What's the strongest classes for different kinds of pvp? Tw nw 1v1 1v2 etc

For 1v1 PvP especially self buffed? Assuming the class has maxed out gear and cards etc...

Top 3:

1.Barb
2.Sin
3.Duskblade

Barbs is easily at the top spot for one simple reason....Despite having a lack of Anti CC they have the highest HP pool in the game and quite frankly unless they are terrible.even with a pure STR build they wont have to worry about dying in a 1v1. They just simply have too many ways to keep themself alive between just basic skills and apoth while maintaining very high damage,CC and a somewhat spammble purge.

Sin is easily the second spot for two simple reasons...Their damage especially if full deity and tidal this isn't up for debate..However if you want to throw in another reason sins can actually become quite tanky assuming they use death chain to a nearby target. The only reason I don't put them at the top is because they are still squishy outside of tidal especially if full deity, but that being said once primal skills came out and cards even sins can roll a barb with the amount of damage they output.

Duskblades I would put at number 3 for similar reasons as the sin. They have very high base damage and extremely spammable CC which makes for easy setups for 100-0 combos or forcing apoth,genie waste. The main reason I wont put them above the sin or in the top spot is because unlike the sin they do not have tidal, making them very squishy or vunerable if they fail to land their combos.

For a general rank:

1.Barb
Refer to above.

2.Sin
Refer to above.

3.Duskblade
Refer to above.

4.Blademaster
Very high DPH class if built pure str, the only problem they suffer from is they require a very heavy setup to kill anything end game which is what hurts them essentially in the end, however still a very strong class and not weak by any means.

4.Cleric
High damage, high heals, VERY high CC, however they don't have many CC abilities their two skills are enough for them to constantly set you up for a 100-0 combo either forcing you to CC them in time or blow your apoth/genie. This is really the only mage class in the game currently that has the least diffculty beating any class endgame. However their weakness is the fact their damage and their main combo is limited to metal skills which is EXTREMELY predictable and easy to avoid(especially if you're a sin) granted you have the correct genie setup.

5.Veno
Highly underrated class, but if the veno is demon and actually good, they can potentially 1-2 shot you or 100-0 if you don't pay attention to your debuff icon. Combine that with their monkey king they can CC you for days if you don't kill it at the beginning for the fight. Not to mention venos are actually fairly tanky in fox form they can 1v1 melee classes fairly well. But their ultimate weakness is lack of defenses, once those are blown venos are generally easy to kill.

6.Wizard
Actually fairly strong right now, they can easily kill you with spark or life reversion combo if timed correctly making them a very scary class to 1v1 if they know how to play. The main problem they suffer from similar to BM is that their combo requires a good setup, which again is very predictable.

7.Stormbringer
Very high damage combos, combine that with their ability to kite on the go they are a huge pain to deal with, they may not possess a 100-0 combo per say like most casters, but their ability to poke+burst you down while moving is what makes them a real threat.

8.Archer
Probably currently the most 'average' class right now, damage is meh at best, no real 100-0 combo outside of BV+Metal spam with a Zooming thunder powder which unfortunately is very easy to combo with one genie skill.....Still one of the top classes for any form of group PvP, but unfortunately 1v1 is not where they shine.

9.Mystic
Very few actually know how to combo with the class period, and by that I mean very few mystics know they can reset the CD's on their pets skills simply by resummoning and using it alongside their sleep plant. That being said mystics are very similar to clerics in that they can CC you for days and spam a 3spark combo due to their high chi sustain. Sadly their main problem is that they are MUCH more vulnerable than clerics and suffer from the fact their combo is again very predictable and can be COMPLETELY blocked with 1 genie skill. Yes they may have verdant shell, a damage reduction skill, HP siphon(from charm/pots etc), pet buffs etc, but all those things can easily be blown through and the only way a mystic can really counter is with a pet stun/seal or a well timed sleep. Pushback is an option but it loses some of is usefulness when fighting other ranged opponents.

10.Seeker
So I bet you're wondering how in the world seeker is at the bottom. Very similar to psychics, it's their combo, which is easily avoidable with one genie skill or using a defense charm at the right time. A Very tanky class and high damage don't get me wrong, but currently seekers aren't a huge threat in 1v1's period unless they outgear their opponent or their opponent has no clue what they are doing.

11.Psychic
The wild card class.....High damage, high defense during white vodoo, can easily prevent being bursted by most classes due to Soul of Silence(counterable with will surge), so why are they ranked so low? They can't do their combo without the aid of soul of stunning, and honestly it is one of the most telegraphed combos you will see. So unless the person has blown every single skill to protect themselves psychics will have a very tough time killing anything 1v1 endgame assuming the gear/spirt gap is the same and the player isn't inexperienced



For Mass PvP...

Any ranged class honestly...However out of importance for small scale PvP and TW:

1.Cleric
2.Archers
3.Venos

I am sure this part is self explanatory.


Conclusion:

All classes are capable of winning 1v1's, and my list here is strictly my opinion based on my own experience and testing. My list is more to outline which classes I feel have a MUCH better chance at winning 1v1 in the grand scheme of things when all things are even versus when the gear/spirit difference is drastically different. I'll add that the class balanced changed a lot when primal world was introduced and why my opinion has changed quite a bit over the years.

I think the last point i'll make is that if we were talking about 1v1's where the gear/spirit/stats is clearly not balanced between the players then this list would change heavily and more in favour of casters and sins in all honesty.


EDIT:Changed wording for the mystic portion to appease the tryhards.

Personally if we think 1v1 I agree almost fully with @kiymori one thing I have to say is cleric is in NO way tankier than a mystic verdant shell with falling petals makes a mystic literally immortal even vs sins and db. In the case of me on duskblade the only way I can kill mystics is if I catch thier breaking the cloud and increase the cool down and then hopefully take them out. But verdant shell along with spirit of defenses since people like to use those 1v1 makes mystic one tough cookie

Personally I also disagree on psy they nuke damage plus channel/cast speed lets not forget puri proc then expel and then psychic will Psys endgame shouldnt be losing endgame 1c1

Speaking up for clerics, most people don't know this, but sage vs demon makes a pretty big difference. Sage has substantially longer cc, which grants a sage cleric more time to stack healing debuff, get your hp lower with mark of weakness, etc, etc. With the new healing debuffs, I can often wait out a person's heart of steel, just reapply the healing debuffs during heart and do combo after. Compared to before, people spend a lot of time running from me, in the hope that I won't be able to reapply a healing debuff before their current stack expires.

Demon outputs a lot more dmg, but is quite a bit squishier without having access to extra physical defense in violet dance mode (a sage can use 'Vanguard spirit', but a demon cannot use their heal 'stream of rejuvenation' in violet dance). However, their extra dmg tends to go to waste because they have less cc time to work with.

I think your overall ranking looks quite reasonable to me. However, there is a pretty important note you need to make regarding duskblades. For all classes except sins and barbs, dbs wreck pretty much everything. As a cleric, nothing comes remotely close to giving me a tough fight like a duskblade. A sin I can hold at bay all day long by spamming vanguard spirit, purifying their tackling slash, and religiously using plume shell and pious blessing to remain protected at all times. A barb I can hold at bay by liberally using silent seal and sog to keep them away from me for a good portion of the fight (also since most barbs use very high strength build genies, I get to sleep them pretty much whenever I want, because they don't belief out of my sleep). But a duskblade... a duskblade can often ignore all my purify procs because of their nearly gapless paralyze locks... kiting them is pointless and dangerous; and their cc lock is so long and their dmg is so high that they can either wait out my plume shell, or else drain my mana dry---without needing to spark at all. In the tiny gaps between skills, I often find myself forced to put seal of gods or sleep into cd for an extra minute, which further stifles my ability to go on the offensive.

So to conclude---when ranking a db against sins and barbs, yes maybe dbs come third. When ranking other classes to db though, I believe dbs are more dangerous to other classes in 1vs1 than sins or barbs---sins can be more easily tanked, and barbs can be more easily avoided.

For those of you who clearly didn't catch my point, I meant that cleric out performs Mystic in virtually every single PvP scenario, sure the mystic may have more raw physical defense than the cleric, but the cleric will actually have less problems dealing with classes in 1v1, which is what i meant by mystics being 'squishier' than clerics. It may seem like mystics have so much utility at their disposal but when you actually observe how they work you realize it's actually very situational compared to a cleric.

But I suppose I shouldn't have used the word squishy since it leaves to much room for 'omg wtfbbq do u even PWI BRUH!?'' *rolls eyes* guess ill go back and correct my wording zzzz...

Anyway @myhero to answer your question now:

You can get into the competitive scene right now assuming you're fighting with people in your gear and level range. However if you're asking if it's possible to get on the same level as everyone else that won't happen, you are going to have spend time working on your gear,level,cards,spirit etc etc until you're at the level you can compete with your average end game geared person. Now if you want to compete with top geared players the only way you will be able to do that is pray you get lucky opening boxes for cards and star chart rolls.

@csquared5

Honestly if they gave DB's tidal I'd personally agree they are easily number one, I'd probably argue on a class vs class ground they can stomp everything easily except a barb again for the reasons stated in my first post. The only class they will probably 'struggle' with per say is a sin simply because they wont have the freedom to CC due to tidal.

@blazerboy

I understand your disagreement on my ranking for the psychic, I tend to forget most people on the normal servers are spoiled and tend to do full buff 1v1's, but even in the situation of a full buff 1v1 or a self buff 1v1, a Psy's kill combo is very predictable and fairly easy to counter. They don't have the same ability to pressure you with damage for the simple fact that by doing so they put them self in danger by having to use black voodoo, after all lets be honest assuming this is a 'similar' geared 1v1 a psychic should not be able to kill you in white voodoo. The only thing they can really do is hope you fail and proc SoS then switch to black and go for the standard tide spirit wombo combo, which again you can deal with, the only problem is most people don't actually spec to counter the damage on their genie or they get impatient and blow their genie trying to kill the psy while he's in white which is an easy setup kill for the psy since he/she should be aware your genie wont CD in time to save you.

But again that's just my opinion and why I feel psys actually far down very far on the list especially when we are talking a 'similar' geared fight. It's not like wizards where they already have high defense but maintain high damage and have several kill combos to turn to when they are ready.

kiymori wrote: »

For 1v1 PvP especially self buffed? Assuming the class has maxed out gear and cards etc...

Top 3:
1.Barb
2.Sin
3.Duskblade

I agree with your choices.
I think Sin & Dusk are interchangeable though.
A Sin can use tidal to avoid a dusk's lock, and make use of stealths to have the better attack of opportunity.
A Dusk's superior paralyze lock as compared to the sin's freeze/seal/stun makes it a lot harder to escape the dusk, giving them the edge over classes other than sin. (Especially ranged classes because of their anti-range defense buff)

kiymori wrote: »

Barbs is easily at the top spot. the highest HP pool in the game. They just simply have too many ways to keep themself alive between just basic skills and apoth while maintaining very high damage,CC and a somewhat spammble purge.

You are right but are missing something crucial. 1v1 PvP, Strength barbs can hit high damage, other builds can not. Barbs can put the most amount of Str points of the Str based classes. Axes/Hammers are the lowest dex requirement weapon (as opposed to the multi-path BMs & higher dex req swords).
In addition, Barbs have:
1.) Bloodbath, which allows a Barb w/ 60 dex to have more accuracy than a BM w/ 200
2.) Multiple 100% chance to hit skills, making accuracy unnecessary

kiymori wrote: »

Sin is easily the second spot for two reasons...Their damage especially if full deity and tidal this isn't up for debate..if you want to throw in another reason sins can actually become tanky assuming they use death chain to a nearby target. The only reason I don't put them at the top is because they are still squishy outside of tidal especially if full deity, but that being said once primal skills came out and cards even sins can roll a barb with the amount of damage they output.

A JoSD Sin is completely superior to a Deity sin.
Atk & Def levels have diminishing returns. JoSD will grant them a better boost, and combined with Tidal makes them near immortal if buffed. Atop of the average Attack level being higher than the average Def level due to R9.3 Weapons, Sins also have skills which boost their Atk level and Crit Damage. Deity is NOT the way to go on a sin for maximum effect.

A Fully buffed end-game JoSD Assassin w/ Tidal on is often much harder to kill than a barb.
66% chance to evade/dodge all debuffs/stuns/purge/effects/whatever.
900+ Dex makes evasion an actual factor, where phy classes must first cross their fingers that they even hit the sin, before crossing them again to hope tidal doesn't work. This makes them both difficult to pin down, and to deal effective damage on. Sins also have an effective stun lock. 1v1 they pretty much have it all.

The reason Barbs are often the best class to fight a sin, is survivability + 100% chance to hit skills.

kiymori wrote: »

Duskblades I would put at number 3. They have high base damage and extremely spammable CC which makes for easy setups for 100-0 combos or forcing apoth,genie waste. The main reason I wont put them above the sin or in the top spot is because unlike the sin they do not have tidal, making them very squishy or vunerable if they fail to land their combos.

They may not have tidal, however they do have:
1.) 3 second stealth to escape/ remove themselves as target
2.) 6 second??? buff that makes them completely untargetable
3.) Buff that makes all attacks a certain range away from themselves deal less
4.) A super skill that makes all attacks from more than 8 meters away deal only 1% damage
5.) Multiple unblockable unbreakable paralyze skills
6.) An infinite stun lock impossible to break without genie if performed correctly

Assassins are the 1 class with a 1v1 edge over them, due to tidal protection

kiymori wrote: »

4.Blademaster
Very high DPH class if built pure str, the only problem they suffer from is they require a very heavy setup to kill anything end game which is what hurts them essentially in the end, however still a very strong class and not weak by any means.

I agree BM is a great 1v1 class.
I agree with most of what you said but your first point is just... factually false.
Blademasters have the ABSOLUTE LOWEST base attack of every single class in all of PWI. FACT.
I am an end game, full+12 JoSD, Full S Card, full Strength BM. I am also Sage which gives me higher physical attack than Demon BMs.
I do not even have enough dex to wield fists.
And my maximum attack range w/ +12 R9.3 Drake Flame Axes is one half of a +11 psychic in my guild's minimum attack range. My Zerk+Crit = a casters normal crit. My Zerk = a casters normal attack in terms of raw damage.

The mathematical reason a BM has the lowest base damage in the game is:
Non-Casters need 150 Str/Dex for every weapon multiplier.
Casters need only 100 Mag for every weapon multiplier.
Dex classes raise their crit/accuracy/damage/evasion all at once w/ a pure dex build.
2/3 Str classes (Seek/BM) need surplus Dex in addition to Str to improve accuracy and wield higher req. weapons
2/3 Dex classes (Dusk/Sin) increase their critical strike damage
1/3 Dex classes (EA) has higher weapon damage by an enormous margin compared to the other phy classes.
Barb has higher wep mastery, can add more strength.

Aside from crappy damage though, BM has AMAZING cc ability, best in the game. Also has good defense and HP pool. Last, they have Heavens Flame which is a good way to make up that lost damage we just went over.


4.Cleric
High damage, high heals, VERY high CC, however they don't have many CC abilities their two skills are enough for them to constantly set you up for a 100-0 combo either forcing you to CC them in time or blow your apoth/genie. This is really the only mage class in the game currently that has the least diffculty beating any class endgame. However their weakness is the fact their damage and their main combo is limited to metal skills which is EXTREMELY predictable and easy to avoid(especially if you're a sin) granted you have the correct genie setup.

5.Veno
Highly underrated class, but if the veno is demon and actually good, they can potentially 1-2 shot you if you don't pay attention to your debuff icon. Combine that with their monkey king they can CC you for days if you don't kill it at the beginning for the fight. Not to mention venos are actually fairly tanky in fox form [/quote]
You sort of touched on it but yeah, demon veno has a combo that can pretty much 1 shot anybody at end game.
Pric your defense to absolute 0 then 1 shot you because you are basically a mob. and JoSDs dont work because anything multiplied/divided by 0 is still 0.

I've watched 90khp barbs get 1 shot

kiymori wrote: »

6.Wizard
Actually fairly strong right now, they can easily kill you with spark or life reversion combo if timed correctly making them a very scary class to 1v1 if they know how to play. The main problem they suffer from similar to BM is that their combo requires a good setup, which again is very predictable.

7.Stormbringer
Very high damage combos, combine that with their ability to kite on the go they are a huge pain to deal with, they may not possess a 100-0 combo per say like most casters, but their ability to poke+burst you down while moving is what makes them a real threat.

8.Archer
Probably currently the most 'average' class right now, damage is meh at best, no real 100-0 combo outside of BV+Metal spam with a Zooming thunder powder which unfortunately is very easy to combo with one genie skill.....Still one of the top classes for any form of group PvP, but unfortunately 1v1 is not where they shine.

9.Mystic
Very few actually know how to combo with the class period, and by that I mean very few mystics know they can reset the CD's on their pets skills simply by resummoning and using it alongside their sleep plant. That being said mystics are very similar to clerics in that they can CC you for days and spam a 3spark combo due to their high chi sustain. Sadly their main problem is that they are MUCH squisher than clerics and suffer from the fact their combo is again very predictable and can be COMPLETELY blocked with 1 genie skill.

10.Seeker
So I bet you're wondering how in the world seeker is at the bottom. Very similar to psychics, it's their combo, which is easily avoidable with one genie skill or using a defense charm at the right time. A Very tanky class and high damage don't get me wrong, but currently seekers aren't a huge threat in 1v1's period unless they outgear their opponent or their opponent has no clue what they are doing.

11.Psychic
The wild card class.....High damage, high defense during white vodoo, can easily prevent being bursted by most classes due to Soul of Silence(counterable with will surge), so why are they ranked so low? They can't do their combo without the aid of soul of stunning, and honestly it is one of the most telegraphed combos you will see. So unless the person has blown every single skill to protect themselves psychics will have a very tough time killing anything 1v1 endgame assuming the gear/spirt gap is the same and the player isn't inexperience

​​

Not gonna touch 1vs1s as those dont exactly interest me.

In mass PvP I would rank 2 classes to tier 1, BMs and SBs. BMs got higher CC but SBs have the purple circles of death with short CD, which is likely the best single utility skill in game. BMs are absurdly tanky with their marrows, SBs with their high m.def due being caster class and skills to boost their P.def to ludicrous level. SBs also have absurd damage with long range.

Tier 2 I would put Clerics, Mystics and barbs. Healers provide obvious support to your side while barbs are likely the best class to chase ppl down. Fast as a mount, great single target CC and extremely tanky to handle pretty bad stpots (In middle of enemy).

Tier 3 is Sins and DBs, who could as well be tier 2. Venos and archer due purges. Wizards, being likely the strongest DD class outside of SBs currently in mass PvP, the new skill upgrades are just ludicrous. Good wizard is damn near impossible to pin down in mass PvP any longer as the stealth on distance shrink breaks targeting and its extremely hard to re-target said wizzie quickly.

Tier 4, are left with psychic and seeker, unless I forgot some class. Neither class really offers anything you cant replace with other class. Classes arent exactly bad but relatively easy replace with other classes, unlike some of the top tier picks.

kiymori wrote: »

@daymond

As far as my barb reasoning goes, I assumed 'pure str build' barb was implied hence why I didn't bother stating it, since obviously a vit build barb isn't exactly going to kill anything that doesn't want to die lol....

As for sins, I personally(remember this is a personal opinion), disagree with rolling JoSD on a sin, unless you're always doing full buffed 1v1's(which is lame as far as I am concerned) you can maximize your damage and take advantage of all those attack levels and easily burn through any class including a barb which I have personally tested with max gear and top cards(nuema portal) on another server and this one with merely 'average' end game cards. However if you want the testimony of a sin in my guild or others with nearly capped stats then I can try to get his opinion on this too. Honestly the main reason I feel deities work well for a sin too is because they have tidal and death chain(for mass), which actually makes their overall 'defensive' potential go up. But again it's a matter of choice, some people prefer to make their sin tankier while others want the damage, for me I feel sins already have an amazing kit which helps them survive mass PvP especially 1v1, so why not take advantage of it and get more damage.

On the topic of BMs they do in fact have very good DPH, clearly not as high as other classes but it's up there in terms of Melee DPS. No matter how I look at it, BMs damage is just fine and isn't low by any means,unless you're comparing it to another class which honestly wouldn't make much sense to do in this discussion. But everyone is different, I never felt BM(at least since the primal patch) lacked much since they can pressure you pretty hard to genie with a well timed paralyze.

I am not stating an opinion on the following topics:
1.) JoSD vs Deity effectiveness in Assassin class
2.) Blademaster damage

I am using plain math.
When you press 'C' on your character menu, and you look at the number value for the Attack Stat, Blademasters have the lowest number of all classes at end game. period.

Because of diminishing returns, JoSD factually will give a sin more than Deity's will. The amount of damage they gain relative to their attack is MUCH smaller from Deity than the amount of damage they prevent themselves taking when going JoSD.

Again, not opinion, numbers.

---

I respect you prefer to use Deity's on a sin and you may use your character however you like as may anybody.
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this game is not for 1 .vs. 1, at least you won't see any event for that
in TW/NW, gears+number is major factor, class and skill just play very small part until gears+number reach a close level.

both side gears+number in NW/TW usually have a big gap enough to ignore the class and skill factor

most of cases just one side crushes other side, and it doesn't matter you are what class and what skill.
even though many ppl like to emphasie how good their skills and classes

just in a few cases and some small scale moment, you can see the diffence of class and skill is important.

very simple fact, if the class and skill can play major role in this game, company will lose their money and won't allow that happen. the game just designed for encouring ppl pay for their gear and win

Yes, some games winning depend on player skills but it is not for pwi.
Many players suggest pwi/pwcn makes a pvp scense for fair gear pvp. It won't nvr happen just because it is against this game earning money way.

So enjoy your playing class, no matter you want to play skillful, or just close eye and kick some low gear ****.
good luck to be a good gear+numbers side in TW/NW if you want to win this event