End to the Pure Dex vs. Pure Strength Seeker Debate!

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

This is an update of SylenThunder old Strength vs Dexterity(crit) seeker post. I will be using his formula and tactics. This is an updated version because I will be considering R9.3 seeker sword along with its zerk. If I **** this up b:thanks just say so . I'm not a math wiz but I am student engineer at a university so hopefully I can figure this out lol. (SylenThunder thread concluded with Pure Str having the edge)

Credit: SylenThunder(formula) Deceptistar(made the pwcalc) _Saikyik_(respond to his thread)

Dex Build
Base Stats:5 VIT 327DEX 205 Str
http://pwcalc.com/7fca61d05f323fa5
HP ~ 18357
Physical Atk. ~ 11095-13530 Median: 12312.5
Pdef ~ 12423
Crit ~ 49%
Accuracy ~ 5580
Evasion ~ 4020

Strength Build
Base Stats:5Vit 160Dex 372 Str
http://pwcalc.com/048101760b8710bb
HP ~ 18357
Physical Atk. ~ 13824-16857 Median: 15340.5
P Def. ~ 14005
Crit ~ 41%
Accuracy ~ 3075
Evasion ~ 2350

DAMAGE BASE
So Using VORTEX METHOD
L10 Vortex = 100% of weapon damage plus 7842.8
Vortex: Damages every 5seconds, hits 3 damage numbers (60/5=12x3=36) so 36 attacks per minute = 3.6
Weapon: Samsara +12
Weapon Damage Range: 2126-2664
Weapon Median Damage: 2395


Critical Damage + God of Frenzy (Zerk) (x2 Damage)
Critical Strike |Strength build=41% Dex build=49%| and God of Frenzy (20% zerk rate) will be (Base Damage per Strike x 2)
I won't consider zerk/crit proc not sure how...and don't feel like wasting more time trying to
Strength Build: 41%+20% = 61%
Dexterity Build: 49%+20% = 69%
X2 damage per minute
Dexterity: Critical Strike/Zerk per minute (.69 x 60sec) = 41% per minute
Strength: Critical Strike/Zerk per minute (.61 x 60sec) = 36.6% per minute

FORMULA
(base damage + 100% weapon damage + 7842.8) = Base Damage per strike
((Base Damage per Strike x 32.4 |amount of strikes|) + (Critical Strike Damage x 3.6)) / 60 = Damage Per Second

Lets apply the info to the formula

Dexterity Build
Base Damage =12312.5 (Median of 11095-13530)
12312.5 + 2395 + 7842.8 = 22550.3 Base Damage per Strike
22550.3 x 2 = 45100.6 Critical Strike Damage
Critical Rate+zerk is 69%, so 69% of 36 strikes(per minute) is 24.84
(22550.3 x 32.04) + (45100.6 x 24.84) / 60 =
(722511.612 + 1120298.904) / 60 =
1842810.516 / 60sec = 30713.5086 DPS
1842810.516 DPM (minute x60sec)
110568630.96 DPH (hour x3600sec)

Strength Build
Base Damage =15340.5 (Median of 13824-16857)
15340.5 + 2395 + 7842.8 = 25578.3 Base Damage per Strike
25578.3 x 2 = 51156.6 Critical Strike Damage
Critical Rate + zerk is 61%, so 61% of 36 strikes(per minute) is 21.96
(25578.3 x 32.04) + (51156.6 x 21.96) / 60 =
(819528.732 + 1123398.936) / 60 =
1942927.668 / 60sec = 32382.1278 DPS
1942927.668 DPM (minute x60sec)
116575660.08 DPH (hour x3600sec)

After Thoughts
o.o Yeh Pure strength wins again! The formula isn't perfect(it's still pretty accurate), I wasn't able to figure out a way to enter Zerk/crit which is 4x damage to the equation, so instead I did the total chance of zerk+crit. Pure dex would definitely benefit the most from zerk/crit chance, but in the end Pure Strength build would still have the edge. Maybe someone can try 50% dex/str maybe that could be the best build? (doubt it tho) So...we can conclude that 41% crit on pure str is pretty damn good and seekers don't need anymore crit than that[/COLOR]

****calc might be under maintenance

skaitavia

No, sometimes the formatting just eats the post. :x

WannaBM - Archosaur

Didnt know there ever was a debate. Why would one go high dex ?

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Skaitavia wrote: »

No, sometimes the formatting just eats the post. :x

fixed it...the (division sign) screwed up the post, once i changed it everything went through o.o
And some people go high dex from crit

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

A cursory glance over the builds suffices to conclude that pure str looks better. Extra 8% crit and some eva/acc (lol) isnt worth sacrificing all that extra patt/pdef. GJ on the calc though.

I think the next never-ending debate we should quash is the pure mag vs the pure str seeker. Those metal combos b:chuckle

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Didnt know there ever was a debate. Why would one go high dex ?

There was a debate a while ago, which led to me making the posts that that formula is is.

You might want to go full DEX if you plan on relying heavily on the crits and evasion in PvP. It's ok for spike damage, but for general gameplay it's not so hot in the long run. It is possible to build a very viable Demon/DEX build, but it's target focus is almost entirely PvP.


Which reminds me, I need to get back to work on the damage calculator I was designing. Once it's done, you'll be able to enter your base damage range, and put combo's together and compare the results. It will include cast time for skills, and I might be able to work in Chi calculation as well, but that might be a stretch.


As for pure MAG, your damage numbers don't take MAG into account. the only benefit would be more mana. I get that with gear.

WannaBM - Archosaur

back to OPs math:

why would you go trough the trouble of calculating crit+zerk and the 4x damage of zerk anyway ?

just multiplying the factors is all you need to find total DPS. for example:
dmg is 10.000
crit chance = 30%
zerg chance = 20%

average dph = 10k * 1.3 * 1.2

more you dont need.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

There was a debate a while ago, which led to me making the posts that that formula is is.

You might want to go full DEX if you plan on relying heavily on the crits and evasion in PvP. It's ok for spike damage, but for general gameplay it's not so hot in the long run. It is possible to build a very viable Demon/DEX build, but it's target focus is almost entirely PvP.


Which reminds me, I need to get back to work on the damage calculator I was designing. Once it's done, you'll be able to enter your base damage range, and put combo's together and compare the results. It will include cast time for skills, and I might be able to work in Chi calculation as well, but that might be a stretch.


As for pure MAG, your damage numbers don't take MAG into account. the only benefit would be more mana. I get that with gear.

Man you should do that! Thanks for making that thread this is pretty much an exact copy, except easier to read. btw what was the reason for the 32.04, I assumed it meant hits...but not sure?

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

back to OPs math:

why would you go trough the trouble of calculating crit+zerk and the 4x damage of zerk anyway ?

just multiplying the factors is all you need to find total DPS. for example:
dmg is 10.000
crit chance = 30%
zerg chance = 20%

average dph = 10k * 1.3 * 1.2

more you dont need.

I see...K leme test it out! btw you can't just factor in the 1.3*1.2 w/o factoring in the 36(hits in 60 sec)

Dexterity Build
Critical Rate+zerk is (1.49*1.20) = 1.788, so 1.788*36=64.38% of 36 strikes(per minute) is 23.1696 - is less by about 1 than the formula up there...the results will still be very close

Strength Build
Critical Rate+zerk is (1.41*1.20) = 1.692, so 1.692*36=60.912% of 36 strikes(per minute) is 21.92832There's a .2 diffrence from this formula and one up there

Since the crit/zerk parts are pretty close to those of the formula up there, the results almost the same. Either way pure str still comes out on top.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with crit/dex seekers...if you want a different play style go for it! (Advise from someone who chose warsoul over r9.3 zerk swords) Play your seeker which ever way you want lol! But remember there is always the most efficient way and if that way isn't fun for you, don't do it!

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

Man you should do that! Thanks for making that thread this is pretty much an exact copy, except easier to read. btw what was the reason for the 32.04, I assumed it meant hits...but not sure?
...

Let's look at the overall formula again...

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

...
So, now that we've defined our damage bases, here's the formula...
((base damage + 100% weapon damage + 7842.8) = Base Damage per strike
A Critical Strike would be (Base Damage per Strike x 2)
Then we need to calculate the critstrike rate into our overall formula...
If we figure a critstrike rate of 10%, then that's 6 crits per minute. then you could count 32.4 regular stikes and 3.6 critical strikes per minute. Sure, you never have a partial crit, but we'll work with it for now...
So, then we take all of these fun numbers, and throw them together into the final formula..
((Base Damage per Strike x 32.4) + (Critical Strike Damage x 3.6)) / 60 = Damage Per Second
Sure it's not perfect because Crits are still random, but for theorizing which system will net more damage, it's an exellent base.
...

Now, for the formula, we were calculating 36 hits per minute for the formula.
Those particular builds had a crit strike rate of 11%.
11% of 36 is 3.96, so there's 3.96 times that you will achieve a critical strike.
Subtract 3.96 from 36 the 36 hits, you will get 32.04, which would be the number of normal hits that don't crit.

Yes, I know, we're splitting partial hits, but it's just pure math, and it's all going to average out in the end. If you started rounding, it would just skew the numbers and eventually the results just become so corrupt as to be pointless.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Hmm... well before i was dex seeker.
I changed to STR to see how it was like.
Its been nearly a year now since i changed from full dex to full str, but it didnt make a super difference in terms of TW/NW
(this is with +12 weapon full R9R3 with jades)
Rather, i felt that more mobs (of people) got away before i could finish them off which was annoying.
i still have a that scroll of stat change just in case lol

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Let's look at the overall formula again...

Now, for the formula, we were calculating 36 hits per minute for the formula.
Those particular builds had a crit strike rate of 11%.
11% of 36 is 3.96, so there's 3.96 times that you will achieve a critical strike.
Subtract 3.96 from 36 the 36 hits, you will get 32.04, which would be the number of normal hits that don't crit.

Yes, I know, we're splitting partial hits, but it's just pure math, and it's all going to average out in the end. If you started rounding, it would just skew the numbers and eventually the results just become so corrupt as to be pointless.

I see...kept wondering where you were getting the 32.04 non crit damage from! So if i fixed the Dex formula it would be 36x.69=24.86 -36= 11.84 (instead of 32.04) and strength would be 36x .61 = 21.96-36 = 14.04 (instead of 32.04) Strength would still come out on top.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmm... well before i was dex seeker.
I changed to STR to see how it was like.
Its been nearly a year now since i changed from full dex to full str, but it didnt make a super difference in terms of TW/NW
(this is with +12 weapon full R9R3 with jades)
Rather, i felt that more mobs (of people) got away before i could finish them off which was annoying.
i still have a that scroll of stat change just in case lol

hmm...try dex again then?

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I don't know... my gut says that the slightly higher dph of a strength build might not be as valuable in pvp, and that a dexterity build might have its place.

From my experience watching seekers kill stuff, they don't kill unless they crit or zerk.

When they DO zerk or crit, particularly with the sacrificial slash combo, they often do waaaay more damage than they really need to, to kill their target. For example, on me the jaded target, I recently experienced a 10k metal zerk crit, and I didn't even have sacrificial slash on me (I had metal debuff and extreme poison though). I saw another 10k (when I was purged but had no other debuffs) metal zerk crit. Self-buffed either of these hits is more than enough to charm bypass, which really... when does a seeker every kill aside from charm bypassing? Lets be honest here.

Given the basic points that (a) seekers hit harder than they need to when they zerk+crit, and (b) that seekers only kill stuff efficiently with crits or zerk+crits, I think a dexterity build might still be viable. Less overall damage, but better finishing power (ie, you whittle a person's hp down to around half, then you get a better shot at bypassing than the strength build, due to the fact that you need a zerk or zerk crit to bypass ANYWAYS).

*shrug* maybe? lol.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Something i just realized about this method was the use of DPM/DPS which may or may not be changing some factors.

If your going PVE instances and mobs, the usage of skills and vortex, due to the continuous attack rate on the mobs, I agree that STR build might be a safer choice overall.

For PVP instances such as TW or NW, like Aeliah said and how i experienced myself, alot of the kills are not based on any sort of static DPM/DPS but rather a "1hit-2hit FINISH HIM!" run run snipe snipe! sort of lolmortalkombat like fighting style. In this case, since the DPM/DPS kind of turns out to be less relevant than the PVE STR style, wouldnt it be that the DEX build would have to have their own formula to accommodate the play style its used for? Or possibly 2 formulas for a PVE and PVP that could decide which style each build might be better for, if at all.

Just a thought.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know... my gut says that the slightly higher dph of a strength build might not be as valuable in pvp, and that a dexterity build might have its place.

From my experience watching seekers kill stuff, they don't kill unless they crit or zerk.
...

I did say that in PvP a Demon DEX seeker would be a viable build. It's going to lose in PvE farming though and in overall PvE damage, plus you're trading off some of your defense. Basically you're relying on the crits to get the high spike damage to go through the charm.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I did say that in PvP a Demon DEX seeker would be a viable build. It's going to lose in PvE farming though and in overall PvE damage, plus you're trading off some of your defense. Basically you're relying on the crits to get the high spike damage to go through the charm.

Oh yes, I read what you said hehe. I wasn't disagreeing, more just... 'musing', lol.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Something i just realized about this method was the use of DPM/DPS which may or may not be changing some factors.

If your going PVE instances and mobs, the usage of skills and vortex, due to the continuous attack rate on the mobs, I agree that STR build might be a safer choice overall.

For PVP instances such as TW or NW, like Aeliah said and how i experienced myself, alot of the kills are not based on any sort of static DPM/DPS but rather a "1hit-2hit FINISH HIM!" run run snipe snipe! sort of lolmortalkombat like fighting style. In this case, since the DPM/DPS kind of turns out to be less relevant than the PVE STR style, wouldnt it be that the DEX build would have to have their own formula to accommodate the play style its used for? Or possibly 2 formulas for a PVE and PVP that could decide which style each build might be better for, if at all.

Just a thought.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know... my gut says that the slightly higher dph of a strength build might not be as valuable in pvp, and that a dexterity build might have its place.

From my experience watching seekers kill stuff, they don't kill unless they crit or zerk.

When they DO zerk or crit, particularly with the sacrificial slash combo, they often do waaaay more damage than they really need to, to kill their target. For example, on me the jaded target, I recently experienced a 10k metal zerk crit, and I didn't even have sacrificial slash on me (I had metal debuff and extreme poison though). I saw another 10k (when I was purged but had no other debuffs) metal zerk crit. Self-buffed either of these hits is more than enough to charm bypass, which really... when does a seeker every kill aside from charm bypassing? Lets be honest here.

Given the basic points that (a) seekers hit harder than they need to when they zerk+crit, and (b) that seekers only kill stuff efficiently with crits or zerk+crits, I think a dexterity build might still be viable. Less overall damage, but better finishing power (ie, you whittle a person's hp down to around half, then you get a better shot at bypassing than the strength build, due to the fact that you need a zerk or zerk crit to bypass ANYWAYS).

*shrug* maybe? lol.

All viable points but have you ever been hit by a seeker with 700 Strength and 41% crit lol? 41% crit on a PURE str seeker is still very amazing, they would still crit/zerk like hell

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

All viable points but have you ever been hit by a seeker with 700 Strength and 41% crit lol? 41% crit on a PURE str seeker is still very amazing, they would still crit/zerk like hell

No, I haven't, because that sounds improbable. The r9rr weapon for seekers requires 155 dexterity points. I'm a close-to-max build, and I have 700 points in magic and 100 in strength (rest is vit and dext which I can't stat out). Yet you are suggesting that somehow a seeker can have 700 strength and 155 dext, and somehow still manage 41% crit? I'd need to see a pwcalc before I believe such a thing.

Let me quickly count up the crit. With 155 dext seeker would have 8% crit (lets assume they have 160 dext). r9rr armor adds 8% crit. r9rr weapon ideally adds 8% crit. Rings add 7% crit. cube neck has 3% crit, and emperor tome has 3% crit. This adds up to a grand total of 8+8+8+7+3+3=37% crit. Assuming max wep crit, we are still short 4% crit, unless we assume seeker gets some pretty awesome engravings on rings/neck.

Possible maybe, but improbable I think. Even if we assume max str-stats from g16 helm and cape, we still don't quite make up the 50 strength point deficit. If we assume that the rings have str engravings, where is the 4% crit coming from?

Anyways, picky details aside, I've been hit by maxed out seekers, yeah. I've died to them too. However, the occasions I have died are memorable for their rarity, lol. Seekers don't usually kill me when I still have my buffs in; archers or venos are responsible for most of my deaths due to the purge.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I haven't, because that sounds improbable. The r9rr weapon for seekers requires 155 dexterity points. I'm a close-to-max build, and I have 700 points in magic and 100 in strength (rest is vit and dext which I can't stat out). Yet you are suggesting that somehow a seeker can have 700 strength and 155 dext, and somehow still manage 41% crit? I'd need to see a pwcalc before I believe such a thing.

Let me quickly count up the crit. With 155 dext seeker would have 8% crit (lets assume they have 160 dext). r9rr armor adds 8% crit. r9rr weapon ideally adds 8% crit. Rings add 7% crit. cube neck has 3% crit, and emperor tome has 3% crit. This adds up to a grand total of 8+8+8+7+3+3=37% crit. Assuming max wep crit, we are still short 4% crit, unless we assume seeker gets some pretty awesome engravings on rings/neck.

Possible maybe, but improbable I think. Even if we assume max str-stats from g16 helm and cape, we still don't quite make up the 50 strength point deficit. If we assume that the rings have str engravings, where is the 4% crit coming from?

Anyways, picky details aside, I've been hit by maxed out seekers, yeah. I've died to them too. However, the occasions I have died are memorable for their rarity, lol. Seekers don't usually kill me when I still have my buffs in; archers or venos are responsible for most of my deaths due to the purge.

Please say this is some kind of typo. Why would you put 700 points in Magic? None of your damage is based on magic points.

Curious minds want to know. b:pleased

slamstone

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I haven't, because that sounds improbable. The r9rr weapon for seekers requires 155 dexterity points. I'm a close-to-max build, and I have 700 points in magic and 100 in strength (rest is vit and dext which I can't stat out).

i'm hoping that she's reffering to her cleric getting close to 700 magic, not a seeker , but i had to read the post 2 times to get the sense.

(emphasizing that seeker gear requirements are higher than a cleric (at least the dex seeker/str cleric part) therefore kinda far fetched to hit 700 str in that context )

Klinsy - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Why would one go high dex ?

They're not a min/maxer, they already had a high-STR Seeker and didn't want a copy of it, etc. Lots of reasons.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Uh yeah. Sorry I didn't realize I needed to specify: "I" am a cleric, lol. "I" have endgame r9rr gear, which means I have close to the max # of stat points a r9rr endgame lvl 105 person can get. I was demonstrating that for a seeker in *similar* gear and of *similar* level to have (41% crit, 700 str, and 155 dext), they have to magically pull 4% crit and 50 stat points from... somewhere.

Joshuason - Raging Tide

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

Man you should do that! Thanks for making that thread this is pretty much an exact copy, except easier to read.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with crit/dex seekers...if you want a different play style go for it! (Advise from someone who chose warsoul over r9.3 zerk swords) Play your seeker which ever way you want lol! But remember there is always the most efficient way and if that way isn't fun for you, don't do it!

Just have to say, glad i saw this threadb:thanks. Especially the the above quote, lol. i'm working on T3 piece by piece, and in spite of what many peeps said i should do, i went with upgrading my lunar duals to T2 single sword. i even got lucky with 1st reroll n got +20 attk lvl n +350 hpb:pleased. as for going higher strength, i've normally gone higher strength for the sake of gear and, of course, greater ph attk. at one point, yes my dex n evasion were rather high, but that was because of my lvl 80ish gear(Proud Plate of Corsair, Cuisses..., Pirate King's Seal, Helmet of Pirate)which was okay at the time! but i went torward much more phys def, hp n strength. and i noticed that rank seeker gear tends torward more strength, so obviously that is where his build should go. it was how a seeker was designed, he/she benefits more from adding to strength(skills, etc.).

and since i have a 2nd seeker who is going(gone, done deal) demon, i also appreciate this comment as well.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

You might want to go full DEX if you plan on relying heavily on the crits and evasion in PvP. It's ok for spike damage, but for general gameplay it's not so hot in the long run. It is possible to build a very viable Demon/DEX build, but it's target focus is almost entirely PvP.

just because of the factor of using demon spark n faster attack rate, therefore more chance to crit n evade if i go somewhat higher dex with him. i dunno, but i'll have fun playing around with this seeker as well!

but the bottom line of all this replying n quoting is just to say, YEAH, play your toon however you want to, it's our game! i've seen a 103 psy w/all HA n using dual axes!

so it's better to just do this however YOU(meaning whomever) YOU want to! and by the way, i enjoy wielding a single sword once again because that's what I am comfortable with. and Raph, u have a Warsoul wep, sweet! i've only seen 1 warsoul sword(maybe blade) on world chat n it was the phattest wep i ever seen! i know the r9rr wep is nice but...there's something about having somthing different or rare that appeals to me. anyhow, see u all ingameb:victory

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I haven't, because that sounds improbable. The r9rr weapon for seekers requires 155 dexterity points. I'm a close-to-max build, and I have 700 points in magic and 100 in strength (rest is vit and dext which I can't stat out). Yet you are suggesting that somehow a seeker can have 700 strength and 155 dext, and somehow still manage 41% crit? I'd need to see a pwcalc before I believe such a thing.

Let me quickly count up the crit. With 155 dext seeker would have 8% crit (lets assume they have 160 dext). r9rr armor adds 8% crit. r9rr weapon ideally adds 8% crit. Rings add 7% crit. cube neck has 3% crit, and emperor tome has 3% crit. This adds up to a grand total of 8+8+8+7+3+3=37% crit. Assuming max wep crit, we are still short 4% crit, unless we assume seeker gets some pretty awesome engravings on rings/neck.

Possible maybe, but improbable I think. Even if we assume max str-stats from g16 helm and cape, we still don't quite make up the 50 strength point deficit. If we assume that the rings have str engravings, where is the 4% crit coming from?

Anyways, picky details aside, I've been hit by maxed out seekers, yeah. I've died to them too. However, the occasions I have died are memorable for their rarity, lol. Seekers don't usually kill me when I still have my buffs in; archers or venos are responsible for most of my deaths due to the purge.

the calc i had made by Deceptistar had full str seeker with 41% crit and full dex with 49% ....idk why calc isn't working tho, i think their servers are down

And I agree that against tough oponents our kills will require zerk/crit or a good combination of debuffs. I'm +12 warsoul so I rely entirely on debuffs to kill anyone.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I haven't, because that sounds improbable. The r9rr weapon for seekers requires 155 dexterity points.

Not so improbable, really.

Assuming they have that +45 add-ons tome (emperor?), they'll have to stat 105 dex from the 525 they get from lvling to 105 to equip weapon. That leaves them with 420 str stats + 5 (original) + 45 from tome. 470 so far.

+100 from set bonus = 570
+ 78ish from set addons (good rolls, not perfect) = 648
+ 30 from neck engraving = 678
+ 4 from reseting magic and vit to 3 = 682
+ 20 from ring engravings (could be more) = 702

That, of course, is endgame stuff, but nothing impossible nor close to. Especially because I didn't add there the str. from G16 helm and cape.

I didn't do the math for the crit rate, but I'm so lazy now after all that...

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not so improbable, really.

Assuming they have that +45 add-ons tome (emperor?), they'll have to stat 105 dex from the 525 they get from lvling to 105 to equip weapon. That leaves them with 420 str stats + 5 (original) + 45 from tome. 470 so far.

+100 from set bonus = 570
+ 78ish from set addons (good rolls, not perfect) = 648
+ 30 from neck engraving = 678
+ 4 from reseting magic and vit to 3 = 682
+ 20 from ring engravings (could be more) = 702

That, of course, is endgame stuff, but nothing impossible nor close to. Especially because I didn't add there the str. from G16 helm and cape.

I didn't do the math for the crit rate, but I'm so lazy now after all that...

Getting either the crit or the strength points is easy; getting both at the same time should be decidedly more difficult, and engravings-dependent. This also assumes that seeker does, in fact, use g16 cape; many choose to use matchless wings or it's NW-upgraded version instead, or even g15 helm and cape for the 5 attack level bonus.

BuddhaRage - Sanctuary

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

All viable points but have you ever been hit by a seeker with 700 Strength and 41% crit lol? 41% crit on a PURE str seeker is still very amazing, they would still crit/zerk like hell

Hi Deceptistar here o,o
i dont zerk like hell tho
it feels like STR build is like a european flat blade while as dex build is like a samurai sword

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Joshuason - Raging Tide wrote: »

...
but the bottom line of all this replying n quoting is just to say, YEAH, play your toon however you want to, it's our game! i've seen a 103 psy w/all HA n using dual axes!

so it's better to just do this however YOU(meaning whomever) YOU want to! and by the way, i enjoy wielding a single sword once again because that's what I am comfortable with. and Raph, u have a Warsoul wep, sweet! i've only seen 1 warsoul sword(maybe blade) on world chat n it was the phattest wep i ever seen! i know the r9rr wep is nice but...there's something about having somthing different or rare that appeals to me. anyhow, see u all ingameb:victory

Agreed.

Yes, the DEX build is quite viable, and it's not a stupid choice. I'm not going to sit around and shun someone because of how they choose to play their class. (Although I might frown a bit running into a Sage HA Cleric.)

For me, I'm still deciding how I'm going to be statted end-game. I'm currently working on a full G16 set and once it's finished, I will start narrowing the stats down more. I'll probably balance the DEX out to an even number and put the rest into STR. My biggest dilemma is how many VIT points do I want. I basically play my Seeker like Barb, but with a hell of a lot more DD. With my current setup at 100, I have marginally sharded/refined Lunar gear. (Marginal means +3 with Flawless Citrines because I'm saving for the G16 shards/refines.) I'm sitting with merely 6893 HP (9k+ buffed) and can do pretty much any pull that my 92 barb with 16.7k hp can do, and then stop and AoE like mad at the end of the pull. It's a blast. My base stats are 105 VIT, 5 MAG, 254 STR, and 151 DEX. With my gear it's 136 VIT, 5 MAG, 301 STR, and 182 DEX. I was going to work out some builds on PWCalc, but it's down and I don't have a recent cached copy of it.

Alphaben - Raging Tide

I didn't go with either...Why be forced to rely on crits or huge hits that can be blocked?

Pure str and dex would only work in 1v1...NW and most PK ends up 1v3+

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Alphaben - Raging Tide wrote: »

I didn't go with either...Why be forced to rely on crits or huge hits that can be blocked?

Pure str and dex would only work in 1v1...NW and most PK ends up 1v3+

A large part of the reason I'm still a VIT hybrid.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

cause no one wants to be a big blob that hits like a baby >.>

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

A large part of the reason I'm still a VIT hybrid.

lol sometimes when im pissed and I don't want anyone to kill me I'll go full vit for a week ;D its like impossible to die lol but you wont kill ***** ^^ still fun!

ps full vit for me is like 100vit anymore and I will never kill anyone lol