New Horizons PvP balance

XXHotXx - Morai

i personally dont agree with the wizard nerf...

i mean every class has its role, wizard role was to aoe nuke (limited to mass pvp scenarios) or single target burst

if you take away the single target burst wiz class has almost nothing...

call me a noob, not knowing my class w.e., but nowadays you cant kill sht (bypass) with frostflames, sandfalls or w.e.

we do have high res, that was required to sustain our channelling\cast times
but wizard is one of the few classes that suffers the fact to always get purged w\o chance to purge back or to rebuff\damage reduce, therefore leading the wiz to fight with self buff res values against his full buffed target

anyway about psys, its about time that soul of vengeance and soul of silence should really be self buffs.
i found myself fighting an equal geared seeker with endgame psy buffs, and its like fighting 2 classes in one = almost unkillable

@Euzebe: try eruption fist, elemental weakness

and anyways psys and wizards have almost identical magic damage output, cause at endgame its all about the base magic damage (and not the skill damage itself)

f.e.: my stone rain has same damage output as my sandstorm and as your landslide

(at endgame psys and wizard has both around 40k base mag damage therefore:

sandstorm damage = 40000 + 300% + 6000
stone rain = 40000 + 200% + 4800

landslide = 40000 + 100% + 5041
sandburst = 40000 + 200% + 4000

lets check nukes:

bid: 40000 + 500% + 13955
stone smasher: 40000 + 400% + 10253

the single skill damage output of wizard and psy is identical)


point is psy can dps that damage, wizard cant.
cause psy skills have chan+cast time of 1-2 seconds and our skills having cast time of 3-5 secs

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i believe sins can manage their chi to keep up a stunlock pretty well xD prolly its the class with the best chi management ability in game,
cmon which other class got a CC skill that actually gives half a spark back XD

also spark-boom-ur-dead combo on sage sins? that never happened even before New Horizons, you know sage tidal doesnt make undine either spark very viable to be used

but now in that 30 seconds tidal mirror, assumed sin has stealth down, deaden nerves down, genie down, apothecary down, def charms down (impossibru), a spark wont still bypass him due to def passives

You do realize you can land debuffs through sage tidal right? Or are you too stupid to even try? You wouldnt beleive how many sage sins I've killed THAT OUT GEAR ME A LOT (3-4 refine lvs and they have g12 shards while im running flawless) by taking chances on debuffs and it pays off.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

I fully agree on psy buffs maybe being self only.

I've run an Eruption Fist + Elemental Weakness genie before, but had to stop that since I rely on genie so much for survivability. I expect the EW portion is even weaker now with the def passive in effect.

Our base numbers are somewhat similar on the surface, but that extra 100% damage on a +12 r999 wep for example on SS and BT/BIDS/MS in concert with reliable, no-low cost debuffs really shines.

With our chan low and cast high, you benefit way more from -chan, although on most skills Psys still release slightly faster.

Psy of course have a 22/25 attack level advantage though, but can't honestly say it makes up for the damage gap.

XXHotXx - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You do realize you can land debuffs through sage tidal right? Or are you too stupid to even try? You wouldnt beleive how many sage sins I've killed THAT OUT GEAR ME A LOT (3-4 refine lvs and they have g12 shards while im running flawless) by taking chances on debuffs and it pays off.

you do realize we cant spam spark trough sage tidal lol,

i am not a sage sin, so yea a sage sin can take his chances against another sage sin, a wiz cant anymore after New Horizons endgame...

lets say i spam and land undine (not even talking about spark cause sparking a sage tidaled one is just ****, waste of genie\resources you have to save em to maintain survivability against best dph to dps class in game, and in the remote luck you land spark sin still has plenty of counters that go beyond soul of fire like:

stealth purify
deaden nerves
2x channelling interrupt
countless CCs )

when i land undine its not anymore a 60% debuff indeed it's a 24,60% debuff, thats nothing @ current endgame, consider also wiz cant purge a sin, that 26,40% is really really nothing

(FYI: 24,60% res debuff doesnt mean 24,60% more damage,
lets say you have 20000 elemental res on self buffs + passives its 84% damage reduction
you get undine you have 15080 elemtal res that is 79,50% damage reduction

if you are full buffed calculations are even more complicated and i dont really know but the redux would be even less)

@Euzebe: 100% weapon damage is like kind of 3000 damage add, not much if you consider base mag damage
but yea i believe, psys should have something like undine strike, and wizards should have at least psychics chan+cast times
also i agree about EF and EW being really obsolete as debuffs noways with passives they will reduce resistances for like 10%, thats negligible

Euzebe - Sanctuary

The days of debuffs are gone, tis the day of amps.

Dragslave - Dreamweaver

Way to kill a sin as a wizard:
Kite him till tidal is off, while poking with dot's and **** to tick deaden, when tidal off, 2 shot him with.... anything

But i do agree wizards need a boost on spark or undine, only reason wizards can hit hard is because of that debuffs, so either improve them, or give us a +30 att level buff, if seekers can have the def one, why cant we have an att one XD

XXHotXx - Morai

Dragslave - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Way to kill a sin as a wizard:
Kite him till tidal is off, while poking with dot's and **** to tick deaden, when tidal off, 2 shot him with.... anything

But i do agree wizards need a boost on spark or undine, only reason wizards can hit hard is because of that debuffs, so either improve them, or give us a +30 att level buff, if seekers can have the def one, why cant we have an att one XD

i would be ok with casting time\ channelling time significant cuts, they took away from us the ability to dph efficiently, they should at least give us chance to dps now

anyway i didnt want this thread to become a wiz vs sin thread

so i'd like to hear more opinions from other class users aswell

(@Dragslave: 2 shot an endgame sin? if you 2shot him means he has a heavy gear disadvantage, also when tidal is down they will most likely kite you\stealth you\apothecary-genie)

Euzebe - Sanctuary

You still got sutra up your sleeve for burst DPS. If wizzies get access to a low cost DPS option, it might be unbalanced like how seekers can spam their combo every 30 odd seconds or so, in my opinion. The update has already provided wiz with access to steady chi gain and increased crit rate, although at the expense of stone barrier.

Cantabrum - Archosaur

dont try to debuff a sage tidal is called beegin mentally weak this is more of a mentallity status where people dont even wanna try do somenthing couse they to affraid of fail

Quilue - Sanctuary

Kevyy - Harshlands wrote: »

tbh mages spark did not need a nurf. You can easily counter it with a genie or purify skill. It wasnt game breaking. I'm not surprised to see sins being the power house in this update considering these are the same devs that made the class.

If it's not game breaking then give every physical damage class an armor break. You can use genie to counter.

XXHotXx - Morai

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If it's not game breaking then give every physical damage class an armor break. You can use genie to counter.

i believe that demon venos and high str mires or devour have almost the same spark utility

@ canta: i wont waste half of my genie energy for a 33% chance to land a debuff that its not "substantial" as it was before and also can be easily countered afterwards

@ euze: then they should boost our dph giving us like 150% base mag damage or smt skills

Kevyy - Harshlands

spark so game breaking mang. I resist that shet all dayyyyyyy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-jXul1FgUI&list=UUiZNyjo5so5Q8U5nSgr3Fvg

Zaniah - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i would be ok with casting time\ channelling time significant cuts, they took away from us the ability to dph efficiently, they should at least give us chance to dps now

anyway i didnt want this thread to become a wiz vs sin thread

so i'd like to hear more opinions from other class users aswell

(@Dragslave: 2 shot an endgame sin? if you 2shot him means he has a heavy gear disadvantage, also when tidal is down they will most likely kite you\stealth you\apothecary-genie)

I agree! Wizards got wrecked this update!

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i would be ok with casting time\ channelling time significant cuts, they took away from us the ability to dph efficiently, they should at least give us chance to dps now

anyway i didnt want this thread to become a wiz vs sin thread

so i'd like to hear more opinions from other class users aswell

(@Dragslave: 2 shot an endgame sin? if you 2shot him means he has a heavy gear disadvantage, also when tidal is down they will most likely kite you\stealth you\apothecary-genie)

Actually since undine is so spammable you can catch a sin off gaurd if you actually try. Remember sins have good chi maintenece, NOT infinate chi. Eventually they are going to slip up. You just have to increase your chances of that happening, much like a sin vs another sin. Force your opponent to make mistakes, and make them pay.

One example is i normally fight a mystic on my server that uses an absorb soul combo. It can 1 shot me, but...not if i use ToP. Eventually he noticed the timing and forced me to blow my genie early by holding his absorb soul for a few seconds more. He did not get the max damage, however he was able to kill me this time by tricking me into using my resources early.

XXHotXx - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually since undine is so spammable you can catch a sin off gaurd if you actually try. Remember sins have good chi maintenece, NOT infinate chi. Eventually they are going to slip up. You just have to increase your chances of that happening, much like a sin vs another sin. Force your opponent to make mistakes, and make them pay.

One example is i normally fight a mystic on my server that uses an absorb soul combo. It can 1 shot me, but...not if i use ToP. Eventually he noticed the timing and forced me to blow my genie early by holding his absorb soul for a few seconds more. He did not get the max damage, however he was able to kill me this time by tricking me into using my resources early.

endgame mystics have one hell of mag dps in my opinion they can seriously burst people down better than how wizards can do atm

you right about spammability of undine, but that debuff is nerfed as all debuffs are..
(24,60% real redux instead of 60%)
also you can manage chi heavy CCing the target, gaining time for chi skills cooldowns to come up

also i forgot to reply to who said that we got more chi - more crit
those shields are really not viable in pvp, if you wear them @ endgame pvp the wiz will be dead in matter of seconds (except if arcane vs arcane, but at that point the fight is always kind of endless)

Auerlius - Archosaur

from the cleric point of view it is worthless to fight a sage sin or end game barb. the debuffs that we rely on to do damage was nerfed immensely by this expansion. instead of giving us friggin' buffs [the fast chi party buff was a nice touch i completely agree] and bubbles, we should have gotten new debuffs this expansion the help balance things out with the passives.