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Let's talk about: Kit Powers

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  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Putting aside 'can it be put into the game or not' for a moment, letting people have their own choices freely I feel would be worse. Because through eventual min-maxing, people would figure out the best choices and options, and most likely ignore most other abilities.

    People will do that anyway, and they will simply ignore the kits that have a higher proportion of weak skills compared to a kit that has a higher proportion of strong skills. (like right now)

    Here's a quote for reference:
    The reason Rally Cry is not used is because of the limited usefulness of the Squad Leader Mk X kit. Rally Cry will make a comeback with the Mk XII version of Squad Leader. Suppression Fire II will bring the kit to a competitive level. The Rally Cry ability provides a small heal, +12% Critical Chance, +70% Critical Severity, and a small resistance/damage bonus. The 15 second uptime will work fine with the 45 second downtime, especially when the AoE nature is considered.

    Rally Cry, a good power, isn't utilized because its locked into a kit that overall isn't useful enough.


    MMOs will always have winners and losers in skills, powers, weapons, gear.

    Allowing the players to seek out the best is kind of the point, forcing them to ignore non-customizable items like kits, due to 1 or more "dud" powers just means those kits end up having no reason to exist as opposed to just the "dud" powers (or combination which might just not be synergistic).


    Instead, watch as the player base enforces survival of the fittest onto powers and then take a look at the outliers and see if they are too strong/too weak or where they should be and then apply changes accordingly.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    People will do that anyway, and they will simply ignore the kits that have a higher proportion of weak skills compared to a kit that has a higher proportion of strong skills. (like right now)

    Here's a quote for reference:

    Rally Cry, a good power, isn't utilized because its locked into a kit that overall isn't useful enough.

    MMOs will always have winners and losers in skills, powers, weapons, gear.

    Allowing the players to seek out the best is kind of the point, forcing them to ignore non-customizable items like kits, due to 1 or more "dud" powers just means those kits end up having no reason to exist as opposed to just the "dud" powers (or combination which might just not be synergistic).

    Instead, watch as the player base enforces survival of the fittest onto powers and then take a look at the outliers and see if they are too strong/too weak or where they should be and then apply changes accordingly.

    I admit Ultimatum, that is why I made my big ole tangent about how some kits have synergy (or lack there-of). Though whether a kit has synergy or not doesn't mean it is a good kit though either.

    Anyways, I do think that keeping kits is still a better option, because every kit and power should be worth using, hence the whole point of the thread. I don't like the idea of freely-slotted kits, because I think that people should be forced to make a decision. But on that note, every kit and it's powers needs to be worth making that decision for as well.

    You quoted Tira talking about Rally Cry, that's a good example.

    Rally Cry is a great ability, and if used well, can really boost a team's effectiveness. The other abilities on that kit though...

    Smoke Grenade (I've always felt it was...ok)
    Photon Grenade (which means sharing a CD with Smoke Grenade above, but a fairly useful ability)
    Overwatch (basically a multi-targetting APD on the ground, which debuffs and can expose enemies that shoot you and your team mates)

    The kit has decent synergy in that the two grenades are specced by 1 skill, and Overwatch and Rally Cry are (mostly) specced by one skill as well. But yes, the kit overall is rather lackluster.

    Everything should be worth using like I said, and I feel that the point of this thread should be how to make everything worth using.

    That does remind me, Hawk, if you read this and hopefully reply, are you planning, or at least considering moving some abilities on kits around even if you don't change the abilities at all? For example, I could see taking the Photon Grenade off of the Squad Leader kit, and putting in Motion Accelerator to better keep with the theme of the kit, and even improve the synergy it has.

    Also, Tira, is the Overwatch DOFF the only thing that can clear it? Not even Biofilter Sweep?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • snowpig74snowpig74 Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    For one, I'm curious how you all feel about kits. Are they fun pieces of equipment? Do you enjoy switching them up to change playstyles from time to time? What Kit Powers do you find especially fulfilling and fun, and what Kit Powers do you really want to like but just aren't there yet?

    Secondly, a number of the changes we're thinking about making involve increasing the cooldown of some Kit Powers, but boosting their effects to be worthy of the longer recharge. The reason for this is twofold - primarily, most of a player's actions on ground are Weapon activations, and the longer activation and root times of kit powers lend themselves less well to frequent use than do the short times of weapon powers. Second, having longer cooldown times on kit powers lets us make them really impactful when they do go off, so you only have to spend 1-2 seconds of animation to do something really cool.

    How would you feel about, say, Weapons Malfunction being a 60 second cooldown instead of 30 seconds - but being a much bigger deal when it goes off? Are there any Kit Powers that you really like being able to use every 15 seconds?

    Please feel free to provide general feedback on any Kit Powers you feel strongly about in any regard in this thread as well. Thanks! :)

    I have some mixed feelings about kit powers: on the one hand many of them are very nice, on the other they are to few and vary from vastly useful to completely useless.

    fun/nice kit powers:

    tac:
    photon grenade, lunge, rally cry

    eng:
    mines, turrets, mortars

    sci:
    tachyon harmonic, (looooooooooooooooooooooong gap), tachyon harmonic, did-i-mention-tachyon-harmonic?, ... nanite monitor


    no-so-fun/useless/annoying kit powers:

    tac:
    smoke grenade (feedback? does the enemy see me now?)
    battle strategies ( redundant?)

    eng:
    combat supply (yeah right, for people who cannot afford a hypo & 2mins cooldown on use)
    medical/shield generator (does not live long enough to be useful)

    sci:
    all drugs (yeah, gimme some melee-dope)
    vascular regenerator (yeah, give me some HoT when the borg hits me with 500-damage shots)
    biofilter sweep (what does that do again?)
    stasis field (what is the use of a 15 sec-easy to break-CC when the other teammates/bridge officers are shooting AoE and using AoE-powers?)


    About the idea of increasing the cooldowns:

    Not all the kit powers require rooting of the player. Especially most (important) tac powers can be used while running. Second: most (used) kit powers are quite impactful, therefore would an increase of the cooldowns be viewed at as a nerf.

    Therefore would be my answer: no, I do not need more impactful kit powers with even longer cooldowns.


    About (new) kit powers i would like to see:

    Tac:
    Defensive Position (similar to Hunker Down)
    Timed Photon grenade (you throw a grenade, second activation triggers it - similar to the transphasic bomb)
    Suppressive fire (change the animation: there should be some suppressive fire be visible)
    Feign death (zeroes the aggro until canceled, death animation)

    Eng:
    Combat supply (instead of giving consumables, increase damage, shield/life regeneration slightly while in range of the engineer)
    Overload Weapon (4sec root, 3x damage with secondary shot)
    Maintenance (sort of Triage but for mechanical devices)
    Rotating frequencies (slight damage buff, no borg adaptation)

    Sci:
    Aim at weak spot (increased chance for critical/severity/flank/expose - choose one)
    Nadion radiation (adds a temporarily Dot3 to next attack)
    electric discharge (close combat, high damage to mechanic, chains to nearby)
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Rally Cry, a good power, isn't utilized because its locked into a kit that overall isn't useful enough.

    MMOs will always have winners and losers in skills, powers, weapons, gear.

    Allowing the players to seek out the best is kind of the point, forcing them to ignore non-customizable items like kits, due to 1 or more "dud" powers just means those kits end up having no reason to exist as opposed to just the "dud" powers (or combination which might just not be synergistic).

    Instead, watch as the player base enforces survival of the fittest onto powers and then take a look at the outliers and see if they are too strong/too weak or where they should be and then apply changes accordingly.

    The reason so few people use Squad Leader is because the kit is lacking a short-term ability. Operative has Lunge and Fire Team has Suppressing Fire. Suppressing Fire is by far the best Tactical debuff in the game, it's basically Attack Pattern Beta with an added chance to knock engines offline after every application. It is cleared with Battle Strategies, which both the Fire Team and Operative kits possess.

    Now that Squad Leader Mk XII provides Suppression Fire II, the kit is going to see a comeback. Photon Grenade works very well when stacked with Target Optics + Rally Cry, there is a very high chance of Critically hitting the target when combined with those abilities. The Smoke Grenade is more useful in PvP than PvE, but at the very least it's another source of procs for grenade cooldown reduction duty officers. Rally Cry is very powerful and Overwatch is a large area of effect defensive aura. The only thing that could really change would be bumping the cooldown on Overwatch down to 60 seconds instead of 90. The ability is great, the duration is perfect, but the cooldown is quite painful. The 33% Overwatch uptime can't receive much of an uptime increase from Tactical Initiative because the cooldown on Tactical initiative is 120 seconds and the cooldown on Overwatch is 90 seconds.

    Anything with a 60+ second duration timer does not benefit well from Tactical Initiative. An ability with a 90 second cooldown will be reduced to 21.6 seconds, meaning the player will be 2.5~ seconds short of getting a second cooldown reduction out of Tactical Initiative.

    Compare that to Ambush (or anything with less than a 60 second cooldown), the captain may use Tactical Initiative to drop Ambush's 60 second cooldown to 14.4 seconds. Thus, the captain may chain the cooldown reduction for the ability three times during Tactical Initiative's 20 second uptime. The captain uses ambush to start off, they wait 14 seconds, they use Ambush again, they wait 14 seconds (Tactical Initiative drops off), and they use Ambush a third time. After that, it's back to normal cooldowns until Tactical Initiative drops off cooldown.

    Almost all kit abilities in the game are capable of similar chaining methods for the duration of Tactical Initiative. Overwatch, Motion Accelerator, Equipment Diagnostics, and Hypospray - Dylovene all have 90 second cooldowns. Everything else in the game is 60 seconds or less. As I said before, Equipment Diagnostics would function better as a 15 second duration with a 45 second cooldown instead of a 30 second duration with a 90 second cooldown. Overwatch would function better with a 30 second duration and a 60 second cooldown. Motion Accelerator is fine as is, it applies immunity to all control effects for a long duration, teams are already capable of chaining it for a decent uptime. Hypospray - Dylovene, as with Melorazine, really needs a complete overhaul. Cooldown reduction would help, but Dylovene is very situational (melee buff) and Melorazine suffers severely from damage resistance diminishing returns
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  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I
    Also, Tira, is the Overwatch DOFF the only thing that can clear it? Not even Biofilter Sweep?

    Biofilter Sweep clears "Toxic, Physical, and Mental Debuffs". Toxic and Physical debuffs typically means the player is under the effects of a damage over time effect. All damage over time effects are cleared via Vascular Regenerator (and Nanite Health Monitor in some cases), which is also a great heal. Mental debuffs are Orion Female Seduce, Neural Neutralizer, Vulcan Mind Meld, and Borg Neural Suppressant. It's also supposed to clear the salt Vampire confuse/mind effects, but it looks like Cryptic forgot to tag that as a debuff clearable by Biofilter Sweep. The Overwatch duty officer clears that at least. It is as I said, Biofilter Sweep is one of the most redundant abilities in the game.
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  • eatsmarteatsmart Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I'm sorry, I agree with a lot of the other things you have said in this thread, but I don't like this idea at all. Right now, Stealth Module is equivalent to Battle Cloak in space.

    My experience in colony invasion has been that being put into red alert by team based aoe procs (eg maco) has immediately resulted in NPCs shooting at me even though the proc is hitting thin air. It may be that an NPC cheats once you're on it's threat list. *shrug* I'll take your word for it.

    I'd still like to see SM incorporate some kind of minor reward for the player that stays in kit rather than merely swaps to the kit when situationally useful.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    eatsmart wrote: »
    My experience in colony invasion has been that being put into red alert by team based aoe procs (eg maco) has immediately resulted in NPCs shooting at me even though the proc is hitting thin air. It may be that an NPC cheats once you're on it's threat list. *shrug* I'll take your word for it.

    I'd still like to see SM incorporate some kind of minor reward for the player that stays in kit rather than merely swaps to the kit when situationally useful.

    NPCs have perception as well as players, they may detect players with a lower stealth rating at close range. However, players with the Covert trait are capable of maneuvering around NPCs without any risk of detection. There is one exception to this, Elite Tactical Drones and most endgame "bosses" (Armek, Manus, etc.) on the Elite difficulty tend to cheat, detecting players at any distance.

    Edit: Also, NPCs using AoE stealth debuffs (i.e. Tricorder Scan) will detect you if you get hit with the debuff.
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  • eatsmarteatsmart Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I'm not talking about being close to the npcs. I'm talking about being put into red alert by a team mate being shot at while they have an effect that triggers an aoe proc from themselves and all teammates. Proc rings expand around my character, character goes into red alert, NPCs in line of sight fire at distances well outside usual stealth detection range.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    eatsmart wrote: »
    I'm not talking about being close to the npcs. I'm talking about being put into red alert by a team mate being shot at while they have an effect that triggers an aoe proc from themselves and all teammates. Proc rings expand around my character, character goes into red alert, NPCs in line of sight fire at distances well outside usual stealth detection range.

    What is the stealth rating listed on the tooltip? That should give me a general idea. It's possible for players to get well within a group of NPC's stealth detection range without causing them to fire upon the player. If one of them is aggroed, they will attack the stealthed player. Your stealth rating should give me a general idea, there is a point where you should have "perfect stealth", meaning nothing should detect you.
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  • eatsmarteatsmart Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Tooltip lists +570
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    eatsmart wrote: »
    Tooltip lists +570

    That should be giving you perfect cloak. The only thing that should be still capable of attacking you is certian Captain level NPCs (Elite Tactical Drones), as they ignore perception.
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  • icegavelicegavel Member Posts: 991 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I haven't played with EVERY kit in the game - indeed, my knowledge of some Tactical Kits is limited. But, I will provide feedback on what I do know. Since my heaviest play has been Science - my Federation Science officer is by FAR my oldest existing character - many of my experiences will focus there.

    1: Engineering Toys (specifically Cover Shield - no, not a Kit power, but it falls into this category - As well as Generators and Turrets).
    Engineers lack the mobility for a lot of their Bunker Fab and Fab Engineering Kit powers to be worthwhile, often leaving them behind. This isn't much of an issue with Generators and Turrets, you just spawn another. But I don't like having a map littered with useless Gens and Turrets (if you spawn a turret far enough away, the old one stays). And with Cover Shield, if you plop it down wrong, it's worthless. So, my proposal is thus: Make Generators, Turrets and Cover Shields like Transphasic Bomb - after a few seconds, the Spawn power becomes a different power. If you activate this, the Turret, Generators or Cover Shield spawned by that power beams to your location (kind of like Draw Spirit in Guild Wars: Factions). You can re-use it as long as it lives. As well, I'd like a UI option similar to Carrier UI that allows me to see the Health of my fabrications. That way I know if one needs replacing (though, the power change would indicate that) or if they could be healed. Likewise, these Entities would have a very LONG natural life timer, that way you need not worry about it just expiring and fading (except the Cover Shield - its timer is long enough as is).

    2: Science Powers - Specifically, Hyposprays (not the items, the powers).
    These are Science buffs that do a couple things. Dylovene is a nifty little buff to Physical Damage and resistance. It also removes Toxic debuffs. Likewise, Melorazine removes mental debuffs and grants Energy Damage resists. Both have a long duration and a short CD, allowing someone to be buffed indefinitely with them. The problem with these are, the debuffs they cleanse on the Ground don't typically last long, and their buffs aren't noticeable at low levels, where BOffs commonly have them. If you want Rank 3 on your Captain, however, they only appear on the Physician Kit. This is a problem, because ANY other players in the game that see a Science Officer on the Ground typically chastise them if they aren't running a Medic Kit (the standard healer kit - at which, Medic excels PROFUSELY, to the point that a Medic runner, well-specced and skilled, is unkillable). So, no one NOTICES these skills, they're not that USEFUL compared to invincibility or damage (the Physicist Kit - similar in NAME ONLY to Physician - can melt whole groups jaw-droppingly quickly with the applicable DOffs, as everything in Physicist gains the Armor Shred from Biochemists and therefore having even one Biochemist means whatever a Physicist looks at loses 40 damage resist for a full minute, gets a pair of intense DoTs and gets rooted to the ground). In the current Sci meta, these abilities are not even CONSIDERED. So, they need a buff. If they gave Max Health (on dylovene) and Max Shield (on Melorazine), they would be far more noticeable. It may even revolutionize the Science meta.

    3: Science Kit - Borg Medical Analyzer.
    Anyone who played the STFs in their original incarnations remembers this kit. Some people considered it the best Science Kit in the game, and I consider it the progenitor, the grandfather, of modern Fleet Kits. For those of you that don't know what this kit was, it was a purple Mark X kit, which was basically the Medic Kit... but it replaced Triage III with Tachyon Harmonic III. This gave those using it a great healing potential with the ability to be slightly more offensive. It was a great Kit.
    So, where is it now?
    You can still find it - there are a FEW that have remained Un-Bound that you can get on the Exchange for large sums of EC (as even the Spire has yet to produce a truly GREAT Science Kit). It is so expensive because it doesn't drop anymore. Previously, its only source was as a drop from Armek of Borg. When the STFs were converted into their modern incarnations (indeed, I refer to this as their Regeneration, as they were badly in need of the change), Armek ceased dropping them. Nothing picked up the mantle. It simply no longer drops, no new Medical Analyzer Kits can come into being. So, what do I propose to fix this?
    Make the Borg Medical Analyzer Kit a requisition from Omega Rep - A T1 or T2 requisition, as it IS still just Mk X. As well, add Tactical and Engineering variants. For instance, you could have a Tactical Kit (let's call it Borg Resistance Combatant, as an example). It'd be, for instance, a Fire Team Kit that replaces Battle Strategies III with Rally Cry III. Likewise, there could be an Engineering Kit (let's call it Borg Defense Unit, as an example). It might be a Fab Specialist Kit that replaces the Quantum Mortar III with Fuse Armor III. Just examples, but it's a nice concept, and helps to introduce the idea of altered Kits for when new players go Fleet-grade.

    3: Fleet-grade Science Kits.
    This one's relatively short, I just want to say that the really high-end Kits from the Spire and (PARTICULARLY) the Embassy are pretty TRIBBLE for Science Officers. For the Spire kits, the Rank IV powers chosen are usually the crappiest of the Kits (Sonic Pulse being a PBAoE and hard to use and Medical Tricorder being forgotten in all but the "Oh TRIBBLE" situations, since the other heals cover it fine - I'd much rather have Triage IV), and the added power isn't terribly useful (sure, Tachyon Harmonic on Physicist is nice, but on the Medic Kit... Biofilter Sweep is kinda TRIBBLE - it does basically NOTHING that any other power doesn't do better).
    For the Embassy Kit... one, they gave us XENOBIOLOGIST. NO ONE uses Xenobiologist. It doesn't excel at anything. Second, it's Rank IV power is... Stasis Field. Stasis Field is and always has been useless, and nothing can fix it. It is useless because if ANYONE shoots the target in stasis, the stasis BREAKS. If it didn't, Stasis Field would be OP, as it would cause anyone to sit there for thirty seconds and take tons of damage with no hope and no chance of escape. Third isn't so much an ISSUE with the fifth power as the Kit in general. You gain access to Tachyon Harmonic. Tachyon Harmonic at Rank II isn't nearly as noticeable, but it helps. Problem is, it's on a Xenobiologist Kit, which historically has been so useless nothing can really help it. A polished TRIBBLE is still a TRIBBLE. And I don't buy turds with Dilithium.
    While the Spire was a step in the right direction... Cryptic still has some ways to go before Science Kits actually really shine as more than a niche thing. Problem is, they've Fleet-graded both of the good Kits, so there's nothing else worthwhile to polish.

    4: Problematic Science Powers
    Rambling about the Fleet Science Kits has reminded me... Several Science Kit powers are literally useless - killing the viability of Kits that have them. I instance three powers: Stasis Field, Anesthizine Gas, and Biofilter Sweep. As the class with the LEAST number of Kit Powers (Engineers have 15, Tacticals have 14, but Sci only has 12), having so many - indeed, fully a quarter of them - be useless is bad. Having all three of them on one Kit (Xenobiologist) makes an entire Kit worthless. And pre-Fleet, we only have six options. One is out of the running right off the bat complicates matters. Then you have the fall of the Bioresearch kit, with only two worthwhile powers (the other two being Stasis and Biofilter). Now, you have four viable choices as a Science Officer. Since most people consider the Hypospray powers useless, Physician is the third to fall. Analyst, the third pick, falls by the wayside, waylaid by its Anetrazine. It may have Triage AND Tachyon Harmonic, but those can't save a Kit. So, you have the meta Scis are faced with now: To Heal, or to Damage. Medic, or Physicist. They really are the only two viable Kits. In this and only this, I am an expert. I've played Sci on the ground pretty heavily, and for three years now. I've used every Kit. There are only two worth looking at.
    So, how do we fix this? How do we improve these powers? Well, the easiest is Anesthizine Gas. The Debuff needs to become similar to Plasma Fire - a good duration (its ten-second duration now is fine, but would be better with the following), but that refreshes as long as you're in the area of effect. Right now, you enter the cloud and get a debuff. Whether you leave the cloud or not once you have the debuff is irrelevant. You lose the debuff after ten seconds. Making this refresh if you're still IN the field would make the power... at least usable. To make it really GREAT, though, one other change is needed. When the debuff procs, it has a 50% chance to Stun for 7 seconds. Reduce this chance to 3%, but make the chance apply every second while someone is in the cloud. Since the cloud has a 30-second life, it statistically has a 99% chance to stun. A final optional change would mold this power to be like Smoke Grenade (since it basically is). Reduce the CD from 60s to 24s, and reduce the cloud to 18s (if doing so, the stun chance would become 5.5% and achieve the same effect). This might actually make the power a worthwhile pick, as right now it is not.
    Next up, we have Biofilter Sweep. With a 15s Duration, a minimal buff, and a 45s CD, it's really TRIBBLE. So, what does it need? Well... a longer duration is a good start. 20-30 seconds. Second, the buff needs... well, a buff. It literally only gives Damage Resistance. Granted, at rank III, it's 30%, but any Science Officer casting Buffs should have Medical Vanguard, in which case they're already getting 50% whenever they get buffed by ANYTHING (all of the Medic Kit will proc this - Triage procs it on ALL affected targets, even). And yes, this includes the Biofilter, but when you compare BFS to... Being immune to anything that doesn't one-shot you for 90 seconds (Nanite Health Monitor III - yes, it IS that good, I will swear by its effectiveness), a sizable single heal with a bigger-but-shorter Damage Resist Buff (Medical Tricorder III), a huge HoT with a slightly smaller and slightly shorter Damage Resist Buff (Vascular Regenerator III), or an absolutely massive AoE Heal with a bigger but shorter DR buff (Triage III)... it really wins no gold medals in the buff categories. But it could. Because Science officers cannot do ONE THING that a Support class really should be able to do... a shield heal. Science Officers just cannot heal shields. But Biofilter Sweep is supposed to sweep your whole body. Maybe a SMALL Shield Heal would help. Maybe 100 Shields at rank III. With a duration of 20s on the DR buff and a 30s CD (yes, its CD IS too long), this power would become VIABLE, if not a must-have.
    Finally, we have the rat of the bunch... Stasis Field. Stasis Field is a problem to fix. Like I said, the SIMPLE fix would make it incredibly overpowered. But leaving it alone makes it worthless in PvE - BOff AI isn't smart enough to avoid hitting the stasised enemy, either shotting it outright if not given a specific target, or hitting it with AoE attacks if given a nearby target. And how enemy AI seems to like to group like that, you really cannot keep a target in stasis unless your team is all players. However, in PvP, a smart team can make Stasis Field do true work, locking down the biggest threat and burning through smaller ones. So, I propose a debuff for coming out of stasis - early or otherwise. In the show, just about anyone has been seen to be disoriented for some time afterward. Represent this with a run speed and damage debuff for, say 10s, and a 10% chance after 5 seconds to stun for 5s. That way, breaking the stasis isn't the end of the world. It'd be better if the duration of the debuff increased based on how long you had left on the stasis when it broke. For instance, every second left on the stasis might add, say, 0.5 seconds to the aftermath debuff.

    In conclusion, I would like to propose also one of dStahl's oldest ideas... custom Kits. It would eliminate any uselessness in full Kits and allow larger customization. Fleet shops currently offering Mk XI/XII Kits would instead sell a Power Slot, as the Spire now offers Active Duty Officer slots. They would also sell the Rank IV items for powers. The system would need a LOT of work to succeed, but it does need to happen.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    You quoted Tira talking about Rally Cry, that's a good example.

    Rally Cry is a great ability, and if used well, can really boost a team's effectiveness. The other abilities on that kit though...

    I rescind my previous comment about Rally Cry, I had forgotten that Rally Cry's cooldown is 120 seconds, not 60 seconds. That is why nobody uses Squad Leader, the kit's two most powerful abilities (Overwatch and Rally Cry) have a one minute drought period where they can't do much of anything. Rally Cry needs to be rescaled around a 60 second cooldown and Overwatch needs to have it's cooldown reduced to 60 seconds. Until that happens, we won't be seeing much use out of the Squad Leader kit.
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  • eatsmarteatsmart Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Rally Cry, a good power, isn't utilized because its locked into a kit that overall isn't useful enough.

    If power was the factor for determining kit popularity, nobody would use anything other than Squad Leader for ESTFs. A group with a tac running the kit is minutes faster than a group with that same tac in another kit.

    Popularity comes down to two things really:
    Ego Gratification - Clicking a button that makes yellow numbers scroll past is more gratifying than clicking buttons that making the grey/white numbers from other people larger.
    Accessability - Using the kit well requires game knowledge, map knowledge and quick decision making about when its best to hold a buff so that it's available for a specific time ahead vs when to let rip for the sake of "even moar speedz!".

    A kit being unpopular isnt inherently a bad thing. It's healthy for the game for people to be preferring demonstrably 'inferior' kits, provided those kits are adequate to task and not too far behind the 'harder to use but stronger' kits.

    Which is eventually going to bring us back around to the question of is it appropriate for the "mash the mines button" kit/tactic to be universally successful throughout the game? I suspect it is a large culprit with regards to why there is such a percieved difficulty brick wall at Into the Hive. The game has given everyone a free pass till that point and now they're not experienced enough with the ground mechanics.
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited December 2013
    maybe Combat Supply could be changed to an AoE effect like Over watch with a healing/shield regent effect with a slight damage resistance component instead of a box on the ground or spewing out buffs other players would have to pickup to be useful.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • icegavelicegavel Member Posts: 991 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    kapla1755 wrote: »
    maybe Combat Supply could be changed to an AoE effect like Over watch with a healing/shield regent effect with a slight damage resistance component instead of a box on the ground or spewing out buffs other players would have to pickup to be useful.

    Actually, Combat Supply gives them temporary consumables they have to EQUIP to be useful. But that AoE suggestion can't happen. Engineers already DO that, Shield and Medical Generators. You're facing a problem we ALL have had for a long time - what could Combat Supply do that other powers don't? I'm in favor of just scrapping it entirely and replacing it in its relevant Kits with something more useful. Because there's nothing that power could reasonably do that another power doesn't.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've given the current Ground kit abilities considerable thought these last two days. I have a few ideas to suggest on changes to certain ground kit abilities in order to make them competitive with other kit abilities:
    • Engineering Kit abilities:
    • Combat Supply I/II/III - Range damage, shield capacity, and minor damage resistance buff. Affects Self and Team: +10/15/20% Ranged Weapon Damage, +6/8/10% Maximum Shield Capacity, +10/15/20 All Damage resistance for 20 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
    • Force Field Dome I/II/III: Deploys a mobile Force Field Dome around the Engineer (5 meter sphere) for 20 seconds. To self: Sprint Disabled. - To self and allies: +10/15/20% All Shield Damage resistance, +20 All Damage Resistance Rating, 10% chance to reflect a portion of incoming ranged attacks. To foe: Repel. 60 second cooldown.
    • Equipment Diagnostics III: Duration/cooldown changes: 20 second duration/60 second cooldown.
    • Medical Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile hit point healing field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +5/10/15 hit points/second, +15/20/25 All Damage Resistance Rating. 20 second shared cooldown with Shield Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Shield Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile shield healing field field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +6/8/10 shield regeneration/second, +10/15/20% All Shield Damage Resistance. 20 second shared cooldown with Medical Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Turret Fabrication III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-turret on the Engineer for 30 seconds. Attacks Engineer's currently selected enemy target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 30 meter range. 60 second cooldown. Uses special point defense plasma flamethrower fire attack with Romulan Embassy Turret IV.
    • Quantum Mortar Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-firing quantum mortar on the engineer for 30 seconds. Launches a quantum mortar every 3 seconds at the engineer's current target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 50 meter range, line of sight is not required. Quantum Mortar takes 3 seconds to reach the target and standard warning animations are present. Upon impact, deals X kinetic damage (50% shield penetration) in a 5 meter sphere. 50% chance: Knock back +10 meters. 60 second cooldown.
    • Transphasic Bomb: Deploys a Phased Transphasic Bomb for 60 seconds (+520 stealth), arms 3 seconds after deployed. Proximity detonation to enemy targets for X kinetic damage (50% Shield Penetration) in a 3 meter sphere, Knocks back +8 feet. 60 second cooldown begins at bomb deployment.
    • Science Kit abilities:
    • Stasis Field I/II/III/IV: Targets Foe: Disables selected enemy target and grants immunity to damage for 6/8/10/12 seconds, -50 runspeed and -15% All damage output for 20 seconds. Upon disable expiration: Immunity to Stasis effect for 30 seconds. Disable/immunity effect may be cleared via standard hold cleanses.
    • Anesthizine Gas (All versions): No change, though the gas cloud is currently bugged, failing to last the listed 30 seconds.
    • Biofilter Sweep (All versions): Keep the current effects while adding "Removes all Science debuffs for 5 seconds (Biochemist, Nanite Infestation, Stasis Field, Hyperonic Radiation, etc.)", "Removes all Roots for 5 seconds (including Cryo Immobilzer Module)", and "May be used while held".
    • Hypospray - Melorazine I/II/III: Keep the current effects while increasing the cooldown to 45 seconds, adding "+6/8/10% Perception for 45 seconds" and "Removes all holds and stuns for 15 seconds"
    • Hypospray - Dylovene I/II/III: Keep the current effects while reducing the ability duration to 20 seconds, adding "+6/8/10% Runspeed for 20 seconds", and dropping the cooldown to 60 seconds.
    • Hyperonic Radiation: Keep the current effects while adding "Reduces Shield healing effectiveness by 15% and increases Shield bleedthrough by 10% for 15 seconds."
    • Tactical kit abilities:
    • Draw Fire I/II/III: Keep the current effects while adding "When recieving all damage: 50% chance to apply: +10/15/20% All damage for 5 seconds (Stacks 4 times) while under the effects of Draw Fire."
    • Overwatch: Duration/cooldown changes: 20 second duration/60 second cooldown.
    • Rally Cry: Reduce the cooldown to 60 seconds and remove the ability to stack the buff (Similar to Strike Team, Scientific Aptitude, etc; activating a second copy replaces the first). Also, cut the Critical bonuses in half; +10/20/30/40% Critical Severity and +1/2/3/4% Critical Chance. Lastly, double the healing/second bonuses provided by the ability.
    • Stun Grenade (All versions): Keep the current effects while adding "Interupt", "-50 Runspeed for 15 seconds", and "50% chance to Confuse affected targets for 15 seconds".
    • Sweeping Strikes (All versions): Convert into an area of effect melee attack with a 10-20 second cooldown.
    • Motion Accelerator (All versions): Reduce the immunity to movement debuffs to 15 seconds and decrease the ability cooldown to 60 seconds.
    • Battle Strategies (All versions): Add a minor all damage resistance rating bonus (for example, +15/20/25 for Battle Strategies I, II, and III.
    • Suppressing Fire I/II/III: Remove the ability to stack suppressing fire from multiple sources (Again, similar to Strike Team, etc.) Also, add -5/10/15 All Damage Resistance Rating debuff to Suppressing fire in addition to the current damage dealing reduction.

    There are just some ideas I had on improving existing underperforming kit abilities to bring them up to par with some of the "better" kit abilities. Any thoughts?
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited January 2014
    Comments in red for clarity
    I've given the current Ground kit abilities considerable thought these last two days. I have a few ideas to suggest on changes to certain ground kit abilities in order to make them competitive with other kit abilities:
    • Engineering Kit abilities:
    • Combat Supply I/II/III - Range damage, shield capacity, and minor damage resistance buff. Affects Self and Team: +10/15/20% Ranged Weapon Damage, +6/8/10% Maximum Shield Capacity, +10/15/20 All Damage resistance for 20 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
      Like this maybe rename ability to be more fitting though
    • Force Field Dome I/II/III: Deploys a mobile Force Field Dome around the Engineer (5 meter sphere) for 20 seconds. To self: Sprint Disabled. - To self and allies: +10/15/20% All Shield Damage resistance, +20 All Damage Resistance Rating, 10% chance to reflect a portion of incoming ranged attacks. To foe: Repel. 60 second cooldown.
      Could be interesting, especially with the Voth Force field doff
    • Equipment Diagnostics III: Duration/cooldown changes: 20 second duration/60 second cooldown.
    • Medical Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile hit point healing field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +5/10/15 hit points/second, +15/20/25 All Damage Resistance Rating. 20 second shared cooldown with Shield Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Shield Generator Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a mobile shield healing field field around the Engineer for 20 seconds. To self and allies (5 meter sphere): +6/8/10 shield regeneration/second, +10/15/20% All Shield Damage Resistance. 20 second shared cooldown with Medical Generator Fabrication, 60 second cooldown.
    • Turret Fabrication III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-turret on the Engineer for 30 seconds. Attacks Engineer's currently selected enemy target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 30 meter range. 60 second cooldown. Uses special point defense plasma flamethrower fire attack with Romulan Embassy Turret IV.
    • Quantum Mortar Fabrication I/II/III: Deploys a shoulder mounted auto-firing quantum mortar on the engineer for 30 seconds. Launches a quantum mortar every 3 seconds at the engineer's current target, else attacks the nearest threatening target. 50 meter range, line of sight is not required. Quantum Mortar takes 3 seconds to reach the target and standard warning animations are present. Upon impact, deals X kinetic damage (50% shield penetration) in a 5 meter sphere. 50% chance: Knock back +10 meters. 60 second cooldown.
      So what happens when your duty officer procs to grant an additional fabrication?
    • Transphasic Bomb: Deploys a Phased Transphasic Bomb for 60 seconds (+520 stealth), arms 3 seconds after deployed. Proximity detonation to enemy targets for X kinetic damage (50% Shield Penetration) in a 3 meter sphere, Knocks back +8 feet. 60 second cooldown begins at bomb deployment.wouldn't this revert it to what it used to be with the proximity detonation ability?
    • Science Kit abilities:
    • Stasis Field I/II/III/IV: Targets Foe: Disables selected enemy target and grants immunity to damage for 6/8/10/12 seconds, -50 runspeed and -15% All damage output for 20 seconds. Upon disable expiration: Immunity to Stasis effect for 30 seconds. Disable/immunity effect may be cleared via standard hold cleanses.
    • Anesthizine Gas (All versions): No change, though the gas cloud is currently bugged, failing to last the listed 30 seconds.
    • Biofilter Sweep (All versions): Keep the current effects while adding "Removes all Science debuffs for 5 seconds (Biochemist, Nanite Infestation, Stasis Field, Hyperonic Radiation, etc.)", "Removes all Roots for 5 seconds (including Cryo Immobilzer Module)", and "May be used while held".
    • Hypospray - Melorazine I/II/III: Keep the current effects while increasing the cooldown to 45 seconds, adding "+6/8/10% Perception for 45 seconds" and "Removes all holds and stuns for 15 seconds"
    • Hypospray - Dylovene I/II/III: Keep the current effects while reducing the ability duration to 20 seconds, adding "+6/8/10% Runspeed for 20 seconds", and dropping the cooldown to 60 seconds.
    • Hyperonic Radiation: Keep the current effects while adding "Reduces Shield healing effectiveness by 15% and increases Shield bleedthrough by 10% for 15 seconds."
    No complaints from me on any of those possible changes

    • Tactical kit abilities:
    • Draw Fire I/II/III: Keep the current effects while adding "When recieving all damage: 50% chance to apply: +10/15/20% All damage for 5 seconds (Stacks 4 times) while under the effects of Draw Fire."
      50% maybe too high, but would make this a useful ability so fine with it
    • Overwatch: Duration/cooldown changes: 20 second duration/60 second cooldown.
    • Rally Cry: Reduce the cooldown to 60 seconds and remove the ability to stack the buff (Similar to Strike Team, Scientific Aptitude, etc; activating a second copy replaces the first). Also, cut the Critical bonuses in half; +10/20/30/40% Critical Severity and +1/2/3/4% Critical Chance. Lastly, double the healing/second bonuses provided by the ability.
    • Stun Grenade (All versions): Keep the current effects while adding "Interupt", "-50 Runspeed for 15 seconds", and "50% chance to Confuse affected targets for 15 seconds".
    • Sweeping Strikes (All versions): Convert into an area of effect melee attack with a 10-20 second cooldown.
      It already is an AoE melee attack affecting up to 6 targets max with a cd same as Rifle Butt or palm strike. I think it works fine as is but you have be close-in with the targets
    • Motion Accelerator (All versions): Reduce the immunity to movement debuffs to 15 seconds and decrease the ability cooldown to 60 seconds.
    • Battle Strategies (All versions): Add a minor all damage resistance rating bonus (for example, +15/20/25 for Battle Strategies I, II, and III.
    • Suppressing Fire I/II/III: Remove the ability to stack suppressing fire from multiple sources (Again, similar to Strike Team, etc.) Also, add -5/10/15 All Damage Resistance Rating debuff to Suppressing fire in addition to the current damage dealing reduction.
    Would that combined with the Dyson passive be OP?


    There are just some ideas I had on improving existing underperforming kit abilities to bring them up to par with some of the "better" kit abilities. Any thoughts?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kapla1755 wrote: »
    Comments in red for clarity

    1. Like this maybe rename ability to be more fitting though
    2. Medical/Shield/Turret/Mortar Fabrications - So what happens when your duty officer procs to grant an additional fabrication?
    3. Transphasic Bomb- Wouldn't this revert it to what it used to be with the proximity detonation ability?
    4. Draw Fire - 50% maybe too high, but would make this a useful ability so fine with it
    5. Sweeping Strikes - It already is an AoE melee attack affecting up to 6 targets max with a cd same as Rifle Butt or palm strike. I think it works fine as is but you have be close-in with the targets
    6. Suppressing Fire - Would that combined with the Dyson passive be OP?
    • Combat Supply - The buff would technically make a sensible "Combat supply" bonus. The team receives a minor damage bonus (weapon enhancement), damage resistance bonus (armor enhancement), and a shield capacity increase (shield enhancement).
    • Medical/Shield/Turret/Mortar Fabrications - Ideally, Mortar and Turret Fabrication duty officers would have a chance per shot to fire twice. For example, every mortar volley could have a percent chance to fire a second mortar volley.
      Medical and Shield healing fabrication duty officers from the dominion pack are much easier, they add a 50% chance to spawn a Medical Generator I when creating a Shield Generator and a 50% chance to spawn a Shield Generator I when spawning a Medical Generator. Thus, the effects are just copied over, using Medical Generator Field has a 50% chance to apply the Shield Generator I effects in addition to the Medial Generator effects. The same goes for Shield Generator Field.
    • Transphasic Bomb - would be working a bit different compared to right before Legacy of Romulus. Right now, Transphasic bomb is a massive spike attack, yet it has a 30 second cooldown in order to compensate for the fact that it is easily destroyed/detected. A stealth bonus to the bomb would make sense with the "transphasic" nature and it would make it much harder to detect or destroy. The damage on the bomb would need to be adjusted, but it would make the ability viable again.
    • Draw Fire - is a 16 second buff that forces all NPCs in range to attack the player. There needs to be a substantial reason for the player to use such an ability when it could mean their instant death. The player needs four procs to get the full bonus out of the ability, but each stack only lasts 5 seconds. The Tactical officer would need to be under considerable weapon fire to achieve and maintain the full damage bonus. In PvP, simply ceasing fire on the Tactical officer for a few seconds will shut down their ability to deal increased damage.
    • Sweeping Strikes - is in bad shape right now, the two second animation lock puts the player using the ability at a considerably high risk. It needs some form of redesign to make it competitive with other kit abilities.
    • Suppressing Fire - is capable of stacking from multiple sources right now, which makes it possible to reduce a target's damage output to the point where it's close to zero. The only reasonable cleanse is Battle Strategies, but it has a 45 second downtime and does nothing to help non-tactical officers. Additionally, weapons with multiple shots per fire cycle apply the debuff multiple times, which makes it difficult for targeted players to move while under Suppression Fire effects.
      To compensate for the lack of stacking, a damage resistance debuff would prevent this ability from losing effectiveness in PvE or PvP. It wouldn't be overpowered though, even with skill points in Advanced Tactics bringing it up to -22.5% All Damage Resistance Rating (9 ranks typically gives +50% effectiveness). Science Officers and Engineers have multiple buffs increasing their Damage Resistance Rating. Tactical Officers are capable of clearing Suppressing Fire and applying their own copies of Suppressing Fire. Those not using the Dyson Tier III offense trait are using the defensive trait, which grants +0-75 all damage resistance rating, which balances itself out with the offensive trait.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited January 2014
    [*]Sweeping Strikes (All versions): Convert into an area of effect melee attack with a 10-20 second cooldown.
    • Sweeping Strikes - is in bad shape right now, the two second animation lock puts the player using the ability at a considerably high risk. It needs some form of redesign to make it competitive with other kit abilities.

    My close combat spec'd kit Un-buffed damage shown

    I don't see that Sweeping strikes is in bad shape right now, closing to melee range is always a hi-risk endeavor vs standing off and shooting at them. I can still use the omega carbine, a pulsewave, a split-beam, sniper rifle for stand-off attacks if I choose to do so, there is no way I can see being able to reduce the "Animation Lock" since the attack is an animated attack, adding a "10-20sec cd" to the ability is just a nerf as it is meant to be used same as any other standard melee attack not:

    "attack - wait 10secs - attack - wait 10secs - attack".

    Just my thoughts on this particular ability.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    kapla1755 wrote: »
    My close combat spec'd kit Un-buffed damage shown

    I don't see that Sweeping strikes is in bad shape right now, closing to melee range is always a hi-risk endeavor vs standing off and shooting at them. I can still use the omega carbine, a pulsewave, a split-beam, sniper rifle for stand-off attacks if I choose to do so, there is no way I can see being able to reduce the "Animation Lock" since the attack is an animated attack, adding a "10-20sec cd" to the ability is just a nerf as it is meant to be used same as any other standard melee attack not:

    "attack - wait 10secs - attack - wait 10secs - attack".

    Just my thoughts on this particular ability.

    In my opinion, Sweeping Strikes needs to be redesigned. The biggest problem with Sweeping Strikes is animation lock, it disables the player's ability to use another ability for a full second and the ability to move for two seconds. It would be nice if melee were given a second look, it certainly has a lot of potential with a bit of adjustment in mechanics on Cryptic's end. Especially unarmed combat, non-sword melee weapons, and Sweeping Strikes.

    Anyone attempting melee in PvP will die very quickly, many players carry a pulsewave assault as a secondary weapon. All a ranged weapon player needs to do to counter a Sweeping Strike/non-sword/punch/rifle butt is sidestep, run/jump, and archwave. Lunge and Swords (to a degree) are viable in PvP because they are guaranteed to hit when used, mainly due to the "close and attack" feature. Not to mention they have a chance to knock over the target. If Sweeping Strikes is ever to become viable, it needs to have the same guaranteed strike function as lunge or sword strike. One way to do that is to change Sweeping Strikes into an area of effect "close and attack" ability with a short cooldown.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • martakurillmartakurill Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Am I the only one who really, really hates swapping kits? I mean changing kits usually requires swapping all my doffs, which is tedious and time consuming. Also, if I really want to be effective, I also should probably respec or use some sub optimal "universal spread." All of this is just too much, so I don't swap kits, and likely never will. :rolleyes:

    I would much rather see us choose 5 or so powers as we level, and leave it at that.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I find it curious how ppl think Sweeping strikes or transphasic bomb need a buff, as they are very powerful in PvE.
    PvP might be different, but then again, how many ppl play pvp, and how many play pve? If buffing a weapon for pvp while (whats suggested with those two abilities) nerfing them for pve, I would vote for leaving them alone and as they are.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Am I the only one who really, really hates swapping kits? I mean changing kits usually requires swapping all my doffs, which is tedious and time consuming. Also, if I really want to be effective, I also should probably respec or use some sub optimal "universal spread." All of this is just too much, so I don't swap kits, and likely never will. :rolleyes:

    I would much rather see us choose 5 or so powers as we level, and leave it at that.

    It's not difficult to spec into multiple kits via a balanced use of skill points. Putting more than 6 points in a skill is a massive waste, especially on ground. Lt. level abilities (Medic, Weapons Proficiency, Demolitions) aren't bad at 9 ranks, but the bonuses are quite small.

    I would hate so see players tied to a specific kit, it would be like locking a player into a specific bridge officer layout. Not only would players hate that, it would kill build variance. Kit abilities are pieces of equipment, they should be easy to change out as the situation changes. Switching kits should be no different than switching weapons, armor, or shields.
    woodwhity wrote: »
    I find it curious how ppl think Sweeping strikes or transphasic bomb need a buff, as they are very powerful in PvE.
    PvP might be different, but then again, how many ppl play pvp, and how many play pve? If buffing a weapon for pvp while (whats suggested with those two abilities) nerfing them for pve, I would vote for leaving them alone and as they are.

    Transphasic Bomb actually needs a bit of a change. The ability is capable of one hit killing players within the blast radius, it has a very short cooldown, and destroying the bomb detonates it and resets the cooldown to 0. It is also possible to deploy transphasic bomb through cover shields, which eliminates the risk of taking damage during the animation lockout period. However, the removal of the auto-detonate significantly decreases the performance of the ability. Engineers need to constantly monitor the bomb in order to determine optimal detonation time. Which is why I had suggested adding a stealth bonus, auto-detonate feature, and a quicker deployment animation. A cooldown of 30 seconds is too short for the Transphasic Bomb, it has one hit kill potential, 60 seconds would be ideal. There are only two other abilities with one hit kill potential; Ambush (60 second cooldown) and Chroniton Mine Barrier (22 second cooldown). Though Chroniton Mine Barrier may just be bugged, the mines appear to be dealing far more damage than listed on the tooltip.

    I explained my opinion on Sweeping Strikes two posts up. Personally, I think the animation lock and the lack of a "close and attack" feature brings the ability down significantly.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • chi1701dchi1701d Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It's not difficult to spec into multiple kits via a balanced use of skill points. Putting more than 6 points in a skill is a massive waste, especially on ground. Lt. level abilities (Medic, Weapons Proficiency, Demolitions) aren't bad at 9 ranks, but the bonuses are quite small.

    I would hate so see players tied to a specific kit, it would be like locking a player into a specific bridge officer layout. Not only would players hate that, it would kill build variance. Kit abilities are pieces of equipment, they should be easy to change out as the situation changes. Switching kits should be no different than switching weapons, armor, or shields.



    Transphasic Bomb actually needs a bit of a change. The ability is capable of one hit killing players within the blast radius, it has a very short cooldown, and destroying the bomb detonates it and resets the cooldown to 0. It is also possible to deploy transphasic bomb through cover shields, which eliminates the risk of taking damage during the animation lockout period. However, the removal of the auto-detonate significantly decreases the performance of the ability. Engineers need to constantly monitor the bomb in order to determine optimal detonation time. Which is why I had suggested adding a stealth bonus, auto-detonate feature, and a quicker deployment animation. A cooldown of 30 seconds is too short for the Transphasic Bomb, it has one hit kill potential, 60 seconds would be ideal. There are only two other abilities with one hit kill potential; Ambush (60 second cooldown) and Chroniton Mine Barrier (22 second cooldown). Though Chroniton Mine Barrier may just be bugged, the mines appear to be dealing far more damage than listed on the tooltip.

    I explained my opinion on Sweeping Strikes two posts up. Personally, I think the animation lock and the lack of a "close and attack" feature brings the ability down significantly.

    Transphasic bomb is avoidable as well as being target-able and destructible. Making it a 60sec cooldown would be a nerf to pve.
  • tragamitestragamites Member Posts: 424 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    chi1701d wrote: »
    Transphasic bomb is avoidable as well as being target-able and destructible. Making it a 60sec cooldown would be a nerf to pve.

    The bomb is not targetable or destructable by enemies. It is a plant and pray device. You place it hoping someone runs up on it and you hit them when you detonate it. It is the sane with mines but you have a larger spread and they auto detonate once someone gets close enough.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • godo3godo3 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    In my opinion, Sweeping Strikes needs to be redesigned. The biggest problem with Sweeping Strikes is animation lock, it disables the player's ability to use another ability for a full second and the ability to move for two seconds. It would be nice if melee were given a second look, it certainly has a lot of potential with a bit of adjustment in mechanics on Cryptic's end. Especially unarmed combat, non-sword melee weapons, and Sweeping Strikes.

    Anyone attempting melee in PvP will die very quickly, many players carry a pulsewave assault as a secondary weapon. All a ranged weapon player needs to do to counter a Sweeping Strike/non-sword/punch/rifle butt is sidestep, run/jump, and archwave. Lunge and Swords (to a degree) are viable in PvP because they are guaranteed to hit when used, mainly due to the "close and attack" feature. Not to mention they have a chance to knock over the target. If Sweeping Strikes is ever to become viable, it needs to have the same guaranteed strike function as lunge or sword strike. One way to do that is to change Sweeping Strikes into an area of effect "close and attack" ability with a short cooldown.


    I agree with you that there is indeed an animation lock that accounts for part of the reason for sweeping strikes not being used in PVP; however, your fix would completely destroy this skill further. By transforming it into an aoe with a short cooldown, you've basically made it into a grenade power with also a very short range and plus the original animation lock, which is not something I look forward to bringing into any battle, let alone a pvp match. On top of that, this would make no sense as it is a melee power. There is no reason why I can swing my bat'leth a hundred times, smash it into the face of my enemy multiple times all within a short time frame, and yet to do an AOE uppercut, I have to wait 20 seconds? What, did my arms suddenly over-heat?
    ______

    As a frequent user of this skill and also a maximized player for melee, I have had tons and tons of experience with this skill (if you don't believe me; try asking around for a player named "ohmion"). In my view, the real main problem with Sweeping Strikes is the following:

    1. No Auto-lunge at target like the sword or other melee weapon has
    2. Opponents can easily run/ even slowly walk out of range of the power
    3. Using this power can actually Over- expose (expose the user/ owner easier)

    To combat/ fix these problems is indeed no easy task, because you have to find the correct balance of fun, logical- "realism mechanics" of gameplay, and also what is something that most people would prefer, what would make them use it more often, etc.
    ______

    To this end, I propose the following changes to the sweeping strikes skill:

    1. On hit of an enemy player, adds a debuff that decreases move speed and also lowers resistance (does not stack)
    2. On use (does not have to hit) Gives a buff to the owner that prevents getting exposed for a few seconds (cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds or so)
    3. On each successful and consecutive hit, increases damage and/ or resistance penetration of the skill. (stacks 3(?) times)
    (maybe 4). Add a possible in-game trait that increases the range of the skill to (idk; how about...) 20 meters, but lowers the damage and manifests it as psychological damage ( adds a ghostly aura overlay over the character)


    As for kits in general, full custom kits are the way to go. That's all I have to say, haha. Thanks.
  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    godo3 wrote: »
    As for kits in general, full custom kits are the way to go. That's all I have to say, haha. Thanks.
    Only after my death pls. Total nonsense. Kits, as they are, are perfectly balanced and are part of the core gameplay. Changing it would break it. Knowing specific kit also helps to predict enemy player strategy.

    Also, Sweeping strikes ought to stay as they are. Melee in combat with guns is ridiculous.
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    In-game handle @Janetza
  • martakurillmartakurill Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It's not difficult to spec into multiple kits via a balanced use of skill points. Putting more than 6 points in a skill is a massive waste, especially on ground. Lt. level abilities (Medic, Weapons Proficiency, Demolitions) aren't bad at 9 ranks, but the bonuses are quite small.

    I would hate so see players tied to a specific kit, it would be like locking a player into a specific bridge officer layout. Not only would players hate that, it would kill build variance. Kit abilities are pieces of equipment, they should be easy to change out as the situation changes. Switching kits should be no different than switching weapons, armor, or shields.

    I have to admit, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. After reading your post, I went and tried a different ground spread that would let me use pretty much any kit I wanted with equal effectiveness (just involved dropping combat armor skill from 6 to 3). I lost very little overall, but gained a lot of versatility. So you know, swapping kits isn't that bad. Thank you for getting me to try something new!


    HOWEVER, I still would like the ability to swap pre-set doff layouts easily, both in space and on the ground. That would make things much more player friendly.
  • kadamskadams Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    skollulfr wrote: »
    x mines
    relies on enemy being dumb enough to run over them. needs a way to deploy at range
    if invisible, very cheap

    What? Chroniton Mine Barrier is *the* best engineering ground ability in the game - max Demolitions, stroll through a group of mobs, tossing mines as you go, and then, guess what - MINES EXPLODE, EVERYTHING DIES. Or, ambush some enemies around a corner, drop mines, run. And guess what? MINES EXPLODE, EVERYTHING DIES.
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