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Veno builds after New Horizons

Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Venomancer
Taking short breaks in-between writing for college to lurk forums and I wondered how come nobody has brought up this topic yet especially on a class that people build in all sort of ways.

Reawakening grants you as much as 156 additional points now. Let's assume the average player would go for 103s but that's still a considerable amount of 84 extra points. On top of this War Avatar cards can have magic, strength, dexterity and/or vitality +10 adds among other things including a general boost in attack and defences.

Another thing to consider is the passive skills. I'm not sure how true (or confirmed) it is but apparently you can get up to 56% more defence (physical, magical) and 10% more critical hit ratio. I don't know about the skill damage. Defences cap was also raised to 95%, previously being 90%.

What are your thoughts? What kind of physical defence HA builds can potentially achieve now? What critical hit ratio can LA builds get? What about AA builds getting extra points to use in Vit?

I guess it's kind of early but I wanted to discuss with people foxy alone I've always found it fascinating that you can build a Venomancer in different ways while remaining effective in things you do or give up things to gain other things even though just I'm going to continue the good ol' pure magic build.

Post edited by Desdi - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Vedovis - Lost CityVedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I still think the current 'best' gear/build of AA r9r3 veno will be the best, due to other classes also gaining extra stat points to boost their damage or hp. That being said, HA/AA users especially will benefit well from this update c; and other builds not sticking to the cookiecutter 1str 4mag per level will have more freedom in their stat point allocations, or can boost their magic further to benefit from both high-ish MAG and defences of HA/LA gear.

    Happy New Year, everyveno!~
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Haha, everyveno, I like that!

    If I had the free time I used to have a couple of years ago I might have re-started my old HA Venomancer (which started as LA) for the heck of it. Ain't nobody got time for that though, not even my current alts :(
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  • Vedovis - Lost CityVedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Haha, everyveno, I like that!

    If I had the free time I used to have a couple of years ago I might have re-started my old HA Venomancer (which started as LA) for the heck of it. Ain't nobody got time for that though, not even my current alts :(

    I've gone through all of the alternate veno builds on this poor char.. so much gold spent on equips, and reset notes @[email protected] I'm sort of tempted to restat back to HA/AA after I get max stat points.. as you said, especially with card bonuses and stats, it'll be interesting :3 I only have g16 AA nv atm, r9 ring is my only piece of r9. I still think r9r3 max magic/vit venos will be the 'best' build :( bit of a shame really as venos are so diverse!
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  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Defences cap was also raised to 95%, previously being 90%.

    Source pls :o

    I saw this mentioned a few times and tracked it back to here. Wasn't mentioned in the patch notes unless I've experienced a random selective spout of amnesia. Quite possible.
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  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think this is something upcoming (mentioned in translations of patch notes for China on the Japanese blog.)
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  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    No one had commented anything 'cause they were busy reincarnating b:chuckle

    and this is the 1st time I see this thread too. b:avoid

    Anyway, before the expansion I was almost full vitality. I had 400 magic and 400 vitality... I could had had more vitality, but since I shared my tome with an alt, it was convenient to have more than the minimal magic.

    Now, I decided to cap my vitality at 400, and pour the rest in magic. If I had kept being almost pure vitality, I would had added about 1200 hp more to my current 20,400. I really thought that 1200 hp wouldn't help much more to survive the situations in which I was dying (to survive those situations I would need full josd).

    So now I'm at 515 magic, and something over 400 vit. The increase in attack power has been noticeable. Helps a lot both in pve and pvp.

    I want to add that I have 80 dex and 104 strength. I swear all the dex comes from gears and cards b:shocked. But the 104 strength is for using LA helmet, which I also share with an alt.

  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ah yeah it was supposedly part of the patch notes..somewhere... though it's also true I didn't personally check if the cap was indeed raised. You caught me there D:

    That 80 dex is pretty nice, especially it coming from the gear. Together with Demon Mastery and the crit passive you should get a pretty neat crit ratio.

    I'm sticking to the same build I've had, pure magic. I had some Vit before going R9rr because I was only G16 Nirvana previously. I'm trying to focus on Vit/HP adds and physical defence adds from the cards and whatnot. I'm in no position to get or farm "true endgame" refines or shards (for various reasons) so trying to work with what I can. Hating that the cards so random though. I wish I could choose the ones I want.
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  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Ah yeah it was supposedly part of the patch notes..somewhere... though it's also true I didn't personally check if the cap was indeed raised. You caught me there D:

    Bad Desdi! Spreading false rumours..

    Well, at least it bumped your neglected thread. I will leave you venos to quietly talk amongst yourselves. b:chuckle
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Bad Desdi! Spreading false rumours..

    Well, at least it bumped your neglected thread. I will leave you venos to quietly talk amongst yourselves. b:chuckle

    You can stick around, put some ears and glue a tail...nobody will notice the difference :o
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  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm sticking with a heavy build, but putting all points beyond minimum for heavy armor (Morai G15 set) into mag. I currently have slightly over 400 mag in heavy, slightly more in arcane because my arcane Morai pieces mostly rolled with magic adds. I also wear the Morai G15 heavy helmet, so my mana pool is lower than most venos (currently slightly over 7k MP.)
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  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    You can stick around, put some ears and glue a tail...nobody will notice the difference :o

    I get enough of that being terrorised by half of DWs veno's every NW. b:cry

    Plus I have genocidal tendencies to all things fluffeh tailed. Most recently added to this list the Lemurs in Primal world..

    On topic, r9rr still remains the optimal route for venos as well as all other classes.

    Comparing G16 HA/AA for those that went HA for better survivability this does make the build more viable/effective/rounded for a few reasons;

    1) War Avatar cards & Nuema - these are based on your class so HA venos will benefit massively from getting the mdef boosts and suffer no penalty on m-att boosts.

    2) 152 extra stat points to put into mag, (this is way more than the r9rr set bonus) to pick up that lost m-att

    3) Retain the survivabilty that HA has to offer with the extra boost offered from passive defence skills from Primal (non gear dependant)

    Ofc all these benefit r9rr/G16 AA venos too. Just makes G16 HA builds more well rounded. My opinion.
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  • Regenbogen - Lost CityRegenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    60str for pataka
    rest into magic...
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • Marengo - Lost CityMarengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited January 2014

    I want to add that I have 80 dex and 104 strength. I swear all the dex comes from gears and cards b:shocked. But the 104 strength is for using LA helmet, which I also share with an alt.
    b:shocked You are HA and LA and AA rolled into one b:laugh
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  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    b:shocked You are HA and LA and AA rolled into one b:laugh

    My first build was LA, then switched to HA. After that, I went arcane armor, and now I'm a mix of all the previous builds b:chuckle
  • edited January 2014
    Kitty's using those extra points to get rid of needing str from ornies for HA-gears. And if Kitty has some points to spare, Kitty probably uses them for str to boost DPS as Kitty's mostly PVE-oriented player these days. Kitty might get TT99-HA-ornies to get slight boost to APS and thus DPS(that would make 1,67APS with full T3 gears and magic sword...), of course using elem. ornies when needed to tank some magic damage.
    Kitty's just wondering how terrible DPS she will have, even before reincarnating Kitty outdamaged most T3+10 4APS-sins(unlike most venos Kitty's heard of, Kitty uses debuffs and genie to boost her auto-attack damage to do some hilarious damage).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Final ragequit on 21/02/2014 'cause ARC. Back on 15/04/2014, RL was bored.
    Ten Paths of Kittyness(old mains when deleted): Kittysama 100(100) Sage HA-Venomancer |Aivina 100(101) Sage (ex-Zerk) Str. Seeker | Kittytart 90(101) Demon All path Zerk BM | KittyFishie 92(101) Demon APS/DPH Zerk Assassin | Haroin 100(100) Demon Vit. Zerk Barbarian | Elfborn 82(100) Demon Cleric | Pessimiste 85(100) Sage Wizard | PalavaEnkeli 87(100) Demon Fist/APS-Archer | VerenVanki 85(100) Demon Mystic | MerenPeto 85(100) Sage Psychic
    Current mains: Old psy and 19 new/recreated mains(avg. level 82)
  • SmurfJegeren - DreamweaverSmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I changed my HA build a lil bit with new update. I discontinued my use of TM lunar cape for more magic. I can still "aps" at 1.82, but using the G16 cape. The new magic stat increase my mag atk quite alot, almost 3k on the high end buffed. Another sude effect in combination with the cards is that I now got more m.def than p.def. With 11999 p.def in human form, and 12567 m.def as of now. C:
    No I dont have a herc, I AM the herc! b:mischievous

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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yeah I do think HAs can take good advantage of the fact that War Avatars increase Magic Defence more than Physical Defence (essentially what they need).
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  • OFate - Heavens TearOFate - Heavens Tear Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I'm pure PvE, decent gear, w/ all four cs-battle pets. I rebirthed, and just hit 100 again. I wear the Lunar Nirvana (no mold yet). Since I left for a year, I'm not sure what this is called. (I took my Wiz's name and made this veno in September but was not active till October).

    I ran FF solo (w/o buffs), and managed it well but was a bit... slow to my liking. My weapon is +5 and it is the molded TT/Nirvana Staff but I also have the Lunar Nirvana Glaive (not molded) for fast cast.

    I want to run FF better.. faster.

    I evolved my Nix but the first boss was too cumbersome using the pet, so I killed it myself.

    I solo all things, can do 1-3 easily w/o buffs. My pdef unbuffed is roughly 17k I think and buffed is over 19k. My hp not buffed is 7k (refines on ornaments and vit stones in cape).

    But I want to be quicker at moving through TT and FF.

    Which build do you recommend?

    And whiel everyone says R9 - I have no clue of the cost or how long to farm it?

    I really want to solo as much TT as I can... so that's my goal. Which build and want to make a pwcalc for me?

    Just a note - I assist.. it's what I do. I run people though TT often and give them the drops and I basically play because I enjoy helping. So getting stronger, means I can assist more often and more people.
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  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Get your herc evolved (if you haven't already, and try for a mood with Howl... that AOE aggro skill is yummy) and you'll be able to do all of 2-x (may need help with 2-3 Ancient Evil to handle the adds) and medium mode 3-x... but you're a veno, you're not going to compete on speed with APS geared BMs, assassins or barbs.
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  • Licancura - ArchosaurLicancura - Archosaur Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hi everyone! I have some doubts and questions.

    I reawakened at level 101 and at level 1 I had 25 stat points to use, I didn't use them until maybe level 10, then I realized that I got only 5 stat points for level just like the first time.

    So I wonder how or when do I get the extra stat points for level? or I had to be 105 to get them? or I get it wrong?

    Because with 5 stat points for level, how can I try a LA or HA build without needing to get stuff with magic, vit, etc? Right now I'm level 50+, I have 52 str to equip my hat and I'm trying to get to 300 magic to equip my r8 pataka but it means I don't have any stat points to spare.

    I'm as confused as with Meridian. b:cry
  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Those 25 stat points you could distribute at level 1 ARE the extra stat points. As a long time heavy veno with lots of +stat items already, I wasn't able to equip my heavy set until level 88 on first rebirth (like you, from level 101); with better stat management and 20 more bonus stat points (from rebirthing the second time at level 100) I was able to equip it at level 80.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hi everyone! I have some doubts and questions.

    I reawakened at level 101 and at level 1 I had 25 stat points to use, I didn't use them until maybe level 10, then I realized that I got only 5 stat points for level just like the first time.

    So I wonder how or when do I get the extra stat points for level? or I had to be 105 to get them? or I get it wrong?

    Because with 5 stat points for level, how can I try a LA or HA build without needing to get stuff with magic, vit, etc? Right now I'm level 50+, I have 52 str to equip my hat and I'm trying to get to 300 magic to equip my r8 pataka but it means I don't have any stat points to spare.

    I'm as confused as with Meridian. b:cry

    To add more to what Mayfly said;

    You can level up your past lives at lvl100. At lvl100 you can use the book demon to store EXP (imagine it like a box) and then use the stored EXP to level up the past life. Before doing that, however, I'd recommend doing both rebirths to get that out of the way and then work to level up your past lives.

    I'd suggest reading the Reincarnation FAQ here for more in-depth information.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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  • hatebangerhatebanger Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hi I'm new here and can't make threads yet, I seem to be stuck as a spirit fox

    I left primal world as spirit fox and now the skill is gone and I can't seem to change back anyone help me, I did submit a ticket but I hope someone can answer me sooner
  • Licancura - ArchosaurLicancura - Archosaur Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Those 25 stat points you could distribute at level 1 ARE the extra stat points.

    I got it really wrong, I thought there would be extra stats at every level! b:cry
    As a long time heavy veno with lots of +stat items already, I wasn't able to equip my heavy set until level 88 on first rebirth (like you, from level 101); with better stat management and 20 more bonus stat points (from rebirthing the second time at level 100) I was able to equip it at level 80.

    So after two rebirths the total ammount of extra points (for around level 100) is 45, not what I expected so I think I'll stay as AA, I don't have the discipline for other builds. b:surrender

    Just out of curiosity, as a HA veno do you feel those 45 points were worth the whole thing? I guess it gives you a little more variety to choose what to wear.
  • Licancura - ArchosaurLicancura - Archosaur Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    To add more to what Mayfly said;

    You can level up your past lives at lvl100. At lvl100 you can use the book demon to store EXP (imagine it like a box) and then use the stored EXP to level up the past life. Before doing that, however, I'd recommend doing both rebirths to get that out of the way and then work to level up your past lives.

    Ok, thx for the advice.
    I'd suggest reading the Reincarnation FAQ here for more in-depth information.

    Thx I read it already, with Mayfly explanation now I understand it. b:laugh
  • Marengo - Lost CityMarengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    hatebanger wrote: »
    Hi I'm new here and can't make threads yet, I seem to be stuck as a spirit fox

    I left primal world as spirit fox and now the skill is gone and I can't seem to change back anyone help me, I did submit a ticket but I hope someone can answer me sooner
    From what I know, skills obtained in that starting location are temporary and most content is awareness-raising, so you lose them as you leave and start playing near your race capital and obtaining permanent skills and stuff.
    Primal world for beginners was implemented few months ago, it's not compulsory and you can skip it and teleport directly to the main world if you want.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I got it really wrong, I thought there would be extra stats at every level! b:cry



    So after two rebirths the total ammount of extra points (for around level 100) is 45, not what I expected so I think I'll stay as AA, I don't have the discipline for other builds. b:surrender

    Just out of curiosity, as a HA veno do you feel those 45 points were worth the whole thing? I guess it gives you a little more variety to choose what to wear.

    Well, if you level the past lives you'll get more but that's a matter of whether you want to go through that effort or not. Even so, the extra 45 points is better than nothing and there's the possibility to gain mag/str/dex/vit from War Avatar cards too.
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