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Archer class dead?

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  • happyyearhappyyear Posts: 3 Arc User
    It is true Archers are badly nerfed from each expansion.....other games archers hits faster and way better and fun to play....I liked archer cause archer is faster and range hero.....now a days the hero has vanished into thin air....

    I used to play a game before 7 years ago where they have ultra speed hits in archer but weak dmg...we could atleast follow that...for example archer summons a hawk pet and it lasts for 2mins...for 2mins instant speed hits and crits and hawk also dd's and hawk is immune to dmg,after 2mins skill goes off and archers start to kite...we need some boost in archer all I am saying casue no archer can deal more than 3million dmg,while all other classes do 5m dmg easy ijs with +12.

    My request is...no matter what u try u wont hit high enough (pls g17gof is out of topic ik u wanted to troll and say g17 volunteerly here but its not needed cause g17 is too expensive and 1 class cant rely on g17 to be op,they rely on skills to be op)

    so all I am saying is rework on archer skills don't worry about wep or such,all archers skill are outdated (even on rainbow squad they wont prefer an archer cause no unique skills,who wants a evasion buff (BV=bm has hf better,Stormrage=sb better with cleric)so basically archers skills are useless....imagine if u have a pm full of +12 db and sb and bm and veno and seeker for ur instance,would u truthfully pick archer among all these?honest answer is no...no gof on wep no high dmg,skills sucks (only inv archer if he/she is ur friend otherwise nope..

    My request to pwi team,in future pls upgrade archer or atleast rename archer to Ranged nd give a gun or something,other games have gunners class alrdy and we still nerfing a class which is least threat to any class...pls read this 1 or 2 times before replying ty...would encourage positive feedbacks but want to negative the topic then nothing to say :)
  • soulstormersoulstormer Posts: 61 Arc User
    I'm an archer main, full deity and do have a +12 +40 atk lv GoF bow, only 3 on this server have gof bows i think and the other 2 are +70 xD.
    I agree with posts saying archers are not as weak as people make them out to be, but they are not nearly as strong as others make them out to be either. In arena, teh story follows the same script in pretty much most cases. See archer, focus them untill they are dead or have exhausted every skill lel. I still use my purge bow mostly for arena over my GoF bow simply because purging has a higher kill potential for not only me had I used GoF, but for my squad too. Also i'm the only one that can purge rofl.
    Archer's gof dmg isnt really anything special on equal footing unless you are rb1/2 NP, which I am 'nearly' at but... Astrid (:
    Yes, Zerk crit still does a lot of dmg and archers are able to cycle skills in very quick successsion now due to argent glyphs which in my opinion is their main strength atm
    I honestly think most archers, if possible should focus on trying to get their phys pen up as much as they can. Being able to have near 6k phys pen with a maxed glyph and Ulti will be what peole have to watch out for. I'm not too sure about having mag pen for metal skills, never really tested, if anyone has, lemme know xD.

    A revamp on some skills would be nice too, such as having quickshot quckshot doing dmg twice as the animation clearly shows 2 arrows launched. QS could be our equivelent to sins' Life Hunter, short cd, burst dmg.
    Winged shell is literally the worst skill so that needs to change.
    Remove or lower the chi cost of whisper shot and it would be pretty nice.
    Galvanic aura is nice, but I would prefer the 25% crit rateto be an increase in Crit dmg instead
    Ataraxia (Stealth) should imo instantly refresh teh cooldown of WoG, Alacrity and both our leaps. Buffs should not take us out of stealth. The movement debuff can stay. Would also be nice to have a preemptive strike add to it which guaruntees the first atk out of stealth to do double dmg or whatever. A lot of wishful thinking here >_>
    Just some of many suggestions xD

    One thing that really bugged me is that we are Elves and yet we do half dmg with our wings on ground targets. If anything we should do bonus dmg from any position higher than the target. OH, remember flight mastery? yh, give that as a passive for all wings, not just base wings, because we are winged elves >____>
    Maybe give us the ability to move and cast skills too, at the cost of idk, accuracy

    Despsite all teh things I can rant about, I still have a lot of fun playing archer xD, i wouldnt trade classes if given the choice

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills. It's been quite a while since I've tested this so could be different now. Since there was no announcement to that I doubt that this is the case tho.

    @setexample So you are saying that because a class is harder to play it is automatically weak? ROFL.

    Don't be like them sins that can nearly OS anything with just one skill (cursed Jail) that isn't HA and even then...it could end up instantly killing them.

    I personally view the enhanced challenge of playing a class as an advantage. Sure, it's "nice" to be able to just obliterate anything with little to no effort..but fun? Personally, I would find that very boring.

    I already said that archer got it tough..but judging from 3v3 is just senseless. Any class that is not HA dies instantly if paralyzed/debuffed and AA'ed. Not just Archer.

    3v3 arena is biased BS. If you have a squad consisting of a seeker, duskblade and Barb or a squad that consists of a cleric, archer and barb then you will have a massively harder time killing the archer than killing the duskblade since the archer will now receive support and thus can stay alive alot longer whilst you catch the DB once without genie in a decent lock and he is dead. All assuming equal gears.

    I am not talking nonsense. You guys just don't see the bigger picture and judge any Archer by himself in a 3v3 scenario which in itself is very foolish. You would have to take the exact same squad and put an archer with the exact same gear in there and put him in direct contrast with the other classes. However...each class performs differently and has different combo possibilities in regards of which other 2 classes are in the team.

    Taking anything like 3v3 in consideration for the performance and power of a single class is stupidity because you can't make any reliable judgement due to the countless factors that play a role in 3v3. Sure, there are classes that are always extremely powerful, like Assassins and Clerics (in 3v3) but sadly that does not apply to any other class.

    The only way you can measure the true strength of a class is in a direct combat with equal gears. 1v1. If both players are at their peak and have knowledge about the moveset of each other, totally equal gears (best if they have no shards or one has deity and the other josd so that it's trully equal) then the archer class has the same amount of chances of winning versus most classes than any other class has except for Assassins, Duskblades and Barbs and somewhat BMs. Caster in general are in the same boat.

    If you are wondering why I noted that josd vs josd cannot be considered equal in some cases then it's because that's the truth. Take Archer vs Storm for example. No matter the storms shards...SBs have debuffs with which they could OS any archer on selfbuffs. Doesnt matter if the archer is deity, josd, serenity, vit stone sharded. OS is OS. So if the archer is josd and lacks the damage to kill the SB fast then that increases the chances of the SB to catch the archer in a debuff combo that he will most likely not survive. Hence deity archer vs josd/deity storm would be fair. Sure a deity storm can kill an archer without debuffs..but a deity archer can practically 2 shot a deity storm on equal gears...so :D

    Things are not always just black and white and balancing isn't as simple as people make it out to be. Alot of people claim that classes are weak because they are too complicated or act as if certain classes are too strong (especially SBs since they are massively over-rated due to the inability to counter them).

    Other classes like Assassins or Duskblades are really broken and have nearly no counter to them. Granted. They are massively imbalanced in selfbuffed 1v1. However, add a little bit of buffs to the equation so that dusks can't kill you with their Quadrature-Combo alone and you might have a shot. Vs sins on equal gears (since the damage is ****) anything that isnt a barb, bm, seeker, another sin or duskblade should be max buffed (SoD + NW wine + INK) so that sins actually have to work for a victory. The sin should stay selfbuffed. Same goes for Duskblades. However, as selfbuffed dusks can be eliminated quickly by SBs and Clerics, those classes shouldnt be allowed max buffs, but just SoD will do.

    If the game doesn't offer balancing, just do it yourself. Ofc, most player are spineless ppl that don't wanna have any challenge and will refuse ofc...but oh well :D

    Please people, stop acting as if it's bad that you actually have to be a decent player for some classes...that's just ridiculous. Do it like I do. When a sin kills me from scratch with just cursed Jail, I just laugh at him for playing such a stupid class. Problem solved :D
  • asterelleasterelle Posts: 797 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills.


    I just tested this claim and it's not true. Physical penetration has no benefit for archer metal attacks.
    Proof with a lv1 bow:
    aGOaEUp.gif
    ​​
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    asterelle wrote: »
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills.


    I just tested this claim and it's not true. Physical penetration has no benefit for archer metal attacks.
    ​​

    Its a shame this testing is going to waste with Joe. Last time he was encountered with math/formulas he yelled the formulas to be wrong, how he knew the right formulas but never provided anything, only acted if he was right when math clearly showed otherwise.

    That being said, I feel most ppl assumed p.pen to not work on metal skills cause they are metal. I do appreciate you going trough testing and confirming this however.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    saxroll wrote: »
    asterelle wrote: »
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills.


    I just tested this claim and it's not true. Physical penetration has no benefit for archer metal attacks.
    ​​

    Its a shame this testing is going to waste with Joe. Last time he was encountered with math/formulas he yelled the formulas to be wrong, how he knew the right formulas but never provided anything, only acted if he was right when math clearly showed otherwise.

    That being said, I feel most ppl assumed p.pen to not work on metal skills cause they are metal. I do appreciate you going trough testing and confirming this however.

    There is a difference between people riding on formulas, completely neglecting diminishing returns and actual footage displaying pure damage xD In the former discussion..there was no proof. Just "blablabla those formulas are listed in the wiki hence they are correct" and other nonsense like that.

    As I've said, it's been ages since I've tested this. I also tested it on seeker and mpen didn't work on their metal skills as well. Usually I test with lvl1 weapons as well, could be that I forgot to do that and got the damage range confused, or they just changed it again. I don't rely on Penetration either way.

    BTW: Way to go guys. You are just like my GF. I give you a wall of text and you focus on the least important, negligible part of it xD
  • asterelleasterelle Posts: 797 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    I give you a wall of text and you focus on the least important, negligible part of it xD

    That part was the most important part of your post since it had actual implications while the rest of it was just your opinions.
    ​​
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    I wouldn't call it opinion, it somewhat is but "experience" would be more fitting.

    I struggle hard vs people that outgear me on my Archer as well. I also struggle hard vs classes that are just too tanky and can still kill due to debuffs/combos/massive CC.

    However, I do not struggle vs classes of equal gears with balanced out gear setups. Any caster that is just drakeflame stone'ed, full +10, CF set, decent chart (same as my archer just with vit stones) is 2-3 shot or maybe even just a charmbypass (with ulti). Barely imbalanced in favor of the caster.

    As this game has alot more offensive options..keeping this balance isn't really hard. If full serenity, no pattack chart'ed (so full defensive built) archer struggle vs equal geared (literally) caster then yeah, they will have a problem. Archer need to be able to put pressure on their targets. A fight vs an archer has to be in a way that you have to watch out not to die in a few shots (which is the case on real equal gears as a caster vs an archer, not even counting in GoF cause that would be nearly broken for the archer).

    What I see by the majority of the comments is that their def-built (or offensive power lacking) archer struggles to beat other classes which are def-built as well (and still the majority of people is jaded). Welp, acknowledge your weakness and work around it. Full deity, double pattack on chart and believe me...you won't struggle in 1v1s anymore and also in Mass-PvP you might be able to kill purged targets on your own. At least you won't be at a worse position than a majority of the other classes.

    For example..try killing any jaded target (equal gears +cough+) that is buffed with a jaded psy. Alone. Yeah, good luck have fun. If it wasnt for Soul of Silence..psys would have it WAY harder killing anything compared to archer. They are tankier, yes, but that's that.

    tl;dr: It is not an opinion but FACT that some class-matchups with Copy/Paste gear-setups cannot be considered equal because certain classes gain way more benefits from being extra tanky, while others have way more benefits from being purely offensive. I thought this was common sense but welp, hopefully people get it now and stop whining about their perfectly-fine class.
  • dayk0udayk0u Posts: 10 Arc User
    I am not sure anymore where this discussion goes...but I disagree with the point that have been said, mostly the "deities/p.def/g17 GoF bow" however, all of this is pretty end game gears, you don't get there just by wishing it, and it doesn't make archer class balanced the slighest, besides if you farm pretty hard for months...or cash a lot, you won't get there.


    I already sent my opinion on a balance post directly addressed to the developers, guess it get skipped by accident, but the same problems about archers stand, even now, with so many new features and outdated skills. It is not about focusing on how strong db/sins/sb are, but how small is the survavibility archers have, and besides relying on genie/pots, there's nothing too overpowered as an archer, since everything , as I said, is outdated to the current meta, honestly, archer aren't the only one which are hit by this fact, and they do fine in MASS PVP but 1 vs 1(not only the 1 vs 1 fights, you also get caught in 1 vs 1 sometimes in nw/tw/xtw, and there you can struggle, but same goes for each players, depends on situation/ressources/options you have left...and a bit on luck aswell.)

    Besides equal geared/end geared, you won't always be a threat, unless you know how to play and what you are doing, get to know most of people playing the game for over 1 year also know what archers can and cannot do, either you put pressure of them, either they run straight into your face to make you crack up, I do agree with joe on this one, personal skill do most of the fight. Moreover, fighting other class self buffed is fine, unless you are fighting an AA class, they all have a phy def skill, how usefull is an evasion buff against Arcanes?That's the kind of things that could get a reworked since it get dropped few years ago.

    At least, blazing arrow is one of the most broken offensive skill archer has, matched with barrage of arrow it's awesome to see all these def charms proc'ing together...But in the past, where archers stood as king on the Hill, they would go on rampage mode and kill most of the ennemies. Nowadays, with def charms and new passives, most of people see a barrage and run away, scared of the purge, it's not as deadly as it's supposed to be. Hence, two archers in one squad, will always do better than one, with AA'ing and a little coordination, but take an archer alone? He'll rely on his teammates and mostly assist them, I won't mention Ironwood since it's luck based.

    Being an archer is a challenge, wings protection is the most usefull skill you can use offensively/defensively with short cd and such...Besides an archer, basically every class can be annoying once you use it(from bm to cleric: Para/Silence/weapon taken away/Purge/SoG etc.) besides psy... Good luck taking down an end gear-equal geared psy without will surge, WoG won't help.
    Leaps are awesome aswell, especially with glyph.

    If you would take each skills one by one you would see most of new features are incompatible with archers being, from cooldown:
    -CD: awaken being as long as ulti, and an archer always have a good stack of sparks, but to make a combo every 5min on a battlefield?Hmm. Frost splash is a really nice combo, even though I prefer a wizz using his own skill...but this cd compared to frost arrow and deadly shot is not even justified, you really need to time this onewell , and it is really luck based. On another side Feather Armageddon is awesome a defensive/offensive skills that get you out of a lot of situation.
    - Chi cost: Stomrage eaglon , to combo it +bv and spark...either you really calc it well with genie, either you use the skill below.
    -should I mention bv cd?Even an archer can 2sparks and get ride of a 2min cd skill.),
    - Effect: sharpened tooth arrow only usefull on mobs, which is clearly irrelevant
    - Channeling? reducing bv channeling and most of the skills with glyphs is one of the good point I really like.
    -Ataraxia is actually pretty much usefull since you can barely know if the archer died/dc'ed or ran away at some point, still 2min...standing same point doing nothing but leaping is nothing.

    - I could go like this and list them one by one(guess I almost did though) , skills are clearly not into same synergy, like when game started, saying archer is "weak"(I mean the non-end geared/np ones) is a true fact if you are talking about his capacity, even if the player plays quite well, he won't get over some facts mentionned here, defense is the least an archer, even experimented, have. Knowing your weakness/strenght is a thing, relying on genie/pots due to class limitation is another.

    There for you still wonder why endgame gears don't balance a class?A player should rely on his skills, not his gears, as soon as the said skills don't offer to all kind of players, playing the same class, a survavibility able to keep it alive enough time to counter attack/survive without using extra(aka potions/genie) you can't really talk about balance, just by throwing out some powerfull equipments. IMO it has nothing to do with balancing, you're just use a very powerfull thing to counter the fact skills don't grant you survavibility, so you must get OP stuff to survive. Yet, I have nothing against people going on NP/G17 I, myself would get there if I'd be interested into endgearing my archer, it's not the case yet because he does fine. Anyways, we truly lack some upgrades toward buffs, defensively. Offensively I would not complain, I don't pratice pvp alone anymore, it's being pointless especially with coloseum, but archers are a threat to take care of first into big pvp session or .

    Archers with little more improvement, could shine even more, I still enjoy mine, penetrations is really fine, even the ulti is quite interesting, the new(glyph) metal skills and leaps do give a new breathe to the class in general. Yet again, from my POV, so many things could get added to make it better...Obviously it doesn't only apply to archers, there's still nothing against para skills and such, but more of these came out few months ago, and not being able to do anything against most of class cc/combos but pray is sure frustrating, on another hand, it stays a good challenge to see how you can handle that kind of deadly stuff.
    682099JoeAdamsPlayfixedwithrageabuseImgur.gif
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    If we are talking about non-endgame fights, especially 1v1..then you can say that the lower the overall gears -> the stronger Archer get.

    You see, the way gears in PWI scale is pretty weird. If you put a G16 wizards vs a G16 archer, both full +6, equal ornaments, etc with weapon +8 then the archer will have a way higher chance of beating the wizard since the damage output, especially if you already have all passives, a good chart and maybe some decent cards is significantly higher compared to what you deal on each other if both would be full r9, endgame ornaments, full +12. Full g16 Wizards can be lucky if they hit 20k pdef with Stone Barrier on + max 14k HP selfbuffed without endgame gears. A g16 archer can already reach upto 40k physical damage tho. Combine this with the lack of def level and you have a big problem as the caster. Sure, debuffs weight higher since the overall HP level is pretty low as well.

    At this gear level, the chances for an archer to just charm-bypass the wizard with Stunning Arrow + Quickshot + Take Aim is ridiculously high. Sure, the wiz can kill the archer very quickly too, same goes for alot of classes..but since the archer doesnt need that much time or any heavy combo to nearly kill all the other classes (cept the obvious exceptions) he can play out his advantages (range, multitude of anti-stuns, fast skills, etc). Some skills that are not bound to ridiculously high base damage values are stupid OP on lower gear levels, such as BMs Blade Tornado, Clerics Aurora Skills, etc... and yes, Frost Splash as well.

    If you are talking about being effective even with lower gears then yeah, archer are pretty useless with lower gears and especially if you don't have a purge weapon (which is available even on g13/15 so it shouldnt be a problem) since you die pretty damn fast from nearly anything. If I get attacked by a g16 archer, knowing he has no purge weapon then yeah, ofc I ignore that char. A g16 Duskblade would never be ignored, same goes for a stormbringer, veno and cleric. But this is just due to their insane skill-set/effectivity of skills that are unrelated to gears/damage. You can hardly compare an archer to them tho.

    One way or the other...if we are talking equal gears than yeah, archer is perfectly fine. You can hardly overcome better geared people and your usefullness will dwindle down to being a purge-bot if the gap is too high. Still, I completely disregard anything that isnt equal gears.

    As for the general strength...an Archer (with mainly argent glyphs on Stunning Arrow and the metal skills) can unleash a Quickshot, insta Take Aim and all 3 metal skills instantly casted within just the Stunning Arrow stun effect if Argent Glyphed with lvl5 or higher. All of those skills will be 100% crit (due to qucikshot with semi-endgame gears) (if they hit) and 4 of them are even without any def charm. IF you have the damage and deal 10k crits each shot...welp...if that isn't OP I don't know what is.

    There is a quite similar geared archer in my faction (Crisis). Sure, he has a com set and 60k+ base damage and is full deity on his archer but...he can hit my Storm for 15k crits with his ulti on. No spark, no debuff, nothing. If I get hit by that combo up there I am dead if I don't proc purify spell or have genie ready...and that combo's CD isn't particularly long. Even without ulti..thats 12k crits per hit... The average endgame caster has 26-28k HP unbuffed these days. Even if you would have full josd, pdef selfbuff..you still get hit 7k crits at least..without debuffs. Get caught in that combo with ulti and maybe trip spark and you still and up being dead if you are lucky.

    Try fighting an archer that can kill you extremely quickly and then tell me again how weak they are. Archer, which cannot put pressure on a target due to the lack of damage are negligible tho. That's just how it is.
  • fury85fury85 Posts: 259 Arc User
    On my experience (Barb), Archer is one of the class that hurt me more.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • setexamplesetexample Posts: 23 Arc User
    @jsxshadow why are you still commenting here? I already proved that your biased and talking rubbish, your constatly contradicting yourself from post to post. You dont consider hard facts and figures like others have shown you as well as me. Stop talking nonsense, go troll somewhere else, your ''opinion'' have no merit here anymore.
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    setexample wrote: »
    @jsxshadow why are you still commenting here? I already proved that your biased and talking rubbish, your constatly contradicting yourself from post to post. You dont consider hard facts and figures like others have shown you as well as me. Stop talking nonsense, go troll somewhere else, your ''opinion'' have no merit here anymore.

    Hard facts? Which? I havn't seen any in this thread aside of "QQ my class is so weak" which can be directly translated to "QQ I am a giant noob". KK, use a deity Stormbringer, which is considered so OP, and I face you with a deity archer. If you win 1 fight out of 10 you can consider yourself lucky. Give me the chance to enlighten you and to provide hard facts that will hurt, for sure.

    All you did with your comments was just a proof to show us how bad someone can be at this game despite playing it for such a long time. It was just base-less QQ. You neither have experience or skill, else you wouldn't have written that senseless garbage you call "hard facts".

    Show me just one post from anyone (aside myself) that doesnt imply the base line of "QQ I can't kill anything with my archer while I am at a disadvantage, whichever it may be." Cause that's all that thread is, really.

    Just your first post is pure, baseless QQ. Nothing more. I accept the challenge. Give me an archer that is equally geared and let me face all the classes. Really, only Duskblades and sins would be hard. Any other class matchup is easily win-able best out of 10 for an archer, IF YOU ARE A GOOD PLAYER. Since you obviously are not a good player I can understand why all of this is so hard for you. But don't worry, you can always quit the game and stop your QQing? How's that sound?

    PS: Just for lol: 4-5 good skills? Let me count! 3x Metal spam skills, Stunning Arrow, quick shot, whisper shot, aim low, Frost splash, Ulti, Blood Vow, WoG, Blazing Arrow, STA is also nice, Stealth, BotC, Awaken, Both leaps, Arrow Inferno (way too underrated) and I might've even forgotten a skill. What does that make? At least 19 useful skills. Now, list any other class (no simple DDing skills) that have just as many or even more? Good luck, mister master troll :D Even tho you don't even have to respond to me. Your incompetence and unwillingness to learn and improve is sickening me.

    Tl;dr: Archer are not weak anymore. If you think that the archer class is weak then you are either a very bad player, are delusional and think you can beat ppl that massively outgear you or you just simply like to troll. I rest my case.
  • dayk0udayk0u Posts: 10 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Hard facts? Which? I havn't seen any in this thread aside of "QQ my class is so weak" which can be directly translated to "QQ I am a giant noob".
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Show me just one post from anyone (aside myself) that doesnt imply the base line of "QQ I can't kill anything with my archer while I am at a disadvantage, whichever it may be." Cause that's all that thread is, really.

    Excuse me?I did read you back and besides saying endgear archer do that...or saying how good you are at archer, you don't really bring anything concrete to the topic. You are probably playing archer casually since you have apparently a football team of characters. So far, people I have seen talking here, are actually playing archer as main character, and you're scaring them with you walls of non sense, hence, could you let the topic be?

    You obviously don't wanna talk or face facts(and yet, I pointed out simple facts and really tried to not go further, I'm not seeing myself QQ'ing anywhere.) You are telling to people they are just QQ'ing while you are just playing your archer once a blue moon?Your experience is not legit from my eyes to talk about mechanics, you started archer roughly one year ago?You probably knew about them, but I can affirm you the game mechanics changed since 2009, and you was there....But archers are still running around with the same mechanics, and this is not the only class which should get a fresh breathe over all this dust.
    Archer mechanics didn't change that much, and I can clearly feel many people are leaving the class to more effective class/more capacities. I will say it again, endgear isn't reachable just by wishing and it doesn't make a class balanced...especially when you have more efficient classes for a cheapest price!There for, reworking a huge part of their skills could be a solution.

    Offensively, I really can't complain, especially with quickshot and metal skills....But I think you forget about your ennemies...I will write down situations which probably never occurred to you since you are obviously "a casual archer, asking for 1 vs 1 in wc and thinking archers are balanced cause full deities and g17 zerk crit bow archer are cool, whoever complain about a class doesn't know how to play it." [that's how I summary what I did read from you.]

    -Most of equal geared ennemies don't die just by metal combo(Hi Def charms/Passives/spirit/bonus from glyph system) , considering most of seekers have their metal immune on genie(which make them pretty much unkillable by metal combo) and AA players having a bazilions of mag def, unless you proc purge, you don't take them down with metal combo that easily, besides clerics relying too much on their physical shield I guess.
    -I do not consider stun arrow/aim low as killer skills anyways, after roughly 10 years, they are finally 100% accuracy!
    -Frost splash with the said problem above, you can't really use it at his 100% effectiveness, well, it is for sure usefull in pv, it is too much luck based and it goes so fast, you really need to cast it at the right moment, but even NP archers don't kill people with it.
    -Most important part of ulti actually stays the granted penetrations, it was useful aswell with quickshot (as a sage archer, I really enjoy the demon/sage version merged), nowadays I just use it to keep my target stunlocked while spamming quickshot, did happen I use the first hit and keep it for another target, just to get SoG right before it.

    -Bloob vow is a joke...The time you cast it, any LA can just two spark and get ride of it, seekers just use Quid pro, AA's weap proc'ing... it's effective but not that much, if it'd be non-purgeable or with a smaller cd, I could understand, but it's clearly too easy to just get ride of it, besides for LA class, 3 out of 12.
    -WoG- Para skills bypass the WoG Effect(db, sin, sb, barb, bm) cleric with SoG, myst with their plants(at least you can run away),a smart seeker can even control you over WoG, wizzard stealth/silent, WoG won't help you, neither against SoS buff from psy.
    Obviously you can combine leaps to WoG but it's not an absolute skill that can guarante you you will survive.Leaps themselves stay kinda tricky with this ground and his micro pixelised mountain that keep you stuck into air if you get immobilized before...I once get stun by Xiyie while leaping away(with the status), it was pretty funny in any case.

    -Blazing arrow is one of the most broken skills archer have, as said, and fortunately we have it, otherwise...even so it's not that awesome in PVE.
    -STA nice?It was nice before the Purity of essence...I would even say before FSP even came out, if you need to AA into a vortex, you will obviously use this one...but try it on a solo target and tell me how nice it is with the new passive.
    -BotC? Evasion isn't a thing anymore *sigh* and it won't make anything against AA classes neither against a fair part of bm skills...And our awesome wings of protection is even worse.
    -Awaken, already said how long cd is, doubt I need to say more about it, we have ulti, then we have awaken, then frost splash...5min cd-5min cd-3min cd.We should add elven alacrity I, endwise, we have more cd on 4 skills than skills from one race.
    -I do agree with you arrow of inferno is way too underrated especially with corrosive cold, though HP potions got upgraded and cleric using a better, quite better pumping life skill.

    Skills you forgot?Winged shell, it could clearly be based on soulforce or Hp as Asterelle once stated, but it just handle one hit, against fire combo/seeker you sure can cast it before a leap, it is still a skill (which is) supposed to prevent you from os...considering even wind can blow it up, I do use it, but I won't call it effective.

    I'm going back to my first point...Archer skills are outdated, you can still prove me wrong, since I'm bad at my class, I don't mind constructive point of view.

    PS: I'm also from Da, I am pretty much not one of the best archer around, but I guess I'm doing fine with my current gears (non-updated mypers, here we go). I also know from experience a few people who rerolled from archer(as main character) to DB/SB/anything else , like DikkeJonko/Enough/Paparazzi/RankNine, and they were endgeared, I stick to my point, in term of mechanics archer should get a revamp, not to make them more OP than they are on some situation, but just a bit more updated toward this new era...It's not only an archer problem to be honest.
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  • capnkcapnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    dayk0u wrote: »
    -Bloob vow is a joke...The time you cast it, any LA can just two spark and get ride of it, seekers just use Quid pro, AA's weap proc'ing... it's effective but not that much, if it'd be non-purgeable or with a smaller cd, I could understand, but it's clearly too easy to just get ride of it, besides for LA class, 3 out of 12.

    If I'm not mistaken, archer is the only class that 2-spark purifies for. Other classes have to 3-spark.
  • setexamplesetexample Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    @jsxshadow you havnt got a case to rest lol (''you cant even win with your sb/barb'', not my quote) how fail are you? I higly doubt you can last 30s against me but then again I woudnt even bother with fail people. I am sure you can take up my challenge against someone from your server, I am not in your server how am I meant to make that happen (also why sin and dbs hard for you, as you are such an awesome player surely you can beat them too lol). I am sure someone reading this will take you up on this.

    Back to point, this post was made so that maybe pwi can see it and update/rework some of the skills and allow people to have fun playing this calss rather than just give up and quit. Even in normal daily things archers are not wanted in squads as much as the rest of the classes, I am sure thats saying something. This post is to help this class to be in equal grounds as rest of the classes, not for gaining an advantage.

    No one is QQing besides you with your endless ''opinions'' on how stong this class is, its a fact that most archers in arena have low win %, theres a reason for it, but you refuse to see this as well other things.

    As for archer skills I am sure you are smart enough to read posts from other people here (although I doubt that too).

    Read posts from other archers and understand why they and me feel this class is weak rather than your pointless bla bla.
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    setexample wrote: »
    @jsxshadow you havnt got a case to rest lol (''you cant even win with your sb/barb'', not my quote) how fail are you? I higly doubt you can last 30s against me but then again I woudnt even bother with fail people. I am sure you can take up my challenge against someone from your server, I am not in your server how am I meant to make that happen (also why sin and dbs hard for you, as you are such an awesome player surely you can beat them too lol). I am sure someone reading this will take you up on this.

    Back to point, this post was made so that maybe pwi can see it and update/rework some of the skills and allow people to have fun playing this calss rather than just give up and quit. Even in normal daily things archers are not wanted in squads as much as the rest of the classes, I am sure thats saying something. This post is to help this class to be in equal grounds as rest of the classes, not for gaining an advantage.

    No one is QQing besides you with your endless ''opinions'' on how stong this class is, its a fact that most archers in arena have low win %, theres a reason for it, but you refuse to see this as well other things.

    As for archer skills I am sure you are smart enough to read posts from other people here (although I doubt that too).

    Read posts from other archers and understand why they and me feel this class is weak rather than your pointless bla bla.

    You have to understand that in his mind Joe is the master of everything, the one and only, the ultimate player, the undefeated one( cause he claims that everytime he got beaten was due to his adversary being lucky), the expert in every class. In fact Joe is just the forum clown.
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  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @dayk0u I don't think any of you guys have ever experienced an equally geared 1v1 vs someone that is capable of outplaying you with every single possible thing. Someone that knows your class in and out and knows what you can do in any situation of the fight. This is what is also needed from you if you wanna make any reasonable judgements about how imbalanced a class is or not.

    Most of the skills you have mentioned are very strong...IF you use it at the right time. You expect all skills to be as OP and spam-able as those BS assassin skills? Don't be fooled. Assassins are broken beyond belief. Also please don't forget that a ranged DD has certain advantages melee DDs do not have so if you would to adjust archer in a way that you most likely would see appropriate then they would be absolutely broken in many aspects of the game.

    People claim SBs are so strong, or Clerics, or Venos, Mystics, etc. ... Wrong. They are strong because you let them have your way. I've seen that many, many times. People complaining about how HoS easily blocks their combo but on the other hand they just stand there and take the beating without even considering using Will Surge, Fortify, Adrenaline Surge, HoS, SoF, Nullify Poison or Oxygen bubble. Also, most of you people seem to be heavily biased, giving the impression that you never have played any of the other classes or know little to nothing about them in general. You all act as if any other class is god-like and would easily wipe the floor with the archer class and that is not true.

    @setexample You are being delusional. You blame your class and act as if it's too weak and demand balancing when in fact, archer are the most balanced class in the game. Other classes are the ones that are imbalanced. that lack of counter-possibilities for paralyze is imbalanced. Also, why do you imply that it's hard to figure out a class in it's entirety? Do I have to play my archer 24/7 to know all combos and possibilities? Does this game seem to be that hard for you? I might get rusty for not playing that class for a few months but then I just do some sparring matches and I am back up there. However, I also have experience with any class, know how to counter anything that is counter-able in this game and for that I don't need any warm-up.

    People should finally stop thinking that you would automatically become one of the best of your class by just knowing everything about it and how to use all combos of that class. You could be the best archer there is but if you don't know how to counter what other classes can do you will still get destroyed. Focusing on one class is the single most influential mistake people do in this game. You cannot counter what you don't understand. You can't trick people or act at the right timing if you don't know the cooldowns and availability of their skills. If you are seriously not paying attention to all this and still win vs some people then, sorry to say, it's really all luck. There are points in a fight in which you can say for 99% that you will win or lose if you do it right.

    Sure, it is easy to just blame it all on me and act as if I'm some arrogant ****. Much easier than even thinking about that the fault could possibly be on yourself. Besides, you now even started to act as if I'm fail and you are better than me? Seriously? If so then tell me this. Why is it so hard for you to grasp those easy, basic concepts that I've known for years? Why do you act as if the class is so weak when in reality you just fail to counter the other classes? I can. So who's the fail? If you are chanceless vs anything that is not a Duskblade or Sin then I suggest that you learn those classes and train a bit. Learn about timing, counter-possibilities and you will realize that you can win! MIRACLE!!!

    PS: I for one am able to discuss topics objectively. I can take into account the average performance of PWI players and go off from that. I don't put into my own, subjective opinions as you may think because if you really wanna know what my personal experience is? Sure! If gears are balanced and there is a way for me to win then I will win. This is not because I am over-performing. No, no. It's because of so many biased clowns that barely know their own class hence outplaying them is easy as pie. Here are some examples:

    1. You wanna beat my Cleric without Will Surge/Adrenaline Surge? Welp, since getting through SoG/Sleep is a given I can just bombard you with DoTs and your charm will never tick. Too easy.
    2. You don't use HoS/Oxygen Bubble vs a SB and don't know that class? Sure, once AD/Faith is triggered I have 3 ways to OS you with DoTs alone.
    3. You know you are tanky enough to survive my BMs damage except for when I use HF? Why don't you use evil ward then? I could never kill you at that point (cept if you are just LA/AA, GS does the trick too :D )!
    4. You know that my Barb can hardly combo multi-paralyzes cept if ulti is ready and you know that I need para + CC + para to kill you? Why don't you use fortify to break free of my lock 99% of all times then?
    5. And so on and so on.

    Knowing other classes is tenfold more important than just knowing your own class. Don't limit yourselves and broaden your horizon and you will realize that the Archer class might not be the weakest of them all. Surely, with ridiculously broken classes like Duskblades and Assassins around, you can easily tell that they are not the strongest. Sure, but all you really want is to have a ranged Assassin or Duskblade so you can have an easy time too. You can deny it all you want but by all you guys' comments it's pretty obvious that this is exactly what you long for.

    "Archer class dead" - my backside! Then lets call all classes dead that are not Sin/DB/SB, kk? GG WP.

    I've made so many points that are just being ignored. You don't even see them, do you? Cause all you ever concentrate on in my posts is if I say anything that might make you feel attacked. My points about "equal gears are not necessarily equal" are being ignore despite them being facts (you can do the maths and probability calculations yourselves), same as my points about Archer vs other classes on lower gears and the disparity in defense and attack on different levels of gear and how they influence a class' performance.

    Tell me..what is the opinion part about those points? Why are they not facts? Because you haven't tried it/tested it yourself? Absolutely ridiculous. But please provide video footage, showcasing how weak this class is and also provide gear info, genie, glyphs, chart, cards, stats in general and I will analyze for you how many mistakes you made and what you could've done better in situation x/y or maybe how could've even won. I'd gladly do that. Then we'll see if archer fail on "equal"-territory but since none of you know what "equal" really means I doubt you ever experienced "equal" fights.

    @kalystconquerer#0876 Please don't bother CN with potential "improvements" for the archer class. sure some skills are useless and could get revamped but that doesn't mean that the Archer class is weak. There is a reason why Archer get nerfed again in the next update, ijs. If CN was to fix anything then it would be Sins and Duskblades (they do a little next update too, but more would be better). We need a counter for paralyze and we need them to reduce sins damage drastically. Those fixes would already help alot and would make it possible for even archer to beat them. People are missing the point since they just play 1 class. Tunnel vision, so to speak. They have no possibility to compare all the classes with each other. I do and I can tell you that Archer are fine the way they are. Endgame geared or not.


  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @cbmelo97 Welp, I don't have those issues since I mostly care for 1v1. Why should I not?

    In Mass-PvP you can be ultra-effective just for your purge on range. Classes like Psychics are absolutely negligible without OP gear, have little CC and can't debuff for their life's worth and also deal no damage on lower gears, especially on purged targets. Same goes for nearly any other class. My SB is partially deity and I deal 3k's on fully buffed endgame people...duh? That is to be expected on max buffs hence why purge is so powerful.

    In 3v3, really, it doesnt matter. People focus archer first as purge is dangerous and they know if you catch them without genie they are dead. However, any other class is also dead if caught genie-less in a paralyze lock + AA. Every. Single. One. Of. The. Classes. You just need a bit more damage for HA-classes but overall, no big difference there. Purge, paralyze, debuffs and you are dead. Doesnt matter if you are an archer, duskblade, sin or barb.

    Compare it to other classes. Please. For crying out loud. Personally, in 3v3, as long as I have buffs on I fear archer ALOT more than Wizards and Psychics because they don't have any special trick to kill you instantly as long as you remain buffed. Even assassins are no big deal as long as you are buffed cept if the gear difference is too high. After a purge, any debuff class can just wreck you. You also forget that Archer now have an instant 80% metal debuff that is awesome for support since alot of classes don't have such high metal def debuffs but deal metal damage themselves + It's ranged...and instant (with argent glyph).

    My archers gear/damage is garbage and I can casually hit even jaded LA classes for 10k crits each metal strike with that debuff on. No BV, no eagleon debuff. Just the normal debuff. I can hit AA classes for 7-8k crits as well on selfbuffs with that debuff + metal skills despite the massive magic defense (tho not on jaded caster since ofc my Archer is just vit stoned). I am talking about equal gears/damage index/def index. I can't see anything wrong with the damage in selfbuffed 1v1s. As for Mass-PvP and 3v3 I already elaborated on that xD
  • dayk0udayk0u Posts: 10 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @dayk0u I don't think any of you guys have ever experienced an equally geared 1v1 vs someone that is capable of outplaying you with every single possible thing. Someone that knows your class in and out and knows what you can do in any situation of the fight. This is what is also needed from you if you wanna make any reasonable judgements about how imbalanced a class is or not.

    Most of the skills you have mentioned are very strong...IF you use it at the right time. You expect all skills to be as OP and spam-able as those BS assassin skills? Don't be fooled. Assassins are broken beyond belief. Also please don't forget that a ranged DD has certain advantages melee DDs do not have so if you would to adjust archer in a way that you most likely would see appropriate then they would be absolutely broken in many aspects of the game.

    [...]

    @kalystconquerer#0876 Please don't bother CN with potential "improvements" for the archer class. sure some skills are useless and could get revamped but that doesn't mean that the Archer class is weak. There is a reason why Archer get nerfed again in the next update, ijs. If CN was to fix anything then it would be Sins and Duskblades (they do a little next update too, but more would be better). We need a counter for paralyze and we need them to reduce sins damage drastically. Those fixes would already help alot and would make it possible for even archer to beat them. People are missing the point since they just play 1 class. Tunnel vision, so to speak. They have no possibility to compare all the classes with each other. I do and I can tell you that Archer are fine the way they are. Endgame geared or not.

    You don't think I have ever experienced?I did fight g16 people to full JOSD people(like Vyrrg I believe?less than 2 weeks ago) and a bazilions of equal geared people. Some equal geared people back in time capable of outplay me?Ruby_Inferno, Seeker_King, Wicked/Erx, rorifan, DonQuihotte... I'm talking about my whole experience, and at which point most of them and me were equal geared. I believe most of people playing for years also experienced the same cases.

    Most of the skills I mentionned are supposed to be strong*, I just copied what you said about 19 skills being strong since you forgot their weakness(or didn't know about them?), aside from their long cd, the point still stands, they were realised ten years ago, I doubt we need to argue about it, do we?
    Nowhere I have been saying they should have no CD, actually, lowering them or changing their effects to make them more updated with the current meta, nothing as OP as you may think/say, even less OP like sins, but it's not a sin topic nor db right here.

    The only nerf Archers are getting are about glyphs if I recall, guess metal combo(and only argent)? If you just stick to these 2skills and quickshot...yea, rest of skills are useless, yet again, making archers sticking to 3 skills isn't giving any fun to any ACTIVE archer with outdated skills. It's not about beat sins and db, it's not like I don't care or anything, I'm just skeptical toward the effectiveness of archer skills by now and in the next future. For the little story, I do play bm, veno, sb, sin, wizz, myst, psy, seeker, cleric...never really get appealed by barb. And I doubt anyone here doesn't have at least a few alt on his own account, don't go around thinking you are the only one playing other classes to learn how they work.

    Funny fact is you are playing archer the less, but arguing the most. You can sure change your genie skills before a 1 vs 1 if you know what you are going to fight, on the other hand, to be viable , you will get the skills you need the most to not get litterally destroyed and trust on your own gameplay for the rest. I myself don't blame a class for being OP, there are some which have obviously more advantage, idk, idc, I deal with it, but the game really need improvement, and giving out ideas won't hurt anybody especially if it's for the good and not for the worse. Your self-focused opinion isn't helping anyone, I don't skip your argues, some aren't directly adressed to me, some are right and I don't argue them, some I even agreed but you won't see it either...In any case, I doubt anyone need you to Learn them how to play their class.

    @capnk Thanks! Didn't have any things under my fingers at the moment to test it out...and was definitely lazy, still nice to know, futhermore, I confused LA and HA in my post :s
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  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @dayk0u Yeah but those people you are listed (and I know how your gear progressed over the years cause I am a curious person :D) had better gears than you in most cases. Even a slight disadvantage in gear could cost you a victory as an archer. If anything, that is the biggest downside of this class. Whilst you can outplay quite a few handicaps on nearly any other class..with an archer that is not possible (at least not easily if you fight people which know how to deal with archer).

    There is also a difference in knowing skills of all classes and actually knowing how they work, how to combo with them and what options you have in terms of stacking debuffs/CC/aso. ...

    Despite all this, yes, sometimes it's frustrating playing an archer. I've been there too. I've tried fighting people with a handicap and found it impossible to kill certain classes. That is just gear tho. I am sure that on trully balanced gears you always have the chance to win or at least you will if you are the better player. Even then, losing as an archer comes easy. You gotta pay hard for every mistake you make. You have nearly no breathing room. Yes, I know that. Personally, that just means that this class is less comfortable than others and a bit more difficult to master.

    As I love challenges I ofc enjoy playing on my archer alot but I am very limited to do so. As I can tackle nearly any other player on my Server with my Barb, Storm, Duskblade and cleric I find myself having a hard time to overcome gear differences on my Archer, simply because my damage output is too low and thus I cannot put pressure on certain people. However, every single time I've fought someone with equal or lower gears than my archer, even duskblades and sins, I didn't really have a problem in winning some fights. Surely not all of them because luck is still a factor (thank god that's reduced at least now!) but I got my chances.

    I killed a near endgame stormbringer on my then-g16 Duskblade. Something like that would be impossible for an Archer but why bother? If it's just gear..then don't worry about it. Take it as it is and don't feel bad. Look for opponents with more balanced gears and then you will have fun. Pounding on overgeared ppl with an archer is truly no fun, I agree.

    You also gotta look at what archer have gotten over the past updates. Before Homestead...No knockback. Aim Low failed, Stunning Arrow Failed, No ulti, no combined Quickshot, no insta-cast Metal skills (which only lost 10% of damage on average compared to the versions before), no anti-stun on leaps, etc etc. So you see, alot has happened to this class and all of those changes have been absolutely great. I still remember the time before the update and if you think it's painful now you should've seen it back then :D
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    I am curious to know how many people really bother to read Joe´s walls of text anymore.
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  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    I am curious to know how many people really bother to read Joe´s walls of text anymore.

    Well if people would instantly understand it I wouldn't have to write that much. When connections cannot be made through common sense I start pointing out every itsy-bitsy detail of it until people finally get it. Don't wanna complain cause I actually like typing that stuff, it keeps my fingers trained and it keeps my English fresh, o to speak.

    All I am saying is that archer are not as weak, especially in comparison to other classes as well.

    PS: BotC is amazing in 1v1s vs melee classes and even other archer. I don't know how many times that skill saved me. Vs caster eva is hardly needed since they are an archers least problem.
  • bestdusk#2943 bestdusk Posts: 18 Arc User
    I recently (past few months) have stopped playing my archer and started to gear a db, I enjoy the game a lot more now. Db works better for what I want to do and its more effective for the price, both are average gear at about r9s3 +10 or so. I just didn't enjoy archer anymore and figured that cn wouldn't be buffing them with the things they need.
  • setexamplesetexample Posts: 23 Arc User
    I recently (past few months) have stopped playing my archer and started to gear a db, I enjoy the game a lot more now. Db works better for what I want to do and its more effective for the price, both are average gear at about r9s3 +10 or so. I just didn't enjoy archer anymore and figured that cn wouldn't be buffing them with the things they need.

    I am glad your enjoying the game and that is the case for most archers now days. I hope pwi will see/understand this sooner or later.

  • booker27booker27 Posts: 167 Arc User
    setexample wrote: »
    I hope pwi will see/understand this sooner or later.

    PWE has no devs only china does and if archers are fine in china then they will not get any updates especially not pwi specific ones. It sucks but thats how it is and we gotta deal with it.
  • setexamplesetexample Posts: 23 Arc User
    booker27 wrote: »
    setexample wrote: »
    I hope pwi will see/understand this sooner or later.

    PWE has no devs only china does and if archers are fine in china then they will not get any updates especially not pwi specific ones. It sucks but thats how it is and we gotta deal with it.

    That is true but pwi staff from here relay information to them, so hopefully some of our concerns will get to them in time. Change doesnt happen over night and if we just stay quiet it wont happen at all.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    This thread turned out pretty exactly as I expected.

    Experience Joe has with archer is flawed. He keeps talking bout equal gears and admits his archer is geared like garbage and yet fails to see the point he even touched himself. The higher gear level, the less kill pressure archer has. Basically he is experiencing that sweetspot of +12 offences vs +10 defenses. When ppl who complain have to deal with +12 defenses with the same +12 offensive options. Your damage is simply garbage and in order to kill anything even selfbuffed you kinda want deities, which makes you extremely squishy.

    The point where Joe said how he hits LAs for 10k crits with metal combo just made me outright lol. You do realize purged LAs have 30k+ hp? AAs are 25k+ if I`m not mistaken. And you got CDs to deal with meaning you would have to deal full metal combo on already debuffed target to kill your target if they arent charmed. Much OP!

    Lastly, most ppl arent as obsessed with 1vs1 as Joe is. Very limited amount of ppl bother themselves with class specific genies, making lots of his points just irrelevant. This game is not designed around friendly 1vs1s where you can pick perfect setup beforehand. You simply wont have room for most of them on allaround genie, which is what 99% of PvP on this happens in.

    Edit: Dont get me wrong, archer is better off than it has been in ages but it still deserves a proper rework.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @saxroll However, as gear progresses up until max gears archer become stronger and stronger..heck nearly absolutely broken.

    2nd rb NP, full devil stone, G17.4 with GoF, 2xpattack max apti/level chart. Offensive powers rise alot higher than defensive powers as gear improves to the maximum. I can imagine why CN nerfs the metal skills with the next update cause anything that doesnt have even remotely compareable skills will get evaporated by such an archer in a few moments.

    And no, defensives and offensives have been equal in the fights I had. Vit stones vs drakeflames for example. Only way to improve for both players would be using josd instead of drakes and deity instead of vits. Now add survi due to refine and damage from chart and you are in an even better position as an archer. While you had to overcome decent pdef shards with no extra attack you now balance out the added shards completely. Hence you deal even more damage.

    Yes I speak mainly for 1v1 because mass pvp...use stun + aim low as ranged support, support with metal debuff as well and purge. Anything else is not needed. So what you cant kill fully buffed engame players alone? Neither can most of the othwr classes.

    In 1v1 I have no trouble surviving even vs people that heavily outgear me.Sure dealing enough damage to kill them might be a problem but asuming I catch up in terms of gear and go full deity I wilö stand there with loads more damage and even more defense and HP compared to +10 vit stones xD
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    @saxroll However, as gear progresses up until max gears archer become stronger and stronger..heck nearly absolutely broken.

    2nd rb NP, full devil stone, G17.4 with GoF, 2xpattack max apti/level chart. Offensive powers rise alot higher than defensive powers as gear improves to the maximum. I can imagine why CN nerfs the metal skills with the next update cause anything that doesnt have even remotely compareable skills will get evaporated by such an archer in a few moments.

    And no, defensives and offensives have been equal in the fights I had. Vit stones vs drakeflames for example. Only way to improve for both players would be using josd instead of drakes and deity instead of vits. Now add survi due to refine and damage from chart and you are in an even better position as an archer. While you had to overcome decent pdef shards with no extra attack you now balance out the added shards completely. Hence you deal even more damage.

    Yes I speak mainly for 1v1 because mass pvp...use stun + aim low as ranged support, support with metal debuff as well and purge. Anything else is not needed. So what you cant kill fully buffed engame players alone? Neither can most of the othwr classes.

    In 1v1 I have no trouble surviving even vs people that heavily outgear me.Sure dealing enough damage to kill them might be a problem but asuming I catch up in terms of gear and go full deity I wilö stand there with loads more damage and even more defense and HP compared to +10 vit stones xD

    How are you getting NP nowdays though w/o promo? Thats right, you arent. Good for the 5-10 archers that happened to have gotten it before promo went away but for the rest of us not exactly an option so throwing 2nd RB NP around is kinda pointless. As for rest of it, you`ll end up so squishy a LA melee class needs to **** near you and you drop.

    No the offensive/defensive powers havent been remotely same. You have the buffer of vit stones, deities are in fact significantly squishier. Sure, you`ll also hit the target slightly harder as a result of them losing the p.def from drakes but the extra hp from refines will more than make up for it. As I said earlier, the higher the gear goes, the better defenses usually get. As a result you will struggle quite a bit more to kill ppl despite having deities because their hp pool just increases so much from +10 to +12 or least I dont really see drakes on +10+ refines.

    There are least 4 classes who can easily dumpster fully buffed endgame people. I am sure there are other classes on top of those who can do it too but I dont want to derail this convo into argument on which class can do what. I did however say you kinda want deities to kill selfbuffed ppl, I didnt talk bout fully buffed endgame toons and you bringing up other classes struggling to kill fully buffed endgame toons is nothing but a strawman.

    Lastly, I dont think anybody exactly complains bout archer defenses. They arent great but with mobility you got you really shouldnt be dumpstered too easily outside of couple classes. The main problem is we lack dmg output to assert pressure in PvP to be a DD class. If you dont have the dmg to kill your opponent, you are never going to win the fight, it doesnt matter how long you survive.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

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