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Wanderer VS Sporpion for a HA veno

morenawolfmorenawolf Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2015 in Venomancer
I'm getting sick and tired to camp for the Dino, expecially because on Archosaur server there's a r9 archer piece of poo who have a lot of fun botting in Derjan's Rest just to troll venos, and I truly want to do my reawkening and start my new life as heavy veno, so I decided to raise a good DD pet as substitute. I'll evolve it to get decent stats and go.

I'm heavily battled between the Wanderer and the Scorpion. According to Ecatomb, they're almost perfectly the opposite of each other: W. have good phys def and low mag def, while S. have nice mag def. W. have lower phys atk but higer attk speed, S. have great phys atk but a little slower, and so on.

As HA my dmg and mag def will be a little low (at the beginning at least) so I need a nice DD solid enough to help me killing my opponents, mostly in open world and low istances because my squad members will be always stronger than any pet in high ones. I would get a nix if I could, but for now I have to work with what I have. I always have my loyal tanks of course, my dear Glacial Walker and Froglin (which is much better than the bears in my humble opinion! I really wonder why nobody use it).

So, which DD do you suggest me to use?
Post edited by morenawolf on
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Raujada - Venomancer
Tempestosa - Stormbringer
Archosaur & Morai server

Comments

  • Alice_Nyan - DreamweaverAlice_Nyan - Dreamweaver Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Get both and see which one you like more. With veno instance, its kind easy level pets. I never had a scorpion, so i can't say which one between them are better =\ And i like bear XD, i used mine for long time.

    About that archer, try expel him until him get stuck XD i do that with annoying bots.
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Scorpion will do more damage if you load it down with bashes and are able to cycle through them (that's a lot of clicking though.) Wanderer will do more damage than the scorpion if you turn off all skills on both. (A misunderstanding many people have is that the wanderer does more damage without skills than with; bashes will increase damage output on both the scorpion and wanderer, but the harder hitting scorpion gets more advantage from the skills.) Neither will compare to the damage output of a nix, let alone a harpy.

    What kind of heavy veno do you intend to be? Mostly fox, or mostly human? And where do you want to use the pets?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • morenawolfmorenawolf Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I've never thought to load a pet with attack skills :O it would be interesting since I will need some extra dmg... but it would let it without defense or aggro skills, so I need to think about it. At this point I would get the Wanderer and give it Tought and something else like Thearthen and Flesh Ream. It's a pity to delete his starting skills but they won't help so much at high lvls.

    Since I've never done this build I'm not 100% sure of what I'll do, but I think I'll mostly go fox to enjoy the phys bonus and the speed of the attacks. Some friends suggested me to make a aps build but it don't sound too much effective to me, I can't even enjoy the Bloodpaint so meh. I'll think about a HA/AA mix anyway, to be more balanced and still be able to deal ranged dmg. I'll probably put 300 points on mag, 40 on dex and everything else on str. With the right stats-gicing gears it should be good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Raujada - Venomancer
    Tempestosa - Stormbringer
    Archosaur & Morai server
  • Keisari - Raging TideKeisari - Raging Tide Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    morenawolf wrote: »
    I've never thought to load a pet with attack skills :O it would be interesting since I will need some extra dmg... but it would let it without defense or aggro skills, so I need to think about it. At this point I would get the Wanderer and give it Tought and something else like Thearthen and Flesh Ream. It's a pity to delete his starting skills but they won't help so much at high lvls.

    Since I've never done this build I'm not 100% sure of what I'll do, but I think I'll mostly go fox to enjoy the phys bonus and the speed of the attacks. Some friends suggested me to make a aps build but it don't sound too much effective to me, I can't even enjoy the Bloodpaint so meh. I'll think about a HA/AA mix anyway, to be more balanced and still be able to deal ranged dmg. I'll probably put 300 points on mag, 40 on dex and everything else on str. With the right stats-gicing gears it should be good.
    Kitty's writing this from PVE-perspective, long text with little sense and loads of off-topic in it 'cause Kitty wrote it at 3am.

    On HA-veno Kitty's using scorpion loaded with Fire, Earth, Metal and Water-attacks, with Wraithslayer and Demon Hunting as mood skills. It does really decent damage when skillspamming(though it's still weak compared to Kitty's own damage) and with those skills Kitty has every element covered for possible bosses who can only be hit with certain elements.

    By the way, your damage won't be low as HA-veno. Far from it.


    Note: When Kitty mentions APS from now on, she means auto-attacking in Fox Form wearing your magic weapon(preferably magic sword).

    In PVE as HA-veno you'll debuff and APS on bosses and use AoE-spells in human form for AoE-situations. That's 'cause as HA-veno your phys. base damage will be about the same as mag. base damage(if you use phys. rings, that ish). Thus as HA-veno you'll end up doing at least double damage by APSing if comparing to spamming skills due to far shorter interval between attacks. While leveling, you'd probably like to use full HA-set for PVs(Kitty used to Befuddling Mist -> Run ->Befuddling ->Rinse->Repeat while PVing).

    In most PVE-situations you'll be fine with full HA-armors if you use decently refined elem. necklace and belt. In PVP having both sets helps a lot if you're against casters at times.

    To give some idea what a HA-veno can do...

    Kitty's current PVE-build: PWcalc

    With her current gears Kitty easily solos any pav in FWS(even water has become boooooring). When Kitty had just T2-pataka instead of her current weapon she was already able to all pavs except water('cause in Water HA-veno spams Befuddling Mist while in other pavs spells are safer by giving more time to escape the explosions).

    If Kitty can go all out DDing(usually happens when there's no r9rr+12 in squad), Kitty's had a tendency to have aggro in many cases 'cause attack power of a barb combined with APS of a semi-geared sin. Sparked, with veno-debuffs and HF, Kitty usually does about 70k+ autoattack crits to bosses. When Kitty reaches 2.00 base APS she'll probably be able to solo mobless Earth(already almost enough damage at 1.67APS).

    And if anyone attempts to remind about "HA-veno's inferior damage compared to AA-veno", Kitty has one thingie to say: sage HA-veno has about the same sparked base mag. attack as demon AA-veno, thanks to sage spark's higher mag. attack boost, 900% vs 700%, equals to 200 magic stat points. Magic-based HA-veno has 160 base mag less than pure AA. Sage AA-veno can do the highest sparked damage, Kitty admits.

    With equal gears(sparked):

    In DPH: sage AA>sage HA(in AA-gears)>demon AA>sage HA(in HA-gears)>demon HA(in AA-gears)>demon HA(in HA-gears).

    In DPS: demon HA(in HA-gears)>sage HA(in HA-gears)>demon AA>sage AA

    Why Kitty mentioned these "sparked"? Because if your DD matters in most squad situations, you'll probably be sparked. And given how short boss battles are these days, you probably won't have time to DD after spark ish dead.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kittysama - Raging Tide in APS-barb disguise, when avatars were bugged. Now posting again as Kittysama.
    Deleted old mains on Feb. 2014, back with every viable build covered, majority of them at or above non-rb 100.b:cute
    The Greatest APS-Panda on RT! 'Cause there's too much food in tables of Imperial palace.b:surrender
    Kitty's current average lvl ~94 b:shocked
  • morenawolfmorenawolf Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Thank you for the info Kitty! Expecially for the effort to write them at 3am b:chuckle the spamming skill thing looks interesting. By the way, could you tell me if its special skill is useful? The aoe def buff I mean. I remember a post from Mayfly (I think?) saying that it don't last enough to be useful, but it still sounds intriguing.

    Your build looks interesting, but it's a pity to not use a full HA g16 and say goodbye to a good def. There's a 2 aps build in the HA/AA sticky guide, but both attack and def looks very low to me, even if that don't count about nuema, primal passives ecc. I think my ultimate goal would be something like this and add mag def with cards. The aps is a little lower but the rest looks good to me. And if I can farm a mag set I would switch with hotkeys when needed. Oh, question about the spark: I tried to use them on the calculator to see the attack difference and I noticed that only the Celestial eruption raise the phys attack o_o the one and two sparks affect only mag one. Is that true in game too? And, second question, do you think the magic sword is the best choice for HA build?
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    Raujada - Venomancer
    Tempestosa - Stormbringer
    Archosaur & Morai server
  • fantasya310fantasya310 Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    morenawolf wrote: »
    Froglin (which is much better than the bears in my humble opinion! I really wonder why nobody use it)

    Thumbs up for the frogling b:laugh
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  • Keisari - Raging TideKeisari - Raging Tide Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    morenawolf wrote: »
    Thank you for the info Kitty! Expecially for the effort to write them at 3am b:chuckle the spamming skill thing looks interesting. By the way, could you tell me if its special skill is useful? The aoe def buff I mean. I remember a post from Mayfly (I think?) saying that it don't last enough to be useful, but it still sounds intriguing.

    Kitty thinks it's semi-useful at least in Delta by saving poor squishies' lives if they take too much aggro. It probably has other uses, too.(Kitty just has a bad tendency to only use pets on bosses mostly)

    Your build looks interesting, but it's a pity to not use a full HA g16 and say goodbye to a good def.

    Kitty's atm farming badges to T3 remaining pieces. When Kitty's totally done with her gears she'll have full T3 HA, full T3 AA and APS-set(will take craploads of inv. space, but Kitty just likes overgearing b:bye ).

    There's a 2 aps build in the HA/AA sticky guide, but both attack and def looks very low to me, even if that don't count about nuema, primal passives ecc. I think my ultimate goal would be something like this and add mag def with cards. The aps is a little lower but the rest looks good to me. And if I can farm a mag set I would switch with hotkeys when needed.

    It's indeed best choice to hotkey your gears as HA-veno. It would be quite difficult to swap from gear set to another in couple secs via inventory.b:surrender

    At least getting used to gear swapping also helps you if you ever choose to play BM too.b:laugh


    Oh, question about the spark: I tried to use them on the calculator to see the attack difference and I noticed that only the Celestial eruption raise the phys attack o_o the one and two sparks affect only mag one. Is that true in game too? And, second question, do you think the magic sword is the best choice for HA build?

    Kitty tested this and all veno sparks give both p. and m. attack boost in-game. Kitty thinks m. sword ish best for HA-veno due to best phys. attack among magic weapons. True, pataka has slightly higher damage range but m. sword's far better attack rate makes m. sword better in Fox Form-DDing(and that's where your best DPS resides).

    Kitty's replies in her usual colour.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kittysama - Raging Tide in APS-barb disguise, when avatars were bugged. Now posting again as Kittysama.
    Deleted old mains on Feb. 2014, back with every viable build covered, majority of them at or above non-rb 100.b:cute
    The Greatest APS-Panda on RT! 'Cause there's too much food in tables of Imperial palace.b:surrender
    Kitty's current average lvl ~94 b:shocked
  • morenawolfmorenawolf Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Got it! Thank you Kitty b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Raujada - Venomancer
    Tempestosa - Stormbringer
    Archosaur & Morai server
  • morenawolfmorenawolf Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    And where do you want to use the pets?

    Aw, I forgot to answer this D: I would use my pets mostly against world mobs. I will surely use them against bosses too, but probably only against world ones and in istances below BH100, since they're too weak to survive and my team mates are so strong that they don't need pet support.

    I'm finally reborn from lvl 101 and I'm growing up as HA. I know it will be harder than just be AA until I reach 300 points of mag, but I'm having too much fun with it XD I'm lvl 47 with Royal Heavy set and reawkening pataka (I will probablu use it until lvl 90 because it have a very nice physical attack despite the low aps, then I'll use Sakyamuni Light and Requiem Blade) and soloing Phoenix Valley is a pure and wild joy <3 I'm still testing the Scorpion, but since I have Speed of the Moon and Summer Sprint I run at 9.9 all time, so it's too slow for now. I'm a lot more happy with my Cuddly Pup so far, it also have better defence because it's lvl 71, and the Scorpion 53.

    I can't really judge the Scorpion until I'll have Speed of the Moon, if it will be too slow even later I'll just get a Wanderer. I really can't stand slow pets.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Raujada - Venomancer
    Tempestosa - Stormbringer
    Archosaur & Morai server
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    A 100 scorpion (pre-expansion, I don't know how the changes in tame levels have changed pet stats) has a speed of 7.1, a 100 wanderer a speed of 7.9, the 101 dino a speed of 8.2. The latter 2 would be able to keep up with a sage veno, with the scorpion not lagging too badly; only the fastest pets would be able to keep up with a demon spamming foxform.

    Among the free pets with high speed: Kowlin (10.5 at 95), ninetailed firefox (9.9 at 100), florafang maneater (9.7 at 101), petali spirit (10.2 at 100), peachyard firefox (10.2 at 99), glacial mistress (10.1 at 100), and glacial maiden (10.1 at 100), but these are all fairly squishy and not great DDs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • eirghaneirghan Posts: 1,912 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Personally i would say both. On my HA veno (who i use equally as fox/human) i have both a wanderer (with base buffs) for a tank and a nix (similar to scorpion)... I also have a frogling (for magic damage/debuffs). I find having a good dps good tank and good debuff pet basically covers most of my needs. I might look at getting ranged tank later but don't really need it....
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