Nerf Sage Tidal

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juicybluca
juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2013 in Arigora Colosseum
^thread.
discuss.
Post edited by juicybluca on
«134

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  • LolyLove - Raging Tide
    LolyLove - Raging Tide Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    ^thread.
    discuss.
    answer: no
    Close thread b:laugh
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Thread should be closed.
    ^Discuss.

    (Not even an argument from the OP in this thread. What did you expect?)
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


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  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    lel, sage Tidal is pretty OP thoug. For a game that relies on purge/debuffs to score kills, being able to dodge 67% of al incoming debuffs while have a whole tree of them yourself is kinda OP, no?
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  • Raapy - Raging Tide
    Raapy - Raging Tide Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    i could list a lot of thing that are "OP" on other classes, but that how it is. Everyone has their pros and cons.
    [SIGPIC]Level 104 Sage Assassin[/SIGPIC]
  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited September 2013
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    Assassin: 66% evasion
    Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns

    Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen
    Cleric: Permalock

    Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills
    Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react

    Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense
    Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals

    Barbarian: Lives too long
    Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable

    Nerf all classes
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Even though I hate that skill...
    No
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  • seitori
    seitori Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Sure! Lets F'over the Sin Class even more!? While still allowing the other classes to keep their WAAYyyyyyy to OP skills, so they can get an even more lopsided advatage over sin class....b:surrender
    Or in Another words, No way Jose!!


    Let the other classes who have more OP'd skills then Sage Tidal Anni-up to the PWi~WTF is all dis OP Powers ****? Class Skills (Castration/Chopping) block first... Then we'll talk about nerfing Sage Tidal...b:victory
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Heeeeeey guise, you know what else should be removed that was considered a "gamebreaker"? Purify Spell!
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  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    +1, because if OP can't be bothered to write, i can't be bothered to reply about the topic.

    So how was friday's drunk nekky NW for everyone? b:laugh
  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    tsyfall wrote: »
    Assassin: 66% evasion
    Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns

    Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen
    Cleric: Permalock

    Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills
    Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react

    Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense
    Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals

    Barbarian: Lives too long
    Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable

    Nerf all classes

    Aoe purge zhen? You sir, are hilarious.
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  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    tsyfall wrote: »
    Assassin: 66% evasion
    Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns

    Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen
    Cleric: Permalock

    Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills
    Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react

    Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense
    Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals

    Barbarian: Lives too long
    Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable

    Nerf all classes

    as everyone knows, true players use bare hands b:avoid
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    for nerf i mean like reduce it like to 50% with a different add like the demon one
    ok rewind... .. ... .... ...

    Sage Tidal is a bug\****, fix.
    ^thread
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    for nerf i mean like reduce it like to 50% with a different add like the demon one
    ok rewind... .. ... .... ...

    Sage Tidal is a bug\****, fix.
    ^thread

    sooo moving from 50% to 66% is that big? deal with it.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    No actual point made by OP equals pointless thread?

    Inb4close b:bye
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
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    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    inb4allsagesinscometoQQcausetheychosetheOPestclasstoroflolanyotherclassandw\osagetidaltheyjustcant :<

    btw yea 50% to 66% is a big difference...

    and about this:


    Assassin: 66% tidal
    Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns (avoided with sage tidal\maze steps)

    Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen (avoided with sage tidal)
    Cleric: Permalock (avoided with sage tidal)

    Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills (avoided with sage tidal)
    Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react (avoided with sage tidal)

    Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense (qpq avoided with sage tidal)
    Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals (rofl)

    Barbarian: Lives too long (i've seen sins hitting 34k hits on r9r3+12 barbs)
    Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable (avoided with sage tidal)
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    zzz ok it's a big difference because you say it's a big difference zzz

    lol sins with sage tidal opest class....speaks volumes about how you play.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    zzz ok it's a big difference because you say it's a big difference zzz

    lol sins with sage tidal opest class....speaks volumes about how you play.

    well then keep the 66% but increase the cooldown time...

    30 secs tidal cooldown time mirror is just too less for any sin that could just stealth\deaden\IG\genie\kite then tidal back

    am i wrong b:shutup
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Ah a point emerges.

    To which I say yes I agree it sucks, should it be changed? No. Its part of the class.

    Like psys have OP self buffs. Part of the game.

    Archers purge randomly from afar. Part of the game.

    Everyone is learning how to deal with it, coming up with strategies for it, accepting that your control skills arent as reliable vs sins. Its just part of the game.

    QQing about how it needs to be nerfed or how anything needs to be nerfed is defeatist.

    I feel archers at endgame are massively underpowered vs other endgame classes. Am I gonna QQ about it? Nah. Accept it. Adapt and survive. Know your strengths and know your weaknesses. And even better know those of your opponents. Theres a player behind there too.
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  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Aoe purge zhen? You sir, are hilarious.

    Never learned BoA?

    juicybluca wrote: »
    inb4allsagesinscometoQQcausetheychosetheOPestclasstoroflolanyotherclassandw\osagetidaltheyjustcant :<

    btw yea 50% to 66% is a big difference...

    and about this:


    Assassin: 66% tidal
    Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns (avoided with sage tidal\maze steps)

    Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen (avoided with sage tidal)
    Cleric: Permalock (avoided with sage tidal)

    Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills (avoided with sage tidal)
    Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react (avoided with sage tidal)

    Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense (qpq avoided with sage tidal)
    Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals (rofl)

    Barbarian: Lives too long (i've seen sins hitting 34k hits on r9r3+12 barbs)
    Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable (avoided with sage tidal)

    1v1 yes, mass PK no. It's more of a derrent in mass pk really. Otherwise, I'd literally be unkillable, which is hardly the case.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Otherwise, I'd literally be unkillable, which is hardly the case.

    wrong b:avoid
    you only purge once #yopo
  • Unholly - Morai
    Unholly - Morai Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    btw yea 50% to 66% is a big difference...

    66% down to 50% would be a significant but nerfing it would affect mass pk a lot more than it would 1v1. As Zsw said Tidal is more of a deterrent, why use my 2 spark kill combo when it has a 1/3 chance of failing when i know in a little while it will wear off. Look though forums about 1v1ing a sin the most frequent suggestion people say is wait out their tidal then go in for a kill.

    Unfortunaly this does not go with mass pk:

    1: A lot of the strong debuffs, amps etc are aoes. Someone goes to (Roar/HF/Nova/sage purge) your squad or someone near you. Yes it may miss you 2/3 but then again it may not and these debuffs are if they land normally more dangerous to an assassin than to any other class because even in r9 assassins just dont have as much survival as other classes so they will be more likely to have to burn a genie or apoth.

    2: In group pk there is often a strong emphasis on Assist Attacking as normally its very hard to take down a fully buffed player on your own, so you ask your squad to coordinate with you and attack one person at a time. Tidal does not stop damage and if an assassin has 3 people hitting them its not going to help. Also if these 3 people decide to stun you statistically 1 stun will land. Though too be fair if there are 3 people hitting the sin, most probably the fight is about to end.

    Sooo to sum up my wittering... yes sins with tidal are strong in 1v1s as most people will avoid using their kill combos when its up, no matter what cultivation the tidal is. But in mass pk tidal is not nearly as strong, and changing it will just make a class which isn’t very well suited to mass pk even less well suited.

    1v1 most probably sin will have an advantage over your class, in mass pk you probably will have the advantage so just nuke them then ^_^
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  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Never learned BoA?



    Ofc I did. The purge isn't aoe unlike gof, and doesn't proc that much anyway, and sometimes is not useful like on an already purged target.
    Not qqing just simple facts here, anyone who claims archers are op, and give some sort of lame reason make me rofl that's all.
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  • tsyfall
    tsyfall Posts: 9
    edited September 2013
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    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ofc I did. The purge isn't aoe unlike gof, and doesn't proc that much anyway, and sometimes is not useful like on an already purged target.
    Not qqing just simple facts here, anyone who claims archers are op, and give some sort of lame reason make me rofl that's all.

    Lolwhat

    The purge isn't aoe. THAT would be stupid as fak. But the potential is still there for it to proc on every single person within AoE range.
    And we all know archers are probably one of the most underpowered classes at the moment.


    1v1ing on an assassin is entirely turnbased. There are 2/3rds of the time where the sin is trying to kill their target, and 1/3rd when they're getting hunted down. The 1/3rd part is particularly lethal because an assassin has terrible defenses on par with archers, but without the wings of grace/elven alacrity/range.
    Good PvPers can make exceptions to this 2-1/3 rule - someone might be able to kill a tidaled sin, or an untidaled sin might be able to kill their target. But generally, you'll see a 60-30 second cycle.

    Nerfing tidal basically turns a sin into a blademaster with no defense, paltry evasion, and a stunlock that requires so much chi the sin wouldn't even be able to kill their target.
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ofc I did. The purge isn't aoe unlike gof, and doesn't proc that much anyway, and sometimes is not useful like on an already purged target.
    Not qqing just simple facts here, anyone who claims archers are op, and give some sort of lame reason make me rofl that's all.

    Depends what you consider aoe. To me, the chance of being able to purge more than 1 target is aoe. Archer's aren't overpowered, but purge isn't something that can be easily overlooked either.
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    wrong b:avoid

    wut
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Impossible to discuss balance. People get way too defensive about their class. Something as trivial as removing melee range penalty for archers would still get rage even today.
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Impossible to discuss balance. People get way too defensive about their class. Something as trivial as removing melee range penalty for archers would still get rage even today.

    yea... btw archer is a pretty balanced class... it can be op if played by skillfull players (i played archer for last 2 years and now i main another class), it doesnt really have an uncounterable buff \ skillshot (like all the classes can be countered in their op thing, heart of steel soul of fire faith will surge etch how do you counter sage tidal?)

    even in mass pk a full buffed sin on sage tidal is free to do w\e he wants and he wont get the focus cause he will be harder to be taken down than a barb, i mean you can still purge invoke f.e. ....

    as i said i'd promote a nerf in this ways:

    reduce 66% to 50% + 1 minor benefit OR
    change "all negative status effects" to "movement impairments" or w.e. OR
    improve cooldown from 90 sec to 120 sec OR
    make it purgeable
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    you can still purge invoke f.e. ....

    Why is thread still open.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    Purge invoke b:laugh b:cry

    Jebus.

    Yeah this is going to be like teaching spanish to a monkey.
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  • juicybluca
    juicybluca Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    oh allright i might not have a vast knowledge on barbs but pretty sure all the other buffs cept that and cornered can be purged

    look all this mad sins tho b:chuckle
  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited September 2013
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    juicybluca wrote: »
    oh allright i might not have a vast knowledge on barbs but pretty sure all the other buffs cept that and cornered can be purged

    look all this mad sins tho b:chuckle

    pretty sure you cant purge tiger form b:avoid

    you know what's even more broken? you can purge my SoV+SoS \o/
    you only purge once #yopo

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