Idea's and Revenue for STO

uhmari · June 2013

First of before i start, Please note that these are parts of idea's created
by our player-development group to better STO.
We want to see more income for the game so we can get more coders to
improve patching speed, fix bugs etc. If you are interested in joining us
to create new innovative idea's Let me know (via in game perf).

Mechanical
Foundry will no longer allow access to replicator systems.
Foundry will now have a 12 hour cool down on it, based on 1 single Mission (Choose carefully).
After you complete this mission, No other drops will be granted for that lock out period.
This encourages the player to buy more bag space, while killing game inflation
that comes from the farming foundry missions.

Fleet

1500 Zen To Start a Fleet (No longer requires 5 players) (150 People Cap)
500 Zen to Expand Fleet size (100 Players per use, up to 500).
100 Zen to Instantly Finish Star-base Project Build Timer (Helps Speed star-base Building)
10 Zen to trans-warp to Star-base, Use Exchange, Mail or Other subsystems of a star-base that does not have access to that basic feature (per use). Free after you gain the needed star-base upgrades.
5000 Zen to Place fleets star-base in open universe, To be accessed by the public.
500 Zen to Upkeep the star-base in open universe per month must be met.

All fleets now have an internal upkeep based on population. This upkeep has Four levels

0-150 Players (Low) 5,000 Dilithium Per Person
150-250 Players (Medium) 10,000 Dilithium per Person
250-350 Players (High) 15,000 Dilithium per Person
350-500 Players (Very High) 20,000 Dilithium per a person

This means a fleet at 500 players must pay 10,000,000 (83,000 Zen at the time of this post) Dilithium a month to Upkeep their fleet.

This serves to be a mechanic to prevent the top (fleets) from
becoming to rich because they sit around with nothing to pay, It prevents lower (population)
fleets from being used as banks, and it increases game income. Upkeep Mechanic
also Causes income for the game, and highly prevents "invite" spam to fleets. In essence
this will help players be more careful about who they recruit.

Fleets Sectors can now Buy a Dilithium Mine. The Production Value Is based on
Fleet Population. Fleet members do tasks here to increase the production rate of
the Mine itself. After meeting max requirement for each Level, the mine becomes
up gradable for a zen cost.

All Mines cost 1500 Zen to Start

Small:
Generates (375,000 refined ore a month)
Requires 10 Missions per a day to level up
Player Mining here generates up to 1,500 Dilithium (Refined) a day (Best Score)
5 Mining Nodes (places to mine)
Upgrade Amount: 1000 Zen

Medium
(1,250,000 refined ore a month)
Requires 30 Missions per a day to level up
Mine Must be Running for minimum of 1 month
Player Mining here generates up to 3,500 Dilithium (Refined) a day
7 Mining Nodes (places to mine)
Upgrade Amount: 2500 Zen

Large
(2,625,000 refined ore a month)
Requires 50 Missions per a day to level up
Mine Must be Running for minimum of 2 months
Player Mining here generates up to 5,500 Dilithium (Refined) a day
10 Mining Nodes (places to mine) 1 High Yield
Upgrade Amount: 5000 Zen

Very Large
(5,000,000 refined ore a month)
Requires 100 Missions per a day to level up
Mine Must be Running for minimum of 3 months
Player Mining here generates up to 7,500 Dilithium (Refined) a day
15 Mining Nodes (places to mine) 3 High Yield
Upgrade Amount: 10000 Zen

All of these take place in a minute, much like the start of the breen missions
(in that sort of mine) Graphically speaking

All fleet Projects are as follows

10,000,(Tier 1)
25,000,(Tier 2)
35,000,(Tier 3)
45,000,(Tier 4)
55,000 (Tier 5)

Special Projects (Shipyards etc) are 85,000 (All tiers)
Special Projects (Upgrades) are 125,000 (All tiers)

Gold Members

Gold member benefits will not longer be granted to players who stopped
paying for gold membership. All previous benefits will be removed (Except Character Expansion). This encourages Them to pay the monthly subscription.

Gold members now gain access to 1 Free Fleet Ship, Of any level. this
ship can be turned in at a special vendor at any time. Only grants
access to one fleet ship at a time.

Gold members now gain access to special Mission vendors in fleet star-base
that grant 1500 refined dilithium per a quest. None gold members only
gain 500. Both gain 50 Marks, and 100 Star-base Tier Exp.

I hope this mechanic is added and pisses off those cheap idiots that make people
pay 10 million to gain access to fleets. I know one thing, Added or not, when we
reach tier 5 shipyard, All invites will be free. I'm going to kill your income one way
or the other.

New Addition

In other games, they play with the Zen Buy/sell Amount.

what they do is they give you enough zen to have left over to almost buy something,
this encourages the person to buy another 5$ even on the spot, or shortly (a day or two) After.

So for example,

you would bump 500 Zen to 650, So that you have to buy another 100, to use a 250 item.
this would encourage another 5$ to be spent.

So it would be like

650
1150
2150
3150
4150
5140

rlak47 · June 2013

I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree! :eek:

This isn't (shouldn't be) a pay to win game, and by having starbase projects and other stuff being a result of investing time into the game, this means that everyone can play, regardless of their real world financial status and everyone is rewarded equally for how much work they put in.

That's really fair (probably a bit Communist, but still very fair at it's core). Isn't equal opportunities what Star Trek is all about?

Also, I'd like to think that I'm reasonably well off, and even I think Zen is expensive....

uhmari · June 2013

This wouldent make the game pay to win.

in my view, Paying should only be because you are motivated for

Vanity (looks)
convenience (Your lazy, we know it)

It should never be

Forced that if you dont get it, you will not be able to do xyz

(Like respec tokens) for example.

I also think that gold members should get so many Conveienent benefits, they
cant resist to subscript

stirling191 · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

It should never be

Forced that if you dont get it, you will not be able to do xyz

And yet, what you're proposing would do exactly that. Charging cash for starting a fleet? Forcing an upkeep mechanic down peoples' throats? Charge zen for simply playing the game?

Aspects of these idea were regarded as completely ridiculous before. That hasn't changed one bit.

uhmari wrote: »

I hope this mechanic is added and pisses off those cheap idiots that make people
pay 10 million to gain access to fleets. I know one thing, Added or not, when we
reach tier 5 shipyard, All invites will be free. I'm going to kill your income one way
or the other.

And now we're back to the heart of your issue: you're still pissed that some T5 fleet turned you down.

On a completely unrelated note, I'd love to see any kind of proof this "we" you keep referring to is anything more than a deluded attempt to give yourself a shred of credibility. But I digress...

kex86 · June 2013

These ideas are completely unnecessary, and give advantage only for players who pays for ZENs. Its a pure disadvantage for all others.

I have an useful opinion to the game devs to give advantage to everyone:

Give 1 free retrain token to every character.

I tell my opinion why we need this:
A newb player cant build a completely successfull characters for the first times, like me they put many ponints to things what is useless for their class without any experience or knowledge. And if i want a useable character i need to buy my first retrain token immediately when i achieve my first 500 hard earned ZENs (terms of the dil/zen price and daily refine limit, it tooks like a week or 1,5 week to gather the ZEN)

mouerte · June 2013

This is bad bad idea :eek: it will just make ppl stop playing the game.
It is a F2P game and free to pay I have a LTS and spend Zen
but it's my choice.

blackfire3320 · June 2013

This wouldn't keep people from playing the game or cause the to stop playing the game. What it will do is cause players to become more invested in their chosen fleet that they join, and cause fleets to be more selective in who they let join.

Now instead of accepting anyone who wants to join, mostly just because they want a Teir 5 fleet vessel or whatever, they're start screening for people who are actually willing to put forth the effort to make their fleet the best fleet out there.

That's why he included a dilithium mechanic that can be used to cover upkeep costs and other such portions of the mentioned fleet mechanics, so that as long as the players within the fleet do the work needed, which might, heaven forbid, take 20 mins out of their gaming experience if everyone works on it, will allow them to keep improving or just keep the starbase running without having to pay any zen.

Also, this will keep people from randomly making fleet for no reason, or making a fleet and then abandoning it. Now there will be more thought and caution in making a fleet and people will make sure that if they're willing to put forth this zen to make the fleet, that the people in it will do their share to keep it running.

The only reason you don't like it is because this would mean the death of all of the fleets that use their tier 5 fleets as a sort of whorehouse, and that you would actually have to do work to stay in your fleet and or get access to what you want, which btw, if you joined a new fleet as the system is now, guess what, you would have to work to even harder than what this system would have you do to achieve Tiers.

bluegeek · June 2013

I'll put in my two cents: No.

It's kind of funny how people think they can convince Cryptic to implement what they want by describing it as a way for Cryptic to make more money.

And then there are other people who accuse Cryptic of going for greedy cash-grabs ... of which the fleet system is already accused of being.

Let Cryptic worry about how to generate revenue. They correctly deduce that they can make more money by attracting more players to play and giving them an incentive to keep playing.

This proposed scheme only rewards people who have money to burn and does nothing to either attract or retain players.

khayuung · June 2013

This thread's defenders are all 1-5 post heroes.

I suspect self-epeen stroking.

bluegeek · June 2013

blackfire3320 wrote: »

The only reason you don't like it is because this would mean the death of all of the fleets that use their tier 5 fleets as a sort of whorehouse, and that you would actually have to do work to stay in your fleet and or get access to what you want, which btw, if you joined a new fleet as the system is now, guess what, you would have to work to even harder than what this system would have you do to achieve Tiers.

What it would do is to completely kill the entire fleet advancement system, if not fleets themselves. Upkeep costs, especially fueled by voluntary contributions, are a bad idea.

If anything, it would encourage fleets to grow as big as they can possibly get and kick out anybody who isn't actively contributing.

It wouldn't prevent Tier 5 megafleets from existing.

There would be far less incentive to try to advance your fleet, since you could effectively lose all of the benefits unless you met the upkeep costs.

And paying Zen to accelerate fleet advancement would also be a no-win situation: You could end up with a Tier 5 starbase and lose the benefit of it when you ran out of Dilithium/cash.

My small fleet would certainly go under with this system, as would a lot of other small fleets.

uhmari · June 2013

Bluegeek,

Im going to address this as directly, and most respectfully as i can..
Please pardon my blunt replies

I'll put in my two cents: No.

Why? And "You just want what you want" is not a valid answer.

It's kind of funny how people think they can convince Cryptic to implement what they want by describing it as a way for Cryptic to make more money.

I am offering ways for the game to make money on the principle that if it does, it will (hopefully) Hire more coders, which will fix the TRIBBLE in the game that has been here for YEARS. this system is NOT WORKING.

And then there are other people who accuse Cryptic of going for greedy cash-grabs ... of which the fleet system is already accused of being.

Probably because its true. I have to admit, ad a dev for two others games, and a Key tester for another (one might i add that creates 80% of the games revisions) Have even considered this. Granted, it may not me true, but im willing to bet it is on account
of the massive prices.

Lets assume its not, however on the flip side. and the system is not really generating money when it comes to Star-bases. Why not revise it to make it make money, and work better? the truth is

lots of people complain about leveling time
lots of people complain about resource cost
lots of people are using others to make massive amounts of EC via their Star-base
Which is leading to contribution of inflation.
Most importantly, The fleet star base serves no purpose other then to
store Npc Vendors.

These are good merrits to start investigating at the very least minor alterations.

Let Cryptic worry about how to generate revenue. They correctly deduce that they can make more money by attracting more players to play and giving them an incentive to keep playing.

And wait another 3 years for a ROL Equivalent patch.

This proposed scheme only rewards people who have money to burn and does nothing to either attract or retain players.

Actually it does not.

The mining system would generate dilithium to the point where it can pay for
star-base upgrades (would need to add a mechanic for this, For example
under contribute for the dilithium only box, you'd Add "Storage" or something
where you can donate from the mining storage for star-base projects.

Its a one time fee, that can be saved up for. We have ever been talking on ts
about the idea of a fleet-related Zen deposit. So that the leaders can use it for
the fleet's needs. Players could take their dilithium and convert it for the mining
purpose, There is a possible and easy solution. You just need to be open
minded and so no easy to jump "NO!" with out a valid reason

uhmari · June 2013

It wouldn't prevent Tier 5 megafleets from existing.

Now you are catching on...

What you need to understand is the mining system can be used to upgrade other things.

The income is guaranteed just not its value.

What you would do is make the quests equal a %, and give each
size (small, medium etc) a value (Posted in OP).

Lets take mines for example, that give 375,000 Dilithium.

10 out of 10 misisons = 100% of that at the end of the month
9/10 of that is 90%
8/10 is 80%

And so on. This would then deposited in a "storage"

Now the star-base intregration comes in.

Under all Dilithium parts in the star base (active Projects where you contribute) (including the upkeep tab to pay the monthly rate)
you would allow that stored Dilithium to be used to pay for any star-base project.

under the "Contribute" button is a "Storage" you would then just click that
and donate like you do contribute button. Simple mechanic.

blackfire3320 · June 2013

bluegeek wrote: »

This proposed scheme only rewards people who have money to burn and does nothing to either attract or retain players.

Not true. Granted that the proposed system would have you pay zen to make a fleet, but just because it would now cost zen doesn't mean people would pay money. With the Zen to Dilithuim exchange as long as you work hard you can make a fleet for free.

Now, as for rewarding the players that burn money, the only way it rewards them it by allowing them to make a tier 5 fleet faster. But it also rewards other players because they can all contribute to this to help build their fleets starbase faster if they choose. However, the point your missing there is that again, with the Dilithuim/Zen exchange, even if you are a strictly free to play player, you can still help out with your fleet and get the same rewards, without ever having to pay cash if you choose to do so or are unable to do so.

Now as far as attract players or retaining players, I can almost guarantee it will work. If you don't believe me, go Google World of Ranks or any game similar to it that have a similar system and are currently making millions off of it. This system works, and it works stupid well, so don't say that it does nothing, because it does and we've all seen it in one form or another.

And then there are other people who accuse Cryptic of going for greedy cash-grabs ... of which the fleet system is already accused of being.

The fleet current system is exactly that. There are fleets that are making billions of EC a day by doing absolutely nothing besides being a Tier 5 Fleet and existing for the sole purpose of charging people EC to join their fleet to buy their Tier 5 ships, lazy people who have no interest in staying in the fleet or actively contributing to the fleet that are staying in outside of their trip to the local Tier 5 Fleet to get your ships.

IN FACT the current system rewards players with money to burn even more that the proposed system. I wonder how many players are out there currently who made a fleet, then used cash to basically insta build their fleet to 5, because besides the resources gained from scanning, everything else can be gained by buying it with cash, and then use it to make billions of EC, completely upsetting the game economy and inflating the prices of everything on the exchange to such a high price that only players who have done something like that can even hope to buy some of the better items on the exchange.

uhmari · June 2013

What it would do is to completely kill the entire fleet advancement system, if not fleets themselves. Upkeep costs, especially fueled by voluntary contributions, are a bad idea.

Im curious to know two things about this part, But Fleet advancement do you mean
going from tier 1 to tier 5?

If this is the case your are vastly mistaken, you are looking at a possible way to upgrade the starbases with a free large source of dilithium. imagine you are tier
1 and get 375,000 Dilithium, how many projects would that help????

If anything, it would encourage fleets to grow as big as they can possibly get and kick out anybody who isn't actively contributing.

Because paying 4 days of dilithium mining a month is hard first of all?
Second, growing to 500 will cost you more, then having a smaller fleet.
This actually Clearly discouraging large fleets from existing (as it was stated it
destroys "SPAM" invites, and causes fleets to be more about value.

Clans/fleets etc (what ever you call them are the foundational point of a game.
Much like a house is to a society. If you have this system working well, the games
community will thrive, That is the single and only factor to people "Saying in a game"

It wouldn't prevent Tier 5 megafleets from existing.

Yes Excatly..

There would be far less incentive to try to advance your fleet, since you could effectively lose all of the benefits unless you met the upkeep costs.

Advance it with quality, not spam

And paying Zen to accelerate fleet advancement would also be a no-win situation: You could end up with a Tier 5 starbase and lose the benefit of it when you ran out of Dilithium/cash.

What benefit?

My small fleet would certainly go under with this system, as would a lot of other small fleets.

Your fleet, Of less then 150 would pay very little. 1 days worth of dilithium a month
is that to much to ask for, As a counter point to massively fueling a star-base
millions of dilithium as you level???

stirling191 · June 2013

The fact that either of you (if in fact there are two different people and not the same person just parroting himself to try and create some manner of credibility) think that charging ridiculous amounts of Zen to simply maintain a fleet, let alone use or advance said fleet, will magically increase fleet numbers is completely absurd.

How does saddling fleets with additional resource sinks, and then directly charging them for a mechanic that only partially mitigates said sinks, improve fleet progression?

How does forcing fleet members into the salt mines (literally) to try and keep their head above water from the new charges you're piling on improve anything?

At best you'd see a massive dissolving of fleets. At worst, you'd see droves of people leaving the game (and rightly so) because they disapprove of being even more nickeled and dimed for being in a fleet.

uhmari · June 2013

When it says
Raise fleet cap?

No one said magical Numbers.

The Dilithium is just to encourage spending, as well
as add a new system that will help leveling fleets faster
to encourage more advancement for them

How does saddling fleets with additional resource sinks, and then directly charging them for a mechanic that only partially mitigates said sinks, improve fleet progression?

By players all being "contributors" to the equation rather then 10-20 people doing it, Improves the fleet
progression rate greatly.

Further its progressed with the dilithium granted to the fleet, to help at the discression of the leader
progress high-dilithium cost projects.

How does forcing fleet members into the salt mines (literally) to try and keep their head above water from the new charges you're piling on improve anything?

Do you not read?
Seriously? Did you not see the part about earning up to 10,000 refined dilithium a day
for doing the mine quests?

At best you'd see a massive dissolving of fleets. At worst, you'd see droves of people leaving the game (and rightly so) because they disapprove of being even more nickeled and dimed for being in a fleet.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

skyranger1414 · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

I am offering ways for the game to make money on the principle that if it does, it will (hopefully) Hire more coders, which will fix the TRIBBLE in the game that has been here for YEARS. this system is NOT WORKING.

You want resources devoted to fixing bugs? Buy PWE stock and form a stockholder block big enough to demand PWE gets in Cryptic's case about it. That's it. I would suggest you buy a few hundred boxes per month but even then that does not guarantee the extra resources would go toward fixing anything.

stirling191 · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

The Dilithium is just to encourage spending, as well
as add a new system that will help leveling fleets faster
to encourage more advancement for them

A mandatory expense encourages nothing. It forces.

But the magnitude of problems your "solution" creates is several times greater than the ones you claim it will fix. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't actually fix said problems, but that's neither here nor there...

Forcing each and every character in a fleet to grind endlessly just to keep the fleet above water helps nobody.

uhmari wrote: »

Further its progressed with the dilithium granted to the fleet, to help at the discression of the leader
progress high-dilithium cost projects.

Considering your entire setup generates far less dilithium than it creates, you've just saddled every single fleet member with a built in sink they fundamentally can't overcome without outside income.

You're effectively creating a situation where a person has to pay to stay at a job. Nobody is going to do that in a game.

uhmari wrote: »

Do you not read?
Seriously? Did you not see the part about earning up to 10,000 refined dilithium a day
for doing the mine quests?

Do you not understand that people don't play STO to work in a mine? This isn't EVE. Players don't load up STO saying "gee, I wish I could spend my free time mining rocks today!".

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

uhmari · June 2013

A mandatory expense encourages nothing. It forces.

But the magnitude of problems your "solution" creates is several times greater than the ones you claim it will fix. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't actually fix said problems, but that's neither here nor there...

Forcing each and every character in a fleet to grind endlessly just to keep the fleet above water helps nobody..

You dont have to buy the mines, Dont you get that?
You have the option of the players donating their amount (1 to 4 days worth of dilithium a month) Its not to much to ask.

You can set the system up so that it warns them and the fleet leader. There is lots of ways to do it (thats to be considered)

but the mines are OPTIONAL

The only required Pay of zen is to "create" The fleet, and to be honest

68,000 fleet sin the game, It needs it.

Considering your entire setup generates far less dilithium than it creates, you've just saddled every single fleet member with a built in sink they fundamentally can't overcome without outside income.

BS.. Straight up. Work for 4 days (tops) and stop being lazy.

Do you not understand that people don't play STO to work in a mine? This isn't EVE. Players don't load up STO saying "gee, I wish I could spend my free time mining rocks today!".

Thats great and they dont have to.

10 quests a day (which is what most fleets will probably have (a small mine) is not a lot.
its 10 people doing 1 quest that takes 2-3 minutes. It can be as simple as actually going out and earn dilithium for themselves.

Its not a hard system to understand, You Benefit personally from earning dilithium to do those quests. You further help the fleet by doing those quests, its a win win situation.

Again, USE YOUR HEAD and THINK

bluegeek · June 2013

1. Thread moved to the Fleet Holdings forum because it seems to be a more appropriate place for it.

2. No more flaming and trolling. I will be forced to end this thread if it continues.

3.

Why? And "You just want what you want" is not a valid answer.

Actually, no. I don't have to justify my personal opinion, which I am free to share. It remains "No" until I am convinced otherwise.

So far I am convinced that the system being talking about could be harmful to my very small fleet and I am skeptical that I could afford the upkeep. So, my opinion is still "no".

I haven't seen - or missed seeing - an explanation of what happens when you can't meet the upkeep costs. Ease my mind on that score and I might be swayed to accept at least parts of this idea.

bluegeek · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

10 quests a day (which is what most fleets will probably have (a small mine) is not a lot.

its 10 people doing 1 quest that takes 2-3 minutes. It can be as simple as actually going out and earn dilithium for themselves.

I disagree.

Some nights I have barely enough time just to log in and cycle DOFF assignments. Maybe I get in and play one or two missions.

This game has enough grind in it and enough time that has to be spent on logistics like banking and travel that, in my opinion, it doesn't need more.

uhmari · June 2013

See I find that position Completely Reasonable, Bluegeek.

Also, no one is trolling, just annoyed at people that post "its a terrible idea" Before its
even fully read and understood.

Please Return this thread to its original forum, There are things in this post not regarding fleets
it belongs on the mechanic forums, not fleet holdings.

stirling191 · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

You dont have to buy the mines, Dont you get that?
You have the option of the players donating their amount (1 to 4 days worth of dilithium a month) Its not to much to ask.

The mine may be optional, but the upkeep fees aren't.

Players are already saddled with more than enough dilithium costs. When faced with the choice of giving up a not-insubstantial part of their income for zero gain, many are simply going to walk away from the the cost.

uhmari wrote: »

The only required Pay of zen is to "create" The fleet, and to be honest

68,000 fleet sin the game, It needs it.

If people want to start their own shiny new fleet, that's their business. It isn't yours to try and regulate it because you think there are too many fleets.

uhmari wrote: »

BS.. Straight up. Work for 4 days (tops) and stop being lazy.

A "size one" fleet would require 750,000 dilithium per month in upkeep. The corresponding mine generates half that (375000), and that's assuming that a fleet even opts to spend personal zen on a fleet holding.

Every other size and mine pairing keeps a similar 50% unpaid cost ratio.

Additionally, players are not going to grind for no other reason than to keep their fleet's head above water. They're going to leave. STO is already considered a job by many, actively turning it into one will improve nothing.

uhmari wrote: »

Thats great and they dont have to.

10 quests a day (which is what most fleets will probably have (a small mine) is not a lot.
its 10 people doing 1 quest that takes 2-3 minutes. It can be as simple as actually going out and earn dilithium for themselves.

Its not a hard system to understand, You Benefit personally from earning dilithium to do those quests. You further help the fleet by doing those quests, its a win win situation.

Again, USE YOUR HEAD and THINK

Except of course all of what you make ends up having to go back to the fleet, or else the fleet dies. So not only are you out time, but also dilithium (since the time it takes a player to do your mining to keep the fleet from exploding they would have normally spent doing something else), loot, EC and marks.

I'll put this as bluntly as I can: your suggestions do nothing but increase the burden on the playerbase with no accompanying gain. If Cryptic had suggested anything even remotely like what you've outlined, there would be a riot the likes of which this game has never seen (and that comes from someone who was a part of Doff-gate, STF-gate, the Fleet Mark catastrophe *and* the emblem conversion). There is zero benefit to anyone (including Cryptic given the number of players they would lose) in these ideas.

johnny111971 · June 2013

blackfire3320 wrote: »

The fleet current system is exactly that. There are fleets that are making billions of EC a day by doing absolutely nothing besides being a Tier 5 Fleet and existing for the sole purpose of charging people EC to join their fleet to buy their Tier 5 ships, lazy people who have no interest in staying in the fleet or actively contributing to the fleet that are staying in outside of their trip to the local Tier 5 Fleet to get your ships.

While I do not believe it was their SOLE purpose for grinding their way to Tier5, I do agree that this bothers me, trying to get to T5 myself.. its hard to convince people to contribute and wait for a particular items, then they can go to any social zone and buy access to it. ... but there is the market for people that don't want to be part of a fleet, and would prefer to just buy what they need.

I do not agree with the idea of charging Zen for a fleet, or creating purchasable items to speed construction.

While I don't like the practice of "selling" access to their stores and etc... you have to acknowledge that work went into creating that... and it can't just be termed because they are a mega fleet. Something drew these players together into a large community that has the resources to get to T5... maybe some of it was to get to the T5 base... but seriously, the list of fleets already at T5 were mega fleets to start... so it is something else, and they shouldn't be punished for being able to attract and retain that number of players.

I vote NO to any type of zen requirements for a fleet, and any type of maintenance cost to keep one.

rbatalla1977 · June 2013

When I started reading the post, I thought this were ideas to things Cryptic could do to generate money. I think the whole starbase progression system should stay the way it is. I guess the problem with small fleets is the amount of items needed to complete the project vs the ratio per member of fleet has to contribute. The only thing I liked about the OP, would be the option of buying packs of resources from the Z-Store. It would be an option for people with money to spare and no time to grind to contribute. This is something very common in casual gaming, where you can buy resources if you do not want to wait and do the work. But it could be a option to sell stuff in the Z-Store.

trekkietravis · June 2013

A monthly fleet upkeep fee would be the death of fleets in STO

And $10 million dilithium per month as a fee is preposterous!

uhmari · June 2013

Ok so i have done some revisions to the system (mining and Dilithium)
the other team members are away atm, so i had to do this myself, we will review
more for better idea's later and update from there, In the mean time here
are some idea's on resolutions to concerns for this system.

Your nice Little mine ( love to make graphics, visuals are always fun)
http://i82.servimg.com/u/f82/18/05/75/56/mine10.jpg

Shows up as a special projects in the star-base. Costs 50,000 Dilithium to build
a Small Dilithium mine.

After this, upgrades must be bought with zen.

Size Cost
1500 Medium
3500 Large
5000 Very Large

Income

<150 Players (Low) 2000 Per Person
On first Tier Min of 50 People per month Must be Met.
This stops Single Player Banks (which is probably 80% of fleets)
This is the entire purpose (well 75% of it) Of the upkeep system
Min Upkeep cost: 100,000
Max Upkeep cost: 300,000

150-250 Players (Medium) 4000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 600,000
Max Upkeep cost: 1,000,000

250-350 Players (High) 6000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 1,500,000
Max Upkeep cost: 2,100,000

350-500 Players (Very High) 8000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 2,800,000
Max Upkeep cost: 4,000,000

Players will get a Notice via Mail if they don't pay their upkeep
If they log in after its due, they will log in to find themselves in the brig
and will be forced by security to work in the dilithium mines!!!!

Small Mines Will Generate 225,000 (-75,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 500
Max Upkeep cost: 1,500

Medium Mines Will Generate 750,000 (-250,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 1,666
Max Upkeep cost: 5,000

Large Mines Will Generate 1,575,000 (-525,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 2,100
Max Upkeep cost: 5,000

Very Large Mines Will Generate 3,000,000 (-1,000,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 2,000
Max Upkeep cost: 2,857

The Above rates are Min Population and Max Population per the Tier.

Where the profit comes in, Is if a smaller fleet upgrades a mine beyond
its upkeep rate. If this is the case, then they make dilithium. for example
a 150 fleet with Large Mine

Conditions
If fleets do not make their payments on time, they get a 3 dace grace period.
If they do not, they are fined on top of the amount owed. (25,000 Dilithium)
by star-fleet, or the high council.
If this fine is not payed in 30 days, The fleet is disbanded.

Give me feed back on that, and let me know how it go's Cant seem
to focus atm.

johnny111971 · June 2013

Lol... please just stop... the players would never stand for Zen to form a fleet, Zen to expand a fleet... and certainly never a maintenance to upkeep.

Edit: Seriously, you want to charge MONEY to have a fleet, build a fleet, and then if the upkeep is not met the fleet will be disbanded? So we lose everything?

You can tailor and tweak as much as you like... but until it gets down to 0 cost, and 0 upkeep... you'll have a hard time gathering support here.

trekkietravis · June 2013

uhmari wrote: »

Ok so i have done some revisions to the system (mining and Dilithium)
the other team members are away atm, so i had to do this myself, we will review
more for better idea's later and update from there, In the mean time here
are some idea's on resolutions to concerns for this system.

Your nice Little mine ( love to make graphics, visuals are always fun)
http://i82.servimg.com/u/f82/18/05/75/56/mine10.jpg

Shows up as a special projects in the star-base. Costs 50,000 Dilithium to build
a Small Dilithium mine.

After this, upgrades must be bought with zen.

Size Cost
1500 Medium
3500 Large
5000 Very Large

Income

<150 Players (Low) 2000 Per Person
On first Tier Min of 50 People per month Must be Met.
This stops Single Player Banks (which is probably 80% of fleets)
This is the entire purpose (well 75% of it) Of the upkeep system
Min Upkeep cost: 100,000
Max Upkeep cost: 300,000

150-250 Players (Medium) 4000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 600,000
Max Upkeep cost: 1,000,000

250-350 Players (High) 6000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 1,500,000
Max Upkeep cost: 2,100,000

350-500 Players (Very High) 8000 Per Person
Min Upkeep cost: 2,800,000
Max Upkeep cost: 4,000,000

Players will get a Notice via Mail if they don't pay their upkeep
If they log in after its due, they will log in to find themselves in the brig
and will be forced by security to work in the dilithium mines!!!!

Small Mines Will Generate 225,000 (-75,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 500
Max Upkeep cost: 1,500

Medium Mines Will Generate 750,000 (-250,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 1,666
Max Upkeep cost: 5,000

Large Mines Will Generate 1,575,000 (-525,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 2,100
Max Upkeep cost: 5,000

Very Large Mines Will Generate 3,000,000 (-1,000,000)
Min Upkeep cost: 2,000
Max Upkeep cost: 2,857

The Above rates are Min Population and Max Population per the Tier.

Where the profit comes in, Is if a smaller fleet upgrades a mine beyond
its upkeep rate. If this is the case, then they make dilithium. for example
a 150 fleet with Large Mine

Conditions
If fleets do not make their payments on time, they get a 3 dace grace period.
If they do not, they are fined on top of the amount owed. (25,000 Dilithium)
by star-fleet, or the high council.
If this fine is not payed in 30 days, The fleet is disbanded.

Give me feed back on that, and let me know how it go's Cant seem
to focus atm.

No, no, no. No Zen for the fleets and no maintenance fees. I can see the riots now!

johnny111971 · June 2013

Can I ask a question as well?

What is the benefit? From a players perspective to join a fleet and contribute? Or a fleet's incentive to even exist?

uhmari · June 2013

Lol... please just stop... the players would never stand for Zen to form a fleet, Zen to expand a fleet... and certainly never a maintenance to upkeep.

Yes, because by having a zen change, It makes you care, and it makes you
be sure you want a fleet. It also stops every 12 year old from making their own clan.

Edit: Seriously, you want to charge MONEY to have a fleet, build a fleet, and then if the upkeep is not met the fleet will be disbanded? So we lose everything?

You can tailor and tweak as much as you like... but until it gets down to 0 cost, and 0 upkeep... you'll have a hard time gathering support here.

Yes, You should have to upkeep your fleet, It gives people something to do.
It also Prevents Your alts from using fleets for BANKS and not FLEETS

All i hear on these forums is QQ about people who are abusing the system.
7 pages of players QQ about stopping the 10 million charge for joining a fleet
is proof enough of that.

Idea's and Revenue for STO

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