Nerf TideBorn

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  • Cheetoz - Harshlands
    Cheetoz - Harshlands Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    to the guy who made this post:

    theres been a legend that there was this thing called genies b:shocked. They have anti-stune skills and immune to dmg skills too b:shocked shocking i know, well guess what i heard tht you get them at lvl 1 :O and they don't cost a penny.......

    So to you guys QQing about sins and psy use your 2cents GET A GENIE and move on
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Cheetoz - Harshlands wrote: »
    to the guy who made this post:

    theres been a legend that there was this thing called genies b:shocked. They have anti-stune skills and immune to dmg skills too b:shocked shocking i know, well guess what i heard tht you get them at lvl 1 :O and they don't cost a penny.......

    So to you guys QQing about sins and psy use your 2cents GET A GENIE and move on

    If you check the whole thread only the op said, " nerf tideborn !! ".
    You mean genie skill fortify, or stunning blast, or badge of courage, adrenaline surge ? b:shocked
    And all those apothecary potion ?
    I just realize all of those things. . . b:shutup
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  • Seppuku - Raging Tide
    Seppuku - Raging Tide Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    i think your forgetting about end game .. enough said
  • Dinny - Heavens Tear
    Dinny - Heavens Tear Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    Don't nerf the Tideborn... Beef up the original races.

    This.

    In all seriousness though, PW balance is OK. I disagree about the assassins: they fight at blademaster and barbarian range but have to wear light armor. They're MUCH more vulnerable and if you can get in there, you can kill them with relative ease, especially if you're a heavy armor and you can take some hits. Mages aren't as lucky, and even archers need to be careful.

    Psychics are a bit different. It's pretty obvious that if you pit a Psychic and a Wizard against each other, a Psychic will win without contest. We need to close the gap between them one way or another.

    As it is, Wizards are incredibly underpowered as they were over-nerfed. I remember back in 2008 when this game started and they were incredibly overpowered, but PW kept taking them down further and further due to crying.
  • Limeball - Heavens Tear
    Limeball - Heavens Tear Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Davitiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yay! Another Tideborn OP thread. I call these now Tideborn OPera threads.b:chuckle

    *Grabs popcorn* :D
    Reikara - 94 HA/AA Veno - Heaven's Tear - Retired
    Limeball -84 Assassin - Heaven's Tear - Retired
    Reikarah - 99 Seeker - Sanctuary - Retired

    Why do I stick around? I draw pwi fanart.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    As it is, Wizards are incredibly underpowered as they were over-nerfed. I remember back in 2008 when this game started and they were incredibly overpowered, but PW kept taking them down further and further due to crying.

    hmm....
    does that mean we should start crying moar about teh tideborns?
    b:chuckle

    also me can beat similarly leveled psychics...
    just give me decent 8x/9x gear instead of teh 3x/4x/5x gear me are using.
    DX

    >.>
    <.<
    me will just say their weakness lies in how teh opponent controls their attacks.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Tideborn needs to be nerfed? My alt wiz almost pwned an assassin in duel. I made a slight kite mistake, which caused me to lose. and physic's heal is like a gimped ironheart with 20 secs cooldown I heard, Compare that with a slow casting wizard heal that takes almost 5 seconds to cast, how is that better than wiz heal? You and those people that have a hard time trying to beat tideborn and always lose, and not even come close? lol.

    Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »

    As it is, Wizards are incredibly underpowered as they were over-nerfed. I remember back in 2008 when this game started and they were incredibly overpowered, but PW kept taking them down further and further due to crying.


    Riiight. I tried wizard myself and they are far from overpowered. You can't 2 shot things, thats boring. There is a thing called gush, pitfall and distance shrink, and will of pheonix. Learn to kite. I do probably think its kinda the same people think as clerics, but they are forced to be just healers and thats it.
    Wizs and clerics have more potential than what you guys think
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Dinny - Heavens Tear
    Dinny - Heavens Tear Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Riiight. I tried wizard myself and they are far from overpowered. You can't 2 shot things, thats boring. There is a thing called gush, pitfall and distance shrink, and will of pheonix. Learn to kite. I do probably think its kinda the same people think as clerics, but they are forced to be just healers and thats it.
    Wizs and clerics have more potential than what you guys think

    ...

    Did you make a typo there somewhere? You say they're "far from overpowered" (i.e. you say they're underpowered, which is exactly what I said).

    You have to be skilled to use a wizard effectively, I'd say the same probably goes for a cleric, but I've never played a cleric. I just imagine it would be tricky juggling self-heals and attacks, in the same way that kiting as a wizard can be troublesome (and impossible if you're doing an archer).
  • Dinny - Heavens Tear
    Dinny - Heavens Tear Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    hmm....
    does that mean we should start crying moar about teh tideborns?
    b:chuckle

    also me can beat similarly leveled psychics...
    just give me decent 8x/9x gear instead of teh 3x/4x/5x gear me are using.
    DX

    >.>
    <.<
    me will just say their weakness lies in how teh opponent controls their attacks.

    If you cry hard enough, maybe they will. I can tell you it happened in 08 and it can happen again. D:

    But, agreed. Wizards just have to try even harder, I guess. Equips are more important than ever, and strategy is central to being a wizard from what I've seen. Wish that Will of the Phoenix actually knocked-back players, though.
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    theres no skill in using wizard.. spamm ur combo / macro and distance shrink, imba shield will take care of any melee.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Tideborn needs to be nerfed? My alt wiz almost pwned an assassin in duel. I made a slight kite mistake, which caused me to lose. and physic's heal is like a gimped ironheart with 20 secs cooldown I heard, Compare that with a slow casting wizard heal that takes almost 5 seconds to cast, how is that better than wiz heal? You and those people that have a hard time trying to beat tideborn and always lose, and not even come close? lol.

    .....you is lowbie wizard fighting a horrible assassin in...a....duel....
    (>.<)'
    Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you cry hard enough, maybe they will. I can tell you it happened in 08 and it can happen again. D:

    But, agreed. Wizards just have to try even harder, I guess. Equips are more important than ever, and strategy is central to being a wizard from what I've seen. Wish that Will of the Phoenix actually knocked-back players, though.

    Must....QQ...Moar~
    jk jk

    also rikako...what kind of brain damaged wizard uses macros in PvP?
    .....unless one sneaks up on the target then sure macros could work....
    b:sweat
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    theres a ton load of braindead wizards who only need to headroll onto their keyboard, due too much cash shop.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    rikako wrote: »
    theres a ton load of braindead wizards who only need to headroll onto their keyboard, due too much cash shop.

    .......
    good point
    b:sweat
    but the same goes for pretty much any class.
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    most jobs wont deal that damage, except sins( who are ****ed if you use anti stun) and barbs(only if your crit is high ) nix if you get pdef debuff, serious if you have played mage, you will notice barely any other job will reach that damage & defense ammount.
  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wiz's dps increases with the amount of -channel you have. Psy have low channeling but long cast time, and nothing decreases cast time. Psy get barely any benefit from -channel how that better than wiz?

    Also Psy rely on their phy damage immune skill alot when pvp and that cost a spark. To make it worse, or better, it doesn't make them immune to stun. This makes psy highly chi dependent.

    About black/white voodo. If they are instant cast and 10sec cd like bm's marrow skill, that's something. But since they are not it's pure suicidal for any psy to use black voodo to kill someone. If they don't kill you, they'll be dead afterwards. If they use white voodo, they can't kill ****.

    Wiz on the other hand have stone barrier and higher weapon damage %.

    Psy reflect? Can't really do much. With low pdef you'll be dead before you can get much out of it. VS mag classes it's jutt charm burn. Give that stuff to a cat barb in TW. His mana will be run out so fast that unless he uses a mp charm he won't even be able to save his own **** with turtle. That stuff is not a good buff to have on you.

    You make it sound like that Sin can stay invisible while killing you. Ranged classes always get to have the first hit and I don't see any melee complaining about that. Ranged classes always have an upper hand when pvping, so I don't see why it's imba to let just one melee class counter that.

    this.. bm lady with a brain.
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

    102 - Archer - Heartz
  • Swaze - Sanctuary
    Swaze - Sanctuary Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Most people are QQing about tideborns (in pvp only from what this OP cant get over) because they have yet to fully understand the class. I've dueled (i know its not the same as pk) many friends, and after numerous times, I would have to change my strategy because they adapted.

    We fear that which we cannot understand.

    TB has a ton of holes in there classes. Its for you to adapt and overcome. Going straight to complaining and crying is unsightly. I suggest you give it a rest.
    1st sage assassin in sanctuary. That's right, I jumped in with my eyes half closed. b:cute
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    rikako wrote: »
    theres no skill in using wizard.. spamm ur combo / macro and distance shrink, imba shield will take care of any melee.

    Every race takes no skill to use. Barb just keeps aggro, Veno pulls(some skill i guess), archer shoots, bm stuns, wiz casts, cleric is the only one that has a tough job of keeping everyone alive because 95% of the players in this game are pretty stupid and wonder off trying to solo monsters, making the cleric have to chase them and heal them before they die or they complain about a poor cleric.
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Most people are QQing about tideborns (in pvp only from what this OP cant get over) because they have yet to fully understand the class. I've dueled (i know its not the same as pk) many friends, and after numerous times, I would have to change my strategy because they adapted.

    We fear that which we cannot understand.

    TB has a ton of holes in there classes. Its for you to adapt and overcome. Going straight to complaining and crying is unsightly. I suggest you give it a rest.

    So how does an archer hit an assassin? All you TideBorn saying you're not overpowered still can't answer the simple questions and admit that you're overpowered. I have both an assassin and psy. Psy attacks crazy fast compared to wiz in terms of damage, and its buffs push it over the edge. Assassin is 100% invisible and can PK like crazy. It takes 15 mana to run around invisible. Sure it keeps draining, but thats what charms were invented for.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I think your question got answered so many damn times it got you blinded. You indeed can't hit the Sin while he's invis (IT'S KIND OF THE POINT ISN'T IT?), but he has to come out of his invisibility to hit you. Just use Genie Skills to counter the stun or stun him yourself with the same Genie Skills. You get a Sin disabled, you get a free kill.

    Now, stop whining, will ya.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • Swaze - Sanctuary
    Swaze - Sanctuary Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

    So how does an archer hit an assassin? All you TideBorn saying you're not overpowered still can't answer the simple questions and admit that you're overpowered. I have both an assassin and psy. Psy attacks crazy fast compared to wiz in terms of damage, and its buffs push it over the edge. Assassin is 100% invisible and can PK like crazy. It takes 15 mana to run around invisible. Sure it keeps draining, but thats what charms were invented for.


    It's called self preservation. I wouldn't be dumb enough to break down how to beat me (or any other assassins for that matter) just to prove you wrong. If you can't figure it out, that's your own problem. I've been beaten plenty of times before. Do you want a list of those people so you can pick their brains for the answer you cant seem to come up with on your own?
    1st sage assassin in sanctuary. That's right, I jumped in with my eyes half closed. b:cute
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Risingson - Lost City wrote: »
    I think your question got answered so many damn times it got you blinded. You indeed can't hit the Sin while he's invis (IT'S KIND OF THE POINT ISN'T IT?), but he has to come out of his invisibility to hit you. Just use Genie Skills to counter the stun or stun him yourself with the same Genie Skills. You get a Sin disabled, you get a free kill.

    Now, stop whining, will ya.
    Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's called self preservation. I wouldn't be dumb enough to break down how to beat me (or any other assassins for that matter) just to prove you wrong. If you can't figure it out, that's your own problem. I've been beaten plenty of times before. Do you want a list of those people so you can pick their brains for the answer you cant seem to come up with on your own?

    Its impossible to hit you. That says it all right there. You two are pretty stupid not being able to see that. Next time you're about to fight someone, let them hit you a few times. Then start attacking back. Lets see how you last. Barb has high hp and physical def, so for counter you use magic. BM has stun lock, so you keep them away from you. Wiz has high elemental hits, so you hit them first. Sin = can't be hit, can't keep them away, can't hit them first because.. they can't be hit.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Astoru - Heavens Tear
    Astoru - Heavens Tear Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    As it is, Wizards are incredibly underpowered as they were over-nerfed. I remember back in 2008 when this game started and they were incredibly overpowered, but PW kept taking them down further and further due to crying.
    What?

    I've been playing my wizard since this server opened, and I've noticed no changes. At all. My wizard sucked pre-60 like any other normal wizard.
    ●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Incl_ination - Heavens Tear
    Incl_ination - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Psychics are sooo easy to take down (trust me i play em)
    and in groups, one of the psychics main roles are usually to protect the cleric if they pull agro, and once a psy pulls that agro they drop in 1-2 hits. At lvl 66 my psy can still can 3 shot killed by lvl 40 enemies, and when they buff their defense they can't damage at all.
    Sure in PvP they can take people down fast, but its not too hard to kill them. I mean BMs and Barbs have True Emptiness on their genies that can make them completely immune to mag dmg while dealing a ton of damage.
    So Psy gets 5 sec immunity to physical dmg, but BMs and Barbs have around 8 second mag absorption.
    Also, Tideborns have no specialized genie skills come to think of it, and those can completely turn the tables in a Duel or PK match.
    And I've been able to kill tons of sins on my psy, BM, and Veno... they're invisibility restricts their attacks, and if you can't stun them with skills that have no casting time... well that's a personal problem
    So it really comes down to this... you complain about Tideborns being OP, but they have just as many strengths and weaknesses as the rest of the classes. They are just on the ends of the spectrum
  • Swaze - Sanctuary
    Swaze - Sanctuary Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Its impossible to hit you. That says it all right there. You two are pretty stupid not being able to see that. Next time you're about to fight someone, let them hit you a few times. Then start attacking back. Lets see how you last. Barb has high hp and physical def, so for counter you use magic. BM has stun lock, so you keep them away from you. Wiz has high elemental hits, so you hit them first. Sin = can't be hit, can't keep them away, can't hit them first because.. they can't be hit.


    Let us sit there and take a few hits to see how long we last? lol, are you thinking we dont realize we're squishy? Hence our stealth ability.

    Are we a superb gank class? yes
    Are we given the upperhand on the first strick? yes


    Archers were once the top gank class. Are you just QQing because we do it better than you now? Cause thats all I'm getting from your QQ-ing
    1st sage assassin in sanctuary. That's right, I jumped in with my eyes half closed. b:cute
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I'm a Psychic you moron. There is no point talking to you, you sad sad man. You're always repeating the same thing no matter what ("We can't hit you so there") so that pretty much concludes the discussion. If you're unable to handle an argument and listen to the people you call for, don't start one. Ever.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...

    Did you make a typo there somewhere? You say they're "far from overpowered" (i.e. you say they're underpowered, which is exactly what I said).

    You have to be skilled to use a wizard effectively, I'd say the same probably goes for a cleric, but I've never played a cleric. I just imagine it would be tricky juggling self-heals and attacks, in the same way that kiting as a wizard can be troublesome (and impossible if you're doing an archer).

    I meant to say far from underpowered. Not one single class have it easy (other than veno). and I have to tell you, I am NOT used to being a squishy DD. EVER. So yeah, I expect to die a lot, but its funny that I have it easier on wizard than on archer, and I bet yes, an assassin.
    Only class that really have trouble is behind the player (if its a veno, then yeah they suck xD)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

    VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
    HA > LA > AR... GG

    HA + VIT = win b:bye
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    difficulty levels of classes from 1 - 10
    barb = 4
    archer = 2
    wizard = 2
    bm = 3
    veno = 4
    cleric = 9
    psy = 1
    assassin = 2
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    This topic is a PERFECT example of what I always say. SHUT UP AND LEARN TO PLAY

    Poor baby can't win if he can't gank. Too darn bad. Learn how to properly pvp and you won't have this problem. I don't have the problem you do. I actually know what to do when I get hit unlike the rest of you.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Tidebornisim - Raging Tide
    Tidebornisim - Raging Tide Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This topic is a PERFECT example of what I always say. SHUT UP AND LEARN TO PLAY

    Poor baby can't win if he can't gank. Too darn bad. Learn how to properly pvp and you won't have this problem. I don't have the problem you do. I actually know what to do when I get hit unlike the rest of you.

    Thank you SO MUCH for this.

    People just need to do one thing... And that is to:

    GET A LIFE AND PLAY THE DAMN GAME
    StickyGreen - Level 9x Heavens Tear

    Less QQ more Pew Pew b:thanks
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Get a life... and play the game? That couldn't be any farther apart on the PH scale.

    If you keep your over-powered ridiculousness, lets agree that whenever you go into battle, don't attack anything until you get hit 2-3 times. That is basically whats going on when you go against any other class.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Get a life... and play the game? That couldn't be any farther apart on the PH scale.

    If you keep your over-powered ridiculousness, lets agree that whenever you go into battle, don't attack anything until you get hit 2-3 times. That is basically whats going on when you go against any other class.

    Stop. Just stop.

    As a melee class, you don't think whenever I try to go and kill a wizard, I don't see myself take massive damage? And then when I'm finally there they suddenly fly back 15 meters? And then when I reach them again I'm silenced, and then sleeped?

    Seriously, holy hell. Assassins can't attack when they're in stealth. And if they do pop out of stealth and lock you, there's something called GENIE SKILLS. This fabulous invention allows you to use skills even when you're stunned. There's probably a billion other ways out there to fight against sins.

    Your whole argument is based on the invulnerability of sins in stealth, which is:

    1. a misconception. invulnerability implies invincibility. They are far from invincible in stealth. You just can't target them. And once they attack, they are out of stealth hence THEY ARE NOT "INVULNERABLE". Unless you're telling me someone can somehow fight without attacking, then you're right, they're pretty invulnerable.

    2. stupid. Just because a class can always manage the first hit on you, doesn't imply they are overpowered. The first hit is important, nobody can deny that, but when a BM or Barb fights any other ranged class, who do you think gets the first hit? Obviously the one with longer range.

    Bottom line is, this is a game. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses, regardless of how powerful they are. Perhaps some have less of a weakness then the other, but if you're a good player, you'll know how to exploit them.

    Ex.

    Sin pops out of stealth and stuns you. Your wizard friend hits him for wtfwutjusthappened damage. Sin is on the ground.




    One of the few times I agree with Zoe.
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    SHUT UP AND LEARN TO PLAY
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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