arty's veno pvp thread~

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

Very nice thread and posts.

I am sage hypird vit in harshlands and a Tw/pvp faction so was really helpful. I dont have a nix i use my dino for pvp which got claw strong and howl and ofc ream.

My most used strategy in open pvp is foxform then Natural+feral then purge and sometimes amp depending on target then i send pet to howl while i go caster 1iorn then dino ream(natural still on) then hood and lucky. if not dead(that ream hurts) i go range ,cloud, Frost, then a chi pot for hood and venomus till i have chi for frost if he/she is not dead by now then i cant win and its time to go sz.b:surrender

Tw: The squad leader(officer) calls targets and i have assist atk rdy to purge and amp, You dont think in tw just follow orders. i use kowlin in tw bec it got nice debuffs(and yes the phy debuff bec no time to cast iorn) and the speed makes it a bit unnoticed.Hood is my best friend cuz i need to go in&out safe and the cd makes it perfect to time with purge and amp. if the stun squad is wiped or unable to help my nova steps in.

Desdi - Sanctuary

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

Very nice thread and posts.

I am sage hypird vit in harshlands and a Tw/pvp faction so was really helpful. I dont have a nix i use my dino for pvp which got claw strong and howl and ofc ream.

My most used strategy in open pvp is foxform then Natural+feral then purge and sometimes amp depending on target then i send pet to howl while i go caster 1iorn then dino ream(natural still on) then hood and lucky. if not dead(that ream hurts) i go range ,cloud, Frost, then a chi pot for hood and venomus till i have chi for frost if he/she is not dead by now then i cant win and its time to go sz.b:surrender

Tw: The squad leader(officer) calls targets and i have assist atk rdy to purge and amp, You dont think in tw just follow orders. i use kowlin in tw bec it got nice debuffs(and yes the phy debuff bec no time to cast iorn) and the speed makes it a bit unnoticed.Hood is my best friend cuz i need to go in&out safe and the cd makes it perfect to time with purge and amp. if the stun squad is wiped or unable to help my nova steps in.

Curious, why do you use Frost Scarab so much? Ironwood is the hardest hitting spell Venomancers have (along with Parasitic Nova) and costs much less chi to use.
Is it because of the slow effect or the DoT?

Arctix - Dreamweaver

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

To be fair, some days you're lucky and it procs a lot whilst other days it seems like it never procs but that's luck.

I would have preferred if it had 30% chance to proc or something similar but overall I understand why it has such a low proc-rate...imagine it have something like 80% chance; that would be pretty OP and broken.

30% proc would b more than required

the difference between 20% n 30% on ultis (yes in its own way) is sometimes game changing


Dont believe? imagine 2 demon venos against u n ur best freind :P

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Curious, why do you use Frost Scarab so much? Ironwood is the hardest hitting spell Venomancers have (along with Parasitic Nova) and costs much less chi to use.
Is it because of the slow effect or the DoT?

I forgot to say i got sage frost.
Throw an icy bug at the enemy, inflicting Wood damage equal to base
magic damage, 100% of weapon damage, and 5135.0. Has a 95 % chance to inflict
Frostbite on the target, causing it to suffer 300% weapon damage plus
5135.0 water damage over 9 seconds and decreasing its speed by 70%.
vs
Throw a splinted bug at the enemy, inflicting Wood damage equal to base magic
damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2770.0. Reduces
enemy's physical defense by 40% for 20 seconds.
I didnt get sage nova yet so frost is more dmg and the speed reduce is better than a possible seal.when i get sage nova then lucky+nova ofc
1 terrible disadv of nova in open pvp is the aoe 1 single white name can turn me red and i lose gear.

Desdi - Sanctuary

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

I forgot to say i got sage frost.
Throw an icy bug at the enemy, inflicting Wood damage equal to base
magic damage, 100% of weapon damage, and 5135.0. Has a 95 % chance to inflict
Frostbite on the target, causing it to suffer 300% weapon damage plus
5135.0 water damage over 9 seconds and decreasing its speed by 70%.
vs
Throw a splinted bug at the enemy, inflicting Wood damage equal to base magic
damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2770.0. Reduces
enemy's physical defense by 40% for 20 seconds.
I didnt get sage nova yet so frost is more dmg and the speed reduce is better than a possible seal.when i get sage nova then lucky+nova ofc
1 terrible disadv of nova in open pvp is the aoe 1 single white name can turn me red and i lose gear.

I was mainly asking why you choose to use Frost Scarab over Ironwood. Based on your post you seemed to prefer spamming it over Ironwood.
Does it deal more damage than Ironwood or is it the DoT that does it?

As a Demon, I primarily use Forst scarab for the freeze effect, not really caring about the actual damage and Sages can build chi faster than a Demon so I am careful when I choose to use Frost.

Azura - Lost City

OPKossy wrote: »

... If it had a higher chance to activate than it currently does.... veno + (insert phys class here) would be an instakill for pretty much anyone fighting them.

That happens a lot when I pk actually. b:chuckle

The last day I was pvping with my friend against other 2 friends xD. My mate is a barb and with the combination of ironwood + one of my mate's attack my other 2 friends got one shot. The most epic was against my bm friend. Right before he got armageded ironwood proked and my bm friend, who is full r9-3 +11 and vit build, got one shot by 50k.

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

I did a dmg test on the ranking mob.
iornwood 23k-31k
Frost 20k-27k + 31.5k-36KDot.
Frost does more dmg overall for same cast time which leaves u time to run and nuke.
Demon frost got 80% only to hit effect so less reliable, and the slow is only for 3sec but the dmg is so high per tick.

Desdi - Sanctuary

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

I did a dmg test on the ranking mob.
iornwood 23k-31k
Frost 20k-27k + 31.5k-36KDot.
Frost does more dmg overall for same cast time which leaves u time to run and nuke.
Demon frost got 80% only to hit effect so less reliable, and the slow is only for 3sec but the dmg is so high per tick.

Yeah, I was testing it myself earlier. It sounds like something I'd use on a very tanky target though since DoTs are kinda situational and sometimes the target may not live long enough for it.

I'd still choose Ironwood over Frost Scarab though due to CD and requiring less chi.
Frost seems to be better than I thought though P:

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, I was testing it myself earlier. It sounds like something I'd use on a very tanky target though since DoTs are kinda situational and sometimes the target may not live long enough for it.

I'd still choose Ironwood over Frost Scarab though due to CD and requiring less chi.
Frost seems to be better than I thought though P:

You are demon right?
cuz if you are the DOT is 3secs which is nearly the cast&channel of one skill i.e. if u cast frost then iorn u do 2xbase magic + 7XWEP DMG + 13040 in 5.3sec.

opkossy

The two big problems with frost are the following.

1: DoTs are essentially worthless for PvP due to their negligable damage.
2: Frost consumes a full spark that could be put to other uses.


If frost had a better effect than a slow, it would become much more viable.... but burning a spark for a slow and an okayish initial hit with a negligible DoT tacked on isn't something most consider worthwhile. Especially as your own gear/skill (and that of your opponents) gets better and better.


Remember, the damage test mob has no defense, no defense level, isn't at a level where your damage gets reduced, doesn't cause PvP damage penalty, cannot use apohtecary, cannot use a genie, etc.

So while in PvE Frost Scarab can be useful when you have the chi to blow, for PvP it's a different case as you and your opponent get better in both gear and skill.

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

1. general speaking isnt really helpfull frost has a 3sec so lower than any comparable dot.the damage is not neglegable.
2. the uses of sparks are (hood ,nova,eruption) which needs at leat 2sparks so frost will help if you have only 1spark
3.the gear,def lvl etc..., affects all dmg so any skill wil do less dmg on player than on mob with same percentage no matter what skill u r using

Azura - Lost City

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

1. general speaking isnt really helpfull frost has a 3sec so lower than any comparable dot.the damage is not neglegable.
2. the uses of sparks are (hood ,nova,eruption) which needs at leat 2sparks so frost will help if you have only 1spark
3.the gear,def lvl etc..., affects all dmg so any skill wil do less dmg on player than on mob with same percentage no matter what skill u r using

But, what for do you even need to blow one spark to just deal a bit more damage? It's better to use ironwood which is much cheaper in chi cost and does mid damage.

There are also better things where to expend 1 spark: feral concentration, natural synergy, arcane antinomy, and fossilized curse.

opkossy

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

But, what for do you even need to blow one spark to just deal a bit more damage? It's better to use ironwood which is much cheaper in chi cost and does mid damage.

There are also better things where to expend 1 spark: feral concentration, natural synergy, arcane antinomy, and fossilized curse.

Beat me to the punch. Thank you.

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

But, what for do you even need to blow one spark to just deal a bit more damage? It's better to use ironwood which is much cheaper in chi cost and does mid damage.

There are also better things where to expend 1 spark: feral concentration, natural synergy, arcane antinomy, and fossilized curse.

True but vs charmed ppl u have to kill within 10secs so i need most dmg possible and i am talking from r8r wep prespective.
in my squence above feral and natural are in cd already and i am too lazy to finish my 100culti so didnt count them sry.

Artymis - Dreamweaver

i'm more into the philosophy of frost and iron, not one or the other. i do think frost is good most of the time but if faced between the two, i'd instinctively go with iron 'cause of the chi saving and iirc faster cd. *checks* yep. 8 secs v 15 secs. it isn't a bad skill though and one most venos tend to disregard so i'm glad that you view it highly. but why not expand your arsenal some with frost AND iron f:cute

Eoria - Harshlands

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

True but vs charmed ppl u have to kill within 10secs so i need most dmg possible and i am talking from r8r wep prespective.
in my squence above feral and natural are in cd already and i am too lazy to finish my 100culti so didnt count them sry.

Frost Scarab is a terrible skill in terms of spark cost for what you get and you'd be better off sending someone chi or waiting eighteen seconds for another spark to nova.

Artymis - Dreamweaver

I disagree Eoria. I used to think that way too and was like "this is such a **** skill" but I really have appreciated it lately. Sure, it isn't nova or so but I like my chain of frost + lucky + iron. And sure, I go through more chi than I would have otherwise but I enjoy the seal and stun.It can make a quick getaway from someone too provided puri don't proc. What I think I like most about it is that people are perplexed that I use it, honestly. As like 0 venos use it on my server, and so I've discovered that's because of the spark cost. And might I point out how little I see hood or nova as well. I think for the same reason but these are far superior skills, are they not?

I would actually judge other venos for using it and immediately mark them off as some stupid player but I think otherwise now. I speak to alot of people who don't play veno too about veno and they're like "yeh frost really is good, I'd use that skill" 'cause they have to be even more mindful of their chi than us. The classes in question being psy and archer.

One of the reasons I made this thread was to become more open-minded to different strategies. For instance, a sage friend of mine feels like natural synergy is a **** skill. But alot of venos proved to me on this thread it isn't.

b:shy

X_volcano_y - Harshlands

Nova is an amazing skill although i dont actually use if i dont have backup/immu/target stunned IDk why they gave it a special casting effect.It has a long channel and the pose and effect make it clear that u r using it so ppl run/stun/anti-stun and they really have enough time to holypath out of range.Simply all can see a huge puple circle with skulls and a pkata up in the air. i would perfer to spark at least i am immune for secs. soul shatter is a powerfull skill too if u have the no channel pot,nova with nox and sins cant do anything about it

Azura - Lost City

X_volcano_y - Harshlands wrote: »

Nova is an amazing skill although i dont actually use if i dont have backup/immu/target stunned IDk why they gave it a special casting effect.It has a long channel and the pose and effect make it clear that u r using it so ppl run/stun/anti-stun and they really have enough time to holypath out of range.Simply all can see a huge puple circle with skulls and a pkata up in the air. i would perfer to spark at least i am immune for secs. soul shatter is a powerfull skill too if u have the no channel pot,nova with nox and sins cant do anything about it

They run, or use some kind of immune, so what? If they run, they got to come back, otherwise they lose. If they waste an immune, well gratz! Now they can't immune against purge or soemthing even bigger b:victory


Even though nova is very noticeable, people won't always be able to escape. The key about nova is to try to to target as many people as posible so you cause more havoc. If you target just one guy, it's not very effective. Also you need to calculate when someone is vulnerable. For example if you are in NW, and someone uses Ironguard to dig flag, do you think they wil be able to resist nova? Ok, they jsut expent a pot to dig flag, so their pot is out. They are carrying the flag, so their genie is disabled, therfore, they can't resist. Or when after I use nova, they use faith. Then what I do is to purge them, and while I'm purging them I know very well they can't resist my purge cause they just used faith.

So, instead of using a spark in frost, I would rather save another one to cause more havoc.

Artymis - Dreamweaver

i do agree with azura b:cute remembering what your opponent has already used makes them more prone to making mistakes and therefore an easier kill. who doesn't love that? b:pleased

Desdi - Sanctuary

Artymis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i do agree with azura b:cute remembering what your opponent has already used makes them more prone to making mistakes and therefore an easier kill. who doesn't love that? b:pleased

I love it when BMs/Barbs are about to HF/Arma and I use Chi burn. They proceed to use chi pots (usually) and that only screams of how vulnerable they just became b:chuckle

I'm still not as experienced though so I'm still learning of various things my opponents do and try to take advantage of that. I don't get to PvP much though (I only really TW and NW once in a blue moon b:surrender).