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Twin Strike And Puncture Wounds Abnormal Inflation fix (Urgent)

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  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,621 Arc User
    If pwi would just scale down elimination / cursed jail damage we wouldn't have these issues :c
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • iamnotnormaliamnotnormal Posts: 66 Arc User
    PEOPLE ARE ASSUMING that im a pill baby. lol .I've been playing since JANUARY 2017. i came to 100 even b4 the freakin pills came out. its useless. i rb1 level 50 when the pills came out. For people assuming that THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND TO PLAY FSD WITH? UR WRONG? there are no people to play around.(mostly 5-10 fsd squads get form everyday and gets stuck with axes. 70% of them gets finished since im with most of them. mostly missing bm and what not same as fsj. a lot of missing bm.) Our time and YOUR time is different. You can't even find TT squads now. you also can't find LUNAR squads now. People r assuming the game is the same when they started. plenty of people to go around. But sadly no. People rather form fsj than TT, or lunar. Since 99% of people already got their gears. They can farm their alts gear easier since. A LOT of them have r9., lol. people also assumed that I didn't form my fsd squad. ur wrong again. i form fsd squad. its not like THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE. You will still get the same people since ur guildie and 99% of people wont do fsd since fsj is easier for r9 peepz. btw. FSJ is a lot easier coz r9 people often don't do it with their alts they do it with their main. I can say. there is abt. 15 people that really plays fsd and others r just alts of someone.
    Before u post stuff in here.. MAKE SURE YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW. AND SEE THE THINGS INSIDE THE GAME INSTEAD OF POSTING USELESS COMMENTS IN HERE. HOW CAN YOU SEE STUFF IF UR LOOKING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

    would i post in here. if i didnt try to farm tt by myself and a nub squad with the same gears as mine.
    as people saying stuff abt possible or not. YES its possible. that is if u max ur all ur primal skills . max ur cards and nuemas. and got 2k spirit. 2000/40 = 50 = 50% more damage to monsters and 50% less damage received from monsters for solo. and squads with same gear as tt90 or tt99 as me. took abt 45 mins to 1 hr ++.



    Thank you for greenfire, kyoske, eirghan for the supportive post.

    fyi. i can't fix arrogance even if im a doctor.
  • nightmare201nightmare201 Posts: 50 Arc User
    PEOPLE ARE ASSUMING that im a pill baby. lol .I've been playing since JANUARY 2017. i came to 100 even b4 the freakin pills came out. its useless. i rb1 level 50 when the pills came out. For people assuming that THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND TO PLAY FSD WITH? UR WRONG? there are no people to play around.(mostly 5-10 fsd squads get form everyday and gets stuck with axes. 70% of them gets finished since im with most of them. mostly missing bm and what not same as fsj. a lot of missing bm.) Our time and YOUR time is different. You can't even find TT squads now. you also can't find LUNAR squads now. People r assuming the game is the same when they started. plenty of people to go around. But sadly no. People rather form fsj than TT, or lunar. Since 99% of people already got their gears. They can farm their alts gear easier since. A LOT of them have r9., lol. people also assumed that I didn't form my fsd squad. ur wrong again. i form fsd squad. its not like THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE. You will still get the same people since ur guildie and 99% of people wont do fsd since fsj is easier for r9 peepz. btw. FSJ is a lot easier coz r9 people often don't do it with their alts they do it with their main. I can say. there is abt. 15 people that really plays fsd and others r just alts of someone.
    Before u post stuff in here.. MAKE SURE YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW. AND SEE THE THINGS INSIDE THE GAME INSTEAD OF POSTING USELESS COMMENTS IN HERE. HOW CAN YOU SEE STUFF IF UR LOOKING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

    would i post in here. if i didnt try to farm tt by myself and a nub squad with the same gears as mine.
    as people saying stuff abt possible or not. YES its possible. that is if u max ur all ur primal skills . max ur cards and nuemas. and got 2k spirit. 2000/40 = 50 = 50% more damage to monsters and 50% less damage received from monsters for solo. and squads with same gear as tt90 or tt99 as me. took abt 45 mins to 1 hr ++.



    Thank you for greenfire, kyoske, eirghan for the supportive post.

    fyi. i can't fix arrogance even if im a doctor.

    Pills have been out since last year. But yeah the game is really difficult for new players who can't/aren't able to spend the money to gear up. To be honest I remember awhile ago the sin skills being significantly cheaper, but others are saying they were super expensive so I might just be remembering wrong.
  • rieihdiusrieihdius Posts: 468 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    PEOPLE ARE ASSUMING that im a pill baby. lol .I've been playing since JANUARY 2017. i came to 100 even b4 the freakin pills came out. its useless. i rb1 level 50 when the pills came out. For people assuming that THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND TO PLAY FSD WITH? UR WRONG? there are no people to play around.(mostly 5-10 fsd squads get form everyday and gets stuck with axes. 70% of them gets finished since im with most of them. mostly missing bm and what not same as fsj. a lot of missing bm.) Our time and YOUR time is different. You can't even find TT squads now. you also can't find LUNAR squads now. People r assuming the game is the same when they started. plenty of people to go around. But sadly no. People rather form fsj than TT, or lunar. Since 99% of people already got their gears. They can farm their alts gear easier since. A LOT of them have r9., lol. people also assumed that I didn't form my fsd squad. ur wrong again. i form fsd squad. its not like THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE. You will still get the same people since ur guildie and 99% of people wont do fsd since fsj is easier for r9 peepz. btw. FSJ is a lot easier coz r9 people often don't do it with their alts they do it with their main. I can say. there is abt. 15 people that really plays fsd and others r just alts of someone.
    Before u post stuff in here.. MAKE SURE YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW. AND SEE THE THINGS INSIDE THE GAME INSTEAD OF POSTING USELESS COMMENTS IN HERE. HOW CAN YOU SEE STUFF IF UR LOOKING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

    would i post in here. if i didnt try to farm tt by myself and a nub squad with the same gears as mine.
    as people saying stuff abt possible or not. YES its possible. that is if u max ur all ur primal skills . max ur cards and nuemas. and got 2k spirit. 2000/40 = 50 = 50% more damage to monsters and 50% less damage received from monsters for solo. and squads with same gear as tt90 or tt99 as me. took abt 45 mins to 1 hr ++.



    Thank you for greenfire, kyoske, eirghan for the supportive post.

    fyi. i can't fix arrogance even if im a doctor.

    I actually have to agree with you on this. sadly most of the people that remain on our version are the old players, many of them are either cashers, merchants or hardcore farmers, and many of those have the mentality of someone that thinks that everything is the same or even easier than before.

    While is true that leveling is easier than before due more exp on quests, hypers or even the pills, getting decent gear is way harder now, this mainly due a lot of people quiting this game and also almost no one new joining. But one of the most overwhelming things for a new player on this game (and many others) is the insane gap that they see between them and old players or cashers, and the huge amount of either real money or coin + the time needed to just be able to have decent gear.

    I know I will sound negative on this but if i was a new player, like a really new one with no knowledge about anything, I would test it and most likely quit a few days after if not the same day. On the other hand with the Knowledge I have
    (playing years on this) If I had to start from zero today on the state this game is I would not even bother with it.

    The true that many of the veteran players love to ignore about this game is that just as you said things are not like before, there is almost no new players doing old instances, farming old gear or merchanting stuff like the old days.

    The sad true about this game is that if a new player really want to get some decent gear, especially pvp one, The only options I see nowadays are:

    - They cash like crazy what is not usually something a new player would do, in fact most of the casher are old players.
    - They abuse stuff (aka those guys with 70 jolly bots using illegal programs) with the risk to get perma banned.
    - They try to get an initial amount of money and with that start merchanting which can actually be a good idea, only problem is the competition, it would be really hard to compete for a new player on a semi dead game full of people that have more money and exp than them.
    - Or they need an insane amount of time to get a decent amount of coin by doing jollys the honest way.
    By doing Jollys the honest way is indeed posible to get a decent amount of coin in a few months. However by the time those people may save a good amount they most likely have already quit the game.

    I know some people will most likely quote this wall of text to disagree by saying everything is easy.
    However they should keep in mind that I say this as someone who already have one r9 main + several g16 alts.
    I did spend lots of time on this game and know my way on it, so of course for someone like me would be easy to gear another character (at least g16).

    But just as @greenfire312 said, It is not about us the old players during the old time. It is more about new players on a semi dead game with pretty much no one to farm with or sometimes not even some one to do bhs with.

    If this game was maybe like 3 or 4 years ago I would agree with them, but as the OP said things are different now.



  • capnkcapnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    Before someone is saying that I wrote all this because I have endgame gear I just want to add that not one of all my characters even has a 5 A-card set and I have been farming FSP and JFSP since it came out. Not talking about 6 A-card set or S-card set. I dont even have a 5 A-card set on any of my chars.
    At what point did OP say he wasn't doing culti, or was putting it off until he gets TS/PW? At what point did he even mention CoM/WoA/NP? See, this is what I'm talking about - you see one person asking for one specific thing to be easier (not even that - only as easy as the other classes already have it), and you start making assumptions about his work ethic or lack thereof.
    It has nothing to do with what you farmed or when. Quite literally, it's not about you. I could read you a litany of every skill and gear piece I farmed and/or farmed the money for when it was way more expensive then today, but guess what? It's not about me either. It's irrelevant, because the OP is not asking for anything on a silver platter. Your continued insistence that he is shows that you are missing the point on a fundamental level.[/quote]

    Apparently you missed the OP's other topic. He's been playing for 5 months and thinks he's endgame. He has no concept of what an endgame sin actually is. Reducing the price of getting skills is a reasonable request. But besides that, yes he is asking for things on a silver platter.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi/#/discussion/1207223/stealth-is-useless-end-game

  • capnkcapnk Posts: 486 Arc User
    At what point did OP say he wasn't doing culti, or was putting it off until he gets TS/PW? At what point did he even mention CoM/WoA/NP? See, this is what I'm talking about - you see one person asking for one specific thing to be easier (not even that - only as easy as the other classes already have it), and you start making assumptions about his work ethic or lack thereof.

    It has nothing to do with what you farmed or when. Quite literally, it's not about you. I could read you a litany of every skill and gear piece I farmed and/or farmed the money for when it was way more expensive then today, but guess what? It's not about me either. It's irrelevant, because the OP is not asking for anything on a silver platter. Your continued insistence that he is shows that you are missing the point on a fundamental level.

    Apparently you missed his other topic. He's been playing for 5 months and thinks he's endgame. He has no concept of what an endgame sin actually is. Asking for a reduction in the price of acquiring skills is a reasonable request. But besides that, yes he's asking for things on a silver platter.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi/#/discussion/1207223/stealth-is-useless-end-game
  • sontzusontzu Posts: 962 Arc User
    Pills have been out since last year. But yeah the game is really difficult for new players who can't/aren't able to spend the money to gear up. To be honest I remember awhile ago the sin skills being significantly cheaper, but others are saying they were super expensive so I might just be remembering wrong.

    Pills have indeed been out since the Nightshade expansion.

    The difficulty curve/hump/random shape for new players is not easy to compare directly with the "old days".

    Yes, new players get free gears and free levels it took me a year to farm back in the day; flipside is power creep means endgame gear is at least as far away from tt99 as it used to be from NPC gears back then.

    Coins again, they keep mucking around with it, nerfing dq etc etc and boosting from 80+ q's then nerfing, I mean, omg make up your damn minds. At least if you're prepared to do JoJ on a few alts you can easily make up for that, but inflation probably has been stronger than the growth of coins from questing, even if you religiously pick up every coin dropped from mobs.
    You don't need to be r9 to effectively farm tt, just lower your sights from farming gold mats to green. You CAN make money with a full-free-tt99 pill-baby farming those.

    Maybe your trouble finding squads is a time of day or server thing; I never have an issue on DA except sometimes Sunday mornings when UK and Europe are still asleep and US drunk and about to sleep.

    The sin skills in question here only got crazy expensive with the Primal expansion. Prior to that, most sins wouldn't even bother to level them up, they were that useless. To a lesser extent the same applied to a few other skills on other classes; it just didn't get quite so farbot extreme.

    Let's face it though, price is always a balanced equation between supply and demand, and the only time the market swings big time is when one heavily outweighs the other.

    Personally, I think an OP skill should be expensive. There are enough annoying OP sins already, you want more? Make it cheap enough and the only class anyone will play will be sins. Or DBs. They are broken OP too, apparently. And SBs. Even seen people qq about bm being OP...

    The long and short is, this is a pay-to-win game and has been for most of its life. In the overall cost of making a truly endgame toon, a couple of hundred million coins is a drop in the ocean
    Sparafucile - Harshlands Dawnglory... pfft
    *satirical image removed by pwi*
    Sparafucile: Sweetiebot, ppl is NOT a word
    Sweetiebot: Your face is not a word
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    capnk wrote: »
    At what point did OP say he wasn't doing culti, or was putting it off until he gets TS/PW? At what point did he even mention CoM/WoA/NP? See, this is what I'm talking about - you see one person asking for one specific thing to be easier (not even that - only as easy as the other classes already have it), and you start making assumptions about his work ethic or lack thereof.

    It has nothing to do with what you farmed or when. Quite literally, it's not about you. I could read you a litany of every skill and gear piece I farmed and/or farmed the money for when it was way more expensive then today, but guess what? It's not about me either. It's irrelevant, because the OP is not asking for anything on a silver platter. Your continued insistence that he is shows that you are missing the point on a fundamental level.

    Apparently you missed his other topic. He's been playing for 5 months and thinks he's endgame. He has no concept of what an endgame sin actually is. Asking for a reduction in the price of acquiring skills is a reasonable request. But besides that, yes he's asking for things on a silver platter.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi/#/discussion/1207223/stealth-is-useless-end-game

    But this is not about her other thread. And no she is not asking for things on a silver plate. She is not asking for the skill to be given to her for free. And she is not asking for free gear. All she is asking for the skill to drop more or to drop on other bosses.
    giphy.gif



  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    I think it's reasonable for a class to not have to pay 100m to get a skill. On mystic I pretty much paid that much to get ALL skills complete.
  • lichtfuerstlichtfuerst Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    PEOPLE ARE ASSUMING that im a pill baby. lol .I've been playing since JANUARY 2017. i came to 100 even b4 the freakin pills came out. its useless. i rb1 level 50 when the pills came out. For people assuming that THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND TO PLAY FSD WITH? UR WRONG? there are no people to play around.(mostly 5-10 fsd squads get form everyday and gets stuck with axes. 70% of them gets finished since im with most of them. mostly missing bm and what not same as fsj. a lot of missing bm.) Our time and YOUR time is different. You can't even find TT squads now. you also can't find LUNAR squads now. People r assuming the game is the same when they started. plenty of people to go around. But sadly no. People rather form fsj than TT, or lunar. Since 99% of people already got their gears. They can farm their alts gear easier since. A LOT of them have r9., lol. people also assumed that I didn't form my fsd squad. ur wrong again. i form fsd squad. its not like THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE. You will still get the same people since ur guildie and 99% of people wont do fsd since fsj is easier for r9 peepz. btw. FSJ is a lot easier coz r9 people often don't do it with their alts they do it with their main. I can say. there is abt. 15 people that really plays fsd and others r just alts of someone.
    Before u post stuff in here.. MAKE SURE YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW. AND SEE THE THINGS INSIDE THE GAME INSTEAD OF POSTING USELESS COMMENTS IN HERE. HOW CAN YOU SEE STUFF IF UR LOOKING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

    would i post in here. if i didnt try to farm tt by myself and a nub squad with the same gears as mine.
    as people saying stuff abt possible or not. YES its possible. that is if u max ur all ur primal skills . max ur cards and nuemas. and got 2k spirit. 2000/40 = 50 = 50% more damage to monsters and 50% less damage received from monsters for solo. and squads with same gear as tt90 or tt99 as me. took abt 45 mins to 1 hr ++.

    Thank you for greenfire, kyoske, eirghan for the supportive post.

    fyi. i can't fix arrogance even if im a doctor.

    SERIOUSLY
    I PLAY THE GAME
    Just after reset I did 3 JFSP runs, no problems occured. 1 with my friends and 2 with my alts in random wc-squads. On one of the random squads I even encountered a pill baby running around with tt99 gear.
    And just now I logged on and got another JFSP run without problems again.
    So this again shows how you dont know this game and it seems you are playing something else because I dont seem to find any problems to do my JFSP runs.
    And with JFSP being Master BH I got 2x 2m from it, which is pretty good.

    See you are complaining about a 45-60min tt-run thats not too bad, when I was running tt it sometimes reset on us.
    And again you think the average person playing pwi has 2k spirit, that just shows how little your knowledge about this game is, even my main does not have 2k spirit.
    People have been running the normal instances without primal passives, nuema and cards.

    You say you cant find tt-squads or lunar-squads, that is a blatant lie!
    People need Lunar for their new cultivation and tt for their oht-key and Homestead quests. Of course it is not as many as fsp, but that is a given since fsp is the main instance people are running atm.

    Why should I go and make a new character and level it like I would have no main? It makes no sense to tell people to not use what they have.
    Because 99% of the time I see people counter-whining about people who allegedly whine for handouts, they've all had an endgame char for years and don't have any idea how bad it is for newbies these days. I'm suggesting it to you so you can take a walk in the guy's shoes before you assume too much about his work ethic.

    Go read her other thread about being invis for everyone, despite being low level, if that is not wanting things on a silver platter I dont know what is then.

    Do I want to see more sins? Not particularly. Doesn't mean I want the ones we have spending several hundred mil more than any other class. Ideally, we'd give them the books easier but also nerf them considerably.
    Instead of getting so focussed on these skills he should honestly try to get better gear, or get his culti done.

    Running JFSP and normal BH is no problem. And tbh fsp-coins getting lower is not a problem either. Use them yourself to make you stronger. We all have to find some ways to make coins in this game and yes sometimes its just killing mobs to get coins. I see a lot of people not even bothering picking up coins, when they kill stuff.
    Go do cube, it is still money there or go into NW. Of course you will not get as much as other people but thats asking for too much to get the same amount of rewards.

    I am not extrapolating too much, because I had to go through a lot of hardship to get what I have and still dont have all the things that I want.

    By your logic should we not make it so everybody gets a crown of madness and wings of acension? And if we are at it already why not give everyone Nuema Portal 2x reawakened and r9r4 +12 and JOSD or the new +3 att/def level stones, because they are really hard to get and its too expensive to get them.

    Edit2:
    Before someone is saying that I wrote all this because I have endgame gear I just want to add that not one of all my characters even has a 5 A-card set and I have been farming FSP and JFSP since it came out. Not talking about 6 A-card set or S-card set. I dont even have a 5 A-card set on any of my chars.
    At what point did OP say he wasn't doing culti, or was putting it off until he gets TS/PW? At what point did he even mention CoM/WoA/NP? See, this is what I'm talking about - you see one person asking for one specific thing to be easier (not even that - only as easy as the other classes already have it), and you start making assumptions about his work ethic or lack thereof.

    It has nothing to do with what you farmed or when. Quite literally, it's not about you. I could read you a litany of every skill and gear piece I farmed and/or farmed the money for when it was way more expensive then today, but guess what? It's not about me either. It's irrelevant, because the OP is not asking for anything on a silver platter. Your continued insistence that he is shows that you are missing the point on a fundamental level.

    And again go read the other thread.


    Why do you think I mention all the OP stuff in my comment?

    BECAUSE THE SKILLS SHE WANTS MAKE SINS OP

    So i dont see anything wrong with OP stuff being expensive.
    BTW these skills are in the bidding hall, so here we are again with how to make money.
    Of course there is no way to make billions over night on his game except cashing, but 100m is farmable in 2months tops.
    What I base that on is that she is running cube everyday and sells the necklaces at 55m(current price on the market).
    In 2 months you get 4 necklaces with 1 tt99 character easily SOLO. Sell all 4 and you should make a profit of 100m+. So tbh it is not too hard to get 100m for one skill which makes you OP.
    If she is doing other stuff too she will get 100m way faster, but it still depends on her and ONLY her alone.

    I just think you are being hypocritical about "old" players.

    I am curious if OP did join a fac and asked for help or something like that, because I have alts in non-tw factions and the higher geared people there are helpful af and do fsp/jfsp together with the new/undergeared people, or help them out anyway they can.

    It just seems glaringly obvious to me that OP doesnt want people to give advice but just get what she wants.
    You know what I am just starting a fking pill baby now and see how I farm 100m in less then 2months with tt99 gear, because I dont need to even rb to get that kind of coin with one char. All im gonna do is auto cultivate, bh and run cube, because rb is not needed to make money.​​
    Post edited by phantomforce#4598 on
  • kwixxy1kwixxy1 Posts: 7 Arc User
    I find it quite sad that OP points out a real issue (though maybe not in the most refined way ever) and everyone jumps on the person accusing them of wanting things to be easy, on top the guy/girl gets jailed by the mods. *sigh*

    It's not about wanting things to be easy it's about facts. The facts being that 80% of every class's skills are worth 1m or less per skill and remaining 20% range at less than 10m. With tokens being at 10k for a very long time and obp and pof being down to 30-40k for almost two years, getting sage/demon skills has never been easier or cheaper. I get where everyone's coming from, yes in the past obp and pof weren't cheap and getting even the basic skills was expensive - even more so because back then you'd need to pay coins to lvl them to 10. However even with things how they are twin strike and puncture wound are way too expensive in comparison to the rest of the skills of any other class.

    Sure the skills have a lot of merit but then again so do other class skills that are not nearly as expensive. It really makes no sense that out of all classes sins would need to struggle so much for basic skills. And yes they are basic because with aps removed a sin without elimination/life hunter can't really do much to bosses in FSP other than subsea/earthen rift.

    It's the same case with psychic's spirit blast and aqua impact, but because psychics aren't as popular as sins and those two skills are not as good as the sin ones their price isn't as high, so you can easily find them for 15m or less (at least on my server). And that still leaves sins to be the only class with such an issue of having to pay over a 100m just for two skills.

    From a perspective of a new player that for example started playing a week ago it would take them over 3 months(or more) to just gather up the money to buy twin strike and puncture wound provided they didn't charge. Any other class wouldn't have the same issue and could use that money towards their gear which puts sins behind other classes if they decided to get their basic skills and not their gear first.

    And as far as the 30g bookclip in boutique goes I'm just gonna be honest and say that only someone with no basic knowledge of this game's economy would ever buy that. Other than the one for sin's twin strike and puncture wound the rest are just simply overpaying for skills that are worth about a mill or so.
    Also @kalystconquerer#0876 if you could still farm those skills in SoT/Aba there wouldn't be a need for a post like this because for one it's far easier for any class to farm a skill from there than it is in FSP.

    To OP @iamnotnormal my advice to you is to put your money towards your gear for the time being and wait until that 30g sin bookclip gets a bit spammed. The price for it would be 120m right now making twin strike and puncture wound at 60m each, however as all things in this game go it will be cheaper in two months or so. I think that's your best bet of buying those skills because pwi sure as hell won't do anything to change the drop rate or make them cheaper than they are currently.

  • forbiddenwordsforbiddenwords Posts: 321 Arc User
    kwixxy1 wrote: »
    I find it quite sad that OP points out a real issue (though maybe not in the most refined way ever) and everyone jumps on the person accusing them of wanting things to be easy, on top the guy/girl gets jailed by the mods. *sigh*


    She was probably jailed for her attitude and aggressive language in 90% of her posts. Which also provoked other people to respond in the same way. If she was more diplomatic and wouldn't swing her arms right and left whenever someone disagreed, the outcome might have been different. Her request itself wasn't the problem, just the way she responds to people
    ​​
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  • lichtfuerstlichtfuerst Posts: 28 Arc User
    You can get those skills from fb99 last boss, it didnt change. Just it is way harder to find a squad to farm those bosses for these specific skills, because the droprate is simply very low and there is no other benefit like in fsp, so no one does it.

    It is not unfair, because fact is the skills make sins op and there is just a ton of demand for these skills.
    Another fact is that I dont see any other skills being able to oneshot other endgame characters so easily and at the same time being so spamable like the sin skills. Being spamable like this and bypassing charms so easily is just ridiculous and therefor the prices and droprate are fine as is.

    It would be unfair if these 2 skills were to have the same impact as the psy skills and be at 100m, but as you said psy skills are not as sought after.
    In the end the high prices are done by the players and players are buying them at these prices. That just shows how valuable these skills are to the players.
    Even if pwi somehow manages to make the droprates go higher, even doubling them I still doubt the prices would go down significantly.

    People should understand that these skills are considered to be high tier and to some it is even endgame content. At least I would say they are as important as r9.

    So again my question: Why should op stuff be cheap for one specific class? (Which is considered the reason for that class to be OP.)
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    You can get those skills from fb99 last boss, it didnt change. Just it is way harder to find a squad to farm those bosses for these specific skills, because the droprate is simply very low and there is no other benefit like in fsp, so no one does it.

    It is not unfair, because fact is the skills make sins op and there is just a ton of demand for these skills.
    Another fact is that I dont see any other skills being able to oneshot other endgame characters so easily and at the same time being so spamable like the sin skills. Being spamable like this and bypassing charms so easily is just ridiculous and therefor the prices and droprate are fine as is.

    It would be unfair if these 2 skills were to have the same impact as the psy skills and be at 100m, but as you said psy skills are not as sought after.
    In the end the high prices are done by the players and players are buying them at these prices. That just shows how valuable these skills are to the players.
    Even if pwi somehow manages to make the droprates go higher, even doubling them I still doubt the prices would go down significantly.

    People should understand that these skills are considered to be high tier and to some it is even endgame content. At least I would say they are as important as r9.

    So again my question: Why should op stuff be cheap for one specific class? (Which is considered the reason for that class to be OP.)

    First of all, 99 hasnt dropped books in years. I know database claims it does but go do as many runs as you want and see no books drop.

    Just because skill is "difficult" to get is no justification for it to be OP. So just because skill is OP is no justification for to be expensive either. They are expensive due supply and demand and if there was enough supply the prices wouldnt be high.

    I dont believe skills should be expensive but something "everybody" can have access to. Sin skills are broken OP but that should be tackled by nerfing said skills, not making them "difficult" to get.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Some people here thinks that if those skills are made easier to obtain and much cheaper all the sins on all the servers will become gods no matter what gear they have and 1 shot everyone with elimination. I am laughing.
    Post edited by bloodedone87 on
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  • xdragonxxxdragonxx Posts: 39 Arc User
    I wanna point out the price on those skills went skyhigh when primal came out because the sins were rdy to pay stupid high price to get them, not havign it prior to primal because it was a waste getting it. Its a simple offer/demand situation that went extremely bad because the offer for it is low, books dropping from fsp only ( and added to auction house and boutique now even because people complained it was so rare). Nowaday, the price is still too high because the demand ( the sins) are still willing to pay so much, why would the book sellers drop the price?
  • kalystconquerer#0876 kalystconquerer Forum Crawler Posts: 1,421 Perfect World Employee
    I mean I could inquire about sources of this skill and making them easier to obtain in-game, but those changes, if we could do them, would take a bit to pass into our version. Which by that point, some people here might have already obtained this skill through in-game farming/merchanting.

    However I think there's a fair point that was touched upon here, which was the way in which newer players perceive the progression of the game. Along with the established players, I'm used to a very linear way of thinking. If there are stop gaps at any point that are proving severe enough that is causing players new or old to be unhappy about their experience, we should take a look and see if it's something we should be addressing or not. I'm not saying let's hand out fully decked out characters and Dragon Orbs for everyone, but I still like to hear what's going on from time to time.
  • greenfire312greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    Go read her other thread about being invis for everyone, despite being low level, if that is not wanting things on a silver platter I dont know what is then.

    And again go read the other thread.


    Why do you think I mention all the OP stuff in my comment?

    BECAUSE THE SKILLS SHE WANTS MAKE SINS OP

    So i dont see anything wrong with OP stuff being expensive.
    BTW these skills are in the bidding hall, so here we are again with how to make money.
    Of course there is no way to make billions over night on his game except cashing, but 100m is farmable in 2months tops.
    What I base that on is that she is running cube everyday and sells the necklaces at 55m(current price on the market).
    In 2 months you get 4 necklaces with 1 tt99 character easily SOLO. Sell all 4 and you should make a profit of 100m+. So tbh it is not too hard to get 100m for one skill which makes you OP.
    If she is doing other stuff too she will get 100m way faster, but it still depends on her and ONLY her alone.
    OP or not, no other skills have this limitation anymore. You remember when Demon HF was 100+ mil? Why did that drop? Because PoFs became much more accessible, and that's a good thing (and I say this as someone who farmed PoFs from cube as a primary income source back in the day, when they were 500k+). I bought a Demon HF for 4mil last month.

    I repeat: all I'm suggesting is an even playing field. No book should rely on drops from an instance that no one does anymore.

    Regarding you and the other person talking about the OP's other thread: sorry, but I'm not going to exhaustively search someone's post history just to invalidate their argument. I'm sure I can find something in your post history which I can reframe as objectionable if I wanted, but that's an ad hominem attack at best. Stick to what's presented.
    I just think you are being hypocritical about "old" players.

    I am curious if OP did join a fac and asked for help or something like that, because I have alts in non-tw factions and the higher geared people there are helpful af and do fsp/jfsp together with the new/undergeared people, or help them out anyway they can.

    It just seems glaringly obvious to me that OP doesnt want people to give advice but just get what she wants.

    You know what I am just starting a fking pill baby now and see how I farm 100m in less then 2months with tt99 gear, because I dont need to even rb to get that kind of coin with one char. All im gonna do is auto cultivate, bh and run cube, because rb is not needed to make money.​​
    I didn't say raise a pillbaby. I said start from Lv1 and tell me how much coin you get. The OP specifically said they aren't a pillbaby anyway, meaning they have the additional hurdle of paying for TT99 gear or - indeed - relying on faction help.

    You want to talk about the virtues of old players? I remember when you had to form squads for TT and negotiate how the green mats were split, in which who provided the ult sub was a significant factor. And TT runs could take hours depending on squad strength. You couldn't just find a charitable person to bowl over the entire instance for you in ten minutes. Which is kind of the point - all of this old content has become all but trivial given all the power creep in this game, and at this point virtually all Lv11 skills fall under that umbrella as well. There is no reason - I don't care if they're OP - that two items of one specific class should be the only ones excluded from this effect.

    And none of this invalidates my main point that this still an expense relegated to one class and one class only, due to a developer oversight not to add these books to the Brim/Eden droplist.
    I mean I could inquire about sources of this skill and making them easier to obtain in-game, but those changes, if we could do them, would take a bit to pass into our version. Which by that point, some people here might have already obtained this skill through in-game farming/merchanting.

    However I think there's a fair point that was touched upon here, which was the way in which newer players perceive the progression of the game. Along with the established players, I'm used to a very linear way of thinking. If there are stop gaps at any point that are proving severe enough that is causing players new or old to be unhappy about their experience, we should take a look and see if it's something we should be addressing or not. I'm not saying let's hand out fully decked out characters and Dragon Orbs for everyone, but I still like to hear what's going on from time to time.
    Aside from adding Twin Strike and Puncture Wound to the Brim/Eden droplist (and probably Aqua Impact/Spirit Blast as well), the only thing I would ask you to look at is lowgame and midgame money issues. This game is currently designed to shunt newbies toward endgame as quickly as possible, with virtually no coin whatsoever. To put it one way - I started a Duskblade last month as a casual side project. She's Lv33 now and currently has about 147k in coin. Total given from other characters? 150k. Did most quests, and bought practically nothing except a couple of teleports and some NPC gears that don't get covered by the OP stuff you get thrown at you these days. And most midgame quests have deliberately had their money almost eliminated entirely, leaving newbies entirely dependent on Jones money (if they know about Jones at all). It's not like midgame characters have no expenses.

    Buuuut if I rant any more about the cannibalization of the lowgame, I'll never stop, so... thanks for coming in and reading this thread. :tongue:
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    People have different PoV's that's true but people need to remember that:

    It is alot easier to get gear with which you can do basic stuff compared to back in the day. Even if you do 3h TT runs and such you would still need ALOT less time to get decent gears (vana g16) compared to what people needed to even level up back in the day, let alone getting decent gears for that version. So yeah, it became quite a bit easier if you directly compare it.

    This game is a grinder, it will always be hard to catch up to older players but I agree that it is quite a bit too hard.

    @kalystconquerer#0876 I always try to take into account how much money PWE would lose if certain changes would be implemented and seriously? You guys could afford giving out basic G16 Nirvana gears to anyone on the creation of the character. People that wanna be competitive will eventually invest the money for r9 anyways. Granted, there have been several codes with which you can obtain full TT99 Gears which in return allow you to get full g15 Nirvana if you just buy a few Rapture/Uncanny Crystals. Nearly there, yap, but it shouldnt be bound to codes...those items should be starting gifts for our current meta. This way, people just have to farm the crystals and ws to get their g16. So it's not entirely for free but it's a good way to start off. Now also grant free Sky-Level, Passives and stuff or make them vastly faster obtainable and people are good to go.

    Just look at the recent expansion..if you don't even have Full Nirvana g16 then even normal mobs will eat you alive...try doing them with just tt90 gears :D
  • kwixxy1kwixxy1 Posts: 7 Arc User
    Some people here thinks that if those skills are made easier to obtain and much cheaper all the sins on all the server will become gods no matter what gear they have and 1 shot everyone with elimination. I am laughing.

    +2000 to this comment!!
    To begin with the combined versions of puncture wound and twin strike are BASIC for sins. People need to get that without aps-able bosses sins need to rely on those skills for any high-lvl instances other than TT and WS. No one here is asking for free book handouts and there's no reason for others to fret that they'd be getting one shot by sins just cause they can get elimination and life hunter easier. The gear gap between a new char would still be HUGE not to mention the spirit gap. Even if a r9 sin who stopped playing 5 years ago were to come back and they had previously learned those expensive skills it would still take them about to month just to farm the bloods to combine them, and then many months after just to close the spirit gap and work on passives.
    Long story short having an op skill has nothing to do with end game pvp because our endgame pvp is strongly tied to days of grinding and farming for passives and spirit. Those days where gear mattered the most are dead. Just ask all the returning r9's how they get creamed in pvp from even g16 players because they lack spirit and passives.

    This is why I strongly believe that if twin strike and puncture wound were a bit easier to obtain it wouldn't matter on the long run. Anyone that can gear up to r9 +12 and one shot you can surely afford these skills at the price they are right now. But we're talking about new players that would take interest in this game and how much different is to start out as any other class other than sin simply because of the necessity for those super expensive skills.

    Also regardless of what database says, those skills don't drop in Aba/SoT. They got moved to FSP from the very beging. Even kalyst herself said this on the first page of this thread. Then again anyone who's been playing this game for at least 6+ months should know that books don't drop there anymore.
    Regarding you and the other person talking about the OP's other thread: sorry, but I'm not going to exhaustively search someone's post history just to invalidate their argument. I'm sure I can find something in your post history which I can reframe as objectionable if I wanted, but that's an ad hominem attack at best. Stick to what's presented.

    ^^^^ +2000 to this!

    @jsxshadow Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. First of all this thread is about the major difference in skill cost between sins and other classes from a new player's point of view. Not about seeking ways to close the gear gap between new and old players. I think it's how it should be. As you said so yourself gear has become easier to acquire and so has lvling, there's no need for sky lvl or passive hand outs. It's only logical that a game that has 8+ years of content to pose a challenge when attempting to reach end game quotas. It's the case with all other mmorpgs that have been around for at least a decade. I see no reason why PWI should conform to any changes that would make the game easier.
    If you just think about it, grinding is a feature rooted into every mmorpg and it stands out even more if the game has a lot of content to cover. And again I have to repeat myself it's how it should be and how it is regardless what older mmorpg you decide to start playing.
  • greenfire312greenfire312 Posts: 269 Arc User
    Some people here thinks that if those skills are made easier to obtain and much cheaper all the sins on all the servers will become gods no matter what gear they have and 1 shot everyone with elimination. I am laughing.
    Just to take a more realistic approach... I think what'll happen long term is, in this order:
    1. More sins get the merge skills
    2. Sins in general start killing more people than they already do
    3. Whining about the OP sin skills increases
    4. With any luck, the skills eventually get nerfed because of it

    Obviously this is just speculation on my part, and I don't PVP much anyway, but my gut feeling is that this will actually be a nerf to sins in the long run, which sounds like a good thing to me. Cheap and not-OP, that's my kind of char. :tongue:
    Mains: Miugre / LigerKing
    Etherblade server
  • forbiddenwordsforbiddenwords Posts: 321 Arc User
    Just to take a more realistic approach... I think what'll happen long term is, in this order:
    1. More sins get the merge skills
    2. Sins in general start killing more people than they already do
    3. Whining about the OP sin skills increases
    4. With any luck, the skills eventually get nerfed because of it

    Obviously this is just speculation on my part, and I don't PVP much anyway, but my gut feeling is that this will actually be a nerf to sins in the long run, which sounds like a good thing to me. Cheap and not-OP, that's my kind of char. :tongue:


    I really doubt our complaining will be heard by CN. As long as their version doesn't experience the same issues as us, it's very likely that nothing will be done. People have been complaining for a long time about sins being too OP and CN continues to turn a deaf ear to them. The "nerfing" of tidal was a step forward, but I'm pretty sure that's all they're getting for a long time now. I hope it will happen, but it's just one of those things that sounds too good to be true to me.
    ​​
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  • euroislove#8880 euroislove Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    I'm speaking in here with regards my sister.


    I have 500m coins. and she doesn't want me to give it to her...
    1. she is not asking for handme outs.
    2.she is not asking for the skill itself,
    3. she wants to play this game and not go thru the easy way. whats the point of playing the game if u don't earn anything by your own effort.
    4. if she wanted to get free skill she should've written. "GIVE ME FREE SKILLS."
    I played this game for about 6 -7 yrs or somethin. i can't remember. the only reason that i have that kind of money is coz of the time i had played. I was the one who invited her to play this game. And this is the kind of community that replies to her.
    (I kind of regretted inviting her in here the first place.)She's thinking of quitting. . i personally wanted her to quit. coz i did quit a couple of times. i just came back due to nostalgia with old friends.This game is not really friendly to new players. coin wise and pvp. if a new player wants to be on a competitive side. he/she needs to be pay for g16 and vitae pills in order to truly catch up.
    Don't compare old times to the present. There is no use comparing the two. everything is changed. and different..
    I had more fun in the old days where the lvl cap was just 99 and no tideborne classes was present at that time. it was more fun then than today. and players truly forming squad and being helpful to one another. now it different. older players should not assume that new players got things handed out to them. yes in the old days we got no lvl 1-40 armor sets to help us. we get to kill 15 mobs on lvl 1 quest. yes everything else is easier now coz pwi got fixed/ optimized for daily gaming but other things got harder as time passed by. they introduced ? mobs. which is more tedious to kill than world bosses. and the tedious daillies we had to do. i quit coz playing pwi seems to be routine rather than a fun thing to play with. a lot of my old friends quit and comes back from time to time. but we don't really put an effort in playing it. Truthfully speaking we don't know when PWI will be gone and we still have this kind of community that comes with it. we have a bright future ahead of us. (sarcastically speaking)
    These two skill books are generally useless. Sins are squishy. if u get killed by them ur just generally have a weaker spirit or gear. either way. Having these books will not generally affect a sin with low spirit and weak gears. The skills that open up when u acquire them is not easy to have. since u need to spend 2-4 months doing primal daily. and people said getting those two skills are easy. .... Easy? 1 click Bid in the auction. thats easy.

    If you want new people to play this game and stick to it. u should try to be more friendly and accomodating and not assuming a lot of things.

    mods close this thread if your not planning to take action or anything. there is no use. having this discussion and no result.. is it not?
    btw, I just logged in my toon a yesterday and i saw somebody named ________ hording sin skill books. i have nothing against that dude. its just really funny buying a skill book that u dont need and selling it x4 the prize u originally brought. we really have a bright future ahead of us pwi.
    good luck to all old and new players (if there is still one.) have a good day/ night​​
    Post edited by phantomforce#4598 on
  • phantomforce#4598 phantomforce Posts: 397 Community Moderator
    Closing this discussion at OP's request.​​
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