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Every Game makes mistakes...

Like every, single time when a new game starts and I (ofc) participate from the get-go...so many mistakes become obvious. Mistakes that every, single MMORPG out there did and still does.When you look at those games (BLMess Online, Black PTDessert, Build Wars 2, Felder Scrolls Online, Revalution Online and many more)..they all suck in some regard. They all also got something that is nice about them..overall..none of those games are better than PWI in total, not even when considering all the flaws PWI has. Those games, since they are newer, only got the advantage of being more beginner friendly..but if you just think for a second that it is easier to get max gears there than it is in PWI..you can't be more wrong. It's easier to get lose in those games but at least with half of those games it's insanely hard and takes thousands of hours to even get close to endgame. Worst thing...also in most of those games everyone has the exact same gear, no variation at all. Same gear, same built, everything the same. This is one of the advantages of PWI. You got options, especially with the glyphs now on top of it.

SO before people start raging at PWI again...go check out the forums on those games I've mentioned and literally see DOZENS OF DOZENS of threads doing nothing else but QQing about this and that. PWI isn't dead, at least not more than those games named above. The whole genre seems to be coming to an end cause there is no real evolution. Everything is basically the same just colored differently. Hence, I stick with PWI. Nothing to gain from those other games but way more effort than I would ever need to continue PWI. See the brightside guys. PWI might be garbage but the other games are even more so.
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Comments

  • tabaloultabaloul Posts: 159 Arc User
    PWI is dead.
    there are few to no things that could be done to make it last even just few more months...
    and the blame goes to everyone, to PWE staff that is just negligent and to the players that went greedy and decided to destroy any sort of balance and challenge on the servers.
  • zombiemaster123zombiemaster123 Posts: 109 Arc User
    tabaloul wrote: »
    PWI is dead.
    there are few to no things that could be done to make it last even just few more months...
    and the blame goes to everyone, to PWE staff that is just negligent and to the players that went greedy and decided to destroy any sort of balance and challenge on the servers.

    And why is it dead exactly? I still see more than enough active people on Dawnglory. There are still dozens of individuals that farm even TT/Lunar...Many, many people active in factions just doing their daily business. Yes, there is less PK, but that doesnt mean that the game is dead. Other server might be dead, true, Dawnglory is fine tho. Compared to a year ago..the amount of players has even increased overall..in terms of active ppl on the server...so many new R9 people EVERYWHERE...
  • fury85fury85 Posts: 261 Arc User
    I agree with Joe.
    QQing is normal, same ingame as in real life. But I think if you QQ about PWI, is because you like PWI. If you don't like the game, why you should QQ?

    Actually I can't find a game where I enjoy more than PWI, with all his limits (outdated graphic engine, etc).

    I think that the bad limit of PWI compared to other games, is to not have a Devs Team but they depend from China for everything. That create many problem on the events (events are what keep players on a 9-years old game) that result unbalanced for our player base.

    I still don't understand why people complain about cashing gears, when you all clearly know that a free to play turn automatically into a pay 2 win when they reach a good amount of players. Its not PWI, but all free to play!




    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • nunuatornunuator Posts: 398 Arc User
    Compared to a year ago..the amount of players has even increased overall..in terms of active ppl on the server...so many new R9 people EVERYWHERE...

    Maybe a small margin of new players are actually new players but, the amount of bought accounts especially with people freaking out about the game “dying” has increased exponentially...

    Yes new R9 toons are popping up but what percentage of these are actually “new” players and not another alt of someone that got bored with a toon and or renamed a bought account...

  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Like every, single time when a new game starts and I (ofc) participate from the get-go...so many mistakes become obvious. Mistakes that every, single MMORPG out there did and still does.When you look at those games (BLMess Online, Black PTDessert, Build Wars 2, Felder Scrolls Online, Revalution Online and many more)..they all suck in some regard. They all also got something that is nice about them..overall..none of those games are better than PWI in total, not even when considering all the flaws PWI has. Those games, since they are newer, only got the advantage of being more beginner friendly..but if you just think for a second that it is easier to get max gears there than it is in PWI..you can't be more wrong. It's easier to get lose in those games but at least with half of those games it's insanely hard and takes thousands of hours to even get close to endgame. Worst thing...also in most of those games everyone has the exact same gear, no variation at all. Same gear, same built, everything the same. This is one of the advantages of PWI. You got options, especially with the glyphs now on top of it.

    SO before people start raging at PWI again...go check out the forums on those games I've mentioned and literally see DOZENS OF DOZENS of threads doing nothing else but QQing about this and that. PWI isn't dead, at least not more than those games named above. The whole genre seems to be coming to an end cause there is no real evolution. Everything is basically the same just colored differently. Hence, I stick with PWI. Nothing to gain from those other games but way more effort than I would ever need to continue PWI. See the brightside guys. PWI might be garbage but the other games are even more so.

    The fact that you had the need to create a thread like this shows that there is something wrong with this game and both the Publisher and developer. When a game is doing fine there is now need to defend them, their sales and populations per server would be enough answer to the trolls QQ. Still I do agree with you that this game is not dead, at least not completly dead…

    However the main flaw in your way of thinking is that you are looking at things only from your perspecive, specially when you compare the whole gear progression and from what @fury85 said, I can asume you are joe, and from what I know about you, you have several r9 end game or close to end game chars, of course that from someone who is at that stage, the game Will be fun, because you already played several years, you know how to make money, you probably have the capacity to charge and you probably are really into the game (not gonna say addict since is not my intention to insult you).

    I can tell you that as a person with 3 r9, one of them close max gear and several g16 alts, it is not a problem for me to get anything in this game, and there is still some fun for me in some of the new dungeons. However, thing is that sometimes we need to look around us to see the problems, remember that this is an online game, and the game life depends a lot in the number of people that play the game, EVEN if some of those people don't cash too much or at all.
    What do you think is going to happen when pretty much all people that is not super OP quit?

    The people that is already OP Will have no people to fill their factions, no people who buy their stuff, no people to make sqds with, no more future pvp rivals. All that Will make even more people to quit, and some of those will take their friends with them.
    In fact I say "will" but to be honest with you this is something that I already saw on the server I play: Etherblade, several times during 2017.
    This is what you seem to be uncapable to grasp, if there is pretty much no people left, there is no point in playing, after all there are way better single player games out there, for those who want to play solo.

    Also about your whole comparison with other games in gear progression: A friend that still plays pwi, not long ago invited me to play other MMO from the creators of loot boxes... Funny thing is that despite that company actually being the creator of the whole pack system that games like pwi use. That other game is way less pw2 than PWI and I was able to get end game gear in about 5 months playing a reasonable amount of time, in fact I even cashed later on that game a few cosmetic items and some sort of premium service, just to support the Publisher. Sadly that game is also losing population very fast.

    Not going to say that I agree with all the people that QQ about everything, however people that act as a fanboys and defend the indefensible just 'cause they are fanboys or just for the sake of argue, are not also of much help. And while there are people that QQ over everything, there are also people that is just giving their opinion. And just because their thoughts won't align with yours or this Publisher and developer, that does not make them wrong.
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @eeepsilon I agree. I have even stated something like this in former posts of mine.

    However, the issue is that the majority of people that are actively complaining are those that already have great gears. So my post was more directed at them. Personally, there are some new players in Crisis even that started a few months ago and farmed everything up to r9 with decent refines. It is still possible, even more so because many "over-farmers" have left the game. If you find your niche then you will be doing fine, even today.

    I agree that this does not motivate masses of people to join the game...but look at it this way: This games small community is actually what makes it special right now. PWI is in a good place. It is. If you would have too many people still farming everything..then no one would be able to farm their way up to endgame gears. Now, not many farm anymore at all, including me, giving the market to new players.

    Personally, I don't need hordes of new players..they will not be any competition anyways..even the most ambitious people I have met will not close the experience-gap even after a full year of playing and as long as PvP is concernered, Experience is everything. The old core is the only PvP-competition, no matter the gears, at least from my PoV. More casual PvP ofc needs new people and that would do well for the game, especially quite a few of the heaviest cashers quit the game because there were no lowbies left to farm in open world.

    As for PvE, people might be a bit elite with their parties..which is something I will never understand. A majority just looks at the gears when they make a squad for certain instances. I personally would only care for, yet again, experience. If you have overgeared people with no rotation at all, that can't even use their debuffs decently and all that..if you just have 1 major DD + 9 other people that are perfectly timing all their debuffs/Amps then you might out-DD a squad full of max geared people that are just "auto-attacking", so to speak. The biggest issue with "game-related-problems", 90% of the time, stems from the community themselves. That point is where I appreciate games like WoW or FF, simply because if you don't know the mechanics or play perfectly, you might end up wiping the entire party and ofc, will get replaced. IMHO knowledge over gear, any day.
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @eeepsilon I agree. I have even stated something like this in former posts of mine.

    However, the issue is that the majority of people that are actively complaining are those that already have great gears. So my post was more directed at them. Personally, there are some new players in Crisis even that started a few months ago and farmed everything up to r9 with decent refines. It is still possible, even more so because many "over-farmers" have left the game. If you find your niche then you will be doing fine, even today.

    I agree that this does not motivate masses of people to join the game...but look at it this way: This games small community is actually what makes it special right now. PWI is in a good place. It is. If you would have too many people still farming everything..then no one would be able to farm their way up to endgame gears. Now, not many farm anymore at all, including me, giving the market to new players.

    Personally, I don't need hordes of new players..they will not be any competition anyways..even the most ambitious people I have met will not close the experience-gap even after a full year of playing and as long as PvP is concernered, Experience is everything. The old core is the only PvP-competition, no matter the gears, at least from my PoV. More casual PvP ofc needs new people and that would do well for the game, especially quite a few of the heaviest cashers quit the game because there were no lowbies left to farm in open world.

    As for PvE, people might be a bit elite with their parties..which is something I will never understand. A majority just looks at the gears when they make a squad for certain instances. I personally would only care for, yet again, experience. If you have overgeared people with no rotation at all, that can't even use their debuffs decently and all that..if you just have 1 major DD + 9 other people that are perfectly timing all their debuffs/Amps then you might out-DD a squad full of max geared people that are just "auto-attacking", so to speak. The biggest issue with "game-related-problems", 90% of the time, stems from the community themselves. That point is where I appreciate games like WoW or FF, simply because if you don't know the mechanics or play perfectly, you might end up wiping the entire party and ofc, will get replaced. IMHO knowledge over gear, any day.

    I agree with you that there are definitely people complaining about some really dumb stuff, it is also true that if a player is already well geared, there is not much to complain, both in pvp and pve.

    However my main problem with both PW China and PWE is that they seem to intentionally make changes to the game to draw away their not OP people. Maybe they do this to combat boting in China or maybe with the intention to turn those non rich people into cashers.
    Whatever their reason is, I feel that what they are doing is backfiring at them really bad.
    There are plenty of examples of what I am talking about, but some of the most easy to spot are:

    - Nerfing in a lot of primal quest, while some of those quest give more vitae now, they removed several basic items from those quests that make them not worth it for people that needed star chart items among other stuff, there was really no excuse to do this, since the items those quest gave were not really end game mats. Now to be fair here, I have not done those in a while so I am not sure if during the last update they did something good to that, but I doub it.
    - Remove of the lvl 1 glyph from the craft on Neverfal. I know there probably was people abusing it, but as usual they punish the entire playerbase for the wrong of a few. Also they could just made a bounded version like they always do and problem solved, so really no excuse here.
    - Remove of perfect stone farming. Same thing, this farming method really was not harming anyone. If they wanted to make them easy to get, they could have put the item in the npc just as they did, but leaveing the whole system alone, so Farmer would just had less profit.
    - Cube of fate destruction. Again, no excuse here. People was already getting a lot of those from packs so why prevent the few people doing cube to get a few millions?.
    - G15 set destruction. What can I say about this…. In order to get a g15 set now you are forced to go to place that not only ask you to be reawakened but also good geared. So you need r9 to get g15 :D

    I could keep going with more stuff, but I think you get what I am trying to say.

    Keep in mind that as person with not only good gear and plenty of ways to make in game money but also good job irl, for me nothing of the mentioned above affects me really that much, but again I try to look at things from the other side.
    And as me and many other people said in the past on these forums: This game should be more about playing the game than about to try to milk every sigle penny from people that is not even going to cash. The people who already cash a lot, the ones who are max geared will not stop cashing 'cause there is a quest that gives lvl 1 glyphs or 'cause there was a forge at nirvana that allow you to make g15 Helms/capes... Those people already have lvl 6 or better glyphs and g17 capes and Helms...


    My whole point is that the game can be PW2, the game can have packs, keys and all that stuff, it can have dungeons exclusive to endgame players. But they don't need to destroy the old content that the non OP people still need to do just for random reasons.
    In order to get to end game and even start spending a lot, people need to get there somehow, but during the last years it looks almost as PWCN and PWE were trying to intentioanally make most of the non OP people rage quit.
  • armoftheland33armoftheland33 Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    overall..none of those games are better than PWI in total, not even when considering all the flaws PWI has.

    If you think so, then you should keep playing PWI. It surely is the only place where you will ever get to boast about your viewer counts on Youtube.

    You are right in the regard that all games have things wrong with them, and all games have people complaining about stuff.

    But I disagree that other games are not better than PWI.
    • Other games have adequate staffing and open communication with their player base.
    • Other games have staff that take player feedback and produce content to please their players.
    • Other games fix bugs.
    • Other games severely limit or completely avoid pay to win.
    • Other games focus on class and skill balance and make changes to improve it.
    • Other games work to ban bots.
    • Other games ban accounts for exploiting to gain wealth or achievements rather than because your IP address changed.
    • Other games try to assist balance in the economy by tweaking drop rates of items and gold sinks.


    Even if you shrug your shoulders at the many flaws MMORPGs have these days because all games have them, the quantity and severity of flaws PWI has vs other games is just not comparable.

    I'm not saying that because I think people should quit PWI -- If you like the game then play it. It's a fun game. But I do not see the point in pretending that other games are just as bad or worse when it's simply not true.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    I dont know why we are even talking bout F2P MMORPGs as an option for good games. I believe its adequately been proven no company anywhere manages F2P titles well - They get too greedy and build their market strategies for whales, which pretty much sucks for balancing purposes.

    So the real games I`d ask for Joe to look at are the 2 MMORPGs I mentioned on another thread, the biggest baddest of them all population wise and the Japanese PS solo game publisher, which made a very popular MMORPG. They are both P2P and thus P2W aspects are either small or non existent, depending on game and how you view things.

    PWI management is garbage. The game is filled with bugs that been there for a decade and instead of fixing them, the devs manage to break the game more and more. I agree PWI could of been potentially amazing game, it was still pretty good game I spent a lot of time on but with less and less ppl playing, how stupid most of the events in game have gotten, there is barely any reason to log on for me. Heck, I browse these forums more than I spend time in game - If it wasnt for my friends I want to support I would of moved on completely some time ago.

    When comparing forums, the actually popular games forums I cannot keep up with, specially if "something happened", big or small and I have to pick and choose on what topics I try to follow. Here we got roughly 30 threads that have been posted on in the past week. Try actually popular game and that number is exceeded in few minutes. For all intents and purposes, PWI is dead for most ppl, just because servers are running doesnt mean ppl consider it alive.

    Ps. I dont know bout you but to me MMORPGs are a lot bout playing with other ppl - on PWI this is becoming harder and harder.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    tabaloul wrote: »
    PWI is dead.
    there are few to no things that could be done to make it last even just few more months...
    and the blame goes to everyone, to PWE staff that is just negligent and to the players that went greedy and decided to destroy any sort of balance and challenge on the servers.

    And why is it dead exactly? I still see more than enough active people on Dawnglory. There are still dozens of individuals that farm even TT/Lunar...Many, many people active in factions just doing their daily business. Yes, there is less PK, but that doesnt mean that the game is dead. Other server might be dead, true, Dawnglory is fine tho. Compared to a year ago..the amount of players has even increased overall..in terms of active ppl on the server...so many new R9 people EVERYWHERE...


    Active players on DawnGlory? Wtf There’s barely anyone left on the server but EU. Most of us get off work by 4-4:30 my time and if I don’t get jfsp by 5pm-5:45 which reset for me is 5 I’m really in trip to get a decent squad. DA activity wise is a complete joke as of late to anything but EU it seems QQ. New r9? Most of them are friggin bought accounts and we both can name a dozen off the head hardly trying what in the world. ET I would totally agree with you, but I get more done on the other servers than I ever can and see a more robust community on them than DA by far. It’s literally rediculous and what other server but DA charms are 15m? This server is just wow man lmfao
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • tabaloultabaloul Posts: 159 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    tabaloul wrote: »
    PWI is dead.
    there are few to no things that could be done to make it last even just few more months...
    and the blame goes to everyone, to PWE staff that is just negligent and to the players that went greedy and decided to destroy any sort of balance and challenge on the servers.

    And why is it dead exactly? I still see more than enough active people on Dawnglory. There are still dozens of individuals that farm even TT/Lunar...Many, many people active in factions just doing their daily business. Yes, there is less PK, but that doesnt mean that the game is dead. Other server might be dead, true, Dawnglory is fine tho. Compared to a year ago..the amount of players has even increased overall..in terms of active ppl on the server...so many new R9 people EVERYWHERE...


    Active players on DawnGlory? Wtf There’s barely anyone left on the server but EU. Most of us get off work by 4-4:30 my time and if I don’t get jfsp by 5pm-5:45 which reset for me is 5 I’m really in trip to get a decent squad. DA activity wise is a complete joke as of late to anything but EU it seems QQ. New r9? Most of them are friggin bought accounts and we both can name a dozen off the head hardly trying what in the world. ET I would totally agree with you, but I get more done on the other servers than I ever can and see a more robust community on them than DA by far. It’s literally rediculous and what other server but DA charms are 15m? This server is just wow man lmfao

    lmao Dawnglory is the apotheosis of a dead server
    there is literaly nothing
    no pk, no tw, no balance in any event, sarokkan is not even contested, tnf is not contested, xTW is not contested

    if you want to see how PWI should look you should log epw or some other p servers and see how the activity is there egg-1.gif

    everyone even historical players, even portals quit\ sold their assets\coins \ sold\are selling their accounts
    that's says enough on the server's health....

    and that's not just for the losing side.... what happened to /Eclipse\ ? Kanjiro ? Auragen ? those were pretty large whales that are gone
    yea Dawnglory is deftly healty egg-2.gif​​
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    tabaloul wrote: »
    blazerboy wrote: »
    tabaloul wrote: »
    PWI is dead.
    there are few to no things that could be done to make it last even just few more months...
    and the blame goes to everyone, to PWE staff that is just negligent and to the players that went greedy and decided to destroy any sort of balance and challenge on the servers.

    And why is it dead exactly? I still see more than enough active people on Dawnglory. There are still dozens of individuals that farm even TT/Lunar...Many, many people active in factions just doing their daily business. Yes, there is less PK, but that doesnt mean that the game is dead. Other server might be dead, true, Dawnglory is fine tho. Compared to a year ago..the amount of players has even increased overall..in terms of active ppl on the server...so many new R9 people EVERYWHERE...


    Active players on DawnGlory? Wtf There’s barely anyone left on the server but EU. Most of us get off work by 4-4:30 my time and if I don’t get jfsp by 5pm-5:45 which reset for me is 5 I’m really in trip to get a decent squad. DA activity wise is a complete joke as of late to anything but EU it seems QQ. New r9? Most of them are friggin bought accounts and we both can name a dozen off the head hardly trying what in the world. ET I would totally agree with you, but I get more done on the other servers than I ever can and see a more robust community on them than DA by far. It’s literally rediculous and what other server but DA charms are 15m? This server is just wow man lmfao

    lmao Dawnglory is the apotheosis of a dead server
    there is literaly nothing
    no pk, no tw, no balance in any event, sarokkan is not even contested, tnf is not contested, xTW is not contested

    if you want to see how PWI should look you should log epw or some other p servers and see how the activity is there egg-1.gif

    everyone even historical players, even portals quit\ sold their assets\coins \ sold\are selling their accounts
    that's says enough on the server's health....

    and that's not just for the losing side.... what happened to /Eclipse\ ? Kanjiro ? Auragen ? those were pretty large whales that are gone
    yea Dawnglory is deftly healty egg-2.gif​​

    Quit, taking a break last I heard, and massive chargeback aka quit
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @blazerboy Kanji is still playing, just took a break. Rest is gone. Ofc alot of active PvPers quit..but that has been the case for ages and ages and ofc..not many PvPed in the first place..so if a few of them quit the game you instantly notice it..has nothing to do with the game being dead tho.

    That's what I was talking about..the amount of PvP does not reflect the activity on a server. There was literally NO PVP AT ALL on all the other server BUT Dawnglory for months on end a few years ago. DA was literally the only server with any PvP activity..and now it's dead? rofl. It's been way worse activity-wise before. For now its actually not half-bad. PvE is still strong xDDD

    @saxroll There is a reason why I didnt mention FF and WoW...I personally played both of them several times to the current gear gap and while I enjoyed it there...forget PvP, forget competition. PvE is nice and challenging..but even that gets old when the same random-Noobs keeps **** up a 3h Raid AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN..hence I prefer games vastly that offer me a possibility to solo stuff if push comes to shove. I RQ'ed both those games many times because I was forced to endure the endless incompetence of random players. IMHO, that's real cancer and now I avoid those games like the plague.

    F2P games are still a nice concept..even if they cater to whales..IF you have the possibility to earn anything ingame as well..PWI realizes that via the AH and that works quite well. There should be a rework in terms of the AH cap and all...but you can farm it all in PWI. Doesn't even take much longer compared to FF/WoW...you can farm every day for 5h in TT and keep a shop up 24/7 or get rekt by noobs in raids for the same time WITH RNG drops and loads more frustration OR military style hardcore groups..which also results in vastly more stress. PWI allows for easy solo farming, just chilling, making progress, no pressure.

    Obviously I enjoy games like this but that's just me but I think what I just mentioned is exactly what people still love about PWI, at least veterans. Games like BDO, Revelation..literally all of them are no cake-walk..not like you log in, play a month and you are max gear...no, not in the slightest..some of those have an even harder progression than PWI..and you cannot get several Passives to boost your stats like in PWI. Just G16 with all passives maxed makes your char decent and lets you even compete in PvP (tho depends on the class) and you can make yourself useful in Mass-PvP and can enjoy PvE. BDO is a good example...FF too...damn..the amount of work you need to put in to even be able to get close to endgame..welp.

    PWI's worst flaws are the lack of bugfixing and communication with the community..tho latter only applies for a while..then we get a new CM and communication returns...so it's not 100% sucky...the management is questionable tho, I agree.

    Anything else...especially balancing..is non-existent even in WOW and FF. There is no true balancing and there will never be balancing. In PWI, especially if you view purely 1v1, you have the power to completely balance that. sure, you have to regulate buffs, gears and stuff for specific classes..but you at least have the option to create balance yourself. That's something those games don't even slightly allow. If you want me to go out there and say then I will: PWI is by far the most balanced MMORPG out there. Just for the fact that you can balance it yourself, as the player. Even LoL, OW, FN, PUBG, COD, CS...they are all imbalanced. True balance is same class/stats vs same class/stats in those games cause you have no chance to optimize/tweak your stats to work around inherent class-powers/flaws. In PWI you can. Only in PWI. That is literally the only reason why I play PWI instead of any other game. They can try to create "balancing"-fixes in those games..but none of those have managed to pull that off yet. Not even in the slightest. Not for PvE and especially not for PvP, Mass or 1v1, doesnt matter.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    Why would you endure idiots when you can just kick them/not party up with them in the future? The casual content is casual, short of ppl intentionally messing up the run you`re gonna get trough it pretty fast. Raids are another thing but again, why would you tolerate ppl who dont show signs of improvement?

    FF14 has a meta but it is by far the best balanced PvE game I have ever played. While you have meta, the meta does not matter. You are good enough and you can clear any content on any class, if there is something gamebreaking in your class? Just switch class with the click of a button.

    WoW has a lot better PvP aspects on it than FF14 and not too behind in PvE aspects imo. WoW is by far the most popular MMORPG for a reason, the game is that good. While there are ppl who prefer niche games like PWI, most ppl dont.

    As for loot councils, etc. Blizzard is combating the "issue" by adjusting loot rules in the next expansion, basically they are trying to force loot councils away. I dont agree with their decision nor their execution if I actually agreed with the intent. And even so, if you dont like it, you can always join a guild that has random loot. But most if not all actual raid guilds do not have random loot for a reason - loot master promotes good things in group setting. For example you can reward activity, skill and stack up your best players so they can carry rest of the raid trough easier. Dont get me wrong, the idea of somebody else having control over your loot wasnt easy concept for me to understand at first either but it is still better than other options I`ve seen. If guild leadership abuses it, just leave the guild, simple as that.

    As I said earlier, I play MMORPGs because I want to play with ppl. Sure, there has to be solo content in them too but "casual chilling and making progress" translates to uninteresting, braindead boss encounters, which you can do your eyes closed. And that is not something I find interesting. I`ve done thousand(s?) TT runs in my life because the rewards were decent enough at the time. But I didnt find the instance itself appealing and thats not the case with the games I find far better than PWI.

    Ps. I find it ludicrous you say PWI has the best balance of all games - There are massive class imbalances(mainly LA melee classes) and insane powercreep. But sure, PWI super balanced.



    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @saxroll Why do you ignore the fact that I have even explained why PWI is the only balanced game. Ofc, by itself its broken af, but YOU CAN BALANCE IT ON YOUR OWN. NO other game allows that. Like if you are too squishy to survive basic CC-Locks from Sins and DBs? Simply apply buffs to your class, giving you breathing room and the chance to strike back eventually and would force the sin/DB to step their game up. Just an example. In other games..something like this is literally impossible and very impractical at best.

    This kind of balance is good enough for me..since anything more is utterly impossible in any game available to date :(
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    PWI's worst flaws are the lack of bugfixing and communication with the community..tho latter only applies for a while..then we get a new CM and communication returns...so it's not 100% sucky...the management is questionable tho, I agree.

    Anything else...especially balancing..is non-existent even in WOW and FF. There is no true balancing and there will never be balancing. In PWI, especially if you view purely 1v1, you have the power to completely balance that. sure, you have to regulate buffs, gears and stuff for specific classes..but you at least have the option to create balance yourself. That's something those games don't even slightly allow. If you want me to go out there and say then I will: PWI is by far the most balanced MMORPG out there. Just for the fact that you can balance it yourself, as the player. Even LoL, OW, FN, PUBG, COD, CS...they are all imbalanced. True balance is same class/stats vs same class/stats in those games cause you have no chance to optimize/tweak your stats to work around inherent class-powers/flaws. In PWI you can. Only in PWI. That is literally the only reason why I play PWI instead of any other game. They can try to create "balancing"-fixes in those games..but none of those have managed to pull that off yet. Not even in the slightest. Not for PvE and especially not for PvP, Mass or 1v1, doesnt matter.

    I don't know man, you are now saying that PWI is more balanced than a MOBA. I got tired of LoL, but one of the things that I have to admit about it, is that it was one of the most balanced and fair games out there. Sure there was some champion inbalance now and then, especially after an update for a weak. But in LoL the only things that really matter are your teamates and your own skills and teamwork. Sure some times you'll get a really nab person or trolls or someone laging, but if you remove those factors the game is all about teamwork.

    On the other hand we have PWI:
    A game that allow you to trow money at it and almost instantly gain an unfair advantage over others.
    A game that have several broken classes like sins and barbs, that can be unstoppable as long as the player have a minimum amount of common sense.
    A game that give to certain classes skills that your average player can not count, like the ones on the classes I mention before.
    A game that allow some clases to glitch others, yes in PWI duskblades, storms, seeks and others can air glitch you, stuck you in to a rock, etc and it is completly fine...

    You say that PWI is balanced 'cause you can tweak stats of the same classes and can have a fair same class vs same class, but same can be said about LoL. I can go sole mid on Ashe and find on the enemy side another Ashe and the more skilled one Will win, unless they changed something since last time I played that game.
    But from my point of view balance in a game like PWI doesn't work like that.
    Balance in a game like PWI would be either:
    All classes balanced equally, in in which case only the skill of the player would matter. In the case of PWI this is clearly not true. As example I can take my archer which is my best geared toon and go against a sin less gear than me and even less skilled (not like I am pro but at least I know my class) and get completly destroyed by said sin.. At same time I can take my +11 vit sin with aeu set and kill NP people in XNW and even if they try to gank me, I just can use ulti skill and run away… And I suck as a sin, I barely know how to play it. Are you gonna say that is balanced and fair?

    Other way this game could be balanced, and that was the system that China said it use on PWI a few years ago if I am not wrong would be a rock - paper - scissors system, this would be something like:
    A strong vs B and weak vs C
    B weak vs A and strong vs C
    C strong vs A and weak vs B

    In this case pwi also fails to deliver, since just like the previous system, there are some classes that can counter everything and can not be countered..

    Also even if what you said was true and even if you are the kind of guy that like fair and fun 1 on 1 or fair same gear vs same gear. There is also the fact that the community itself in games like this one (MMORPG) don't think like that, they like to play dirty, they like to gank 20 vs 1, they like to roll the strongest classes just to own others, they like to charge thousands of USD to have an unfair advantage, and they only say that the game and the players are unfair, when they are the ones being ganked and outgeared. :D

    Now, don't get me wrong I am not trying to bash on you or PWI as a game. Just as I said before for me there is still some fun in this game and I respect the fact that you like PWI.
    However I feel that both PWE and the Chinese developer are reaping what they sow. And that is the thing with PWI, that with all the flaws, all the unbalance, the outdated engine and all the p2w garbage, it was still a great game with thousands of loyal players from which hundreds were and some still are loyal whales spending thousands. But both PWE and the devs always neglected this title, they did plenty of things to enrage their playerbase, they ignored their players even now, they even ignore their cashers. You claim in your posts that all other games out there are worst than PWI, but at least in the community management side. I only saw 2 or 3 titles from other publishers being worst managed than this one.

    As example, on the other game I mentioned before in this same thread, the one from a Korean company, the creators of lootboxes. That game also have problems, but at least there you see the CM apologizing and explaining the reason of the problem, you also see that company compensating players everytime they do a **** up, you also see them actually baning hackers, scammers and abusers in general which shows that at least from a monetary point of view they care about their game.

    PWE on the other hand, the game could be falling to pieces and they won't do a thing. The CMs and GMs ignore the playerbase, Ignore their customers, the people from support even send you here when there is a problem. They randomly ban people that they don't like or as example, but allow the real abusers to do as they please.

    Sometimes a GM or CM saying something is better than ignoring everything, even if what they say does not please everyone.

    You actually see sometimes the mods caring more about the game than PWE employees, and mods are not even paid..
  • catgirldesucatgirldesu Fluffy Fox Posts: 993 Arc User
    I still play PWI because I can play as a fox.

    Though that one animal race in Sword and Soul was really adorable. I absolutely loved it. I quit that game because my friends stopped playing it and I have no motivation to make new ones. I’d rather just log in PWI and chill with the few friends that still play here.
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @blazerboy Kanji is still playing, just took a break. Rest is gone. Ofc alot of active PvPers quit..but that has been the case for ages and ages and ofc..not many PvPed in the first place..so if a few of them quit the game you instantly notice it..has nothing to do with the game being dead tho.

    That's what I was talking about..the amount of PvP does not reflect the activity on a server. There was literally NO PVP AT ALL on all the other server BUT Dawnglory for months on end a few years ago. DA was literally the only server with any PvP activity..and now it's dead? rofl. It's been way worse activity-wise before. For now its actually not half-bad. PvE is still strong xDDD

    @saxroll There is a reason why I didnt mention FF and WoW...I personally played both of them several times to the current gear gap and while I enjoyed it there...forget PvP, forget competition. PvE is nice and challenging..but even that gets old when the same random-Noobs keeps **** up a 3h Raid AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN..hence I prefer games vastly that offer me a possibility to solo stuff if push comes to shove. I RQ'ed both those games many times because I was forced to endure the endless incompetence of random players. IMHO, that's real cancer and now I avoid those games like the plague.

    F2P games are still a nice concept..even if they cater to whales..IF you have the possibility to earn anything ingame as well..PWI realizes that via the AH and that works quite well. There should be a rework in terms of the AH cap and all...but you can farm it all in PWI. Doesn't even take much longer compared to FF/WoW...you can farm every day for 5h in TT and keep a shop up 24/7 or get rekt by noobs in raids for the same time WITH RNG drops and loads more frustration OR military style hardcore groups..which also results in vastly more stress. PWI allows for easy solo farming, just chilling, making progress, no pressure.

    Obviously I enjoy games like this but that's just me but I think what I just mentioned is exactly what people still love about PWI, at least veterans. Games like BDO, Revelation..literally all of them are no cake-walk..not like you log in, play a month and you are max gear...no, not in the slightest..some of those have an even harder progression than PWI..and you cannot get several Passives to boost your stats like in PWI. Just G16 with all passives maxed makes your char decent and lets you even compete in PvP (tho depends on the class) and you can make yourself useful in Mass-PvP and can enjoy PvE. BDO is a good example...FF too...damn..the amount of work you need to put in to even be able to get close to endgame..welp.

    PWI's worst flaws are the lack of bugfixing and communication with the community..tho latter only applies for a while..then we get a new CM and communication returns...so it's not 100% sucky...the management is questionable tho, I agree.

    Anything else...especially balancing..is non-existent even in WOW and FF. There is no true balancing and there will never be balancing. In PWI, especially if you view purely 1v1, you have the power to completely balance that. sure, you have to regulate buffs, gears and stuff for specific classes..but you at least have the option to create balance yourself. That's something those games don't even slightly allow. If you want me to go out there and say then I will: PWI is by far the most balanced MMORPG out there. Just for the fact that you can balance it yourself, as the player. Even LoL, OW, FN, PUBG, COD, CS...they are all imbalanced. True balance is same class/stats vs same class/stats in those games cause you have no chance to optimize/tweak your stats to work around inherent class-powers/flaws. In PWI you can. Only in PWI. That is literally the only reason why I play PWI instead of any other game. They can try to create "balancing"-fixes in those games..but none of those have managed to pull that off yet. Not even in the slightest. Not for PvE and especially not for PvP, Mass or 1v1, doesnt matter.


    Yes I said Eclipse quit kanjiro was on break and last one chargeback. DawnGlory in the past year or so has just been a unbalanced Mess and it sat 3-6 months little pk skirmish have been just a joke. PvE May be active if you’re EU but for those of us on the other side of the world yea no it’s a server on life support as early as 8pm my time wtf lol? Yes let’s farm a bunch of PvE to play only arena which balance issues are just lol and for PvE dragon rushes :(

    One of the main issues we facing in PWI is the fact the very concept of an mmo is being ignored I.E. ppl doing ENDGAME instances with 10 Alts themselves to fulfill their own dailies/needs and it’s just more profitable. The fact ppl can farm Normal UP with like 4 trash Alts for debuffs and 3-4 good toons to Nuke and then glitch the end for skull/shard and get g17.5 like this (yes there’s like 2 ppl who did this and few others on TT actively doing this to get final cast now) is just rediculous why is this even possible? Oh yea Pwi PvE mechanics are as a kid marking up a wall with a crayon and ppl still **** it up lol.

    The PvE is a complete joke when you can completely do such things alone or with 1-2 other ppl and using Alts because it is more lucrative to farm this way. While many others without the capacity to do this because they didn’t buy toons, have toons given to them by ppl who quit or no time to make a rank 9 army of Alts to do this and can’t get stuff done and eventually quit because I can’t get anything done QQ. This just kills this games community faster and if anyone says this doesn’t news flash it does. You say PvE is very active but you do realize so many ppl just do it alone and defeat the very idea of playing a MMO this way it just further proves it’s not. You can defend Pwi very well as a stand-alone solo game but MMO it’s just lackluster and most of us play for friends and nostalgia
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @saxroll Why do you ignore the fact that I have even explained why PWI is the only balanced game. Ofc, by itself its broken af, but YOU CAN BALANCE IT ON YOUR OWN. NO other game allows that. Like if you are too squishy to survive basic CC-Locks from Sins and DBs? Simply apply buffs to your class, giving you breathing room and the chance to strike back eventually and would force the sin/DB to step their game up. Just an example. In other games..something like this is literally impossible and very impractical at best.

    This kind of balance is good enough for me..since anything more is utterly impossible in any game available to date :(

    Le sigh.

    There is literally handful of players on this game, who might have the in-depth knowledge of this game and could balance 1vs1s completely fairly trough stats. Even fewer who could do it for different classes. Just because you could technically do it doesnt mean you can actually do it. And you my dear Joe arent one of them.

    Your argument is invalid simply on the basis of ppl not knowing if A or B is stronger and thats for same classes - make it different classes and there really is nobody who will care enough to balance it or even know if its balanced. I think we can get to ~10% power difference with players who have good understanding of the game and formulas behind it but comparing that to LoL where 55% win rate on a champion is considered broken af is laughable.

    You are free to love PWI, thats not anything away from anybody else but calling PWI remotely balanced is just funny.

    Now, games like LoL are balanced trough extensive testing and feedback. Champion with 55% win rate is considered seriously overpowered, compare that to PWI where literally every arena team on rankings has a sin. These games arent on the same planet when it comes to balance.

    As for FF14 and WoW, their PvP aspects are vastly different from PWI and they are hard to compare but specially on WoW it comes down more to "established players who have worked their asses off should have advantage over new players". There arent same glaring imbalances of PWI classbalance on those games but trying to balance say WoW where you cant talk to the opposing faction might prove quite difficult. But I think MMORPGs arent meant to be completely balanced or what would be the point of building up your character. I do think they should be balanced on potential but trying to force new and old players on same power level is bit impossible on these kind of games.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • armoftheland33armoftheland33 Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    YOU CAN BALANCE IT ON YOUR OWN.

    Simply apply buffs to your class

    I think this about sums up both why Joe thinks 1v1s are the only thing worth anyone's time of day and also proves that pwi is in fact far from balanced.

    I never met a sin who triple sparked from stealth on me and then stopped and whispered me "Hey, be right back. Let log my barb to buff you so we can have a balanced fight. "
  • tabaloultabaloul Posts: 159 Arc User
    if dawnglory was healthy ppl like vince (ur marshal) wouldn't be listing his account for sale.
    and it's when players like him that decide to quit you realize it's the end​​
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    tabaloul wrote: »
    if dawnglory was healthy ppl like vince (ur marshal) wouldn't be listing his account for sale.
    and it's when players like him that decide to quit you realize it's the end​​

    Isn’t even subtle about it when he puts a gamertag like buritoslayer lol

    Majority of acc for sale on elitepvpers are DA toons that doesn’t scream dead server lol
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @saxroll I agree that it might just be me. You can call it a fault on my part that I assume that people that have spent equal amounts of time in this game also have the same amount of knowledge. Trust me tho, I could completely balance this game and every class vs every class in every possible scenario..even buffed. This is something I think about quite often xD However, I agree that most people would not recognize this as balance at all and would kinda destroy the purpose of MMORPG, as you have also mentioned, cause I would built my balance around knowing your class 1000%. that means that any unexperienced dude would just get obliterated, no competition at all. While it is nearly like that already and I would pretty much love this...loads of whales in games like PWI are whales because they wanna feel superior to others. A system like that would most likely kill that.

    @blazerboy trolololo burritoslayer :D :D :D lately there really is not much Mass-PvP going on anymore. Also, I guess he would only sell the acc if he gets a decent offer for it but he was only logging for PvP/Events for quite some time now anyways. Some of those people also didn't listen to me because I have warned them about this. They spent too much money, wanted to get everything done to be as OP as possible and now? Everything is done. No progression anymore...but they have spent so much money aka it gets boring and ofc, who wouldn't try to get some money back. Most people would regret spending that much money after the initial "fun phase for feeling OP" vanishes. It is always the same. people don't listen tho.

    I bet I said that hundreds of times already and I still stay true to my word. If I would've focused only my barb, then I prolly would outgear even RoarKing on TT, by far even, or maybe not, cause chances are I would've quit LONG ago. In a game like this, progression makes up a big load of the joy of playing the game..if there is no progression..welp. You just log for PvP...now if there is not much PvP anymore..you stop logging all together or, in Dawnglory's case, so many casual PvPers lost their interest due to several various reasons and Mass-PvP died down a bit. Oh, and the weather is nice atm as well and loads of people are trying new games. Close to winter we will see more activity again, especially when they introduce the next active CM to the community. Some people come back, some people won't. I doubt it will change overall..because like human nature, things tend to constantly repeat themselves. Mark my words and check the forums in 5 months. You'll see :)
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @saxroll I agree that it might just be me. You can call it a fault on my part that I assume that people that have spent equal amounts of time in this game also have the same amount of knowledge. Trust me tho, I could completely balance this game and every class vs every class in every possible scenario..even buffed. This is something I think about quite often xD However, I agree that most people would not recognize this as balance at all and would kinda destroy the purpose of MMORPG, as you have also mentioned, cause I would built my balance around knowing your class 1000%. that means that any unexperienced dude would just get obliterated, no competition at all. While it is nearly like that already and I would pretty much love this...loads of whales in games like PWI are whales because they wanna feel superior to others. A system like that would most likely kill that.

    Considering the fact you dont even agree with the formulas ppl consider set in stone nor do you seem to understand the basic math behind this game, I seriously doubt it. The math behind this game isnt hard but it takes experience to gauge proper power levels of toons and sheer work aka time to balance it. I dont know anybody who would want to spend more time balancing 1vs1 as closely as possible along stat lines than actually having it. Thats for same class, for different classes? That requires extensive PvP experience and knowledge of math behind the game.

    I honestly think best balance you can have in game like this is balancing the outcome, while most ppl would want to balance the premise but the amount of work for that would be pretty stupid. So basically you 1vs1 several times, winner gears down after each win till you reach roughly 50-50 win ratio. Its not gonna tell who is better too well but if you really just want intense 1vs1 thats the best you can get.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @saxroll I dispute most of those formulas because they are not accurate. Even if all other people on the planet believe something and only 1 doesn't..that does not mean that it's true what the masses believe, tho it would be hard to prove that I guess :)

    IF you are implying the formulas posted for Spirit..people kept forgetting diminishing returns, that's all I was ever saying.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @saxroll I dispute most of those formulas because they are not accurate. Even if all other people on the planet believe something and only 1 doesn't..that does not mean that it's true what the masses believe, tho it would be hard to prove that I guess :)

    IF you are implying the formulas posted for Spirit..people kept forgetting diminishing returns, that's all I was ever saying.

    I have done pretty extensive testing on those formulas and they are accurate enough not to matter if they are actually completely correct or not.

    As for spirit convo, I really cant remember details of the conversation nor do I care enough to dig the thread. You did however argue against spirit shards, which were still the best sharding option in the given premise. You then argued that S5 def level weapons would make spirit shards more appealing, which is the exact opposite of what they would do. Not that it matters, nobody with any brains is going to base their sharding 1 year into future when there might be couple players with said weapons on each server.

    Every single time there has been conversation regarding math on these forums, you have given some halfassed opinion with no substance to back said opinion, which has generally been idiotic given the accepted data. You then argue how you know the real formulas and whatnot, when you have never provided any formulas for public critique nor any data for that matter.

    If you dont know/understand the math, thats fine, plenty of ppl dont, just stop this exhausting theater where you keep claiming all these things as you are yet to prove any understanding over said subject.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @saxroll I have given values before but like you, I am too lazy to dig out the thread. I made hundreds of samples comparing spirit stats ranging from 1000-2000 while keeping all other stats steady and while I don't know the exact formula, the one given in the thread was just not accurate, not even slightly. It just wasn't. When people said 100 more spirit over your target is roughly 8% (in the range of 1500 upwards then I knew that's not correct, it's not even 6%.

    Also spirit is more appealing with 80 Def level weapons. Spirit scales with the amount of Def and attack level you have. I have tested this as well ofc (tho obviously I have to reduce att lvl instead of stacking def level to get something even remotely similar to an 80 def weap but even with just using a def weap the differences are noticable). The more def and att lvl you have the more useful spirit becomes..that's even reflected in the formula provides by asterelle lol. However, def lvl and att lvl do have diminishing returns as well. Hence, if you have 250 def lvl but only 1800 spirit then you gain more def by adding 200 spirit through shards compared to adding another 16 def lvl. However this also depends. If you are fighting a 290 att lvl sin then the def lvl are still better. Fight a 140 att lvl dude than the spirit shards are better. All tested. At least if they didn't ninja the calc in the last 7 months which I doubt they have.

    NO formula ever provided reflects that. Well, how can I accept them then? Sure, the differences are often minor compared to the formulas provided, I am not denying that but they are existent. Sometimes more and sometimes less noticable. Never understood why ppl made such a big deal out of it.

    But enough of that topic xD No game is perfect, not PWI, not WoW, not FF. People shall play whatever makes them happy. However, no one can state that any of those games is better than the next cause in their core..all of them are very similar.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @saxroll I have given values before but like you, I am too lazy to dig out the thread. I made hundreds of samples comparing spirit stats ranging from 1000-2000 while keeping all other stats steady and while I don't know the exact formula, the one given in the thread was just not accurate, not even slightly. It just wasn't. When people said 100 more spirit over your target is roughly 8% (in the range of 1500 upwards then I knew that's not correct, it's not even 6%.

    Also spirit is more appealing with 80 Def level weapons. Spirit scales with the amount of Def and attack level you have. I have tested this as well ofc (tho obviously I have to reduce att lvl instead of stacking def level to get something even remotely similar to an 80 def weap but even with just using a def weap the differences are noticable). The more def and att lvl you have the more useful spirit becomes..that's even reflected in the formula provides by asterelle lol. However, def lvl and att lvl do have diminishing returns as well. Hence, if you have 250 def lvl but only 1800 spirit then you gain more def by adding 200 spirit through shards compared to adding another 16 def lvl. However this also depends. If you are fighting a 290 att lvl sin then the def lvl are still better. Fight a 140 att lvl dude than the spirit shards are better. All tested. At least if they didn't ninja the calc in the last 7 months which I doubt they have.

    NO formula ever provided reflects that. Well, how can I accept them then? Sure, the differences are often minor compared to the formulas provided, I am not denying that but they are existent. Sometimes more and sometimes less noticable. Never understood why ppl made such a big deal out of it.

    But enough of that topic xD No game is perfect, not PWI, not WoW, not FF. People shall play whatever makes them happy. However, no one can state that any of those games is better than the next cause in their core..all of them are very similar.

    Considering 1100 spirit hitting 1000 spirit is (1100+1000)/(1000+1000) = 1.05 aka 5% increase according to spirit formula, I`d be surprised if you got higher results for spirit. This is the highest % increase in range you gave. If somebody claimed 8% increase they must of combined both attack and defense gain into same number, which makes sense but also might be confusing if they didnt specify they did so.

    And then we get on to a tangent, which shows you really have no clue what you are talking bout. Spirit is independent multiplier to dmg formula. I suppose one could consider spirit becoming more useful the more of other stats you got as the more stats you got the more spirit gets to multiply other things. But this is pretty silly way of thinking as all it tells us nothing first grader couldnt tells us - Multiplying bigger number than smaller one gives a bigger number than multiplying the smaller number with same multiplier.

    The interesting question is if attack level or spirit increase gives you more damage or if the opposite is true with defense levels. Asterelle provided good examples on how spirit is still better if you value the defense portion of spirit and not just attack in another thread.

    And again these examples, which just give me a headache in trying to understand how somebody, who thinks he knows everything can consistently give statements, which are as opposite to reality as this. The more attack levels somebody has over defense levels, the less relative gain they get. Opposite is true the other way around - The less attack levels one has over somebody else, the more they gain relatively from more attack levels.

    Each attack level you have over somebodys defense levels is 1% more dmg. Its the same 1% every time, you have consistent gains from attack levels, meaning your relative gain goes down each attack level. What I mean, 0->1 = 1 + (1 - 0) /100 = 1.01
    = 1% dmg increase. 100->101 = 1+ (101-0)/100 = 2.01 aka 0.01 / 2 *100% = 0.5%. But how is this consistent gains then? Glad you asked, say you deal 10k dmg with even attack/defense levels. Add said 1 attack level you deal 10.1k dmg. Add another 100 and you deal 20.1k dmg. Each attack level increased gives the same 100 more dmg.

    So you got your examples the wrong way around, 290 attack level sin and you want spirit more likely, granted 250 def levels might be high enough for more defense levels being decent - For anybody with "normal" defense levels even vit stones might be better option over defense levels. I know somebody did math regarding it when deities came out - Vit stones started to become pretty good option when defending against full deity compared to jades. This is because the attack level vs defense level difference became so great that adding jade became less and less effective.

    Ps. I`d love to see your testing as I am starting to doubt you are actually capable of mundane task like that. Anybody who has upgraded to deities can tell you how the non jaded targets dont die too much faster but jaded ppl just "melt" compared to before. Of course they dont actually "melt" but the difference in dmg is insane compared to time before deities.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    But enough of that topic xD No game is perfect, not PWI, not WoW, not FF. People shall play whatever makes them happy. However, no one can state that any of those games is better than the next cause in their core..all of them are very similar.

    At least in my case, my whole argument is not about those others games being better or worst than PWI, at least not the game itself. In the case WOW and FF the comparison would not even be fair for PWI, since this game is ftp p2w, while FF and WoW are subscription ones.
    My main problem with your initial argument is that it seems to me that you are trying to justify PWI flaws 'cause other games may or may not be flawed. Even if what you say is true and even if those game were worst than PWI (which in many cases are not) that is no excuse for PWE and China to destroy this game update after update.

    Even if the game is P2W, even if it have glitches and invalance, all that is not so much problem, specially considering the f2p nature of this game. The real problem is that both developer and Publisher do the more idiotic things with the effort to drain people from money and again, people that most likely Will not cash.

    I would say it again and this time as question to you:

    Do you think that there is any valid reason to remove g15 Helms and capes from nirvana forges to put them in the boutique at overpriced value and at some End game dungeon?

    The answer is no, even if it was abused at some point, even if 2 or 3 clueless people fall for that and buy the thing. That is not an improvement, it does not help the playerbase, it does not help their paid customers, it does not help the company, it just make them look bad. And same thing can be say about pretty much all the idiotic changes that they been doing in the last years, changes that they usually try to hide in big updates…

    And that example shows that PWI is now even worst than other games at Power Creep, since where others games make it easy for nabs to get obsolete garbage when new gear comes out, PWI make it the most tedious task to get said obsolote garbage when their end game players are already at g17 in weapons, capes, rings, etc...


    Also, the lack of response from their employees is extremely irresponsible and unprofessional. Some people here may try to use any sort of silly argument like the ones trying to act as "White knights" victimizing the GM or CM 'cause some rude person say somethig bad. Or some other people may say something like "They have no obligation to reply, is a free game, blablabla"

    All people using that as excuse are extremely clueless. At the end of the day it is not about if they are forced to reply or not and it is not about if they are forced to fix their mistakes. It is all about how much money are they losing by having that arrogant and immature attitude towards their customers. Remember that for them this not charity, is a business, so no, they are not doing any favor to the people that play their games. The players, including you are the ones actually doing a favor to them.
    If you are a casher, you are paying their salary, and even if you are completly f2p you are also helping them indirectly, since you are entertaining their whales and buying stuff that said whales buy from them, so you are indirectly helping by making cashers spend money...

    The thing what many of the people that act as PWE White knights seem to be missing is that:
    Even if some of the people attacking PWE and calling on them everytime they do something bad are rude, PWE should definitely pay some attention to their complains. It is called feedback. This does not mean that they have to do everything that said people are asking, but at least they should learn from their mistakes and stop pulling idiotic changes like the ones they did in the last updates.

    I am sorry to say this but even though I love this game, I would never recomend any title from PWE / Arc Games to any of my Friends, in fact I would recomend them to avoid this Publisher like the plague. One thing is that you like the game, the lore, the battle system, the clases, etc. Other very diferent thing is the Publisher and developer.
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