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Don't Bramble in TW?

DraknessDuir - SanctuaryDraknessDuir - Sanctuary Posts: 81 Arc User
edited June 2014 in Venomancer
After 4-5 years of having it drilled into me to always bramble everyone I see in TW, someone in my faction has said Venos should ask certain classes whether they want to be brambled - those classes being BM, Wizard, and Archer. The reason given is "Whenever bramble triggers on someone u get slightly turned to face more towards the direction u were hit from, this can cause u to leap in unexpected directions and sometimes even leap directly into the enemy and die"

Has anyone ever told you, as a Veno, NOT to bramble them in TW?
Post edited by DraknessDuir - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • krisndakrisnda Forum cat Posts: 4,654 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    As a veno that's been in some TW's back in the day, I've never heard of such a reasoning. Seems really weird to me.
  • opkossyopkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    They ARE right about that effect. Bramble is considered your character making a melee attack on whoever hit them (and this is why bramble reflects can crit as well).

    But the pros of bramble far outweigh that minor con and any decently skilled player won't even consider that as a problem.
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  • Socqar - Lost CitySocqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    opkossy wrote: »
    They ARE right about that effect. Bramble is considered your character making a melee attack on whoever hit them (and this is why bramble reflects can crit as well).

    But the pros of bramble far outweigh that minor con and any decently skilled player won't even consider that as a problem.

    Some EA's would, at least I would... TW can get laggy, leaps are nearly our only scape from certain attacks (sins break dance....)

    In that situation u don't want to leap into the enemie squad... Love it when I'm defence squad though ^^
  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Yeah no thanks to bramble.

    The damage reflect isn't as effective/benficial as it used to be when there were more squishy aps sin's running around.

    Archer leaps are left/right, usually these are better utilised to leap back/forward to quickly get out of a frontline gank.

    I have E and Q as right/left leap keybinds so I hit D then E to leap back or A and Q to leap back.

    When getting hit by several people triggering the bramble reflect within the tiny delay between me hitting D to face a direction and then hitting E to leap, a reflect triggering can change the direction my toon is facing, and end up leaping the wrong way which can be fatal.

    With other classes there is less delay between the leap as they will leap the direction they are already facing so this is still an issue but less troublesome I guess.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Heh that's something to keep in mind. I'll have to ask my squad next time; they never brought this up so I just buffed everyone without asking.
    Though it seems my squads in particular were usually heavy on casters but now that I'm in offence more often I get more melees/archers.
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  • Socqar - Lost CitySocqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Yeah no thanks to bramble.

    The damage reflect isn't as effective/benficial as it used to be when there were more squishy aps sin's running around.

    Archer leaps are left/right, usually these are better utilised to leap back/forward to quickly get out of a frontline gank.

    I have E and Q as right/left leap keybinds so I hit D then E to leap back or A and Q to leap back.

    When getting hit by several people triggering the bramble reflect within the tiny delay between me hitting D to face a direction and then hitting E to leap, a reflect triggering can change the direction my toon is facing, and end up leaping the wrong way which can be fatal.

    With other classes there is less delay between the leap as they will leap the direction they are already facing so this is still an issue but less troublesome I guess.

    Using same configuration and use, and getting same troubles xD good not to feel alone xD
  • Zanryu - LothranisZanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    To be fair the only classes you'd need to consider asking would be Archers, Wizards, and Blademasters. They're the only classes with true leaps, and even then this is only an issue if they're frozen AND being hit by melee attacks.

    I wouldn't say it's too much of an issue honestly, though sometimes it can really **** you over.
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  • Socqar - Lost CitySocqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    To be fair the only classes you'd need to consider asking would be Archers, Wizards, and Blademasters. They're the only classes with true leaps, and even then this is only an issue if they're frozen AND being hit by melee attacks.

    I wouldn't say it's too much of an issue honestly, though sometimes it can really **** you over.

    Indeed, but as Dark said, archers need to turn to one or other side to leap forward or backwards, awkward way of leaping er have.... So we're extremely sensitive with having it altered :P
  • Marengo - Lost CityMarengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    *writes down* Always blame veno if you die, brambled or not.
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  • Socqar - Lost CitySocqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    *writes down* Always blame veno if you die, brambled or not.
    b:laugh
    Always blame the veno! Gave me bramble, didn't purge target, didn't turn target into a fluffy thing.... Veno fault :D
  • Asterelle - SanctuaryAsterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    That's the reason I don't like being brambled in PV. It's not quite as bad an issue in TW. However, with the bramble damage nerf against skills and all melees spamming their primal skills now bramble isn't nearly as effective as it used to be. I can see people thinking it's not worth the risk for TW.
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  • krisndakrisnda Forum cat Posts: 4,654 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    You learn something new every day xD.
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - HarshlandsXx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    As mystic I want bramble in TW/NW (though lately it's pretty useless in TW, but still can get fail aps sin/bm to kill themselves on it in NW), but in PVE I hate bramble, it's the worst buff you can give a mystic, my skill 100 Lucky Break make the next hit a crit, but bramble can proc on it (yes bramble can crit) so if I get hit with my Lucky Break on before I was able to use my skill it waste the crit on the bramble which is a pain in the butt in PVE.

    So in PVE I need to constantly ask the venos to don't bramble me, but in TW/NW constantly need to ask it, as I said in TW it's not really a big deal for me, but in NW it is useful.

    For TW I'd say if you are always with the same squad then ask who want it or not, if your squad change constantly then ask them before who want it or not or tell them to ask you for it if they want it. Beside clerics, mystic and barb (or cata puller) it's not a huge deal for the others to be bramble, usually in TW people are enough geared to don't kill themselves on bramble, but it's always useful in case a noob aps sin try to aps a cleric or mystic.
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  • Raujada - ArchosaurRaujada - Archosaur Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Always blame the veno! Gave me bramble, didn't purge target, didn't turn target into a fluffy thing.... Veno fault :D

    "Omg you no have Herc?? Wtf fail veno no squad for ya!" b:sad try to buy a Herc on Morai Server, where a single gold cost more than 3.5 kk.

    Anyway. Oh gosh, i didn't know anything about this O_O so the only classes we should bramble are Assassin, Seeker and Barbarian? I read somewhere that Cleric hates brable too, but no one ever told me why.
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    "Omg you no have Herc?? Wtf fail veno no squad for ya!" b:sad try to buy a Herc on Morai Server, where a single gold cost more than 3.5 kk.

    Anyway. Oh gosh, i didn't know anything about this O_O so the only classes we should bramble are Assassin, Seeker and Barbarian? I read somewhere that Cleric hates brable too, but no one ever told me why.

    Bramble used to play a role in keeping aggro back in the days so it was always a must for Barbarians or whoever happened to be tanking. (Same thing applies to Hercules, Bramble used to be an important factor that allowed it keep aggro.)

    Although apparently Bramble itself is not that powerful, people were under the misconception that if you have Bramble on and a monster hits you a couple of times, it will be really hard lose aggro off of it. Because of this, Clerics hated it and the general consensus was not to Bramble the Cleric; they were usually squishy, healing from behind.
    Maybe in some cases it was difficult; monster too strong -> reflected damage was high -> person didn't have enough damage to take aggro... but meh, it really wasn't a big deal but even today there are people that dislike/hate Bramble due to misconceptions. The points in this thread at least make sense.

    The best thing to do is ask or people tell you they don't want bramble beforehand.
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  • Rixoth - ArchosaurRixoth - Archosaur Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I guess this can be a bit of a problem to some archers/bms/wizzies indeed. But I never came across this. Infact, the people considered this servers best archers pm me often to bramble them in TW/NW/PK/for PV. -shrug-
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