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Uber-Veno Suggestion

Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Venomancer
Ya I know, that might be correct in the Veno-Subforums...but nobody really reads anything there.

I just played around a bit and wondered...why does noone take the real advantage of nowadays gear and the veno herself? The Veno is the only class in this game that can practically use any stat avaible, if done right. It was meant to be a hybrid class...and I guess builds like that:

http://pwcalc.com/d1fa65839e673631 -> Light Armor, Maximum Gear and Stats possible atm. (fully buffed ofc, but amazing even unbuffed)

would be more then OP.

You can do the same build with heavy G16, but then you would have alot more STR. Personally I think the Veno can use Dex better then STR (even higher Surviveability against melee-classes and higher crit + more avaible points for MAG thus more PewPew and more meg def with a little less HP and PDef)

Notice: All Calculations were done assuming the abolute max. Max Engrave on rings, neck, belt, helmet and robe + max meridian + max titles
pwcalc should really update soon.

What do you guys think? I guess...if well played...that veno could pulverize anything. Demon Veno ofc + she would be nearly unkillable.
Post edited by Joe - Morai on
My Barb:
mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

My SB:
mypers.pw/1.8/#141476

Comments

  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The main reason is because G16 Nirvana and R9r3 have a big gap in power. This discussion has been done in the past and the conclusion was that a maxed out R9r3 is still overall better than HA/LA maxed out builds.

    Granted, a HA will have more physical defence in human form but in fox form they will both reach 90% physical damage reduction. The higher the numbers, the harder to get more %.

    HA will also have higher HP than AA (unless it's AA vit build) but AA will have more defence levels (gear bonus) so it kinda evens out. LA and AA (pure magic build) won't have a big difference in HP.

    HA/LA builds usually serve the purpose of different playstyles (and often times alts/sharing gear), such as those who are more fox-form oriented. Nothing wrong with them, but if you're really talking about what's the overall best option for the Venomancer then R9r3 kinda wins and thus most people go for that route.

    This was a comparison I did together with my game husband a while back. Gear can be switched around as well as buffs to see various results. The comparison is not absolute but based on an average "ideal" build. This is a little outdated though as it doesn't include all the new things (latest engrave additions, upcoming reincarnation bonuses etc.).

    I don't know if you used the extra attributes from the reincarnation on your calculator (the numbers seem off) but the weapon should not have maxed stats as that's highly unlikely to achieve.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The main reason is because G16 Nirvana and R9r3 have a big gap in power.


    This discussion has been done in the past and the conclusion was that a maxed out R9r3 is still overall better than HA/LA maxed out builds. Granted, a HA will have more physical defence in human form but in fox form they will both reach 90% physical damage reduction. The higher the numbers, the harder to get more %.


    I agree with the first statement but the second paragraph isn't exactly accurate. You can see from your own AA build that even fully buffed, +12, and in fox form an AA build doesn't reach 90% reduction and falls almost 2k pdef short (would need to swap 4 JoSD for G12 Garnets). And that's only when fully buffed and in fox form. Human form or missing lvl 11 bell/vanguard they fall well short of the cap. Also in that comparison the HA veno has 3.8k hp more. You said a vit veno could make up the difference in hp but that would require about 215 vit =/

    Also, the % increase does become harder to achieve the higher it goes, but it also makes a bigger difference. The difference between 50% reduction and 51% reduction is 2% less damage but the difference between 89% and 90% reduction is 9% less damage. And you don't need the whole percentile to get benefits. For instance 89% reduction with 32k pdef won't reduce as much as 89% reduction with 34k pdef.

    You're right that r9t3 still blows HA out of the water overall because of their higher mdef and much higher attack, but HA venos have the slightly defensive edge. I'd argue that when killing/supporting with damage isn't a factor that HA venos still have the survivability edge. Purge and live to purge another day.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Mosz - Heavens TearMosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    those defense bonuses and phys/mag atk on r9 ring seem quite off, 23mag on cape? all perfect rerolls ..mmm
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I did state that my build comparisons were a little outdated.
    You can try using Wings of Ascension and see AA can get 90% (and then there's also belt engrave, didn't consider title/meridian bonuses either) Upcoming reincarnation will also grant more attribute points so that means Venomancers can swap for a more defensive cape if they want and still reach 800 magic point mark. Also, Wings of Ascension give more defence levels too, I believe? Something like +5 extra or +3, I forgot. Don't forget R9r3 route will get more defence levels overall. It stacks up the more +def stuff you get. (Which makes me think, a pure support HA Venomancer could also just get R8r weapon with defence levels instead if damage is not a factor).


    Since you like picking on each word; yes I did put my words incorrectly. What I meant was that the gap is smaller if you follow a Vit-Mag build. That of course hurts the damage though.

    Also, I've already said HA will have more physical defence in human form. I didn't completely dismiss it as a build. Actually I don't dismiss any build but I wanted to answer what's the overall best build/gear option/route for the Venomancer if you want to fully utilize the class. Being pure support is all fine, we are a support class, but if we're talking about fully using the class then you have to consider the more offensive part of it.

    AAs will still have some trouble against Assassins/Archers but we were also given Blazing Barrier which is honestly an amazing skill and rather spam-able (low chi cost, pretty low cd) and is often a great way to survive when you go into human form.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    those defense bonuses and phys/mag atk on r9 ring seem quite off, 23mag on cape? all perfect rerolls ..mmm

    Ya, I had no choice since the calc doesn't provide the new engraving system nor the meridian or title bonusses. I put them on random gear parts.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • PanboyAir - SanctuaryPanboyAir - Sanctuary Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Honestly, I am completely on board with a LA build veno, but I feel you can improve it by taking trading more magic points for dex so that you can switch to a bow with spirit blackhole when needed. Jaden Emperor's Defiance You might lose some magic, but the extra crits (with nation war ornaments) should compensate for the loss in damage.

    I bought a +10 bow that I plan to use on my veno after I get some extra stat points from reincarnation.

    Purging is a essential part of playing a veno. Why not maximize purge potential by increasing purge rate? Cool down for purge is 25-30 seconds-- time that can be spent purging with a bow in human form. The damage a person can do to a full buffed vs unbuffed opponent is more than double. So instead of getting more magic for DD, you should consider focusing on a build that would purge more often.

    As a demon veno, a lot of your DD comes from getting demon ironwood to proc 0 pdef. However, your opponents can prevent a 1-shot from arcane antinomy by simply using a def charm if your pet is not active. This is where a bow comes in handy. You can switch to a bow and shoot your opponents when they have 0 pdef, and it will kill them.

    The extra survivability from that build will be amazing for purging people in human form. I would also get windshield on my genie so that you can shoot people with the bow faster.
    I haven't posted on my main because I can't decide on a 105 Venomancer forum avatar.b:cute

    youtube.com/user/DietSnappleRaspberry
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