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ablabahabla wrote: »the thing is sins will use more and your 70k pdef goes down to maybe 40k or even less, combineing it with subsea makes it rly hit hard, but to bypass a charm the target shouldnt have used a reduce phys dmg apo charm.
TBH without those reduce by 50 or 67% charms anything will drop in secs by sins, but also by any other char. PK wihtout those charms nowadays is just **** because the dmg output is too high. If u check youtube for some sin vids u can see rinc hitting endgame barbs for 30ks with old skills and for 13ks with the new aps skills ...
if u used a def charm u'll lol about the dmg but without u sure will QQ
Only bad is farming the good def. charms is hard as **... Will have to figure how to craft myself cheaper/Easier to farm ones to just spam them... I have a hard time farming the mag.def.charms already... U.U0 -
Evryn - Morai wrote: »
I've only got one gripe with sins truly, and that's their status evasion skill. There's no tradeoff to it.
It can't be up 100% of the time. Unlike the mystic buffs. Tradeoff means no downside, the fact you have to go without it until it can be reapplied, IS a downside. >.>0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »It can't be up 100% of the time. Unlike the mystic buffs. Tradeoff means no downside, the fact you have to go without it until it can be reapplied, IS a downside. >.>
Tradeoff means there is a downside. When you do a tradeoff, it's where you loose something to gain something else.
You don't exactly loose anything by not having the skill up, aka no tradeoff. I mean your defense is not literally reduced by not having the skill up, however your suvivability chance is increased greatly when the skill finally is up.
If you count such thing as cooldown as a downside, you could argue for any skill having a downside. Yes even the mystic buff (I suppose you were thinking about demon verdant shell?) has a downside then. Just like the sin skill, the cooldown is longer time than the duration of the status evasion (so no, it cant be up 100% of the time). Yea yea the gap is shorter for the mystic, but the skill is also way less effective. Oh, and rebuffing every time would take a bit off DD too.This is a test0 -
ablabahabla wrote: »the thing is sins will use more and your 70k pdef goes down to maybe 40k or even less, combineing it with subsea makes it rly hit hard, but to bypass a charm the target shouldnt have used a reduce phys dmg apo charm.
TBH without those reduce by 50 or 67% charms anything will drop in secs by sins, but also by any other char. PK wihtout those charms nowadays is just **** because the dmg output is too high. If u check youtube for some sin vids u can see rinc hitting endgame barbs for 30ks with old skills and for 13ks with the new aps skills ...
if u used a def charm u'll lol about the dmg but without u sure will QQ
charms.. really now ... what good is a def charm when they have a cd too .. sure u mite make ONE of those 12 hits that happen in 2 second window from the new sin skills ... What about the rest of the 11 hits ? per say to me if all those hits zc ur looking at 11*9k dmg ... so yeah .. the f... u do with a pdeff charm...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Testxvl - Sanctuary wrote: »Tradeoff means there is a downside. When you do a tradeoff, it's where you loose something to gain something else.
You don't exactly loose anything by not having the skill up, aka no tradeoff. I mean your defense is not literally reduced by not having the skill up, however your suvivability chance is increased greatly when the skill finally is up.
If you count such thing as cooldown as a downside, you could argue for any skill having a downside. Yes even the mystic buff (I suppose you were thinking about demon verdant shell?) has a downside then. Just like the sin skill, the cooldown is longer time than the duration of the status evasion (so no, it cant be up 100% of the time). Yea yea the gap is shorter for the mystic, but the skill is also way less effective. Oh, and rebuffing every time would take a bit off DD too.
You forget that sins have to make a choice. Damage evasion, or status evasion, demons get a little of both. 2 skills that share the same cd, and don't have 100% uptime. It forces you to make a choice that mystics don't have to make. That's the downside imo, but it does add a bit more complexity to the class, and differentiates the great sins from the mediocre.Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »charms.. really now ... what good is a def charm when they have a cd too .. sure u mite make ONE of those 12 hits that happen in 2 second window from the new sin skills ... What about the rest of the 11 hits ? per say to me if all those hits zc ur looking at 11*9k dmg ... so yeah .. the f... u do with a pdeff charm...
Life Hunter is 2 hits over 2.5 secs.
Elimination is 5 hits over 3 secs.
Cursed Jail is4 hits over 2.5 secs. Please read the actual skills, I have one of them >.>
Also def charms work like such:
Charm activated->(cd) charm remains active-->hit (charm used)->charm reactivated right after use->take second hit->CD
So you can block 2 hits in a row if you activated a charm and it was off cd before you were hit again.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Life Hunter is 2 hits over 2.5 secs.
Elimination is 5 hits over 3 secs.
Cursed Jail is4 hits over 2.5 secs. Please read the actual skills, I have one of them >.>
Also def charms work like such:
Charm activated->(cd) charm remains active-->hit (charm used)->charm reactivated right after use->take second hit->CD
So you can block 2 hits in a row if you activated a charm and it was off cd before you were hit again.
11 .. 12 .. who cares.. point is it doesnt matter what u do ur dead anyway...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I love how everyone blames the new skills and don't even suspect of blaming themselves for their own incompetence. After all, I'm pretty sure we've all adapted to Purify by now. If you can't keep up, don't drag down those who can.0
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Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »11 .. 12 .. who cares.. point is it doesnt matter what u do ur dead anyway...
You do realize you can stop them mid skill right? The only on that stop you from stunning or silencing them is cursed jail.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »You do realize you can stop them mid skill right? The only on that stop you from stunning or silencing them is cursed jail.
you do realise sins have tidal... and on top of that.. if they catch u with 1 stun thats it ..I love how everyone blames the new skills and don't even suspect of blaming themselves for their own incompetence. After all, I'm pretty sure we've all adapted to Purify by now. If you can't keep up, don't drag down those who can.
purify doesnt kill any1 faster than ur charm works .... so you can adapt to that .. try adapating to pking vs charmed sins with no charm on yourself ? have fun trying[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
To be fair, PKing vs charmed anything while uncharmed is putting yourself at a disadvantage anyways. Even back when everyone had low enough HPs that bypassing and racing charms was a much more simple thing to do than it is today.Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »purify doesnt kill any1 faster than ur charm works .... so you can adapt to that .. try adapating to pking vs charmed sins with no charm on yourself ? have fun trying(Insert fancy image here)
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To be fair, PKing vs charmed anything while uncharmed is putting yourself at a disadvantage anyways. Even back when everyone had low enough HPs that bypassing and racing charms was a much more simple thing to do than it is today.
was referring to the fact that even if you HAVE a charm it wont tick at all.. cause those sin skills r too messed up.. So its basically same as trying to fight without one[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »was referring to the fact that even if you HAVE a charm it wont tick at all.. cause those sin skills r too messed up.. So its basically same as trying to fight without one
The problem isn't the sin, it's you. Especially if a sin is charm jumping a bm with these skills. They use intervals, which by it's very nature allows your charm to tick.0 -
You've never been charm bypassed have you?DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »The problem isn't the sin, it's you. Especially if a sin is charm jumping a bm with these skills. They use intervals, which by it's very nature allows your charm to tick.
Also, there's people that been QQing about the BM new skills? Please give me a link to them so I can go laugh.0 -
Rauldaman - Sanctuary wrote: »You've never been charm bypassed have you?
Also, there's people that been QQing about the BM new skills? Please give me a link to them so I can go laugh.
I have, these skills do not work like that. For one they apply damage bit by bit, not at the same time. Which allows you charm to tick.0 -
Dion you must show me those skills I'm dying to see them... Hint hint dying is the key word lol.101/101/102
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred0 -
SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver wrote: »Dion you must show me those skills I'm dying to see them... Hint hint dying is the key word lol.
LMAO! I have cursed jail atm, i know Alona has elimination, and bigknockers has life hunter. TBH im loving cursed jail, the second to last hit sometimes zerks jaded casters for like 10k. I almost 1 shot Evangile and MK in black.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »LMAO! I have cursed jail atm, i know Alona has elimination, and bigknockers has life hunter. TBH im loving cursed jail, the second to last hit sometimes zerks jaded casters for like 10k. I almost 1 shot Evangile and MK in black.
I'm in blacklist xD
Yeah I saw Alona use elimination just a few days ago in West. I really like the animation if all the new skills plus they are very nice too. Like you said the 3 hits are nice specially if one of them zerk. I have been farming for the damn books but so far no luck QQ. (not to mention I still need a **** load of bloods)101/101/102
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred0 -
LOVE HOW ALL THE SINS ARE LAUNCHING A PREEMPTIVE DEFENSE. LMAO.....
k down the matter, there are three things that are killing it right now as far as sins go, that is simply ridiculous no matter how you look at it.
First:
FOREVER CRITICAL (where the crits just keep on comin')
while the rest of us have to decide a trade off for critical increase, LA users do not. and now that there are so many more points to spend on stats e are starting to see critical %'s of 100 that are more or less sustainable. i have addressed this topic in detail in my threads, you can go there for a further read. an increase in critical rates inevitably will increase the amount of crit-zerks which if done in rapid succession, say by a skill that delivers four hits, then we have a problem. instead of making the skill unable to crit or something to mitigate it, they left it as is. guys you have to remember the crew that is designing now made the tideborn, so it is only natural sins are over-overpowered again.
Second:
I AM NOT THE TARGET YOU WERE AIMING FOR (w/ jedi hand wave included)
sage tidal, massive qq bout this one skill, and yet not even a compromise. we all know this is the best defensive skill in the game by leaps and bounds. we all know it is in need of some fine tuning...we all know it'll never happen....next....
Third:
WANT TO BE A PRO? NO SKILL REQUIRED (sin...err i mean sign here)
the skill set in general for sins is massive. stealth was left unchecked for so long that we the players had to make our own in house rules for it's use in pk. now with these new primal skills i kinda feel sorry for all the real pro sins out there. everyone can have what took you months if not years to master with 2 or 3 clicks no less. insta chi, multiple disables with low cd's, deaden and self heal that is automatic. i get the feeling that when they took over [the tideborn devs] they wanted their classes to be more popular than the original ones so they said **** it, let's give them everything.
so you see, this problem has been and will keep occurring until we on this side of things say no more and stop buy anything from them, speak with the only powers you have, your time and your wallet.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »LOVE HOW ALL THE SINS ARE LAUNCHING A PREEMPTIVE DEFENSE. LMAO.....
k down the matter, there are three things that are killing it right now as far as sins go, that is simply ridiculous no matter how you look at it.
First:
FOREVER CRITICAL (where the crits just keep on comin')
while the rest of us have to decide a trade off for critical increase, LA users do not. and now that there are so many more points to spend on stats e are starting to see critical %'s of 100 that are more or less sustainable. i have addressed this topic in detail in my threads, you can go there for a further read. an increase in critical rates inevitably will increase the amount of crit-zerks which if done in rapid succession, say by a skill that delivers four hits, then we have a problem. instead of making the skill unable to crit or something to mitigate it, they left it as is. guys you have to remember the crew that is designing now made the tideborn, so it is only natural sins are over-overpowered again.
Second:
I AM NOT THE TARGET YOU WERE AIMING FOR (w/ jedi hand wave included)
sage tidal, massive qq bout this one skill, and yet not even a compromise. we all know this is the best defensive skill in the game by leaps and bounds. we all know it is in need of some fine tuning...we all know it'll never happen....next....
Third:
WANT TO BE A PRO? NO SKILL REQUIRED (sin...err i mean sign here)
the skill set in general for sins is massive. stealth was left unchecked for so long that we the players had to make our own in house rules for it's use in pk. now with these new primal skills i kinda feel sorry for all the real pro sins out there. everyone can have what took you months if not years to master with 2 or 3 clicks no less. insta chi, multiple disables with low cd's, deaden and self heal that is automatic. i get the feeling that when they took over [the tideborn devs] they wanted their classes to be more popular than the original ones so they said **** it, let's give them everything.
so you see, this problem has been and will keep occurring until we on this side of things say no more and stop buy anything from them, speak with the only powers you have, your time and your wallet.
A self heal that is automatic? Lmao. Go learn to play a sin pls.
And if you want to argue, please stop getting a boner. All classes have balancing issues, or do i need to go down a list?0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »A self heal that is automatic? Lmao. Go learn to play a sin pls.
And if you want to argue, please stop getting a boner. All classes have balancing issues, or do i need to go down a list?
um you have to hit someone for bp to work...what else do you have to do? and my point is exactly that all classes have balancing issues...4 need to be toned down. the others need a little beefing up. go learn how to play a sin? it took me 3 weeks if that long to learn cause they are so easy...just have to time the disables. then i realized...if i win with a sin, how will i know it was me or it was because this lop-sided class is so powerful? answer? i wouldn't.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »um you have to hit someone for bp to work...what else do you have to do? and my point is exactly that all classes have balancing issues...4 need to be toned down. the others need a little beefing up. go learn how to play a sin? it took me 3 weeks if that long to learn cause they are so easy...just have to time the disables. then i realized...if i win with a sin, how will i know it was me or it was because this lop-sided class is so powerful? answer? i wouldn't.
I see so many people saying assassin is easy, but getting rolled saying "wow, you are so lucky with zerc crits".
I highly doubt you could learn to play assassin truly good, because I couldn't yet.Been more than a year since I quit playing, but still on rankings.
PWI: Buff_me - 103 Demon Assassin Banned
PWS: Sin - 105 Sage Assassin Active
My channel: youtube.com/user/SinPWS0 -
I see so many people saying assassin is easy, but getting rolled saying "wow, you are so lucky with zerc crits".
I highly doubt you could learn to play assassin truly good, because I couldn't yet.
then i doubt you know how to strategize. playing a sin is all about disables....time them till your foe expends his resources then click 2 buttons for the finish. it is that hard? if you find people are saying that you got lucky with the zerk crits everytime you win then at some point you gotta realize having a string of crits that turn a 4 soft hit move into a 4 hit horror is a lil OP.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »then i doubt you know how to strategize. playing a sin is all about disables....time them till your foe expends his resources then click 2 buttons for the finish. it is that hard? if you find people are saying that you got lucky with the zerk crits everytime you win then at some point you gotta realize having a string of crits that turn a 4 soft hit move into a 4 hit horror is a lil OP.
Wow, assassin is never only about disabling. I used to have one of the best stun locks on my native server back in aps days.
You can see on my YouTube channel, that I know my class, believe me I play it long enough. But by saying "truly good" I mean people like Zsw or Bait. I am still trying to improve to reach their level.
And you can never say its easy to play assassin for real, you are just another guy who is in mainstream of hating sins.Been more than a year since I quit playing, but still on rankings.
PWI: Buff_me - 103 Demon Assassin Banned
PWS: Sin - 105 Sage Assassin Active
My channel: youtube.com/user/SinPWS0 -
then please explain me why all classes more or less die in mass pvp
and sage sins not even wont die, they wont even get purged
they can outtank, outCC, outchi, outkite, outdph and outdps any class
they have gap closers, forced stealths, running skills, free atk levels, highest chance of zerkcrits, they are debuff-proof (IF in the lucky chance you land a debuff, now with passive skills and the inability to get sins purged, debuffs will be negligible)
+ deaden nerves
they basically have all the features in game. (no other class has all these features)
at this point i really think its not anymore a matter of nerfing sin skills... the whole class needs a go.ddamn rework
what i really cant explain is why devs tried hard to nerf assassins dps with Descent patch,
then they gave them back even more game-breaking dps with New Horizons
its really unexplainable, i wonder if actually the employees that are working into pwi offices have ever played the game
(i know for sure the current PWEU staff did not, i rly hope they dont have the same situation in california aswell)mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
Wow, assassin is never only about disabling. I used to have one of the best stun locks on my native server back in aps days.
You can see on my YouTube channel, that I know my class, believe me I play it long enough. But by saying "truly good" I mean people like Zsw or Bait. I am still trying to improve to reach their level.
And you can never say its easy to play assassin for real, you are just another guy who is in mainstream of hating sins.
lol, i love this. before we continue know that i have a sin, and when i found i was beating people after 3 weeks that were masters of their non-sin toon, that is when i stopped. mainstream of hating sins? just by the essence of there being a mainstream hate, you think all of us are wrong? ok let's assume we are all wrong. you have a sin, have you played it recently to see how much they were actually boosted? and if you did can you honest ly sit there and tell a 22% chance of zerk cits and 100% of crits is balanced? if you can refute all of those points then i don't think there much anyone can tell you cause you know it all.0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »then please explain me why all classes more or less die in mass pvp
and sage sins not even wont die, they wont even get purged
they can outtank, outCC, outchi, outkite, outdph and outdps any class
they have gap closers, forced stealths, running skills, free atk levels, highest chance of zerkcrits, they are debuff-proof (IF in the lucky chance you land a debuff, now with passive skills and the inability to get sins purged, debuffs will be negligible)
+ deaden nerves
they basically have all the features in game. (no other class has all these features)
at this point i really think its not anymore a matter of nerfing sin skills... the whole class needs a go.ddamn rework
what i really cant explain is why devs tried hard to nerf assassins dps with Descent patch,
then they gave them back even more game-breaking dps with New Horizons
its really unexplainable, i wonder if actually the employees that are working into pwi offices have ever played the game
(i know for sure the current PWEU staff did not, i rly hope they dont have the same situation in california aswell)
no they dont. the devs that made this patch are the ones that made the tideborn in the first place, so expect overpowered sins for some time. the descent crewleft....and i am so sad to see them go. their patch was the best out of all.0 -
Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »lol, i love this. before we continue know that i have a sin, and when i found i was beating people after 3 weeks that were masters of their non-sin toon, that is when i stopped. mainstream of hating sins? just by the essence of there being a mainstream hate, you think all of us are wrong? ok let's assume we are all wrong. you have a sin, have you played it recently to see how much they were actually boosted? and if you did can you honest ly sit there and tell a 22% chance of zerk cits and 100% of crits is balanced? if you can refute all of those points then i don't think there much anyone can tell you cause you know it all.
Derp, every time I argue about sins, I forget I am playing pre-NH version of PW.
That's why I can be wrong, I guessBeen more than a year since I quit playing, but still on rankings.
PWI: Buff_me - 103 Demon Assassin Banned
PWS: Sin - 105 Sage Assassin Active
My channel: youtube.com/user/SinPWS0 -
Derp, every time I argue about sins, I forget I am playing pre-NH version of PW.
That's why I can be wrong, I guess
what you are missing is that sins got 3 new skills that land:
5 atks in 1 second 15 sec cd
4 atks in 1 second + stun 30 sec cd
2 atks in 1 second (spammable) 1 sec cd
while sitting in a new chill of the deep
also they are 56% more resistant to damage (not to mention debuffs but well... sage tidal... xD )mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
mypers.pw/1.7/#123524
i58.tinypic.com/231jj8.jpg0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »what you are missing is that sins got 3 new skills that land:
5 atks in 1 second 15 sec cd
4 atks in 1 second + stun 30 sec cd
2 atks in 1 second (spammable) 1 sec cd
while sitting in a new chill of the deep
also they are 56% more resistant to damage (not to mention debuffs but well... sage tidal... xD )
PWE always ruins all the fun. Sin now is a 3 buttons class. b:lipcurlBeen more than a year since I quit playing, but still on rankings.
PWI: Buff_me - 103 Demon Assassin Banned
PWS: Sin - 105 Sage Assassin Active
My channel: youtube.com/user/SinPWS0 -
XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »what you are missing is that sins got 3 new skills that land:
5 atks in 1 second 15 sec cd
4 atks in 1 second + stun 30 sec cd
2 atks in 1 second (spammable) 1 sec cd
while sitting in a new chill of the deep
also they are 56% more resistant to damage (not to mention debuffs but well... sage tidal... xD )
*cough* the price of getting these skills will run you a SoT. Did you forget that too?0
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