The no skill class

Sint - Harshlands

tsyfall wrote: »

I believe you underestimate the amount of skill required to play a DPH assassin, or at the least, mischaracterize it.

What's unforgivable is that his ignorance does not in any way stop him from writing books about whatever it is. He plays an archer that will get 1shot regardless of what he does, so wether or not he plays it decently is beside the question, and a near endgame geared psy. He doesn't have the slightest clue what archers hit like, because he's assuming every endgame archer hits like Jekel, who outgears him significantly. (Here you have him saying an archer's job is to deal dmg faster than any other class could, something at which we'd be doomed to fail.)

Endgame archers deal **** damage, take ****tons of it, can't luck out of a stunlock, can't go immune to the kind of dmg that's most likely to kill them, can't buff up in such a way that anyone wanting to start attacking them MUST expend resources (and possibly debuff his own mdef) to do so, and then expend MORE resources just to make sure they can actually finish him (without sealing themselves in the process) because of his selfbuff, which cannot be purged and is not even lost upon death (by the way, why is this?) When you get ganked on a psy, as long as you don't get purged, you can probably walk away and/or IG after 3 seconds because by then you'll have proc'd puri, and your buff will have sealed half the people hitting you. When you get focused on an archer (as you invariably will if you're any good at it) you're quickly faced with the problem of being, simultaneously, the class least suited to tanking damage, and tanking damage.



Least skill required:

Barb, Sin, Seeker, Psy, Mystic (this is around my own gear level, currently R9rr+12/10 **** sharded) though this is mostly based on 1 v 1 pvp. Could add Clerics in there, just because, with crappy shards, you can SoG combo, trip spark and almost certainly bypass most people.

Somehow every psy i've seen in the last few years does the same thing: 1shot noobs, see someone who can kill the coming, psy will, ad, ig, psy will, expell with sage heal, then run the **** away and hide behind someone else if it's not dead. Liberally QQ if you choose to kite the string of imunity. (On this point, Longknife has distinguished himself by raging about me "running instead of kiting" when i kited his immunities (and effectively GTFO'd when he responded by hiding behind 3 others who outgeared me.)

Though i don't play endgame much, I'd say an archer's role in it is definitely not to shine at 1 v 1 pvp, and while people generally relativize this by going "but you're good at group pvp!" that just doesn't seem like a well thought out answer. If your dmg is too low to reliably kill people (and archer dmg is both low and unreliable) and your defs are lower than everyone else's, you're not all that great, unless you purge/STA/BV, but then, you could do all of that if you were a veno.

This is just my opinion, however, and if things have significantly changed since th elast expansion, i may have reason to recant it.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

....which cannot be purged and is not lost upon death (by the way, why is this?)

Just popping in to answer this.
SoV/SoS' cooldown is as long as its duration (10 mins). If you were to allow it to be purged and reduce the cooldown to something reasonable (10~30sec for example) one could easily buff an entire squad and themselves with SoV/SoS. I can't imagine that being a good thing. If it were able to be purged with the same CD, then they'd be flat out unusable for the duration of the lengthy cooldown...that's unheard of compared to the other classes who can at least try to rebuff themselves in such a situation.

Oh, and before you ask of lowering the cooldown, letting it be succeptable to purge, and making it selfcast only - there are times where giving SoV/SoS to others is preferable and it would be terrible to lose that option to buff someone else with them.

Sint - Harshlands

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just popping in to answer this.
SoV/SoS' cooldown is as long as its duration (10 mins). If you were to allow it to be purged and reduce the cooldown to something reasonable (10~30sec for example) one could easily buff an entire squad and themselves with SoV/SoS. I can't imagine that being a good thing. If it were able to be purged with the same CD, then they'd be flat out unusable for the duration of the lengthy cooldown...that's unheard of compared to the other classes who can at least try to rebuff themselves in such a situation.

Oh, and before you ask of lowering the cooldown, letting it be succeptable to purge, and making it selfcast only - there are times where giving SoV/SoS to others is preferable and it would be terrible to lose that option to buff someone else with them.

So is having the only selfbuff in the game that forces people to use their genie if they want to kill you. Against anything else, you can keep your genie to defend yourself if **** hits the fan, but against a psy, at endgame, you will have to use your genie, because otherwise you'll need some serious luck to kill them before you get stopped by their soul of silence, which at 55k soulforce procs extremely often. If you can't hit someone three times in a row, you're going to have a really hard time killing that person at endgame.

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

The easiest class to play, given the money, is definitely a barb. Just walk around till you get a crit zerk or 2 in a row and its game over, and 50k hp helps you do this without dying like the rest of us.
This is though, assuming the no skill means you have the money for endgame gear, +12 and the such.

killeresras

Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »

The easiest class to play, given the money, is definitely a barb. Just walk around till you get a crit zerk or 2 in a row and its game over, and 50k hp helps you do this without dying like the rest of us.
This is though, assuming the no skill means you have the money for endgame gear, +12 and the such.

Yes! Given money they really take little skill especially since now they don't even need to walk given that they are starting to get more ranged skills.

tsyfall

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

So is having the only selfbuff in the game that forces people to use their genie if they want to kill you. Against anything else, you can keep your genie to defend yourself if **** hits the fan, but against a psy, at endgame, you will have to use your genie, because otherwise you'll need some serious luck to kill them before you get stopped by their soul of silence, which at 55k soulforce procs extremely often. If you can't hit someone three times in a row, you're going to have a really hard time killing that person at endgame.

Lol?

I'd actually say that Soul of Silence is probably the easiest buff to deal with amongst all the PK classes. Deaden Nerves on both assassins, barbs, and clerics require you to expend twice the normal amount of chi to get a "double kill" in, and tidal protection requires much more luck and planning ahead.

But nah, let's just complain about a buff that can be negated by an 80 energy skill or any form of immunity.

Please, I'd rather have a genie skill that makes all my skills 100% through tidal.

killeresras

tsyfall wrote: »

Lol?

I'd actually say that Soul of Silence is probably the easiest buff to deal with amongst all the PK classes. Deaden Nerves on both assassins, barbs, and clerics require you to expend twice the normal amount of chi to get a "double kill" in, and tidal protection requires much more luck and planning ahead.

But nah, let's just complain about a buff that can be negated by an 80 energy skill or any form of immunity.

Please, I'd rather have a genie skill that makes all my skills 100% through tidal.

Yes lol have to agree with u lol. Tidal pretty much forces the other person to use genie, because it's nearly impossible to have any control over a sin with tidal up.

trands

To be "good" each requires skill and I don't see any of them being really easier then the others. To be just "decent", archer seems easiest to me. Easiest class to collect some kills without drawing much attention. Easiest/fastest class to take out lower geared players. Purge depends on luck, don't need to be skilled for that. In NW/TW you can easily stand behind ppl without getting noticed to much, but that's also server related. My server has tons of archers. If you're +7~10 with weapon fashion, nobody will notice you. In general, if you want easy play just avoid standing out.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

tsyfall wrote: »

Lol?

I'd actually say that Soul of Silence is probably the easiest buff to deal with amongst all the PK classes. Deaden Nerves on both assassins, barbs, and clerics require you to expend twice the normal amount of chi to get a "double kill" in, and tidal protection requires much more luck and planning ahead.

But nah, let's just complain about a buff that can be negated by an 80 energy skill or any form of immunity.

Please, I'd rather have a genie skill that makes all my skills 100% through tidal.

Tsy, with all due respect, but your out-of-dateness on PWI's content makes a lot of your arguments invalid, specially on sin level because the merge skills we get are terribly overpowered.

As a sin, with the skill mergers, you have 2 skills that hit twice and 1 skill that (supposedly) hits 5 times (flurry of attacks? but has to be tested still, so don't hold that against me).
Maybe a barb's deaden might still need a bit more work, but most certainly not as much as you claim it to be nowadays.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tsy, with all due respect, but your out-of-dateness on PWI's content makes a lot of your arguments invalid, specially on sin level because the merge skills we get are terribly overpowered.

As a sin, with the skill mergers, you have 2 skills that hit twice and 1 skill that (supposedly) hits 5 times (flurry of attacks? but has to be tested still, so don't hold that against me).
Maybe a barb's deaden might still need a bit more work, but most certainly not as much as you claim it to be nowadays.

Can we get some videos of it in action?

Still disappointed it's not a single 750% + 15k as advertised .

Auerlius - Archosaur

no skill required? barb mighty swing sunder arma ->gg [especially in 3r9+12 vit w/str build]

little skill required? any LA class with dex doing everything as is currently, psys [you guys should already know why]

moderate skill? bm/seeker they are good classes a lil OP but with enuf drawbacks to make it reasonable

crazy skill? everything else cause it's so underpowered in comparison to the aforementioned classes

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

no skill required? barb mighty swing sunder arma ->gg [especially in 3r9+12 vit w/str build]

little skill required? any LA class with dex doing everything as is currently, psys [you guys should already know why]

moderate skill? bm/seeker they are good classes a lil OP but with enuf drawbacks to make it reasonable

crazy skill? everything else cause it's so underpowered in comparison to the aforementioned classes

Little skill to play a sin? Nah. Even archers require moderate skill when they don't out gear you.

No skill class atm I'd have to say would be Clerics. SoG, Sleep, and Shackle have turned them into 1 trick ponies, and when that doesnt work, most go down pretty fast.

Auerlius - Archosaur

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Little skill to play a sin? Nah. Even archers require moderate skill when they don't out gear you.

No skill class atm I'd have to say would be Clerics. SoG, Sleep, and Shackle have turned them into 1 trick ponies, and when that doesnt work, most go down pretty fast.

lmao now i know you are buggin...low damage, only 2 solid cc skills and limited attacks and you think it's easy to win? suuuuuuuuure.....

LostPoet - Dreamweaver

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have gotta say wizzy. Well, endgame wizzy to be more specific. Insane p def and m def and anyone can undine+genie spark+ fire skills to get a quick kill. Then, when you start getting attacked puri procs and you can run away while taking like 800 damage *wishes he was endgame wizzy* There is skill involved in being truly good using reversions and such, but in terms of basic stuff wizzy is pretty easy.

Nah. because when the wizi gets purged, they are essentially one shot.
So just play an archer or veno, or hang with archer or veno or even barbs now and watch them pop wizis like a lvl 90 TT70 gear nobody.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Seeker?

Chiless CC and anit CC +35 or more def levels, heavy armour high refines, zerk crit with phys and magic, probably the one of the best single target debuffs in the game, good AOE debuffs (both are def level debuffs) high crit rate at end game...

Cmon xD easy mode much?