able to be used from EBC, and swapping it removes cooldown. Fix those things and also fix the stealth skill so its worth speccing in to and there is no problem.
Its OP as long as its Fed only, able to be used from EBC, and swapping it removes cooldown. Fix those things and also fix the stealth skill so its worth speccing in to and there is no problem.
Fix the EPtA +Stealth and the +Stealth from Rem/Rom Deflectors as well!
Because he has a complete and total investment in stealth detection... so why should your points matter more then his ?
As I have said countless times.. he SHOULD detect me, but when I have a complete and total investment in stealth, he should NOT detect me at >11KM like he currently does.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Meh, it's not really a hijack - since there's also the general discussion about Stealth/Perception taking place...but uh, I wanted to bring this up as well. Just from something I've been dorking about with Willard over on Tribble - though the issue bit exists on Holo as well (have complained about it in more than a few threads - and - goes with my general complaints on calc/recalc issues in STO).
Willard's on NRC and beams up to his ship.
Stealth Detection Rating: 562.47
Willard unslots his Rom Mk XII Deflector and reslots it.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Willard unslots one of the +Sens Shield Refreqs and reslots it.
Stealth Detection Rating: 557.46
Willard again unslots/reslots the Deflector.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Willard goes to Sector Space and then returns to New Rom orbit.
Stealth Detection Rating: 495.45
Willard again unslots/reslots the Deflector.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Annoying, eh? You also run into issues with when you slot TDG/TDF (though I no longer have a Fed toon and never had TDF, the issue does present itself with TDG where you'd need to reslot the Deflector last).
Okay then, the other part then of what I was going to babble about.
That 567.47 is at 100 Aux, the Rom Mk XII Deflector, 4x +Sens (+20 Sensors each) consoles, Astrophysicist trait, for a total of 144 Sensors. He's only got 3 in Sensors giving him +54 Sensors (+80 from consoles and +10 from the trait).
Hitting EPtA2 boosts him to 125 Aux, taking his SDR to 638.08 - keep in mind, he's also getting 4km Perception Range on top of that.
638.08 SDR leads to 5319.04 Perception, add in the 4km (1km = 50), so he's got 5519.04 Passive Perception. Yes, even with EPtA2 - it's Passive - cause he's got full uptime on EPtA2.
A Warbird with 125 Aux and a Sub/Infil/Pirate BOFF will be looking at 5180 Stealth Value.
5519.04 - 5180 = 339.04 / 50 = 6.7808km
So, Willard can see the typical Warbird at almost 7km. The typical KDF cloak is 55 less than the Warbird.
5519.04 - 5125 = 394.04 / 50 = 7.8808km
So he could see them at almost 8km.
Keep in mind, that's just 4x +20 Sensors Shield Refreqs - it's not +30 Rom Sensors with [ShH] and [HuH] going for them...and it's just 4x, not the potential 5x available in other ships.
I pop EPtA2 and Sensor Scan, he's at 1248.18 SDR for 20s. That's 5624.09 Perception for 20s. That's almost 13km on the Warbird and almost 14km on the non-Warbird for 20s.
Let's pull the 4x +Sens. So now Willard's just sporting 64 Sensors (3 for 54 and the trait for 10), giving him a SDR of 430.55 before the EPtA...478.00 with it. Giving him a Perception of 5439. 5.18km on the Warbird and 6.28km on the non-Warbird. That's with just 64 Sensors, EPtA2, and the Rom Deflector.
Scan would take that to 888.00 for 20s, 5644 Perception for 20s...9.28km on the Warbird and 10.38km on the non-Warbird. Again, that's just 64 Sensors, EPtA2, and the Rom Deflector before using Scan.
But that's with EPtA2, man...EPtA2, man...okay, EPtA1 it...and...subtract 1km. That's the difference between EPtA2 and EPtA1. EPtA3 adds 1km.
Course, the EPtA2's also giving +15 Grav/Part/Decomp. That Rom Deflector's giving +39.4 Dapers/Grav and +26.2 Decomp. So uh, you know - if you wanted to VM and Tractor the target so a team mate could frag the living daylights out of them.
Heck, the ship Willard's in is the free DSD...drop the VM out, go Tac, and frag the living daylights out of them himself, eh? Okay, lol - not me - but somebody that can actually kill stuff. :P
Basically, the gist is...I feel no pity in the least for somebody complaining that a cloaker is stealing beer from their fridge when a few simple things - and - that's not happening. Kick it up a notch and they're not even getting into the neighborhood. If somebody's sitting there in their ship, knowing that they're potentially going to be facing cloakers and they're doing absolutely nothing about that...it's entirely on them. This isn't pre-LoR - there be Romulans in the FvF queues...that excuse died that day.
edit: Oh btw, how does a Caprimul dropping out Photon Barrage, Shield Inversion, Tet Cascade, Isometric, and some overly buffed special Photons sound? I've been thinking about changing from the T'varo...
Good point, but I don't think 1 more sci console on a different ship using a stealth console is going to matter. Do you?
I don't really find it any different then using any science skill. The counters are always easier to spec. 6 points in a counter is enough to neuter most science skills. I believe 6-9 points in sensors should be enough to make cloak far less effective as well. Not 20k or anything... but that is the console doing that... and it has a short uptime long cool down time and should be fairly easy to avoid. In my experience with my own sci full sensor spend is enough to get me reliable around 4k detection... using EPTA I can get out to 8-12k or so depending... I would hardly call that a great counter to stealth. It is though a very good counter to the vape tactic.
To be honest I think cloak ships in general have just gotten really used to being able to walk right in with no issues. Based on that I am quite fine with very min maxed snooper sci builds nullifying the tactic. They hardly nullify stealth... you can't tell me when your circling 15k+ out he is finding you all that often. Sure when he pops the console he has a few seconds to chase you down... really though at that point you should the advantage as far as evading him for 15s.
I just don't see this console as being op. So it revels cloakers for a few seconds... really I am a bit shocked Cryptic didn't add actual skills like that from day one... and at this point doffs.
I would love to see a CPB doff... one that adds a 10k Ping effect that revels but doesn't decloak for a few seconds. So 5km range you get hit and decloaked by CPB... and from 5.01-10k you get hit with the Ping effect that reveals you for 5-10s.
I will admit this sort of sucks for Klingons they get the shaft because there ships are <. Romulans though no sympathy at all... the anti cloak in the game should honestly be getting buffed not nerfed.
Its OP as long as its Fed only, able to be used from EBC, and swapping it removes cooldown. Fix those things and also fix the stealth skill so its worth speccing in to and there is no problem.
Comments
I saw the thread went quiet after I asked my question..
I'll go ahead and answer my own question as to why my total and complete investment in stealth doesn't matter...
BECAUSE IT IS OP!
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Hrmm...
3x Mk XII Stealth consoles = +90 Starship Stealth
Rom Sub BOFF = +150 Starship Stealth
Deflector = +26 Starship Stealth
9 Points Stealth = +99 Starship Stealth
365 Starship Stealth = 182.5 Stealth Value = 3.65 km of Stealth Range.
Would it pain you to know that EPtA1 gives 3km of Perception Range, meaning that all you did there was add 0.65km of Stealth Range?
Overall though, can say that with you sporting 125 Aux - you're running...
4925 (base 0 Aux) + 125 (125 Aux) + 183 (rounded 182.5) = 5233 Stealth Value
For somebody to see you at 11km, they'd need X - 5233 = (11 * 50); X - 5233 = 550; X = 5783 Perception...although how they get there can include things like various levels of EPtA.
Base Perception is 5000, so they'd need 783 additional Perception. EPtA1 would give them 150, EPtA2 200, EPtA3 250 (I think - haven't really looked at EPtA3 lately - think it's still 3-4-5, might be different).
Say we knock off 200 for EPtA2 (common enough out there) - they'd need 583 Perception.
Perception = 5000 * (1 + (SDR / 10000))
5583 = 5000 * (1 + (SDR / 10000))
1.1166 = 1 + (SDR / 10000)
0.1166 = SDR / 10000
1166 = SDR
Well, beyond that - would need to know the modifier that it provides beyond the 2.5% - same with the likely deflector they're running outside of the 2% they're probably getting...but 1166's not hard to get at all. Throw in a Sensor Scan and - yeah - they're going to see you out well beyond 20km...
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Your investment was basically worthless because Starship Stealth Skill is the worst skill...so a heavy investment in it is going to provide a crappy return.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=916621
edit: The harsh in this post wasn't directed at you - rather directed at Cryptic. It's just annoying how many things are broken with Stealth (EPtA doesn't boost, Rem/Rom Deflectors don't boost, etc) - the value one gets out of Sensors vs. Stealth...and yet folks are still complaining out the wahzoo about it. It's like the folks complaining about Warbirds - they get +55 Stealth Value and can lose up to 400 Stealth Value with 5 Singularity pips.
It's like anything else - folks just want to fly around with starfighters...complaining about anything that means they might have to adjust their builds or think about what they have to do.
Thanks virus.. always love your posts
Yes, I also had 130 aux due to my warp core engine
In fact, I can tell you his SDR is over 2600
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MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Yes and no, most vape builds currently are completely glass cannons that rely on console swapping with impulse cell + battle cloak to escape.
If you can catch them early and focus them they generally pop in one volley.
Even guys like Janus die almost instantly the second they are targeted.
Detection early is the key else they vape at will really and suffer no consequence when no one can even get a shot on them before they escape.
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yes, I know it is going to provide a crappy return.. you helped me prove it which is why TDF needs to be given to KDF. Give feds a KDF costume to wear to be equivalent with the ionized gas sensor console.
However, i would settle for them just either fixing stealth so that my total and complete investment in stealth actually matters or nerfing the damned console, because I am not able to do anything further to prevent detection.
This all became a larger problem when they stopped subterfuge from stacking.. at least that way, we had a chance for stealth to matter when someone used the TDF console
The TDF console wasn't scaled properly when subterfuge stacking was nerfed.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
It is the only hard counter, early detection, and there has been a strong movement to exclude builds running the console from private matches. (mostly by teams that are currently fielding double vaper teams in the public queues)
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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Non-Sci Vessel
75 Aux
3 Sensors (54 Sensors)
They're going to have 5023.1 Perception.
Same guy in a Sci Vessel 5069.3 Perception.
That's a difference of 0.924km...
Same guy in a Sci Vessel with 130 Aux will have 5120.12 Perception.
That's a difference of 1.9404km...
Same guy in a Sci Vessel with 130 Aux and 9 Sensors (99 Sensors) will have 5155.22 Perception.
That's a difference of 2.6424km...
Then you toss in various Deflectors, consoles, Sensor Scan, etc, etc, etc...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=823621
Thanks again, virus... conclusion... OP
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MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I am curious, how do you think stealth and detection should work?
Typical Warbird, 125 Aux, Sub/Infil/Pirate Cloak...5180.
Alpha Deception Field...Feign Death...over 7000.
2600 SDR even with EPtA3 is not going to see that...while you're grabbing a bag of Cheetos out of their pantry.
30s of neener neener...
Console swappers have a near 100 percent uptime on TDF though, that however is another animal entirely.
I do NOT support console swapping. The proposed 30 second lockout is laughable and needs to be 3 minutes for space gear.
The problem is not TDF, it is console swapping.
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There is nothing wrong with the current state of stealth detection, any reduction to stealth detection would be detrimental to the balance of the game.
Some cloakers are simply spoiled.
The 30 second lockout was put into place to fix kit swapping rather than console swapping. The lockout fixes all kit swapping Ground combat exploits. Yes, it doesn't help space much, but it has a major impact on Ground PvP gameplay.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Run a different ship.
I'm serious to... why should a ship built completely to nullify another not be valid.
I can fly around in a tier 2 ship if I keep a pack of friends floating around me I won't die either. lol
Yes I get it you have max stealth spend. I don't see the point... you have 3 stealth consoles thats nice he likely has 4 or 5 sensor consoles. You have full stealth point spend ok he has full sensor spend. You are using a ship inate ability to cloak... and it runs as long as you have it on... and has a 20s cool down. He is using a console slot and gets an ability to detect you anywhere for a few seconds ever 2 min.
I don't see that being broken.
Crazy idea Vape isn't the solution to that puzzle. So run something else. You have discovered the down side to min maxing... they are very very predictable builds. The vaper build is super predictable. All you have to do is nullify your cloak and your worthless. That isn't that stealth detection is OP... its that your build is super weak to it. Get detected get dead. On the other side of the coin. His build is pretty much worthless vs non cloaking ships most likely.
Because he has a complete and total investment in stealth detection... so why should your points matter more then his ?
Thats fine, 30 seconds on ground, 180 seconds on space
Id support that.
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A more permanent solution would be to remove the cooldown countdown while in inventory. You can't console swap if the console remembers the cooldown when you throw it back into inventory. That is how Cryptic fixed the dreaded bridge officer swapping exploit that Bird of Prey players used ages ago.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Fix the EPtA +Stealth and the +Stealth from Rem/Rom Deflectors as well!
As I have said countless times.. he SHOULD detect me, but when I have a complete and total investment in stealth, he should NOT detect me at >11KM like he currently does.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Good point, but I don't think 1 more sci console on a different ship using a stealth console is going to matter. Do you?
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Willard's on NRC and beams up to his ship.
Stealth Detection Rating: 562.47
Willard unslots his Rom Mk XII Deflector and reslots it.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Willard unslots one of the +Sens Shield Refreqs and reslots it.
Stealth Detection Rating: 557.46
Willard again unslots/reslots the Deflector.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Willard goes to Sector Space and then returns to New Rom orbit.
Stealth Detection Rating: 495.45
Willard again unslots/reslots the Deflector.
Stealth Detection Rating: 567.47
Annoying, eh? You also run into issues with when you slot TDG/TDF (though I no longer have a Fed toon and never had TDF, the issue does present itself with TDG where you'd need to reslot the Deflector last).
Okay then, the other part then of what I was going to babble about.
That 567.47 is at 100 Aux, the Rom Mk XII Deflector, 4x +Sens (+20 Sensors each) consoles, Astrophysicist trait, for a total of 144 Sensors. He's only got 3 in Sensors giving him +54 Sensors (+80 from consoles and +10 from the trait).
Hitting EPtA2 boosts him to 125 Aux, taking his SDR to 638.08 - keep in mind, he's also getting 4km Perception Range on top of that.
638.08 SDR leads to 5319.04 Perception, add in the 4km (1km = 50), so he's got 5519.04 Passive Perception. Yes, even with EPtA2 - it's Passive - cause he's got full uptime on EPtA2.
A Warbird with 125 Aux and a Sub/Infil/Pirate BOFF will be looking at 5180 Stealth Value.
5519.04 - 5180 = 339.04 / 50 = 6.7808km
So, Willard can see the typical Warbird at almost 7km. The typical KDF cloak is 55 less than the Warbird.
5519.04 - 5125 = 394.04 / 50 = 7.8808km
So he could see them at almost 8km.
Keep in mind, that's just 4x +20 Sensors Shield Refreqs - it's not +30 Rom Sensors with [ShH] and [HuH] going for them...and it's just 4x, not the potential 5x available in other ships.
I pop EPtA2 and Sensor Scan, he's at 1248.18 SDR for 20s. That's 5624.09 Perception for 20s. That's almost 13km on the Warbird and almost 14km on the non-Warbird for 20s.
Let's pull the 4x +Sens. So now Willard's just sporting 64 Sensors (3 for 54 and the trait for 10), giving him a SDR of 430.55 before the EPtA...478.00 with it. Giving him a Perception of 5439. 5.18km on the Warbird and 6.28km on the non-Warbird. That's with just 64 Sensors, EPtA2, and the Rom Deflector.
Scan would take that to 888.00 for 20s, 5644 Perception for 20s...9.28km on the Warbird and 10.38km on the non-Warbird. Again, that's just 64 Sensors, EPtA2, and the Rom Deflector before using Scan.
But that's with EPtA2, man...EPtA2, man...okay, EPtA1 it...and...subtract 1km. That's the difference between EPtA2 and EPtA1. EPtA3 adds 1km.
Course, the EPtA2's also giving +15 Grav/Part/Decomp. That Rom Deflector's giving +39.4 Dapers/Grav and +26.2 Decomp. So uh, you know - if you wanted to VM and Tractor the target so a team mate could frag the living daylights out of them.
Heck, the ship Willard's in is the free DSD...drop the VM out, go Tac, and frag the living daylights out of them himself, eh? Okay, lol - not me - but somebody that can actually kill stuff. :P
Basically, the gist is...I feel no pity in the least for somebody complaining that a cloaker is stealing beer from their fridge when a few simple things - and - that's not happening. Kick it up a notch and they're not even getting into the neighborhood. If somebody's sitting there in their ship, knowing that they're potentially going to be facing cloakers and they're doing absolutely nothing about that...it's entirely on them. This isn't pre-LoR - there be Romulans in the FvF queues...that excuse died that day.
edit: Oh btw, how does a Caprimul dropping out Photon Barrage, Shield Inversion, Tet Cascade, Isometric, and some overly buffed special Photons sound? I've been thinking about changing from the T'varo...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I don't really find it any different then using any science skill. The counters are always easier to spec. 6 points in a counter is enough to neuter most science skills. I believe 6-9 points in sensors should be enough to make cloak far less effective as well. Not 20k or anything... but that is the console doing that... and it has a short uptime long cool down time and should be fairly easy to avoid. In my experience with my own sci full sensor spend is enough to get me reliable around 4k detection... using EPTA I can get out to 8-12k or so depending... I would hardly call that a great counter to stealth. It is though a very good counter to the vape tactic.
To be honest I think cloak ships in general have just gotten really used to being able to walk right in with no issues. Based on that I am quite fine with very min maxed snooper sci builds nullifying the tactic. They hardly nullify stealth... you can't tell me when your circling 15k+ out he is finding you all that often. Sure when he pops the console he has a few seconds to chase you down... really though at that point you should the advantage as far as evading him for 15s.
I just don't see this console as being op. So it revels cloakers for a few seconds... really I am a bit shocked Cryptic didn't add actual skills like that from day one... and at this point doffs.
I would love to see a CPB doff... one that adds a 10k Ping effect that revels but doesn't decloak for a few seconds. So 5km range you get hit and decloaked by CPB... and from 5.01-10k you get hit with the Ping effect that reveals you for 5-10s.
I will admit this sort of sucks for Klingons they get the shaft because there ships are <. Romulans though no sympathy at all... the anti cloak in the game should honestly be getting buffed not nerfed.
It should, since it reduces perception - if they can't see normally, etc, etc, etc.
It's been constantly getting buffed while cloak has been getting nerfed.
*cough*Acetons*cough*
'Fed only op giveklinksplox' bahahahaha.