Can't decide: veno or mystic alt for pvp

Adroit - Lost City

Well I'm looking to gear up another alt for the lulz, have a full set of alt gear sitting around and really only need to invest in a weapon. Right now my main is my wiz, I have an alt ep that wears my alt gear and r9rr +12 wep, an alt veno that wears my alt gear and r8r +0 purify wep (and full vit build), and a 91 mystic that I had started leveling but never finished.

The two choices I'm really considering right now are to get my veno r9rr +12 wep and restat to pure mag (and finish learning a bunch of the DD skills I have ignored up to now) or finishing leveling the mystic so it can use alt gear and buy it r9rr +12 wep and learn all the level 11 skills. PvE is of absolutely zero concern, so the only real consideration is for pvp and 1v1s when I want to play something a little different.

I guess what I'm looking for is just how people like playing the different classes.. and maybe tough 1v1 matchups for both. What do venos/mystics generally struggle most with in 1v1 situations?

My approx alt gear can be seen here: http://pwcalc.com/cad7674c8115584a

klys

Veno if you're just 1v1 cause purge and shet.
Mystic for mass pvp cause they're sexy as balls.

Archers are the main nemesis with their dirty purge bow.

Hope I helpedb:victory

Zoldi - Morai

I think mystics can be interesting to play in 1v1 as well but this will be very different than a veno. It will be hard for me to compare though, because I didn't play with a veno for a whike and this was only in PVE.

I hope you're going to choose mystic because maybe you will make some videos.

As klys said, if talking about fights between toons that have both R9r3 weapon, I would also say that the more challenging situation is against archers (I guess this is the same for mystics and venos) because of their range + lot of quick powerful hits + ... purge of course ! Even if you manage to rebuff fast enough (autobuff + perhaps pots), you might be debuffed once again just a few seconds later. In addition to that, they can use more immunes than you and can use stealth and if they decide to kite they will run faster than you.
I think you already face that while playing your wiz, but wizzies can "move" more easily than mystics according to me (for venomancers his might be different but not that much)

Desdi - Sanctuary

Hard to say to be honest because it would depend on what you enjoy playing the most. I can only comment about venomancers.

I like venomancers the most because of debuffs and purge, you generally mess around with the enemy.

In terms of 1v1 it would depend on the cultivation for venomancers. Against most classes the demon has an advantage because of their amps but in some cases such as against an assassin sage one has the upper hand.
Against another veno, it would depend on the cultivation. A sage venomancer with faith genie is almost guaranteed to win against demon (purify ironwood, faith nova, if chi drain sage can recover faster). If they have normal genie then it might just be whoever lands/resists stunlocks first. Demon against demon would be the same thing.

Eoria - Harshlands

Go mystic and make videos plox.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I realize you may take my input with a grain of salt, but still here's my opinion on the matter. ^^

To be honest I can see you being on a veno, and having more fun than on the mystic.

Both classes can definitely be a big nuisance/great asset to your squad when they're played correctly.

Nibaki - Heavens Tear

Well, I'm currently going to start leveling some alts through pure questing.

Barb, Wizard, Psychic, Mystic. Gonna start with the mystic first. I really wanted to make one because it seems they're really lacking in this game. Nobody wants to play one it seems, lol. I'm leveling all these mainly to get a feel for the classes and try them all out in nation wars. I wish you luck for whichever you choose b:victory

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Honestly, I have not found a use for mystics. If you want a challenge, you can explore the class and find a good use for them, maybe that could be interesting for you as well as a lot of people.

The problem with that though of course, is there are barely anyone who knows what mystics can do either, so it could be hard to find too many worthy opponents.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

If you want a challenge go for mystic.

In my opinion both veno and mystic are fun to play in PVP, but they are different.

Also not a lot of people know how to fight a mystic cause at 95% people playing mystic don't know how to play.

Heliophobia - Sanctuary

Personally I enjoy mystic alot more than venomancer due to higher damage.
If you play venomancer in mass PvP your main job is to keep targets purged (and amped if needed) when on mystic you can just annoy them with all the seals and fastest stun ingame.
Like Bella mentioned, mystic is a bit more challenging to play. (and fun )

@Zoldi: If you go demon veno you can run away at.. roughly 10.4m/s so moving around isnt a problem.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Heliophobia - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you play venomancer in mass PvP your main job is to keep targets purged (and amped if needed)

I'll smack you < that's not the only things venomancers can do.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Yes Desdi, venos are capable of so much more!

Heliophobia - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you go demon veno you can run away at.. roughly 10.4m/s

b:laugh

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'll smack you < that's not the only things venomancers can do.

It's not the only thing veno can do, but it's the only thing people expect from veno in mass PVP.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'll smack you < that's not the only things venomancers can do.

To be fair she... or he did say "main job" I doubt she (or he) thinks that is all they can do.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not the only thing veno can do, but it's the only thing people expect from veno in mass PVP.

Sad but true. EDIT: Albeit I also expect them to sick their pets on me if they have the chance, they're sneaky like that. :P

Desdi - Sanctuary

I know that's what people expect venomancers to do, it's been like that since the very beginning, but they are also mistaken because then they "teach" their venomancers to only do that instead giving their full support to the squad.

I only smacked helio because I know her in-game and was just a friendly smack lol.

But on another note:

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be fair she... or he did say "main job" I doubt she (or he) thinks that is all they can do.

Crush Vigor + Chi Burn (+ Mo Zun's Taunt) should be added to the main job, myriads as well as CC with Nova so my point still stands :P

I actually don't care though, the more people underestimate the class, the better for me!

chuji17

Nibaki - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, I'm currently going to start leveling some alts through pure questing.

Barb, Wizard, Psychic, Mystic. Gonna start with the mystic first. I really wanted to make one because it seems they're really lacking in this game. Nobody wants to play one it seems, lol. I'm leveling all these mainly to get a feel for the classes and try them all out in nation wars. I wish you luck for whichever you choose b:victory

im hi just a newbie here ive already downloaded pwi sirens and everytime i launch a game my anti virus pops up that the game has a unwanted malware or there is a virus dont know whAT to do ?? just curious because my computer might be virused or something pls help

Desdi - Sanctuary

Wrong forum section try the technical support sub-forum.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know that's what people expect venomancers to do, it's been like that since the very beginning, but they are also mistaken because then they "teach" their venomancers to only do that instead giving their full support to the squad.

I only smacked helio because I know her in-game and was just a friendly smack lol.

But on another note:



Crush Vigor + Chi Burn (+ Mo Zun's Taunt) should be added to the main job, myriads as well as CC with Nova so my point still stands :P

I actually don't care though, the more people underestimate the class, the better for me!

Aye and chi burn is REALLY insanely underpriced... (at least it was/is last i checked on DW) it's crazy how useful that skill seems like it could/would be especially against classes you know can't do much at all without some major chi usage. (not to mention the takeaway of everyone's ulti for a bit. (mo zun taunt is so an way underated skill as well. So few demon people use it in mass pvp... or at least they don't here on dreamweaver.) (Add in a genie with the skill chi siphon, and watch as people QQ about you stealing all their chi away... major combo effect.... RAWR. Though yes chi siphon will eventually give it back, but stealing all that chi away from someone just seems so... badass)

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

I use mo zuns all the time.

TW its huge on cata barbs, group mo zuns spam = invoke button wont work.

In NW I wont bother if I can kill them in less than 10seconds. If they are carrying flag or I know its someone tanky then I would.

In 1v1 pvp that you know will last a while, its huge, considering the cd on mo zuns is 30 sec while the cd on master li's is 60sec.

Edit: And chi siphon is situational, sometimes can backfire due to completely killing your genie, though a veno using chi siphon followed by purge crushed vigor chi drain and mo zuns lol..

Desdi - Sanctuary

It's my pleasure to see people cry as they see their chi disappear b:cute

Enough off topic though xD but I think you should try both a little and see which one of the two you find more interesting.

Adroit - Lost City

Thanks for all the replies

I do have a little experience with both, more so with the veno.. but only in terms of support. I think it is hilarious running around stealing chi/buffs on my veno, the only issue is that when I'm derping around by myself I can't kill anything.. r8r +0 wep and full vit build ensures I am support only.

I figure if I gear up veno, 1v1s wll be mostly about cripping my opponents with purge/chi drain and killing primarily with amp + purge + mdef break (from myriad) + anything or amp + demon ironwood + arcane antimony. I'd also have to be really careful about getting caught in human against phys classes.

Mystic for me is a big unknown, they seem to have a number of neat skills.. but I really have no idea how effective they can be yet. They seem like they have amazing survivability and some interesting debuffs.. but I'm not sure how their damage compares to other classes yet.

I'm almost tempted to try mystic because I'd have to figure it out almost completely on my own.. it seems like nobody has really figured them out yet. Hmmmmm

klys

I can count on one hand the number of endgame mystics on my server who are capable of fully utilizing the class. The class has been figured out, but there's no one around for us to teach because of lack of gear/skill capacity.
If you look in the right places and ask the right people you'll learn a lot. These forums are often toxic when it comes to mystic information. The main reason i started posting in the pwi forum was to shut down all the shet info i was seeing offered.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I'm almost tempted to try mystic because I'd have to figure it out almost completely on my own.. it seems like nobody has really figured them out yet. Hmmmmm

There are a number of mystics who have figured them out, they just don't hang around the forums...

Adroit - Lost City

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There are a number of mystics who have figured them out, they just don't hang around the forums...

Like who?

maxster13

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Like who?

There's a few on my server such as oOAutumnOo and GoddessNoa who have it figured out, but I don't know how relevant that information is to you considering you're not on Sanctuary.

I would be the first to admit that I'm not the most experienced with mystic PK, but I've talked with GoddessNoa in my faction and he places a big emphasis on amping damage. Mystics can use Energy Leech to ramp up their magic attack with Mistress or drastically increase crit (25% or more) with Chihyu. They have Rapid Growth which amps damage and cuts channeling, and of course mystics can spark too. Any of these three amps can be stacked with each other so it makes it possible to land some really big numbers, especially with Lucky Break, which ensures a critical hit. Or if you want to be more constant, it's not too difficult to basically stay amped the entire time considering that effect of using Energy Leech on Mistress lasts 20 seconds with a cooldown of 30 seconds, Rapid Growth has a 30 sec cooldown (which has a chance to void if sage), and the general ease of building chi (summoning pets and the main heal give extra chi for demon, and for sages the main attack gives extra chi). To give a little perspective on the extent of how easy getting chi is for a mystic: As a sage, when I grind Morai mobs, I can stay continuously 2 sparked for a very long time by only spamming Nature's Vengeance and using the sage chi skill.

And as a personal opinion, I LOVE mystic because of all of the options of stuns/antistuns/defense skills etc available:
=Bramble Tornado for player-effective knockback skill, interrupts channeling, great for kiting and being hella annoying, 12 sec cd
=Gale Force for AoE silence/freeze, 8 sec cd
=Energy Leech for a 6 sec antistun , 9 secs for sage, 30 sec cd
=Thicket for silence+freeze, 30 sec cd, massive damage, AoE if sage
=Listless blossom for long sleep that penetrates many antistuns
=Chihyu for 5 sec stun, spammable every 8-10 seconds it takes to resummon Chihyu
=Mistress for 3 sec silence, also spammable
=Creeper/Spidervine for 40% movement or channeling debuffs and 20% attack or defense debuffs
=Nature's Barrier for 50% reduction in damage for 8 seconds at the cost of being immobilized (which can easily be used with Energy Leech to void the immobilization as well)

Plus, a spammable one-shot heal as well as an automatic preheal with options for salvation shield/sacrifice/leeching are super useful, alongside a buff that almost doubles your pdef for phys classes.

I think mystics are underestimated. When I was a lvl 98 with 3.2k hp and a +7 aquadash, I could easily kill 101 g15/16 +5 clerics, even those who could one-shot me after sparking. But yes, archers and especially tanky barbs/seekers can be a big problem. Maybe all the numerous clerics I fought happened just happened to suck or something, but I've found that it's always been remarkably easy to kill clerics, often without allowing them to even land a shot at all. If you're good at mystic, then you can use bramble, chihyu stun, gale force, and listless blossom to essentially stunlock your victim for more than enough time to kill them.

Take what you will of my opinions - I hope laying it out like that helped. I think you would vastly enjoy mystic because it's an amazing class if you're the type of player that always likes to have a trick up their sleeve.
~Max

juicybluca

venos have a major pvp potential respect mystics, who imo are a full support class

i've seen a demon veno hitting a r9r3+12josd seeker 36k enough said

those purge + amp + breaks + demon ironwood + the fox form "stone barrier"
those can make a skilled veno a real pain in the ***

i've never played a veno so i may be mistaken, but i shoot this right here:

amp-> purge-> demon ironwood-> nova-> wukong\nix autoatks\bleed OPPPPPP

b:laugh

Zoldi - Morai

maxster13 wrote: »

I think mystics are underestimated. When I was a lvl 98 with 3.2k hp and a +7 aquadash, I could easily kill 101 g15/16 +5 clerics, even those who could one-shot me after sparking. But yes, archers and especially tanky barbs/seekers can be a big problem. Maybe all the numerous clerics I fought happened just happened to suck or something, but I've found that it's always been remarkably easy to kill clerics, often without allowing them to even land a shot at all.
~Max

According to me, mystics have a great advantage against clerics, mainly because of AS. In 1v1 the best thing a cleric could probably do against a mystic is to sleep him/her and go elsewhere...
Tanky barbs can be very difficult to kill 1v1 but in the same time they won't be able to kill you as well. Seekers are easier to kill but they can destroy you sometimes (nothing unbalanced though)
For me the only really difficult class to fight with is Archers class.

Myerna - Raging Tide

Maxster had some amazing responses for the mystic side.

To be perfectly honest, it really depends on your playstyle. I hate to say it comes down to that, but any class vs. class choice kinda comes down to that.

Because I have limited mystic experience, I would refer back to Maxter's post. Only things I would add to that are telling you about what makes mystics I fight difficult, since I have more experience fighting them than playing them.
Mystics have some insanely powerful abilities, some which bypass def levels and such, and others that plain out smack you for a lot of damage. What gets me the most are : antistuns--they can sacrifice their pet at any time to gain antistun and some other buff for a couple seconds, only to summon it right back with little to no penalty. They might also have more, but that is the one I see most frequently used.
control skills--they can seal and freeze by themselves, their devil can stun, and their blossoms can sleep spam. Combined with their heal which can put them at full hp in one go, they can be really annoying to kill. b:surrender
defense+heals--they can have a blossom heal them even when they are locked in stun, or have salvation keep a powerful damage shield on them, or have falling petals so they gain hp while being attacked. If they are r9rr, their purify on weapon makes them even harder to kill.
In addition, they also cast faster than venos typically, so can often throw more spells than you in a given time.

Anyways, those are some of the pros for mystic. Mystics played right are pretty awesome, ijs.

But why would I still go for veno?
Several reasons. Besides the fact that I just plain out love my veno. \o/
a) Versatility. No "you're a noob if you don't go full mag". No "you should only use these skills". No "venos are only good for this role". Sure, people really underestimate us, and sadly so many venos are dismissed because their squad does not actually understand that we are so much more amazing than a simple purge/amp bot.
We have versatility of build--my veno is a HA/AA; I take full advantage of both fox skills and human skills. I laugh when bms and sins attack me, then laugh when they run away and get their psy/wiz friends to attack me--I just switch armor sets and they don't know how to get me. Besides, watching someone 100+ aps themselves to death on your HA bramble is just funny. On barbs, I giggle as I use leech to get back all the dmg they can do to me. And I still do hefty magic DD.

[begin random streak/more PvE]
We have versatility in role. As a powerful solo class, I can run many instances alone that usually take a squad. But even with a squad, I can do any amount of roles. In one frost/fc run, where I was running with a new squad, I was doing group mob pulls, pulling single shades and killing those, tanking, healing when my pet tanked, debuffing, lending sparks to needy clerics, and doing some hefty DD, all the while teaching my squad how the instance and bosses worked.
And though it really is not part of our immense versatility, I love how we are not confined to one look, but can be foxies, kitties, bats, deer, or bunnies. b:cute Also, having a large choice of pets is just so fun!! I love my each of my pets--they're not just for battle, they are friends and aesthetically reflect the veno, too. b:pleased
[end random streak, back on topic]

b) Squad usefulness. As mentioned above, we can help a squad in many, many ways. We have great functions as a support class, and can give sparks to allies, curse and debuff enemies, heal any allied pets, and so forth, allowing us to be invaluable to a squad that knows the worth of venos. In a PvP world where having a squad could mean life or death, being able to support said squad is amazing.

c) Speed. Not really a huge point, but I would point out that it is much more fun to run in those huge NW maps at 8+ m/s than it is at 4.9, or whatever a mystic is limited to without holy path. b:chuckle

d) Damage. Not the biggest pro, but certainly not a con. We can have huge spike damage with our patakas. In addition, the sage veno spark gives more attack than any other class spark, at a whopping 900% additional weapon damage. This can be the added DD you need to take a tank down.

e) We can also stunlock, if played right, though our stuns usually are in the forms of seals/freezes. I think I saw something about a stunlock on Arty's PvP veno thread.

f) Unique and powerful skills. Instead of needing a weapon to purge, we can purge from level 13 up (oh, and did I mention that you can purge someone's spark?). We can also give sparks, which no other class can do. We can curse our enemies, and drop their chi from 4 sparks to 1 spark in a heartbeat. We have an 'ironguard' skill for "oh ****" moments when your cleric is down and you are taking all the fire. We have reflect skills, making it possible for a sin to kill themselves on you while you do nothing. =P We can manipulate our own hp/mp, switching between charm ticks to basically give you a secondary charm in tough moments (we can also restore 50-60% of our hp/mp with one skill tap as well, no cost!). Furthermore, we can, with certain genies, switch the enemy hp/mp, meaning that if you drain their mana, you can knock a 40k barb from full hp to 10 hp in the blink of an eye. Trust me, that freaks them out. b:laugh

g) Being ganked. We also have a ton of ganking survivability. With 2 damage reduction skills and 1 immunity skill, even without a genie we can tank much longer than most would expect someone without heals. Granted, the mystic can heal, but if both a veno and a mystic are stunlocked, a veno with hood/barrier up will certainly last longer.

In summary (tl;dr version):
I would choose veno for PvP because they are more versatile, unpredictable, and uniquely equipped for PvP. Super high spike damage and survivability are the other particularly notable pros.

Hope that helps! If you have any questions about what I wrote or veno class, feel free to let me know!

Heliophobia - Sanctuary

@All these posts of "thats not the only thing venos can do", I used to play a venomancer (101) for 4 years, I know what else it can do..
And Desdi. </3 (you already forgot who my veno is?!)

Desdi - Sanctuary

I didn't but I'll never forgive you for what you said! just kidding though

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

maxster13 wrote: »

GoddessNoa

Lol...

maxster13 wrote: »

=Thicket for silence+freeze, 30 sec cd, massive damage, AoE if sage

... You are the perfect example of a mystic that doesn't know his own class.