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New skill & new pets-upgrades discussion

Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Venomancer
NEW PATCH CHANGES:
- Looks like the EXP from killing monsters is NOT increased for pets.
- Bramble: skill damage reflect is 25% for Sage/Demon, 20% for lvl10. Normal Bramble works on auto attacks only.
- Hercules and Phoenix can't go on land+air+water unless they evolve apparently.
- New legendary pets get land+air+water inhabitant from lvl1.
- Bramble Hood no longer overwrites Bramble Guard.


Visit the full evolution and upgraded pets guide here.




Older posts~
EDIT 28/03/13:
I organised the post and cleaned it up a little, added a few new things that have been said in the latest posts.
EDIT 08/04/13:
Added a few more sources and information.
EDIT 11/04/13:
Added few extra bits of information and links. Removed some old links/sources that are no longer viable and/or useful.
EDIT 14/04/13:
More tweaks, extra information and links added.
EDIT 30/04/13:
Added some calculations that have been discovered.
EDIT 26/05/13:
Added link from dupethefile as previous link was no longer working. Not much info to add :(
EDIT 10/06/13:
Added some spreadsheets.


Short summary of upcoming changes (scroll down to find sources and more information):
- Pets will be changing their appearance (evolve) upon hitting lvl100 through the training mode (List of currently known evolve-able pets).

- Pets will be affected by the Venomancer's gear and stats once they have evolved via training mode:
HP
Attack (weapon attack + rings)
Defense (both magic and physical)
Attack level
Defense Level

Each pet will have a certain value of coefficient (please refer to the posts down for more information).

- There will be a new daily event to acquire various pet skills (including rare ones; needs confirmation) and items to be used in the training mode. The daily seems to run from 8:00 to 23:30 server time (may change for our version). (Video demonstration of the new daily.)

- There will be a new way to train pets, Training Mode, with which you can teach pets exclusive skills, change personalities and level them.

- There will be two new pets; Monkey and Harpy. They appear to be boutique pets, same/similar price as Hercules/Phoenix. The monkey appears to be a solid DD pet designed for endgame PvP (may or may not be better than the phoenix; will need testing
). The harpy appears to be a PvE oriented pet with magic attacks, ranged attacks and AOE attacks.

- It appears that we will be able to summon the legendary pets (both new and old) in all kind of habitats (eg. Phoenix in instances). This will give them an advantage over regular pets.

- EXP gained by killing monsters will be increased. Pets will also be able to gain EXP in the training mode.

- Pets will keep their 4 basic skills and via evolving will acquire 2 new personality skills and 1 exclusive skill. That's 7 skills in total.

- There will be about 30 different personality types. Each type will come with two additional pet skills.

- List of exclusive skills for the evolved pets (will need to google-translate it).
List of exclusive skills (by Desdi). (spread sheet so you won't need to translate it but original source has more information).

-List of personality skills (by dupethefile).
List of personality skills (by Desdi).






Older posts, sources, links:
Hey everyone.
Some of you may already know about this but there is an upcoming patch in PW-CN that will include some new skill(s) and pet upgrades.

We have already acquired the new Venomancer/Barbarian forms but we're still missing a skill that was announced:


Linghuan Fox : consumes one spark, after transformed evasion increased by 400%, immune to any movement debuff, recover 10% max hp every second, last for 15 seconds, can not be purged, requires Butterfly Plume Form to use, does not shared cool down.




http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/...27/68881.shtml

Relevant google translated information:

PWC is about to launch a new pet evolution system. Its veno's time to shine again

Pets evolution system will allow the pet to inherit 5 status from his master:

HP
Attack
Defense
Attack level
Defense Level

How much each ability will be inherited is based on a "inherit coefficient" that will be completely random generated making each pet unique.

Furthermore the pets will have two customization more "Strong" and "Crazy", basically you can use these customization to improve pets offensive (Crazy) and tank (strong) capabilities of the pet further enforcing the uniqueness of the pet.

As if that were not enough, pets appearance will change with accessories, colors, flames etc.

The most important change is that each pet is unique so it can be possible to catch two sawflies, both with very different "inherit coefficient" and so different status.

So yea they are enforcing uniqueness on the pet system, the new system works like "Individual Values" system from Gotta catch 'em all, the system is scheduled for Early (probably January) 2013.

PWCN give new informations about the new pet system: http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20130322/69530.shtml


From what I understood:

1- The new content will be launched in April,2 in PWCH. So the new system, news pets, news pet's appearances and a lot of other news will be implemmented.

2- The Monkey King (WuKong) will be a pet for Physical Attacks, and The Haypy (Kunpeng) a pet for Magical Attacks.

3- Harpy and Monkey King will have new skills. And all of the pets can get two more skills (needs confirmation), 6 skills for each pets. I have a doubt if this is 2 new skills or it is the 2 news customizations: Crazy and Strong. I need confirmations for this.

4- New pet skills will be implemmented. According the text will be 100 different skills for you mix. (Needs confirmation).

5- Each pet will have a inherit coeficient based in the main function of this pet. Example:
Pheonix will have a high inherit coefficient for the attack power, but a low coefficient for the deffense. And the hercules a high coefficient for the deffense but a low coefficient for the attack power. But you can TRAIN the hercules to cause multiple injuries and the phoenix to use defensive and attack skills. I think that that this TRAINING, is the 2 new customizations: "Crazy" (Offensive) and "Strong" (Defensive)

6- The habitat of the Phoenix and Hercules will be changed. You will can lead them to the land, air and sea.
Hey, my friends venos, i have good news today.

First of All here's the links:
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20130325/69540.shtml
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20130325/69545.shtml
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20130325/69544.shtml
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20130325/69543.shtml

This week the wanmei will post some spoilers until April,2, this is my hint.

So, my translations of this news are:

1- Sorry, but the pet leveling will NOT be removed. The wanmei confirmed this now, but in this new system, the pet leveling will be furthered. The pet can gain exp by feeding, and training. I don't know if will have a special food. But the exp gained by killing monster will be increased. The training mode is basically kill monster. According to wanmei, the 105 is no longer a dream. (Needs Confirmation).


2- In the training mode the veno can improve the inherit coefficient, the level, and other things, like personal skills of pet.

3- There will be a new daily event, and the rewards are:
Pet skills books including blessing, claws and other powerful blessing skills
Musk deer Lingzhu: combat pet evolution (can be exp for pet), pulp washing (i don't know), character training and feeding the necessary materials.
A skill book for veno called Yao Qi strike (squirrel), this is the same name of bewitch before the Descent Expansion launch here, so can be a bewitch squirrel.
The rewards are based in your performance on the event. I don't know if only venos can do this event.

4- When the pet reach the level 100, the appearance will change and it will become more powerful.

5- Combat pet can also be in the battle dispersed the enemy's attention.

And there are other things that I have to investigate, the texts have something about:
"The evolved combat pet will randomly get a one hundred kinds of character, one hundred kinds of personality broadly divided into two categories: one is offensive and another is defensive"
"One hundred kinds of character choices, each character has corresponding two character skills"
"The battle pet training develop personality"
My friend said the veno will be able to fight against the pet, and this wil be the Traning Mode, but I don't know, the translation doesn't says this exactly.

List of upcoming pet skills.

I have Good News today:

Traning Mode:

In the Pet Windown, the will be a new button, that will open the Training Interface:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9934/20130329170148.jpg

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8141/2f738bd4b31c8701e7204b9.jpg
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/198/0823dd54564e925806767f9.jpg


So in the Training Mode the veno can change the pet atributtes, "personality", learn Exclusives Skill...
The training mode will use materials have gotten from the new daily event (Musk deer Lingzhu). Only pets level 100+ can be trained. The pets will change of appearance when you train them, the pet will evolve. The personality is a new system that you can give them characteristics. Some Exclusives SKills depends from the Personality.

Skill bar of the phoenix after Training

Skill Bar of the Sawfly after learnt new Skill in the Training Mode

There are a lot of links that I source, then I edit.

First of all, the inherit coefficient is based on Venomancer's gear

There will be 5 inherit coefficients, each coefficient corresponds to one stat. Each pet will have a maximum value for each coefficient. Look for this image:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5010/08f790529822720e5b6c309.jpg

It's a phoenix upgraded. The first red bar, it's the attack power coefficient. The phoenix has 75% a maximum value for the attack power. In the image, the phoenix is inhering only 66%, but the veno can train the attack power coefficient of phoenix to 75%. (Remember Training Mode?)
The second bar is defense coefficient. The same defense percentage value applies to both physical and magic defenses.
The third bar is HP. The fourth is Attack level and the Fifth is Defense level.
The maximum values of inherit coefficients that you can reach in the the phoenix are:
75% for attack power
20% for defense
20% for HP
90% for Attack Level
60% for Defense Level.
When this expansion launch here your pet won't have the maximun value for each coefficient, this will be random, the coefficient will be random at the beginning. When you train the pet will can reach the maximum value for all coefficients.

The skill bar of phoenix in image has 7 Skilks. The 3 extras skills, 1 is exclusive, the other two are personality skills. The exclusive skill of phoenix deals fire damage, triple damage in the air, and damage reduction for all damage received, lasts 15s.


Here's the images of the the Stats and New Skills of Harpy and Monkey King:

Harpy
Monkey King

The Exclusives Skills of Monkey king, one grants 30% of damage bonus, and reduces in 75% the damage received by players. And the other one is a Aoe Skill.
The Exclusives Skills of Harpy, the first increase maximum life in 30% and grants 80% of damage in monsters. The other two skills are group attacks, AoE skills. According a player of PWCH the cooldown of harpy skills and the cast its very short, like 1 second. It's a pet for damage in monsters.
The Herc exclusive skills are two, one grants aggro the other one damage reduction.

Links: http://bbs.w2i.wanmei.com/viewthread.php?tid=2240221&extra=page%3D2
http://bbs.17173.com/thread-7189372-1-1.html
http://bbs.17173.com/thread-7188871-1-1.html
[/QUOTE]

I found a couple of things from PWBR channel.


Highlights:
- There will be a new daily event to acquire various pet skills (including rare ones) and items to be used in the training mode. The daily seems to run from 8:00 to 23:30 server time.

- Pets will keep their 4 basic skills and via training will acquire 2 new personality skills and 1 exclusive skill. That's 7 skills in total.

- Confirmed that the Pheonix will "change habitat" and be able to be used in land, air and water. It also mentions "other pets" and includes Hercules.

- EXP gained by killing monsters will be increased. Pets will also be able to gain EXP in the training mode.


It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10
Post edited by Desdi - Sanctuary on
[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
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Comments

  • maxwel12maxwel12 Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i cant wait b:dirtyb:dirtyb:dirtyb:dirty the devs finaly are giving venomancers what we need they already gave us new sick skills in the morai expansion but now they are willing to give us another new skill I LOVE YOU DEVS !!!!!
  • Vitenka - DreamweaverVitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well - speaking as sage - the alt-foxform gives 35% of a spark, so that's not much of a concern.

    More of a concern is.. what the heck am I going to do with more accuracy? When was the last time anyone actually MISSED with a foxform skill?

    The regen might be nice for grinding though - trade a spark for hp seems a lot more efficient than triple-sparking for not very much mana.

    Immunity to movement debuff; well, if I can ever actually USE it, maybe useful for PVP. But ***ing archers and sins means it's not terribly relevant.

    The pets - obviously, no comment until we see what you have to do to get them; and what their stats are.
    An even better tank is intriguing - may open up more tanking opportunities.
    The nix++ they'll have a hard time making good enough to be worth upgrading to without bringing back complete overpoweredness. I got the hint from another thread that this stuff is going to be like the seeker skills - using stuff up every time. This could be a problem. But yeah; I'll put up with another NW or two for new pets.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens TearPhoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    interesting skills , though accuracy boosts are a bit negligible , more variety is welcome.

    If those new pets are upgrades to the legendaries , it's no-doubt that they will be harder ( or pricier to obtain). However , updates are nice , and our legendaries seriously need some power up

    A land/water hybrid though is fairly usefull.

    Till now im satisfied with the demon/sage and lvl 79/100 skills improvement , china stopped smoking and started working i guess.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • krisndakrisnda Forum cat Posts: 4,654 Community Moderator
    edited November 2012
    I will be one happy veno if this happens.
  • Baby_pho - Heavens TearBaby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    that dog looking thing with 2 horns is suppose to be the new land AND water pet? i used google translater. anyone confirm this? im just happy that barbs and venos no longer look ugly in fox/tiger form. its separate skills but still when u go afk or something you look cute.
  • Crescendia - HarshlandsCrescendia - Harshlands Posts: 805 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    That is such a beautiful transformation D:

    I find every veno skill useful for different things, quite a few of them are situational. If I need more chi I'd use the new Butterfly transformation form to gain it.

    I'll need to see the other new skills to figure out when I could use them, but I'll probably find a situation to use the skill xD
    Originally Posted by Curses - Harshlands

    Sidenote: hilarious name for a boat: "Yeah Buoy".

    b:laughb:laugh
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - HarshlandsXx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    They look nice I just hope they are not all 3 lvl101+, so baby veno can use them too, but do you know if it's rare pets or gonna be in the boutique?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • SxeChik - ArchosaurSxeChik - Archosaur Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'm so happy for veno b:cute it's about time!
    Insanity b:thanks
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The unknown pet is indeed a land and water pet, at least according to what's said on the PW CN forums.
    Harpy and Monkey are both upgrades of the existing legendary pets. The required items are going to be obtained via NW most likely.


    I also agree with Crescendia that most veno skills are useful but some of them very situational. I think it would be nice if this new skill would only cost 50 Chi perhaps. That would make it more useful to me.
    We'll probably have to wait and see what it brings to the table.

    One thing I'm looking forward to is to see how the new fox transformation looks like in embrace!b:laugh
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • MANray_ - SanctuaryMANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    With only one skill available this new alternative to Foxform seems rather limited, especially if it shares the same 6 seconds cooldown period. The increases to phys res and accuracy seem to be on par with what we currently get, so this is isn't really the point to this new form. What seems to matter here is the alternate effects; Demon remains practically unchanged (60% speed increase) although if this isn't limited to only 6 seconds (unlikely from the description) it could have some use in PvP for approaching kiters or escape. I don't have a clue what "chance of getting killing blow" means exactly, although a 5% chance doesn't appear to be significant. The Sage version seems slightly more useful, however small the chi gain.

    It appears obvious to me, however, you would only use this new form in order to cast the linghuan skill, which pretty much would only benefit already capable melee fighter builds. If the immunity to movement debuffs lasts through a further transformation to any of the other two forms sage venos could benefit from a natural way of effectively using Feral, although the complexity of the sequence, as well as times involved, make this a rather limited advantage. As for the heal, 10 seconds to full health is not brilliant, but can be worked with pots and lasts for a fair bit. The way to use this, as mostly a panic button, would be to macro the new form with the skill, assuming this is insta-cast like Foxform, so that you'd have an emergency heal. In PvE this isn't so bad given the relative smaller chi requirements if you're not spamming Lending Hand or Nova, it could certainly come in handy for soloers, while in PvP this could be a good answwer to sudden attacks from rivals that are not 1-2 hitting you, especially if the previously mentioned possibility to combo this with Feral materializes.

    On the pets, we have no clue as to what stat increases will actually be, although in order to be relevant it seems they should involve attack/deffense levels or the bility to benefit from those already possesed by the veno. I've already expressed elsewhere my view that there is good chance the worst excesses relating to both legendary pets could be revived by the upgrades, I'm certainly not looking forward to any new soloing capabilities or PvP unbalance these could bring to the class. I do like the idea of an amphibian pet and this is the only of the three models I find aesthetically pleasing.
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Demon Fox Form is already a permanent speed buff if you keep changing form and I was happy they kept that with Demon Butterfly Plume as well. I don't think I could ever part with that speed boost D: I'm too used to it!

    It would be silly to have a new fox form just for a new skill though so I assume we can still use the old fox skills regardless of which fox form we transform into. We'll have to wait and see I guess...

    I have to agree with you on the design part; harpy is kinda meh and I'm not a fan of monkeys (though still better than Hercules' current look). Stat-wise, I hope they'll make Venomancer pets like summons and be affected by gear stats, attack and defence levels and refines on top of their current stats. That might bring more life into the non-legendary pets that have been long forgotten :(

    Sure, r9 or G16 with high refines Venomancers would have the upper hand with pets but I don't really mind that because every Venomancer would benefit from this system.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Pelli - DreamweaverPelli - Dreamweaver Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Demon Fox Form is already a permanent speed buff if you keep changing form and I was happy they kept that with Demon Butterfly Plume as well. I don't think I could ever part with that speed boost D: I'm too used to it!

    It would be silly to have a new fox form just for a new skill though so I assume we can still use the old fox skills regardless of which fox form we transform into. We'll have to wait and see I guess...

    I have to agree with you on the design part; harpy is kinda meh and I'm not a fan of monkeys (though still better than Hercules' current look). Stat-wise, I hope they'll make Venomancer pets like summons and be affected by gear stats, attack and defence levels and refines on top of their current stats. That might bring more life into the non-legendary pets that have been long forgotten :(

    Sure, r9 or G16 with high refines Venomancers would have the upper hand with pets but I don't really mind that because every Venomancer would benefit from this system.

    +1 this.

    I've gotten too used to my demon fox form and honestly, I'm not exactly sure if the mana reduction is still there with the new form but I like the fact that it was kept the way demon fox form was with its demon effect.

    And on the new pet system, I also hope they make it that way because, well, the veno pets system hasn't been touched in a while and it would be kinda useful to get back on the board after four long years. Venos were neglected for so long anyway so why couldn't we benefit from a revamp of our pet system?

    I seriously hope the devs in China finally stopped being lazy for a change... b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Ponies! :3
  • Crescendia - HarshlandsCrescendia - Harshlands Posts: 805 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I also want to know if upgrading the nix/herc to the harpy/monkey resets their skills. Because i'd like to keep the skills I Invested in them already. b:shutup
    Originally Posted by Curses - Harshlands

    Sidenote: hilarious name for a boat: "Yeah Buoy".

    b:laughb:laugh
  • MANray_ - SanctuaryMANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Of course you guys are absolutely right in that demon foxform can be used as a near permanent speed buff, but still there would be a tactical advantage to being able to change into any of the two traditional forms at a second's notice, which currently demon venos do not enjoy because of cooldown considerations, meaning you may be stuck for a few seconds in a form that is not the most convenient for a given build or battle. The new form not sharing a cooldown would make this more convenient to use for speed. Now, as I expressed earlier I don't consider this likely as I don't have any actual reasons to believe the new form would work different on this respect, I was merely mentioning a possibility in passing while trying to speculate about what this new transformation could bring to the table. I also mentioned Sage would have some advantage, in NW terms you could spawn with a spark and a half, then transform into whatever form better suited your combat stlye and after use the new form as you heal and move into battle once again, after which you would transform back, getting 70 chi for your trouble. For this you would go over two sparks, opening possibilities such as Bramble Hood which are certainly an advantage in PvP.

    As on whether foxform skills will be available in the new transformation, I would have expected the description to read "werefox" skills and not plume thingy whatever. From the information we have available so far, I personally see this as unlikely.
  • Baby_pho - Heavens TearBaby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I also want to know if upgrading the nix/herc to the harpy/monkey resets their skills. Because i'd like to keep the skills I Invested in them already. b:shutup

    ^ this
  • BungaSakura - Raging TideBungaSakura - Raging Tide Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    This is a stupid question tho... is it the upgrade pet is only herc and nix? WTH, while mystic dont have to level up their pet, dont have to buy from boutique the summon and they all getting all the benefit freely. and yet we still need to buy herc and nix to get the upgrade pet???? isnt stupid?????
  • Vitenka - DreamweaverVitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Well, we're going off of a half baked translation ("Urine Explosion!" being the funniest mistranslated bit) so we don't know for sure yet; but there seemed to be a mention of being able to get them from scratch.

    But yeah; I very much doubt they'd kill one of their cash cows. The 'from scratch' is unlikely to be cheap. (But who knows? They nuked the recast market quite happily)
  • Jeremied - SanctuaryJeremied - Sanctuary Posts: 2,259 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'm super excited to see some Untamed love. The new forms are pretty cool, although that fox form is AMAZING. Such beautiful texturing and mesh detail.

    <_< One thing I can't believe is that people aren't more excited over getting a pet Monkey King D: Journey to the West is one of my favorite chinese epics and the fact that this pet seems to be based on Sun Wukong is just awesome! If it is indeed a butterball upgrade, I may just have to break my promise to never get one and get gathering Source of Force.

    I'm excited to see if the amphibian kirin is even going to be implemented. I heard it was an upgrade to a pet on the p2p version of PW, since we don't have that pet, I hope they still implement it.

    Harpy lady...ehh, she's blue, so she has that going for her. I'd rather have that than a flying BBQ.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~Demon as of 5/6/12 - On the night where the moon is closer to the earth and brighter than any other night in the past 18 years.~

    Slow and steady stays alive~ I'm in no rush, I'm enjoying the journey to end game just as it was ment to be. b:victory
    "You sir, are why I love clerics <3" < Liba - Heaven's Tear
    b:thanks Well thank you Liba<3
  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Wait, so we are getting 2 new transformations?

    The Demon/Sage Butterfly Plume Form seems kinda useless to me. It gives the same boost that the normal fox form, expect it increases a bit your critical hit rate for 6 seconds.

    That skill that you can only use with this "butterfly form" (imagines a veno transformed in a butterfly") better be good or I won't need this.

    And the Demon linghuan Fox (veno skill, not demon skill) sounds pretty cool, but it takes one spark. We have so many skills that use chi already, it will be in certain situations when we use it only. Perhaps they should upgrade crush vigor, 80% chance to give chi, and lending had 30%.
    <_< One thing I can't believe is that people aren't more excited over getting a pet Monkey King D: Journey to the West is one of my favorite chinese epics and the fact that this pet seems to be based on Sun Wukong is just awesome! If it is indeed a butterball upgrade, I may just have to break my promise to never get one and get gathering Source of Force.

    I don't know much about Chinese epics, but I've always thought that that monkey looks like a baller. I can't wait to see all those pets coming b:dirty
  • MANray_ - SanctuaryMANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    <_< One thing I can't believe is that people aren't more excited over getting a pet Monkey King D: Journey to the West is one of my favorite chinese epics and the fact that this pet seems to be based on Sun Wukong is just awesome! If it is indeed a butterball upgrade, I may just have to break my promise to never get one and get gathering Source of Force.

    Dude, you're overthinking this. Yes the monkey king pet is clearly based in Sun Wukong, but if you want to get literal, why would one of the most powerful individuals in existence, especially one known for such arrogance so as to defy the Gods themselves, put himself at the beck and call of lowly huli jing spirits? While PW is obviously inspired in Chinese folklore it should be treated as its own mythology (the Tideborn and Earthguard expansions pretty much wrecked any real connections) and the PW monkey but king over Eldergoths and the lemurids and tarsids found on the areas surrounding Tellus. By this standard the herc should be considered an offensive figure by both Westerners (butterball makes for a very poor representation of Greek Heracles) and Easterners (I've always considered it self apparent it is clearly inspired on the Budai).

    Now, the really rotten thing about this is that this is yet another blow against the original, beautifully designed, pet system. We only have hints at what it was actually meant to be (I've long speculated rare pets to have been designed as the original ultimates) but it is apparent it meant to provide different choices for a number of different pet roles. It wasn't even legendary pets that first wrecked it, the Magmite being made a pet with both superb tanking stats and high damage output was the very first blow even before the game was actually released (it wasn't the original design team that was responsable for this) but its low mag def at least allowed us the ilusion of possible uses for magic tanks, and had you been around when this version of the game first got started you would have been surprised at how active this forums were on discussing every single pet you can find on the game (from centipeds to carapests) even although we already had a wealth of knowledge derived from the Malaysian players. It was one of the points of playing veno, I remember players in other classes mocking us because of this, and how many of us were dedicated to going around taming and leveling all different kinds of pets. Walkers were yet another blow (even if we had long known by that point that magic tanks were unnecessary) and so were the dinos (there was something cool about the lowly scorp being the highest dps available). Taking luring away from our class was bad too, as it not only killed a niche of pets but limited our class to being wanted only as debuffers, which all things considered really comes down to a couple of skills.

    And it is disapointing that with all the pressure for our class to conform to a handful of cookiecutters the people at Wanmei cannot even be bothered to use designs that would be appealing to most players. It wouldn't really be that hard to put skills/buffs in the boutique that could allow us to use whatever pets we wanted, and that there would be pros/cons to each of our choices would make it all the better. But no, because regardless of who gets the ball rolling on upgrades the decissions come down to people who are not gamers themselves and who possess no imagination. Let's take these new pets and I would bet you dollars to pesos it all came down to a meeting in between some IT guy and middle management, with penny pinching as the main consideration. The problem to solve here wasn't the power creep making pets obsolete, but the people investing on stuff like R8 or G15 for their veno alts (we can hardly speak of new players anymore) no longer bothering on getting legendary pets. So an upgrade was mandated as a fix for keeping one of the boutique's all time best sellers in circulation, and the models were chosen from stuff that wasn't implemented in either PW or any other of Wanmei's Angelica based games in order to keep costs down. A bird pet as upgrade for the bird and a golden pet as upgrade for fatback. They certainly could have done better even with this criteria, have you seen the white phoenix all class pet? As for the monkey king, any actual research on the matter would have told them a sizable segment of the population (at least for Western audiences) wasn't likely to respond to that, there's a reason wolves and eagles are so prevalent as pets in most RPGs... Personally I find monkeys fascinating animals but I wouldn't choose one as a companion for a fantasy character, there's too much of an uncanny valley thing going on there for me. Of course with people used to such ugly pets as hercs ANY sort of upgrade will seem better, and the monkey does at least appear to be an objectively attractive model even if, once again, not to my personal taste.

    The Kirin I do like, not that the creature itself is attractive to me but rather the model. Melville dedicated a full chapter of his Moby **** to a very eloquent discussion of the symbolism and psychological associations evoked by white animals... Sorry for this turning into a long rant. Ironically I seem to be the one overthinking it. b:surrender

    Edit; I can hardly believe that the title of one of the most beautiful and classic English language novels of all time would be censored by the forum.
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    By this standard the herc should be considered an offensive figure by both Westerners (butterball makes for a very poor representation of Greek Heracles) and Easterners (I've always considered it self apparent it is clearly inspired on the Budai).
    I always thought it did...especially with some PWI fanart I've seen. It's just....no. Just no.
    Now, the really rotten thing about this is that this is yet another blow against the original, beautifully designed, pet system. We only have hints at what it was actually meant to be (I've long speculated rare pets to have been designed as the original ultimates) but it is apparent it meant to provide different choices for a number of different pet roles. It wasn't even legendary pets that first wrecked it, the Magmite being made a pet with both superb tanking stats and high damage output was the very first blow even before the game was actually released (it wasn't the original design team that was responsable for this) but its low mag def at least allowed us the ilusion of possible uses for magic tanks, and had you been around when this version of the game first got started you would have been surprised at how active this forums were on discussing every single pet you can find on the game (from centipeds to carapests) even although we already had a wealth of knowledge derived from the Malaysian players. It was one of the points of playing veno, I remember players in other classes mocking us because of this, and how many of us were dedicated to going around taming and leveling all different kinds of pets. Walkers were yet another blow (even if we had long known by that point that magic tanks were unnecessary) and so were the dinos (there was something cool about the lowly scorp being the highest dps available).

    Fully agreeing with this. Even though I didn't post from the beginning I was a regular lurker around the forum and I used to enjoy all the Veno talk.
    It does suck that a few pets made a whole pet system useless and nowadays every Veno has the same pets in their pet bag only keeping a few other pets for the lolz.

    But Wanmei figured they'll get a lot of money if they throw in some legendary pets at us and they were right. The legendary pets have been one of their biggest cash cows. (Although I wonder if putting legendary skills in the Boutique instead would make just as good money?)

    Needless to mention all the discrimination Venos had to go through only for the legendary pets (and all pets in general) to become obsolete. Alright, not completely obsolete but let's be serious now; pets hold very little value endgame and become more of a burden in some instances than actual help. (I'm talking about teamplay, solo play is up to each individual). Pets can't hold aggro and top geared Venos can be just as good or better tanks than their pet.

    I can only hope that the upcoming update will affect all the pets and not just the legendary ones and might possibly breath some life into the pet system again.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Lol manray you are crazy. b:laugh

    The problem with all you said in your essay is that things are not done the way you want them to be. Things are done the way wanmei sees fit, be it bad or good.

    All what you say is good, but perhaps PW never intended to make such complicated pet system. All you are saying is extended enough for making another game based on pets. If you like it take it, if not then I suggest you play Pokemon. It's a very complicated game, it even has hidden stats and obscure growth rates. Also, there is 100s of those little pokemons to catch and train.b:dirty
  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Going a little off topic but...one of the reasons I love Venomancer is because of the pets lol. I am a hardcore Pokemon fan or at least I used to be. I don't play as much as I used to but I still love the games to bits. I probably needed a break from them XD
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Veneir - DreamweaverVeneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Well, the venomancer pet system really is like pokemon...

    You go out into the tall grass(not a safe zone) and find a wild animal that can be captured, weaken it, and catch it. You name it and add it to your party(pet bag) and there's a maximum party size--each <s>pokemanz</s> pet has individual stats based on their species and have to be leveled and taught skills... and if all the pets in the party faint, the venomancer is pretty likeily to 'wither out' (if they're not geared that well anyway)or whatever it is that it shows in pokemon when all your party pokemon die. xD
    And if you run out of space in your party, you can put them into your PC (bank) where they're resting as eggs and you can view all their stats and name and stuff and chose to retrieve them back out (but the loyalty system makes that really annoying.)
    And if you have a bunch of legendary pets in your party, people say that your party is OP and get all mad, and the trainer(veno) ends up just having one or two overpowered level 100 <s>pokemon</s> pets in their party instead of a full party of not-legendaries with different abilities.

    That's a lil' off topic (of skills) so smallerized, but the similarities that the veno system have with pokemon has always cracked me up so freaking much xD.
    I do think it'd be nice if veno pets were effected by the attack/defence levels of their host and for the non-legendary pets to have some sort of like.. all their growth tiers increased by one or something.

    But yeah, I really want to see what the new forme for venos looks like in embrace, too :D!! Maybe we'll have all the tails wrapped around the holder and keep them all warm if we're in the snow~~
    The skills seem more partial and beneficial to sage in that as a sage I can see like three different things to do with these new options, but if I was demon I'm pretty sure I'd just be kinda 'what o_o Euh okay.'
    "Clearly, the only logical option is Squid." -Decus <コ:彡 <コ:彡
    I'm helplessly needless, and needless to say I owe you | Well I'd pull, teeter away, at the earth with my teeth, to touch your face alive | You lie, helplessly still | As your face falls apart | Well I can make your face brand new | Come take my hand and I'll take your hand | And I will pull you out | Into the sun.
    First fell into an army of noob mobs on 19/3/2009~ Upside-down fox and old-colour squid <┻┻~ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MANray_ - SanctuaryMANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Lol manray you are crazy. b:laugh

    No argument there. b:sin

    The problem with all you said in your essay is that things are not done the way you want them to be. Things are done the way wanmei sees fit, be it bad or good.

    And yeah, I do sometimes go a bit overboard with posts... But this really isn't about things going my way. The pet system is still there, even if "upgrades" have made it obsolete, and it is a pity all the work that went into it got dumbed down, especially as you wouldn't really have had to ruin it even if you wanted to encourage the cash shop being used. Yes PW will do things as they see fit, but what I'm saying (and expressing opinions is very much the points of forums) is that nerfing this down pretty much falls in the bad moves category.

    All what you say is good, but perhaps PW never intended to make such complicated pet system. All you are saying is extended enough for making another game based on pets. If you like it take it, if not then I suggest you play Pokemon. It's a very complicated game, it even has hidden stats and obscure growth rates. Also, there is 100s of those little pokemons to catch and train.b:dirty

    Wanmei may never had intended this but the original developers did and, once again, it's my opinion population numbers would be better off (along with PW revenues) if they hadn't so aggressively sought to simplify game mechanics. And it isn't just the veno pet system, look at the way Wizzie skills were originally meant to interact with the game's elemental system, or at the complexity of the BM skill tree. All of the original six classes certainly had some complexity factor going for them almost equivalent to the veno pet system, although let's keep in mind more work had been done on some classes than others by the time the original project ran into trouble. While not perfect, there was a pretty balanced relation in between the advantages and downsides of caster classes for instance, which pretty much got wiped out with the TB expansion...

    b:lipcurl I'm not a big fan of Pokemon games, they certainly lack the complexity of an MMO and while pets are a big part of playing veno there's certainly more to the class than just that. I certainly wouldn't be interested in playing a game that was just venos...
  • Azura - Lost CityAzura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The looks of the new pets are ok to me, and as long as they make pets more useful, I will be happy.
  • Driude - Heavens TearDriude - Heavens Tear Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    My veno's pet is a Weeping Scorpion Queen because i think they are the bestest thingies ever! They've got great attack stats(Just like all scorpions) to complement my defensive HA fox form play style(fossilized Curse is amazing now cant wait to get to 100 and get it! Still dissapointed about other fox skills being untouched :/).

    The Weeping Scorpion Queen looks bright red and is really cool and I taught it consume for lolz :3

    ANyway, if this stuff really does come out I will be INCREDIBLY happy. I'm too poor to get a legendary pet on my veno but a revamped pet system would be great!

    I'm really proud of the devs right now b:pleased

    and also I noticed lots of new moderators :D

    HELLO NEW MODERATORS b:flower
  • SashaGray - Heavens TearSashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dude, you're overthinking this. Yes the monkey king pet is clearly based in Sun Wukong, but if you want to get literal, why would one of the most powerful individuals in existence, especially one known for such arrogance so as to defy the Gods themselves, put himself at the beck and call of lowly huli jing spirits? While PW is obviously inspired in Chinese folklore it should be treated as its own mythology (the Tideborn and Earthguard expansions pretty much wrecked any real connections) and the PW monkey but king over Eldergoths and the lemurids and tarsids found on the areas surrounding Tellus. By this standard the herc should be considered an offensive figure by both Westerners (butterball makes for a very poor representation of Greek Heracles) and Easterners (I've always considered it self apparent it is clearly inspired on the Budai).

    Now, the really rotten thing about this is that this is yet another blow against the original, beautifully designed, pet system. We only have hints at what it was actually meant to be (I've long speculated rare pets to have been designed as the original ultimates) but it is apparent it meant to provide different choices for a number of different pet roles. It wasn't even legendary pets that first wrecked it, the Magmite being made a pet with both superb tanking stats and high damage output was the very first blow even before the game was actually released (it wasn't the original design team that was responsable for this) but its low mag def at least allowed us the ilusion of possible uses for magic tanks, and had you been around when this version of the game first got started you would have been surprised at how active this forums were on discussing every single pet you can find on the game (from centipeds to carapests) even although we already had a wealth of knowledge derived from the Malaysian players. It was one of the points of playing veno, I remember players in other classes mocking us because of this, and how many of us were dedicated to going around taming and leveling all different kinds of pets. Walkers were yet another blow (even if we had long known by that point that magic tanks were unnecessary) and so were the dinos (there was something cool about the lowly scorp being the highest dps available). Taking luring away from our class was bad too, as it not only killed a niche of pets but limited our class to being wanted only as debuffers, which all things considered really comes down to a couple of skills.

    And it is disapointing that with all the pressure for our class to conform to a handful of cookiecutters the people at Wanmei cannot even be bothered to use designs that would be appealing to most players. It wouldn't really be that hard to put skills/buffs in the boutique that could allow us to use whatever pets we wanted, and that there would be pros/cons to each of our choices would make it all the better. But no, because regardless of who gets the ball rolling on upgrades the decissions come down to people who are not gamers themselves and who possess no imagination. Let's take these new pets and I would bet you dollars to pesos it all came down to a meeting in between some IT guy and middle management, with penny pinching as the main consideration. The problem to solve here wasn't the power creep making pets obsolete, but the people investing on stuff like R8 or G15 for their veno alts (we can hardly speak of new players anymore) no longer bothering on getting legendary pets. So an upgrade was mandated as a fix for keeping one of the boutique's all time best sellers in circulation, and the models were chosen from stuff that wasn't implemented in either PW or any other of Wanmei's Angelica based games in order to keep costs down. A bird pet as upgrade for the bird and a golden pet as upgrade for fatback. They certainly could have done better even with this criteria, have you seen the white phoenix all class pet? As for the monkey king, any actual research on the matter would have told them a sizable segment of the population (at least for Western audiences) wasn't likely to respond to that, there's a reason wolves and eagles are so prevalent as pets in most RPGs... Personally I find monkeys fascinating animals but I wouldn't choose one as a companion for a fantasy character, there's too much of an uncanny valley thing going on there for me. Of course with people used to such ugly pets as hercs ANY sort of upgrade will seem better, and the monkey does at least appear to be an objectively attractive model even if, once again, not to my personal taste.

    The Kirin I do like, not that the creature itself is attractive to me but rather the model. Melville dedicated a full chapter of his Moby **** to a very eloquent discussion of the symbolism and psychological associations evoked by white animals... Sorry for this turning into a long rant. Ironically I seem to be the one overthinking it. b:surrender

    Edit; I can hardly believe that the title of one of the most beautiful and classic English language novels of all time would be censored by the forum.

    pot calling the kettle black much?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Veneir - DreamweaverVeneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    x.x Man admitted to 'ironically being the one to overthink it' in that very post, can we please not make this page's scrollbar even smaller by quoting that essay more times xD.

    Anyway, yeah I was thinking of poking one of those weeping scorpion queens as a pet a long while back, too... didn't want to level the thing(this was before dinos were out, then they were out and it was like o_o Okay. Better dps than scrops anyway.)
    and unfortunately it's just a bit weaker when leveled than the noob-level-at-start scrops >:
    Hoping for something other than an 'okay have three pets now ignore the other ones like before' update~
    "Clearly, the only logical option is Squid." -Decus <コ:彡 <コ:彡
    I'm helplessly needless, and needless to say I owe you | Well I'd pull, teeter away, at the earth with my teeth, to touch your face alive | You lie, helplessly still | As your face falls apart | Well I can make your face brand new | Come take my hand and I'll take your hand | And I will pull you out | Into the sun.
    First fell into an army of noob mobs on 19/3/2009~ Upside-down fox and old-colour squid <┻┻~ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens TearPhoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I know this is a bit out of topic , but can we get Silver fox as a pet too .............



    I know i know i'm trapped in the past.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
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