Don't hold your breath. I'd be happy if they give the flanking damage at all.
Eh, they'll have to. It's not something that was vaguely mentioned or speculated, this was actually one of those things that was promised. I still think we might have a new BoP or a 3-pack comming that will bring this to KDF raiders as a 'promotion' of sorts.
If they don't give this, they'll face another riot and I think that they've had all the riots they can take lately, so there would be no point in pissing off the KDF playerbase on purpose at this time.
good question op. if we take the time in comparison they needed to bring in saucer-sep on gal-x/bring galaxy pack into game since they first announced on the old calendar we will probably have to wait for about 1-2 years... :mad:
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
well...you can Expect...but to me, the Galaxy rework looks a lot like avoidance behaviour-as in doing anything and everything to avoid doing anything for the red faction.
TBH I think it was largely grandstanding period and it didn't help the Galaxy Family of ship out much either. but we will see maybe with a Hanger full of Runabouts maybe the Attrocious Turn rate of the Gal-X may be some what better with the Galaxy Set bonus.
Thanks, just checked the Tribble subsection. Seems that the flanking is just around the corner with other added bonuses: +10% hull and +10% damage after decloaking! Sounds great.
Seems that my lovely little B'rel will get much more playtime soon.
The only thing left for me to hope is that they could manage to pull a new BoP through together with this, to "promote" these enhancements. Something in the lines of C-Store or Fleet Hegh'ta, Cryptic?
The only thing left for me to hope is that they could manage to pull a new BoP through together with this, to "promote" these enhancements. Something in the lines of C-Store or Fleet Hegh'ta, Cryptic?
No, no, don't give them any ideas - that's not an OR situation!
Still, comparing the BoP's and the Warbirds, after traits and stuff, I'd kinda like to see 1 or 2 of these things happen before changes go live:
1: change 10% hull buff to 15%
2: also add 10% to shields
3: add the ensign
4: add the 3rd aft weapon
No, no, don't give them any ideas - that's not an OR situation!
Still, comparing the BoP's and the Warbirds, after traits and stuff, I'd kinda like to see 1 or 2 of these things happen before changes go live:
1: change 10% hull buff to 15%
2: also add 10% to shields
3: add the ensign
4: add the 3rd aft weapon
Nevertheless, happy something's happening
Eh, while all of that would be nice to have it could start turning the BoPs into something very similar to other ship classes. What I love about the BoP gameplay is that it's so different from anything else in game and really adds a special and unique flavor for the Klingon faction.
The changes being made I feel will keep the raiders being....well raiders, while giving the competent and very skilled KDF Captains a new competitive value they could squeeze from the BoPs.
I was looking at my Fleet B'rel when I was making the observation. With 27k hull and the flanking and damage bonuses I can make it work much better. I'm a nasty SOB in my T'Varo - I'll have less hull here, but all universals + 23 turn rate....I'll be an even nastier SOB in the B'rel. :P
Eh, while all of that would be nice to have it could start turning the BoPs into something very similar to other ship classes. What I love about the BoP gameplay is that it's so different from anything else in game and really adds a special and unique flavor for the Klingon faction.
The changes being made I feel will keep the raiders being....well raiders, while giving the competent and very skilled KDF Captains a new competitive value they could squeeze from the BoPs.
I was looking at my Fleet B'rel when I was making the observation. With 27k hull and the flanking and damage bonuses I can make it work much better. I'm a nasty SOB in my T'Varo, I'll have less hull here, but all universals + 23 turn rate....I'll be an even nastier SOB in the B'rel. :P
Definitely got a point, there - the BoP isn't the choice for the faint of heart or the unskilled and should probably remain that way, being a bit of a bare bones starship.
The changes as announced will make me plenty happy and dangerous, don't get me wrong
It's just that the KDF still can't really field an equivalent to the Warbirds in some respects, and that kind of bugs me. It would probably be better to get that fixed through 1 or 2 extra Raptors with non-tac/uni Lt Cmdr, but I just don't see that happening. Hence my thinking out loud on BoP - Warbird balance, I guess.
Thanks, just checked the Tribble subsection. Seems that the flanking is just around the corner with other added bonuses: +10% hull and +10% damage after decloaking! Sounds great.
Seems that my lovely little B'rel will get much more playtime soon.
The only thing left for me to hope is that they could manage to pull a new BoP through together with this, to "promote" these enhancements. Something in the lines of C-Store or Fleet Hegh'ta, Cryptic?
Of course, the Ambush bonus doesnt work with the B'rel enhanced battle cloak unless you completely toggle it off. You only get the EBC +15% bonus, and no Ambush bonus, which appears to be reserved for a full decloak.
This is a thing with the Romulan T'varo since the Subterfuge ambush bonus doesnt show up with the EBC active.
Of course, the Ambush bonus doesnt work with the B'rel enhanced battle cloak unless you completely toggle it off. You only get the EBC +15% bonus, and no Ambush bonus, which appears to be reserved for a full decloak.
This is a thing with the Romulan T'varo since the Subterfuge ambush bonus doesnt show up with the EBC active.
True, but this is referring to using the B'rel as a torp boat. Which I give you that is probably suited best for, but I intend on using it with energy weapons as well and switch from time to time.
I'll end up using the B'rel anyway, mostly because of it's iconic stature and being the first thing that pops in my mind when I think of a Klingon Bird of Prey.
I also love the Hegh'ta, but without a fleet version it has a bit less hull and shields than a fleet B'rel.
Thanks, just checked the Tribble subsection. Seems that the flanking is just around the corner with other added bonuses: +10% hull and +10% damage after decloaking! Sounds great.
Seems that my lovely little B'rel will get much more playtime soon.
The only thing left for me to hope is that they could manage to pull a new BoP through together with this, to "promote" these enhancements. Something in the lines of C-Store or Fleet Hegh'ta, Cryptic?
+10% flanking bonus?
+10% decloak dmg bonus?
+30% Superior Subterfuge decloak dmg bonus instead of the default bonus?
Hmm...
Anyways, I don't think there will be a new BOP. It there is going to be one, I'd be very surprised.
I'll end up using the B'rel anyway, mostly because of it's iconic stature and being the first thing that pops in my mind when I think of a Klingon Bird of Prey.
Which is why I can't understand why the BOP line wasn't given more. It's like giving a Galaxy or Sovereign very low stats. If they change the 10% to 10K more hull that would work better as really the KDF lacks good tactical ships, the Raptors are broken with that pivot point and so we're stuck using battlecruisers or lock box ships, neither of which are desirable if you want the full tactical experience like other factions.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Which is why I can't understand why the BOP line wasn't given more. It's like giving a Galaxy or Sovereign very low stats. If they change the 10% to 10K more hull that would work better as really the KDF lacks good tactical ships, the Raptors are broken with that pivot point and so we're stuck using battlecruisers or lock box ships, neither of which are desirable if you want the full tactical experience like other factions.
Actually at some point of the game the bop line was among the strongest ship arround. On an average The forum had more threads on how op it was in some peoples in a week then we have t5 Connie threads in a year. So it was given a lot in the beginning.
But that is past and this ship line needs work. With the romulans out it has prety much nothing to offer left, it pays a high fee for functions romulans get for free. And I believe it needs far more then what has been announced,
Which is why I can't understand why the BOP line wasn't given more. It's like giving a Galaxy or Sovereign very low stats. If they change the 10% to 10K more hull that would work better as really the KDF lacks good tactical ships, the Raptors are broken with that pivot point and so we're stuck using battlecruisers or lock box ships, neither of which are desirable if you want the full tactical experience like other factions.
Well TBH, they don't seem to like the Galaxy Class much either, but that's a whole different topic.
I'm not sure wheather I'd like the BoPs to have 10k more hull as you suggested, because as I said before - that could start turning them into another ship class and currently the BoPs are very unique and niche that is very special to the Klingon faction. Not to mention the rivers of tears that would drown every living thing on Qo'noS demanding all Fed. escorts to have all universal Boff seating if this happened and then we can wave goodbye to anything left unique to the raiders.
I think that the alterations being made will be quite usefull in the hands of capable BoP Captains. I guess we'll wait and see how it rolls out in game. However, I'd much rather have them take a look at the Raptors then turning the BoPs into Raptors. The Bird of Prey has always been something significant and reckognizable for the Klingons in the Star Trek history and I'd like to have the BoPs in game providing that unique and 'special' flavor of gameplay reckognizable to the red faction.
Honestly, hull isnt a concern because being one shotted is part of the experience. Isnt it the ultimate klingon expression of space combat? The Romulans may have battle cloak on the D'deridex, but Klingons have BoPs.
Hull could have been a fix in lieu of better ones, but flanking is better. Take AWAY hull if only to make my damage better!
I am going to mess with a chroniton B'rel build on my mostly unused Trill Tac. I wish chronitons were better, and flanking could be the thing for me.
Agreed, BoPs aren't necessarily built to take a lot of punishment. In DS9, they're used more like oversized attack fighters. Decent punch and great maneuverability, but not a lot of durability. Honestly, I feel 10% is actually a good boost. For all of the Fleet Birds of Prey, it raises the hull from 24,750 to 27,225, or an increase of 2,475 hullpoints. At that point, the base hull is only about 5.8k hullpoints below the Fleet Defiant (which has 33,000 hull). Given the all-universal boffslots, the battlecloak, and the turning rate. . .I feel this works. Furthermore, it places the Fleet B'rel only 2475 hullpoints below the Fleet T'Varo. It makes the Fleet B'rel more competitive compared to the Fleet T'Varo, with the only major edge for the Romulan ship being the blatantly unbalanced Romulan crit bonuses and whatnot.
15% might be better than 10%, but I'll take 10% over 0%. At least the devs are addressing the fact that the Birds of Prey are being quickly obsoleted by the power creep that they, the devs, have allowed. The traditional advantages of the BoPs - the universal boffslots, turnrate, and battlecloak - have ALL been watered down in some way over the last 1-2 years. The obscene proliferation of universal boffslots amongst C-Store, Fleet, Lockbox, and Lobi ships, or making the turnrate advantage moot with the changes to the mechanic and the proliferation of Embassy and Fleet consoles that improve turnrate considerably, and the creation of all the battlecloaking Romulan ships (rather than being FAIR and keeping the Romulans at 'built-in standard cloaking' like the KDF) have all watered the class' strengths down.
Reading these here pages of how under performing Cryptic has made yet another Iconic Star trek ship under powered has mad me want to cry havoc and let slip the targs of war!
Reading these here pages of how under performing Cryptic has made yet another Iconic Star trek ship under powered has mad me want to cry havoc and let slip the targs of war!
Patience warrior, once these buffs hit Holodeck we'll let slip the targs of war once again!
Honestly, I feel 10% is actually a good boost. For all of the Fleet Birds of Prey, it raises the hull from 24,750 to 27,225, or an increase of 2,475 hullpoints. At that point, the base hull is only about 5.8k hullpoints below the Fleet Defiant (which has 33,000 hull). Given the all-universal boffslots, the battlecloak, and the turning rate. . .I feel this works. Furthermore, it places the Fleet B'rel only 2475 hullpoints below the Fleet T'Varo. It makes the Fleet B'rel more competitive compared to the Fleet T'Varo, with the only major edge for the Romulan ship being the blatantly unbalanced Romulan crit bonuses and whatnot.
I'm satisified with it for the smaller BOPs, but it doesnt do anything for the larger ones like the Hegh'ta and the Hoh'Sus. Right now those are big-ship models with small-ship stats, and there's not really a good reason to pick them vs the other BOPs that have better agility and smaller models with similar hit-points. They should be "heavy raiders" deep-water attack ships that are still premised sneaky and agile but can withstand some amount of direct combat, leaving the B'rel and Norgh as the shallow-water attack craft. Talking into a dead mic here but I will say it anyway, Hoh'Sus should get changed to 20 turn and 28k hull [currently 21 turn and 27k], Hegh'ta should be 18 turn and 30k hull [currently 21 turn and 27k]. There is still the Raider class for open warfare "escort" ships above those stats, Somraw has 31.5k hull and Qin has 33k, so the "heavy raiders" would still be much lighter than the raptor escorts.
ps--the Breen "heavy raider" is 19 turn and alomst 30k hull, and is a large craft (bigger than many escorts). Hoh'Sus and Hegh'ta should be in that range.
Now to get my Nausicaan Tac to level 50, load up on Pirates, and get a fleet Hoh'Sus.
As amusing as Romulans are, flanking is too crunchy to pass up. I wonder what a lvl 50 Romulan KDF could do with the t4 BoP? Romulan cloaking plus flanking? It still has Com BOFF seating, and 3 slots for Tac consoles... so it isnt wholy gimped versus t5, just mostly gimped.
In any case, it will be a good day to be one-shotted!
kdf players need something that is specific to them. and since every military ever assembled knows how to fire and maneuver (flanking) they need to change the name to "ambush" when cloak an poking because anyone in their right mind can flank
Section 31Lane/Jeffjr/Varek @jeffjr USS Stadi/USS Grendel/USS AshigaruDreadnought Class Refit / Avenger Class Refit/Rhode Island Class Refit"With your shield or on it"/"Mors venit ad omnes."/"One with courage is a majority"https://www.youtube.com/@jeffjr84
Klingon Raiders have received a good amount of tuning and improvements across the board.
All Tier 2 and above Klingon Raiders will receive a 10% boost to their base hull hit points.
This should help off-set the risk of using cloak to ambush your enemies.
Raider Flanking: Attacking enemies from their rear arc will grant the attacker a 25% bonus damage boost.
This bonus is significantly reduced (+25% down to +8.3%) when attacking a player's rear arc.)
Affects all Klingon Raiders, with the exception of the Tier 1 BRel Bird-of-Prey.
Improved Ambush Damage: The bonus damage awarded from existing cloak has been increased on any Klingon Raider that also has Raider Flanking.
Raiders receive an additional +10% bonus damage while flanking.
Comments
Heh, you're so innocent... You haven't observed Cryptic working too long, haven't you
Don't hold your breath. I'd be happy if they give the flanking damage at all.
Eh, they'll have to. It's not something that was vaguely mentioned or speculated, this was actually one of those things that was promised. I still think we might have a new BoP or a 3-pack comming that will bring this to KDF raiders as a 'promotion' of sorts.
If they don't give this, they'll face another riot and I think that they've had all the riots they can take lately, so there would be no point in pissing off the KDF playerbase on purpose at this time.
Joined January 2009
TBH I think it was largely grandstanding period and it didn't help the Galaxy Family of ship out much either. but we will see maybe with a Hanger full of Runabouts maybe the Attrocious Turn rate of the Gal-X may be some what better with the Galaxy Set bonus.
NICE!
If i could sit another Nausicaan in an Ensign chair, i would be very happy... but flanking would be plenty.
I wonder if the T'varo gets the Raider treatment or if it will be (Q.Q) time.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
WooHoo!
Thanks, just checked the Tribble subsection. Seems that the flanking is just around the corner with other added bonuses: +10% hull and +10% damage after decloaking! Sounds great.
Seems that my lovely little B'rel will get much more playtime soon.
The only thing left for me to hope is that they could manage to pull a new BoP through together with this, to "promote" these enhancements. Something in the lines of C-Store or Fleet Hegh'ta, Cryptic?
No, no, don't give them any ideas - that's not an OR situation!
Still, comparing the BoP's and the Warbirds, after traits and stuff, I'd kinda like to see 1 or 2 of these things happen before changes go live:
1: change 10% hull buff to 15%
2: also add 10% to shields
3: add the ensign
4: add the 3rd aft weapon
Nevertheless, happy something's happening
Eh, while all of that would be nice to have it could start turning the BoPs into something very similar to other ship classes. What I love about the BoP gameplay is that it's so different from anything else in game and really adds a special and unique flavor for the Klingon faction.
The changes being made I feel will keep the raiders being....well raiders, while giving the competent and very skilled KDF Captains a new competitive value they could squeeze from the BoPs.
I was looking at my Fleet B'rel when I was making the observation. With 27k hull and the flanking and damage bonuses I can make it work much better. I'm a nasty SOB in my T'Varo - I'll have less hull here, but all universals + 23 turn rate....I'll be an even nastier SOB in the B'rel.
Definitely got a point, there - the BoP isn't the choice for the faint of heart or the unskilled and should probably remain that way, being a bit of a bare bones starship.
The changes as announced will make me plenty happy and dangerous, don't get me wrong
It's just that the KDF still can't really field an equivalent to the Warbirds in some respects, and that kind of bugs me. It would probably be better to get that fixed through 1 or 2 extra Raptors with non-tac/uni Lt Cmdr, but I just don't see that happening. Hence my thinking out loud on BoP - Warbird balance, I guess.
Of course, the Ambush bonus doesnt work with the B'rel enhanced battle cloak unless you completely toggle it off. You only get the EBC +15% bonus, and no Ambush bonus, which appears to be reserved for a full decloak.
This is a thing with the Romulan T'varo since the Subterfuge ambush bonus doesnt show up with the EBC active.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
True, but this is referring to using the B'rel as a torp boat. Which I give you that is probably suited best for, but I intend on using it with energy weapons as well and switch from time to time.
I'll end up using the B'rel anyway, mostly because of it's iconic stature and being the first thing that pops in my mind when I think of a Klingon Bird of Prey.
I also love the Hegh'ta, but without a fleet version it has a bit less hull and shields than a fleet B'rel.
+10% flanking bonus?
+10% decloak dmg bonus?
+30% Superior Subterfuge decloak dmg bonus instead of the default bonus?
Hmm...
Anyways, I don't think there will be a new BOP. It there is going to be one, I'd be very surprised.
Wouldn't those alpha strikes be extra pretty?
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Which is why I can't understand why the BOP line wasn't given more. It's like giving a Galaxy or Sovereign very low stats. If they change the 10% to 10K more hull that would work better as really the KDF lacks good tactical ships, the Raptors are broken with that pivot point and so we're stuck using battlecruisers or lock box ships, neither of which are desirable if you want the full tactical experience like other factions.
Actually at some point of the game the bop line was among the strongest ship arround. On an average The forum had more threads on how op it was in some peoples in a week then we have t5 Connie threads in a year. So it was given a lot in the beginning.
But that is past and this ship line needs work. With the romulans out it has prety much nothing to offer left, it pays a high fee for functions romulans get for free. And I believe it needs far more then what has been announced,
Me too. That was - expect the worst, but hope for the best kinda' thing.
Well TBH, they don't seem to like the Galaxy Class much either, but that's a whole different topic.
I'm not sure wheather I'd like the BoPs to have 10k more hull as you suggested, because as I said before - that could start turning them into another ship class and currently the BoPs are very unique and niche that is very special to the Klingon faction. Not to mention the rivers of tears that would drown every living thing on Qo'noS demanding all Fed. escorts to have all universal Boff seating if this happened and then we can wave goodbye to anything left unique to the raiders.
I think that the alterations being made will be quite usefull in the hands of capable BoP Captains. I guess we'll wait and see how it rolls out in game. However, I'd much rather have them take a look at the Raptors then turning the BoPs into Raptors. The Bird of Prey has always been something significant and reckognizable for the Klingons in the Star Trek history and I'd like to have the BoPs in game providing that unique and 'special' flavor of gameplay reckognizable to the red faction.
Hull could have been a fix in lieu of better ones, but flanking is better. Take AWAY hull if only to make my damage better!
I am going to mess with a chroniton B'rel build on my mostly unused Trill Tac. I wish chronitons were better, and flanking could be the thing for me.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
15% might be better than 10%, but I'll take 10% over 0%. At least the devs are addressing the fact that the Birds of Prey are being quickly obsoleted by the power creep that they, the devs, have allowed. The traditional advantages of the BoPs - the universal boffslots, turnrate, and battlecloak - have ALL been watered down in some way over the last 1-2 years. The obscene proliferation of universal boffslots amongst C-Store, Fleet, Lockbox, and Lobi ships, or making the turnrate advantage moot with the changes to the mechanic and the proliferation of Embassy and Fleet consoles that improve turnrate considerably, and the creation of all the battlecloaking Romulan ships (rather than being FAIR and keeping the Romulans at 'built-in standard cloaking' like the KDF) have all watered the class' strengths down.
Patience warrior, once these buffs hit Holodeck we'll let slip the targs of war once again!
ps--the Breen "heavy raider" is 19 turn and alomst 30k hull, and is a large craft (bigger than many escorts). Hoh'Sus and Hegh'ta should be in that range.
As amusing as Romulans are, flanking is too crunchy to pass up. I wonder what a lvl 50 Romulan KDF could do with the t4 BoP? Romulan cloaking plus flanking? It still has Com BOFF seating, and 3 slots for Tac consoles... so it isnt wholy gimped versus t5, just mostly gimped.
In any case, it will be a good day to be one-shotted!
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Klingon Raiders have received a good amount of tuning and improvements across the board.
All Tier 2 and above Klingon Raiders will receive a 10% boost to their base hull hit points.
This should help off-set the risk of using cloak to ambush your enemies.
Raider Flanking: Attacking enemies from their rear arc will grant the attacker a 25% bonus damage boost.
This bonus is significantly reduced (+25% down to +8.3%) when attacking a player's rear arc.)
Affects all Klingon Raiders, with the exception of the Tier 1 BRel Bird-of-Prey.
Improved Ambush Damage: The bonus damage awarded from existing cloak has been increased on any Klingon Raider that also has Raider Flanking.
Raiders receive an additional +10% bonus damage while flanking.