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Vitality build

Raujada - ArchosaurRaujada - Archosaur Posts: 65 Arc User
edited June 2014 in Venomancer
I've read somewhere about this build. Anybody use it? Is it worth to sacrifice some (or a lot?) magic damage and defence in change of hp? Do you have to rely more on your pets for adding damage? How do you play in pvp and pve?

I'm trying to understand what's the best build for poor people who wants to be useful anyway. :P
Post edited by Raujada - Archosaur on
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I made a post here comparing different builds. Check the section for the "average" player. There are links to PWICalc (it's just not visible because links have the same colour as the text after the forums changed colours).

    A few things to note down however:

    - These builds are not absolute; differences may occur such as having a 200 Vit build instead of 100 Vit build like in my calculator. You can play around with that.

    - The builds have the buffs enabled; for the same reasons as stated at the bottom of that post. I know there are people who say 1v1 should be self-buffed but..depends on what you do in the game.

    - These builds were made before new Horizons so additional stat points, Nuema, Passives and War Avatars are not taken into consideration but the basic point still stands in theory since all Venomancers gain the same bonuses: more attack, more defences, more crit, more HP, more stats to play with... therefore HA/LA builds can have more attack now whilst AA Vit builds can get more HP or add more attack if they see fit.

    Something to keep in mind is that Nuema/War Avatars give more magic defence to Venomancers than physical defence.

    - Vit AA build is generally cheaper than a HA build. A HA build needs more investment to work, you need good refines because your Vit is 3. Same goes for pure magic AA builds and LAs (or else you be squishy). Vit AA builds can get away with lower gear refines if they can't afford it while still having a decent amount of HP without sacrificing too much damage. Additionally, refining a weapon is cheaper than refining a whole set of armor so a Vit build with a +10 weapon will actually have equal or slightly more damage than a pure magic AA build with lower weapon refine....

    Look at a AA pure magic build like this vs. a Vit build like this. Notice how they have similar HP/magic.
    Of course this depends on; how much Event Gold you have or you can get (+7 is easy to get if you have Event Gold) and how much Dragon Orbs cost on your server..and also how much Vit you actually put (can be more than 100).




    In the end, it comes down to opinion, preferences and use-age. I don't think it's a bad build but whether you think it's ideal for you or not, that's something you'll have to decide on your own. One thing I can say for sure, however, is that it's a good choice for cheap builds.

    PS. Apparently evolved pet damage is only calculated based on your weapon/rings/shards and not your base magic attack therefore someone with +12 weapon pure magic build and someone with +12 weapon Vit build/HA/Whatever can have pets with similar attack power. On the other hand.. the HP of the pets is affected by the Venomancer's HP therefore Vit build Venomancers have pets with more HP.

    HP = (Venomancer's HP/ Venomancer's Level)x(a constant number = 24) + Pet HP stat = overall HP of the pet
    5% bonuses from equipment seem to not affect the pets.

    Attack = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Magic attack adds + Shards)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack stat = overall attack power of the pet

    Defence = (Equipment + Resistance Adds + Shards)x(Inherit Coefficient) = overall defence of the pet
    Includes both physical and magic defence.

    Defence/Attack Level = (Venomancer's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient) = overall Defense/Attack level of the pet
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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  • Raujada - ArchosaurRaujada - Archosaur Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited June 2014
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - HarshlandsXx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I have a vit build on my veno, but I'm on a PVP server and only play her for TW mainly, I never considered veno as pure DD so I don't mind if I don't do as much damage than let's say my pure magic mystic, but that's for me since I play purely support and mainly for TW.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Marengo - Lost CityMarengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    In short:

    Vit build is better for pvp if your refines are not too high (less than +10).
    Also it may prove really worthy in end game +12 josd, cards (but I'm only guessing, since I'm far from that yet)
    Mostly support build if you are not interested in dd and 1v1

    Go for Pure mag if you are:
    PvE mostly
    PvP, but hp is not less than 10k unbuffed, 10k pdef in human

    Only my opinion, because I know a lot of full vit venos who are not fully endgame but not nv+7 either :)
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  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I just restatted my pure mag rrr9+10 veno from 787 mag to 300 mag.
    Min mag, min str, min dex, max vit. So I'm currently sitting at 680vit. As for my mag attack, it went down with over a half from what it used to be, obviously.
    Veno's are a good DD class, one of the tankiest casters for that matter. But in mass PK (TW/NW) I always play full support which means staying in fox form and debuffing and purging the **** out of everything. For this, I think vitbuild fits better, since the amount of DDing is minimal.

    I rarely do 1v1 PKing anymore cus in Archo server the PK is pretty much non exsistant at this point. For venos who 1v1 alot I would say pure mag is the best bet, but for people like me who mainly mass PK, I'd say vit build is the way to go. Veno's gain most HP from 1vit compared to other casters, too.

    I still haven't been to TW/NW after restatting, but I can imagine having a lot more fun with 24K HP/31K buffed, than I did when I was full mag, and alot squishier. Having all that vit boosts up pdef (and mdef too) which is nice, especially in fox form.

    As for PvE, it's really a matter of taste I suppose. Do you wish to deal more damage or not? If the dmg reduction doesnt bother you and you like the survivability, then vit build is nice there, too.

    These are my stats in fox form, unbuffed. http://vvcap.net/db/HYNW_DZEcv0ACN5s05Xb.htp
    Now I realise that my build is full vit, and not a vithybrid, so it might not work well with other than endgame gear really. When I was considering and debating wether or not I should go vit, I talked to few of my friends about it, and after agreeing it fits my playstyle, the advice I got from one of my friends was "just, if you do it, don't half *** it obviously". All or nothing.
    Personal preference. Overall people say full mag with no vit is best for casters but for venos I don't think that's the case.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WannaBM - ArchosaurWannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    If you would use dragon orbs to refine both your weapon and armor, it would be expensive to get your hitpoints from this and it would be better to invest in a significantly higher refined weapon and use some vit for the HPs instead. For example +4 armors/ornies with +8 weapon and some vit to remedy the squichiness would be a good balance assuming you use dragon orbs for all refines.

    You should however not refine armors with dragon orbs if you can get the event gold meeded. (for about 100k per event gold effectively) Use mirage, tisha/tienkang instead at least up to +8. Google "zoho refining sheet" for more info. This reduces the cost for HPs from refines by a factor 3 or so.

    If you do that, your armor refines are so cheap that the principle is reversed. In this case you should spend some frustrating time clicking all those armors and ornies to +7 or higher, not worry much about the expensive higher level weapon refines and leave yourself at base vit.


    So the answer to your question, lays primarily in your willingness and ability to spend 100s of event gold and hours of clicking to refine your non-weapon stuff like this.

    Then of course as stated above comes the matter op opinion if higher end PvP toons should have vit, but the vast majority seems to answer this with a NO except for catabarbs. The majority is not always right though, but you can only decide that for yourself.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Raujada - ArchosaurRaujada - Archosaur Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rixoth: you're the living proof that female barbarians exist!! this is completely amazing! O_O I could never imagined such a build for a veno. Ok for survability, but this is legendary. I don't know if I really like the idea to reduce my damage, but as you said this build looks perfect for pvp. And about pve, you can always rely on you pet for damage. I'm dreaming a veno like this luring a ton of mob, with a harpy to oneshot them all! b:dirty glorious.

    WannaBM: you advices about refinig are extremely preciouss and I think you for this :) the sad thing is that I have only 6 event gold right now. If one day I'll have more, I'll follow your idea.
  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rixoth: you're the living proof that female barbarians exist!! this is completely amazing! O_O I could never imagined such a build for a veno. Ok for survability, but this is legendary. I don't know if I really like the idea to reduce my damage, but as you said this build looks perfect for pvp. And about pve, you can always rely on you pet for damage. I'm dreaming a veno like this luring a ton of mob, with a harpy to oneshot them all! b:dirty glorious.


    So weird that forums wont change the name after namechange in-game. D:

    Anyhow. Pets rarely oneshot anything, lol. I still deal fairly good amount of damage in PvE and so far while doing dailies it hasnt bothered me at all.
    With this build I can't kill anyone in PK if they are equally geared, simply because I now lack the damage. However, people will struggle with killing me too, because of my HP/defences.
    Its hard to tell anyone what they should do with their toons, because I think its all personal preferences. Theres so many different ways of playing a veno, and once you figure out what's yours, you can later on change your build to match your playstyle if necessary. I have been playing this game for over 2 years as a pure mag veno and only now restatted to full vit build. You'll find whats fitting for you, I'm sure.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Desdi, can I marry you? <3 thank you so much, like always!

    Only if the game husband won't find out b:laugh ...but yeah as others have commented, Vit build can be great if it serves your playstyle/preferences. It is also the build of choice for many people that don't have "good gear". I like that Venomancers are versatile and it is because of this that I bothered to try all builds (Vit, Pure, HA, LA) to decide what's the one that works for me. Don't be afraid to experiment (though restat notes aren't as cheap these days >.>).
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Raujada - ArchosaurRaujada - Archosaur Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rixoth/ VaIkyyrie: by the way, what kind of shards do you prefer with this build? Always citrinces, or something else? I think I'll be a vit hybrid after all, with 100 or a little more vit.

    Desdi: wedding challenge accepted. b:angry but yes, find reset notes for a fair price is impossible in these days... luckily we have reawkening, we can always try a build during our first life, another in the second and decide for the decisive in the third. And in the middle time we can always grind to find decent gears.
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    ...luckily we have reawkening, we can always try a build during our first life, another in the second and decide for the decisive in the third. And in the middle time we can always grind to find decent gears.

    That's how I got my HA Psychic b:cool
    It was mostly done for the lolz and to be able to borrow game husband's Seeker gear because my Psychic lacks proper gear currently(it's a long story why I made my G16 Nirvana as TT...Psychic's on another account...
    ). She still has one more Reawakening available to go back to the AA build..so yep, the rebirth feature is definitely and option haha.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Vedovis - Lost CityVedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I've read somewhere about this build. Anybody use it? Is it worth to sacrifice some (or a lot?) magic damage and defence in change of hp? Do you have to rely more on your pets for adding damage? How do you play in pvp and pve?

    I'm trying to understand what's the best build for poor people who wants to be useful anyway. :P

    I restatted to full vit after +10ing my R9R3 set - I participate a lot in pk [open map pk and events/TW] and I found the extra HP to be a complete lifesaver. Being a veno, my "job" is to run in, purge & amp, myriad and run back to dodge attacks - full support. Restatting to full vit gave me around 3-4k extra HP base - the extra HP gives me more availability to get away or save myself when it would have been a death blow.

    I am so happy with my decision - venos are not the most amazing DD class to begin with, especially in PVP. I found my damage to be pretty much a nonfactor in the few times I would DD out of fox form, now it's even more nonfactor. As far as pets are concerned, I mostly used my monkey in PVE and PVP, its damage is quite nice on mobs & squishing lowbies. I recently acquired a harpy which should assist even more in my PVE damage, once I finish levelling & evolving it.

    Sadly I've not yet finished restatting nor refining [or levelling :(], I'm sure after I finish those up it'll be even more of a lifesaver.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Shadowvzss - HarshlandsShadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I am so happy with my decision - venos are not the most amazing DD class to begin with, especially in PVP. I found my damage to be pretty much a nonfactor in the few times I would DD out of fox form, now it's even more nonfactor..

    i thougth same until don't met in nw with venos who killed in seconds (idk but dealed fast and decent good damage for was able to kill me before waked up what happened :D)

    but in support role i understand really, fox's often target in tw too because purge is dangerous to puller
  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rixoth/ VaIkyyrie: by the way, what kind of shards do you prefer with this build? Always citrinces, or something else? I think I'll be a vit hybrid after all, with 100 or a little more vit.

    I used garnet/citrine mix in my G16 armor, but for my rrr9 I have sharded with vitstones, so I get 40 extra vit per armor piece. Still have chest to shard, though. And one in cape. So I will gain about 50 more vit once my sharding is done. I did refining first. When I got all my gear to +10, I started buying vitstones. If youre going to be a vithybrid, for your endgame shards I'd say vitstones, since they give HP and physical and magical defences. Citrines give just HP, garnets just pdef.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vedovis - Lost CityVedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited June 2014

    I used garnet/citrine mix in my G16 armor, but for my rrr9 I have sharded with vitstones, so I get 40 extra vit per armor piece. Still have chest to shard, though. And one in cape. So I will gain about 50 more vit once my sharding is done. I did refining first. When I got all my gear to +10, I started buying vitstones. If youre going to be a vithybrid, for your endgame shards I'd say vitstones, since they give HP and physical and magical defences. Citrines give just HP, garnets just pdef.

    I agree. I'm not vit stone yet, just perfect citrine, but they're my next "goal" after +10ing my helm and cape.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    | Signature made by Fishy!~ | Semiretired |
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Vit stones.

    If those are out of reach, I'd usually recommend simple citrines of whatever kind (not citrine gems though, I don't think they make a big difference vs. just incomparable citrines from weeklies for their price).

    Alternatively, a mix of citrines and garnets. I would shard garnets if physical defence is really low but good ornaments + nuema/waravatar/meridian + vit build should be good enough (OP Assassins don't count..). Then consider you can get up to 3 physical defence buffs (sure they can be purged off but...just sayin'..). However, it really depends on what you feel its best for your toon and what opponents you usually fight.

    If we're talking about just G16 Nirvana gear, you might want to go for a mix. Before R9rr and NW Cube necklace, I had G16 Nirvana +7 with 4 pieces garnets and 2 pieces citrines.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Full magic is the best build, no doubt, and every veno should restat to that build b:cute
  • Marengo - Lost CityMarengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Being a veno, my "job" is to run in, purge & amp, myriad and run back...
    To sz? :D

    On the other hand, why should full vit veno run back if she is full vit? HP should afford her to stay alive longer without any running. If you can't do it anyway, what's the point?
    Concerning ouDDing someone, are you in official competition and it is the matter of principle to deal more damage than that psychic or mage? b:chuckle
    Full magic is the best build, no doubt, and every veno should restat to that build
    b:cute xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Full magic is the best build, no doubt, and every veno should restat to that build b:cute


    After playing two years as a pure mag veno, and now radically restatting to full vit build, after some time of playing PvE/TW/NW, I definetly enjoy full vit build more. 32k HP fully buffed in foxform with puri proc on wep is amazing to me. Then again, it fits my playstyle, so -shrug-. As stated before, it's personal preference. I wouldn't restat back to pure mag anymore. I'm more useful alive in TW being able to take waaaay more hits, than as a squishy pure mag veno.
    As for PvE, before I could oneshot pretty much every daily quest mob, now it takes me 2-3 shots, and it doesnt bother me at all. Obviously soloing bosses or w/e takes more time now, but on the other hand I can tank better than before.

    However, if I were to be a veno who 1v1 PK's alot, pure mag build would be the best bet.

    Saying that every veno should be a pure mag is just utter BS though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    To sz? :D

    On the other hand, why should full vit veno run back if she is full vit? HP should afford her to stay alive longer without any running. If you can't do it anyway, what's the point?
    Concerning ouDDing someone, are you in official competition and it is the matter of principle to deal more damage than that psychic or mage? b:chuckle


    b:cute xD

    I think they meant more like kiting. As a support class such as veno, especially if vit build, I don't see a point sitting in a crowd of people if all your debuffs are in cooldown since youre a crappy DD anyway. Run in, debuff, kite to africa till cd's are done. Obviously speaking of mass PK here, as being a fullvit is pretty much useless in 1v1.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014



    Saying that every veno should be a pure mag is just utter BS though.

    Not sure if Azura was just trolling or changed builds. He was/is a Vit build as far as I know.


    On another note, the OP didn't seem to be going for R9rr judging by their comment so I considered G16 Nirvana when writing my comments/posts. I'm not sure if bringing R9rr into the discussion too much, is relevant.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Not sure if Azura was just trolling or changed builds. He was/is a Vit build as far as I know.

    Wouldn't know, different server, and I don't pay attention to whats happening outside Arhosaur server
    b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014

    Wouldn't know, different server, and I don't pay attention to whats happening outside Arhosaur server
    b:chuckle

    I'm just...forum'ing too much.... b:surrender
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I'm just...forum'ing too much.... b:surrender

    And absolutely nothing wrong with that! XD I'm just lazy, and really only check Archo and veno subforums. :|
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CANUS_MAJOR - ArchosaurCANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    As a barb, i would say going vit is awesome in mass pvp for venos, especially in tw. Increases ur survivability by quite alot for a caster class. But the vit build supports a more defensive/support playstyle, so it really depends on ur style of gameplay. Rix, I never knew u went vit thts pretty awesome, my veno is HA with vit stones, so when it comes to havin more hp im a lil biased b:laugh

    Even full magic venos still end up doing quite a bit of support work, not because they are incapable of dealing large amounts of damage, but just because how the class has been set up and wht is expected of them from ppl who for the most part havent played a veno.

    Hope tht helps a little bitb:chuckle b:victory
    The loudest person in the room, usually has the least to say... b:chuckle
  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Rix, I never knew u went vit thts pretty awesome, my veno is HA with vit stones, so when it comes to havin more hp im a lil biased b:laugh

    Fite me irl brah.

    Lol, yeah I did. :3 If venos could wear rrr9 HA I would propably do it.
    b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Venomancers that go pure magic R9rr and play wood mage need to have their tails cut.*
    That's the only play style I'll never accept from them. I guess APS builds count too (in PvE) if they don't debuff and just derp APS things. 1v1s are another story.




    * I guess horns or bunny ears if there's a lack of tail XD
    ** Unless enemy is undergeared...won't really need debuffs then.
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  • CANUS_MAJOR - ArchosaurCANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    rrr9 ha veno...b:dirty not gonna lie if this was a possibility i might try for it haha
    The loudest person in the room, usually has the least to say... b:chuckle
  • Vedovis - Lost CityVedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    To sz? :D

    On the other hand, why should full vit veno run back if she is full vit? HP should afford her to stay alive longer without any running. If you can't do it anyway, what's the point?
    Concerning ouDDing someone, are you in official competition and it is the matter of principle to deal more damage than that psychic or mage? b:chuckle


    b:cute xD

    That is amusing coming from a venomancer I have literally never seen in PK. Please, tell me more about how to improve when you do not even help your faction in that way yourself. /cough 81 v 41/

    Running back allows the stronger, tankier people on my team to take ganks & hits that I may not survive. Like I said, not finished with my gear yet.
    I think they meant more like kiting. As a support class such as veno, especially if vit build, I don't see a point sitting in a crowd of people if all your debuffs are in cooldown since youre a crappy DD anyway. Run in, debuff, kite to africa till cd's are done. Obviously speaking of mass PK here, as being a fullvit is pretty much useless in 1v1.

    Precisely what I meant. Someone here has common sense.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    | Signature made by Fishy!~ | Semiretired |
  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Precisely what I meant. Someone here has common sense.

    I wouldn't put much emphasis on my sayings, I'm the one who thought bunnies lay eggs. b:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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