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Soul Degeneration

Squeakytoy - DreamweaverSqueakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
edited April 2012 in Venomancer
I'm not a sage veno, so I've never really bothered to use soul degeneration. But on a boss that's immune to amplify, does using soul degeneration have any significance? Do amp resistant bosses regenerate aenough HP to make soul degeneration worth using on them?
Post edited by Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver on

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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Back in the days, it was useful for Caster Nirvana because the squad focus would switch to the adds and it just added extra time to the boss killing if I didn't use soul degeneration. It is still handy if this occurs but now more often than not my squads are capable of doing both boss and the adds.

    Other than that, it's just handy in situations when the boss is left unDD'd like the chicken boss in Nirvana or the queen boss. Other than that, there's no much use but I still cast it because I go to fox form for myriad rainbow anyway and if the boss is immune to amplify I may as well cast soul degeneration while waiting on the fox form cooldown (demon version cuts the evasion so in theory it helps the blademasters/barbarians I run with a little xD).
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  • Squeakytoy - DreamweaverSqueakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    (demon version cuts the evasion so in theory it helps the blademasters/barbarians I run with a little xD).

    Funny thing about evasion in PvE. If you use any kind of physical defense debuff on a monster, (ironwood, tangling mire, etc) its evasion becomes zero. And it stays that way until the mob dies. So demon soul degeneration really has no advantage over level 10 in PvE.
  • Itori - Lost CityItori - Lost City Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Hm. Dunno. A veno once criticized me for using it claiming it was useless because squad deals more damage than the boss can regen. I sorta laughed at that though, cause I used to use SD after Demon Crush Vigor in Caster NV to fill fox cooldown time before all bosses became amp-able. The same veno had no idea why I was using Crush Vigor, or what made Demon version so special.

    Well, it doesn't do much, but it's better than standing around doing nothing, in my opinion. Only use it in regular NV on the ones that can't be amped, stops boss from regening during AoE seal? >.> Plus again, just fills fox cooldown. Since I use human mainly to DD. As a Sage veno, it's the first thing to use since 20% hp debuff is pretty much the best you can get. Only Sage Archers get that much with STA, Blood vow being 18%, lvl 10/Demon STA 16%, and sage sins get like 10%? Deicides can debuff hp too but um.. not that reliable.(Is also 10%) Anyways, it's one of those skills that is really awesome for one culti, but the other version is pretty much worthless. I think the hp debuff is what makes SD most worth using.
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  • Elanxu - DreamweaverElanxu - Dreamweaver Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Back in the days, it was useful for Caster Nirvana ...

    i agree with wat you are saying, but i couldnt help but laugh when you said "back in the days" about caster nirvy. it would be even a stretch to say "back in the days" about regular nirvy. caster nirvys not been around very long.

    but yea, that detracts from the point of ur post.
    the basis is to calculate the regeneration speed of the boss, and your personal damage speed, in any way that you directly or indirectly affect the boss' hp. i just dont think bosses that are left un DDed for a few seconds would be a good time for soul degeneration. a simple attack would probably chunk out more of the bosses hp than a degenerate.

    i dont have much experience with soul degeneration, since i never use it on my veno, but does it affect reset mobs/caster nirvy vanished ancestor (when someone dies, it regenerates a portion of its hp)/charm/special HP regeneration buffs? just curious.
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  • Squeakytoy - DreamweaverSqueakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited April 2012

    i dont have much experience with soul degeneration, since i never use it on my veno, but does it affect reset mobs/caster nirvy vanished ancestor (when someone dies, it regenerates a portion of its hp)/charm/special HP regeneration buffs? just curious.

    It only stops regeneration. It has no effect on charms or other "instant" healing effects. It will also stop regen from potions/HP food, but only if you cast it after the potion/food was used. (if they use another after soul degen hits, it will still heal them) I've never tried it on a monster the resets, but I imagine that it wouldn't work.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens TearPhoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    the phoenix boss in FF had some average HP regenaration that actually made a bit difference than other mobs/bosses.


    Most annoying thing is to see venos use amplify then immediately overwrite it with SD. I see this quite much lately and can't understand who tells them to do such a thing.


    SD becomes useful when sage , especially at PVE , but keep in mind that Claw BM/Archers who use Deicides overwrite the MAX HP debuff of SD.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Funny thing about evasion in PvE. If you use any kind of physical defense debuff on a monster, (ironwood, tangling mire, etc) its evasion becomes zero. And it stays that way until the mob dies. So demon soul degeneration really has no advantage over level 10 in PvE.

    I'm aware of that :p
    but i couldnt help but laugh when you said "back in the days" about caster nirvy

    Rofl, I guess that did sound weird, haha. I meant to say "back in the days when not all bosses could be amp'd" but I guess I missed half the sentence b:chuckle

    And it just really depends. Yes, in my squads now it's sort of useless but when I first started Nirvana bosses didn't go down so fast, so many people would die at the chicken boss and all. Judge the situation and act accordingly.

    I know demon's SD is pretty useless but like I said, I got to fox form anyway and if crush vigor is on cooldown I may as well throw in SD.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    the phoenix boss in FF had some average HP regenaration that actually made a bit difference than other mobs/bosses.

    Yes basically SD was needed at some bosses in the past, like Phoenix said. Now most people have strong weapons and can deal massive damage but you can always end up in a bad squad and you ought to be prepared.
    Most annoying thing is to see venos use amplify then immediately overwrite it with SD. I see this quite much lately and can't understand who tells them to do such a thing.

    There was a person once who called me arrogant, when I started doing caster nirvana on a regular basis (before I made my group of caster friends to run it with). They called me that because I told them I'd rather not have another venomancer in squad unless it was someone I knew (friend, faction, person i've run with before etc.).

    Why?

    Because of that thing right there. I got sick of them telling me "rofl why you use crush vigor, its useless", "rofl this boss is not amp-able" (apparently they couldn't even see the animation difference between crush vigor and amplify) and of course...

    They would overbuff my amplify with their lvl10/Sage one right after I had used mine and it wasn't an accident, they did it repeatedly even after I told them. It's not about overwriting my lvl11 one it's about the fact that the boss would end up with no amplify at all! Which is ridiculous, two venos mean amplify all the time!

    Then it's the venomancers who would overwrite my amplify with soul degeneration, venomancers who used their fox form skills apparently not known they deal physical damage.

    I tried to advice them, explain to them but at some point I just said no more venos for my sanity XD Now thank goodness I rarely run with random squads.

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  • Mayfly - DreamweaverMayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    [QUOTE=Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear;16696841SD becomes useful when sage , especially at PVE , but keep in mind that Claw BM/Archers who use Deicides overwrite the MAX HP debuff of SD.[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't matter if it's overwritten by a lower HP debuff, the target won't get its HP back when it's overwritten. And only sage archers have even an equal HP debuff, and I doubt they're as common as sage venos.
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  • Satyrion - Sanctuary_1389862626Satyrion - Sanctuary_1389862626 Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I like use it on the crystal in TW xD
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