More skill updates for Venos! Discuss

TJTLegend - Archosaur

Warning Spoilers:

Grudge Strike Animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvTEuNyqcyw

Too Epic b:dirtyb:dirty I love the dark skill animations for veno already and this one is awesome.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Yeah it looks cool o.o

_isucku_ - Lost City

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

PvE is just fine now. Everyone can get +40 attack lvl weap (very cheap), +30 attack lvl blessing (even free) and deal the damage they haven't dreamt of 2 years ago even sparked.
But what about PvP? No defence or offence skills, just 10 extra chi on 2 skills? Veno is not only support class right now, others take its function. Purge is available for many classes now, also every class has various number of its own debuffs. We need more crits, more attack, chance for zercrit on some skill maybe, better dragons, whatever to be competitive.

Speaking about fox wallop, it was kinda useless anyway. I tested it on another server and didn't bother to buy or learn on official. If you hit with paws and it procs, you have to stand up quickly to do maximum 2 hits. But you can easily miss it also unless you watch it attentively, which is too tiresome. It was ok for HA venos in good old times when HA didn't seem a bad choice, it proceeds and you continue autoattack. Since most venos are arcane it's not a big deal to lose it, imo.

yeah Marengo right... this update seems good for Vitality build veno. hahaha... b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Desdi - Sanctuary

I'm kinda disappointed that Grudge Strike is not what I thought it would be based on the player-made translations >.> so I guess it's just going to be solely a chi-making skill.

The video seems have a channeling debuff on monsters just like old Fox Wallop. Not attack rate and I highly doubt it's cooldown (PWE and their wrong description) but 125% channeling debuff for PvE? Whut?

But yeah like I already said I'm kinda disappointed right now with the updates though it's partially my fault for interpreting the skills differently heh. Compared to other classes the update is so-so. We did need some updates on the Fox Form attack skills but wish they had updated Frost Scarab (could have easily made it a hard hitting skill if it's gonna cost a spark) and up the damage for some of our skills.

Edit: Updated first post with more up to date information to avoid confusion for those who might be checking the thread out for the first time.

Marengo - Lost City

_isucku_ - Lost City wrote: »

yeah Marengo right... this update seems good for Vitality build veno. hahaha... b:laughb:laughb:laugh

I don't see much difference, if the veno is vit or mag... I'd say this update benefits PvE sage venos.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

But yeah like I already said I'm kinda disappointed right now with the updates

I also realised that if I learn upgraded ironwood, I lose blazing scarab, which I use to restore chi b:laugh. Thus, I lose convenient range human form chi making skill and get some medlee fox form chi making skills (considering we upgrade all). Should I remind how hard it is sometimes to purge a target from 10 metres without whirlwind because it moves constantly? b:laugh And even though new skills "always hit", they will not always hit a sin. Any profit?

Kymraja - Raging Tide

i'm just getting ready to be oneshotted more looking at other classes skills b:laughb:laughb:laugh

still ye, our skills are pretty disappointing, but meh, it's the game ^^

actually i just want to have new animations b:pleased

Desdi - Sanctuary

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

I also realised that if I learn upgraded ironwood, I lose blazing scarab, which I use to restore chi b:laugh. Thus, I lose convenient range human form chi making skill and get some medlee fox form chi making skills (considering we upgrade all).

You know...I wonder why they didn't just fuse Ironwood with Frost Scarab which was rarely being used. I might sound like I'm obsessed with Frost Scarab now since I keep mentioning it but Blazing Scarab is indeed good for building chi and is used in macros which, now, will probably get messed up. f:sweat

I'm not QQing about it but just trying to think about all these new updates and how it's gonna affect gameplay. I won't be able to play until later as I'll be in class when the maintenance is over so I can just think up theories in my mind for now f:shame

SakuLv - Dreamweaver

why so few human form skills

most just damn fox form

DeffyNature - Archosaur

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

You know...I wonder why they didn't just fuse Ironwood with Frost Scarab which was rarely being used. I might sound like I'm obsessed with Frost Scarab now since I keep mentioning it but Blazing Scarab is indeed good for building chi and is used in macros which, now, will probably get messed up. f:sweat

I'm not QQing about it but just trying to think about all these new updates and how it's gonna affect gameplay. I won't be able to play until later as I'll be in class when the maintenance is over so I can just think up theories in my mind for now f:shame

I would have left ironwood alone and fused frost and blazing actually, that would have been more useful, in my opinion.

Desdi - Sanctuary

DeffyNature - Archosaur wrote: »

I would have left ironwood alone and fused frost and blazing actually, that would have been more useful, in my opinion.

That's actually a good idea too o.o

opkossy

Yeah. Frost and blazing would have been the best fuse, IMO.

Well... depending on what they did to chi/cooldown. Blazing is great for extra chi (not that sages need to worry on that end) so if it were changed to have a chi cost in that fusion it may be a bit... odd.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Anyway, I think we've had enough negativity in this thread and we should try to think about, test and discover ways to take advantage of the new skills.

Stunning Blow will potentially become a good skill to immobilize the target especially in situations like Eoria mentioned where you can prevent the enemy from running from purge. I'm certainly going to enjoy the Demon for the additional stun (just 50% but still).

I'm also curious about Malefic Crush in TW scenarios. It might be interesting.

Marengo - Lost City

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's actually a good idea too o.o

Again, if it gives chi, not takes

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stunning Blow will potentially become a good skill to immobilize the target especially in situations like Eoria mentioned where you can prevent the enemy from running from purge.

If you start casting purge 10m away from your target it will work even if the target jumps away while you casting. IMO, if you can use stunning blow, there should be no problem to purge instead. But if you can't purge (running target etc) you won't be able to use SB as well )

Ok, ok, trying to stop spreading negativity b:laugh

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Half my foxform skills are like lvl 2 or not even 10 let alone demon except for purge/amp/soul degen and well befuddling is demon just cuz i couldn't sell the book lol.

guess i can at least lvl all to 10 lol.

killeresras

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually missed that part. This is really weird.
The google translate version translated it as "decrease attack rate on players" but I suppose the translator program messed up the non-player part but...cooldown? I hope this was a mistake on PWE's part because it makes no sense. f:stare


That is something I noticed so I'm not sure what to think of it. I do want to test it out in TW but being Soulforce based..not sure how good it will be.

I was initially excited about this update on skills but now I'm getting kinda meh. Some other classes got pretty big boosts. The things we got are nice but honestly...we needed an update to Frost Scarab and maybe up the % of some skills. They gave Assassins a 750% skill and Wizards a 800% >.>;

I'm mostly just happy for the extra chi bits for Demons lol.

They don't want us venos to keep up >: WTVR we still wreck everyone else even with their way better updatesb:thanks. But for pk I want bramble and hood working to fit these new Atks the other classes are gettingb:angry

helovesu

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Again, if it gives chi, not takes

If you start casting purge 10m away from your target it will work even if the target jumps away while you casting. IMO, if you can use stunning blow, there should be no problem to purge instead. But if you can't purge (running target etc) you won't be able to use SB as well )

Ok, ok, trying to stop spreading negativity b:laugh

I get what you mean b:chuckle
This situation sometimes happens during NW. When we are chasing the barb who brings the flag. Just make sure we must run faster than they do.
Anyway, i still do not understand the skill description of Grudge Strike. It is said that the effect is increasing target's channeling time by 50%. It sounds a positive thing for a magical user target b:laugh
Mistranslation may occur (i guess)

Desdi - Sanctuary

So...did any Demon Venomancer learn the new version of Ironwood?
I noticed they changed the in-game description for Demon Ironwood, the regular one, saying it deals 40% physical defence debuff.
Prior this update, the Demon Ironwood did not include that in the description.

What I'm trying to ask is..whether Redstone Demon really has a 40% debuff with a 25% chance of 180% or is just a 25% chance for a 180% debuff that has a crappy misleading skill description.

opkossy

As much as I feel the former would be a bit skewed when it comes to sage/demon balance... the latter would be such a craptastic nerf that it'd be ridiculous.

Don't have it yet but now I kinda want to stay away from it just in case of that... b:sweat

Desdi - Sanctuary

I'm keeping the book in bank until I can confirm it somehow >.< maybe someone offers to become the test victim.

Azura - Lost City

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

So...did any Demon Venomancer learn the new version of Ironwood?
I noticed they changed the in-game description for Demon Ironwood, the regular one, saying it deals 40% physical defence debuff.
Prior this update, the Demon Ironwood did not include that in the description.

What I'm trying to ask is..whether Redstone Demon really has a 40% debuff with a 25% chance of 180% or is just a 25% chance for a 180% debuff that has a crappy misleading skill description.

Well the description is wrong, cause I still got the old version, and it hasn't changed at all.

Many of the new skills are wrongly described. I'm gonna have to remember all the translations others posted more than a month ago because those are way more accurate.

And, has any demon veno learned the merged skill for ironwood? I need to know if there is a different icon for the 180% debuff.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Well the description is wrong, cause I still got the old version, and it hasn't changed at all.

Many of the new skills are wrongly described. I'm gonna have to remember all the translations others posted more than a month ago because those are way more accurate.

And, has any demon veno learned the merged skill for ironwood? I need to know if there is a different icon for the 180% debuff.

My point it that we all interpreted Redstone to deal 40% debuff with a 25% chance of dealing 180%. That would be a combined Sage + Demon Ironwood of sorts.
The interpretation was this because "deals 40% debuff bla bla" was added to the descrition.

Demon Ironwood itself did not have "deals 40% debuff" in description. It only stated the weapon damage, bonus damage and that's it. The Demon effect was added in the purple letters at the bottom.

Now Demon Ironwood includes "deals 40% debuff" in the description which could very well mean that Redstone is only 25% chance to debuff 180%.

Check the Psychic thread. Psychics where complaining over Glacial Shards getting a radius nerf from 8 meters to 6 meters. The description in-game of the current non-upgraded Glacial Shards has been changed 6 meters.

There's a very high possibility that we interpreted the skill wrongly all along. What Demons are getting is possibly a debuff nerf (180% vs. 0... lol) for the +5% chance to proc and the little damage boost.

If this is true, once again Sages get the good stuff and Demons get pooped on. I really need someone to confirm how it works... x.x

opkossy

What Desdi said.

I'm not touching that skill until I know for sure which way it is. If the description is accurate, I'll debate with myself about getting it.

If the description is incorrect and it's a flat-out nerf to my Demon Ironwood? No thanks.

Azura - Lost City

Oh ok, now I understand what you are saying. ****, what demon veno wants to go 1st, your sacrifice would be always remembered b:surrender

Marengo - Lost City

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Oh ok, now I understand what you are saying. ****, what demon veno wants to go 1st, your sacrifice would be always remembered b:surrender

For any pure PvE veno it's not a huge nerf (even vice versa since many complained on unstable debuff). But for PvP it's really a big deal b:surrender
90% i'm staying away from this b:sweat

Desdi - Sanctuary

LF Demon Venomancer that's willing to sacrifice and become the test subject for this skill XD

Satyrion - Sanctuary_1389862626

I'll do it for you if you pay for my celestial change to demon, and back to sage again as well as every single sage skill that i got f:shy f:shy

Desdi - Sanctuary

Speaking of which, makes me wonder...if you change cultivations, do you lose your Primal World skills too? Do they change? Do you have to re-farm the materials? If yes, how? The special material (not the Blood) seemed to be from the chain quest only.

opkossy

Any rich venos around willing to be a brave and noble sacrifice as well as use their money to force PWE to revert their skill if it winds up being a nerf?

Anyone? b:surrender

killeresras

I'll do it when I get home from exams in 2 hours. I'll post or u can message me in game: MsDoomDesire sanctuary server. Lol if it suck I think I'm a have to switch to sage.b:surrender

Ilyania - Lost City

I learned the demon version of Redstone Venomworm. So far I like it, but I have yet to pvp with it since I'm nubby.

When I tested it on my hubby, who is full r9.3 +10 with 20 vit stones in his gear, I hit him a few times in two different sets of my gear, with a Jones' Blessing. He wasn't buffed at all and I used no other debuffs.

NV3 with R9.3 +10 Pataka
3,463
4,154
3,924
4,276
3,599

R9.3 with R9.3 +10 Pataka
4,095
5,418
*10,980* Crit
5,356
4,468

If there is any other info you want on it, let me know.

Edit

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

25% for 180% pdef debuff? No other variations?
I'm curious about how pdef debuff works. How much pdef left when 180% procs if a bm is in physical marrow, self buffed and ep+guild base buffed.

Yeah, demon version of it only gives the 25% chance for 180% reduction.

When he was full buffed, without marrow. (Sage BM)

Normal: 29,112 phys def
40%: 25,721
180%: 13,897

Full Buffed, M.Marrow (Sage)
Normal: 18, 192
40%: 15,512
180%: 3,697

Haven't tested with GB buffs, he got antsy and wanted to frost :x