PETS: DD vs Tank || Best Flying Pet

13

Comments

  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    gelnd wrote: »
    You do realize Sawflies are level 8, don't you? The only way they get to level 20 is if a veno tames and levels them.

    Yes that is right but lvl 1 plume shot can take it out no more different that variant at lvl 20.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Manakel - Lost City
    Manakel - Lost City Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yes that is right but lvl 1 plume shot can take it out no more different that variant at lvl 20.

    My question is, why would you have lv 1 plume at lv 20?
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    My question is, why would you have lv 1 plume at lv 20?

    I am merely using that as an example.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Cocobelle - Sanctuary
    Cocobelle - Sanctuary Posts: 960 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    My question is, why would you have lv 1 plume at lv 20?

    Because I'm a full support cleric, duh.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Manakel - Lost City
    Manakel - Lost City Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Because I'm a full support cleric, duh.



    The sad thing is, I did know a cleric who had no attack skills whatsoever. And mind you, this was before oracles and hypers. He was in his 70s, too.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The sad thing is, I did know a cleric who had no attack skills whatsoever. And mind you, this was before oracles and hypers. He was in his 70s, too.

    God it must have been hell to get there b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cocobelle - Sanctuary
    Cocobelle - Sanctuary Posts: 960 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    God it must have been hell to get there b:shocked

    ...And how could that person defend himself when he's in a PVP server? b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Unfortunately many people are led to believe they won't be accepted into squads unless they satisfy every single arbitrary parameter an elitist group of players sets for them. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Cocobelle is experienced enough to know exactly what she's doing, but i meet many people in PUGs who do seem like they've been pressured into some of their gearing/skilling choices...
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The sad thing is, I did know a cleric who had no attack skills whatsoever. And mind you, this was before oracles and hypers. He was in his 70s, too.

    That is impossible as you get plume shot as your first skill at lvl 1 shows what you know of Clerics.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Manakel - Lost City
    Manakel - Lost City Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    That is impossible as you get plume shot as your first skill at lvl 1 shows what you know of Clerics.


    By "no attack skills" I meant "lv1 plume and nothing else". I've had three clerics. The first was on DW and got **** at 90. (in hindsight, having my password be abc123 wasn't the best idea). Second was on LC, deleted because of KOS issues at 54, and I am working on the third in between my veno and psy- I have more experience with clerics that any other class.
  • Cocobelle - Sanctuary
    Cocobelle - Sanctuary Posts: 960 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Unfortunately many people are led to believe they won't be accepted into squads unless they satisfy every single arbitrary parameter an elitist group of players sets for them. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Cocobelle is experienced enough to know exactly what she's doing, but i meet many people in PUGs who do seem like they've been pressured into some of their gearing/skilling choices...

    Thank you. I appreciate that. You seem to know the veno class well too. b:victory

    The only thing about it is that a lot of venos think herc is a requirement in order to play a veno when truthfully, it isn't. Sure, squads will love you for having a herc but imo squads will appreciate you more if you know how to use your skills like amping or purging at the right time. Sure, hercs can tank a wide variety of bosses, so can other pets too. The only difference is that hercs can take damage better.

    Plus, herced venos aren't in demand anymore. 5aps BMs are. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    By "no attack skills" I meant "lv1 plume and nothing else". I've had three clerics. The first was on DW and got **** at 90. (in hindsight, having my password be abc123 wasn't the best idea). Second was on LC, deleted because of KOS issues at 54, and I am working on the third in between my veno and psy- I have more experience with clerics that any other class.
    That is still an attack skill never the less and if more want to be full support it is because it is up to them.I wouldn't say they are bad atleast they can keep squad alive and have plume shot for an attack skill and can do their normal quests.

    To Coco. I still see a lot of yellow word with needing HercVeno for FF on Sanc.Herc Venos are still in demand.The Venos in my faction are doing everything to save up for one so they can solo TT and do FF.FF squad require a herc veno.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    That is still an attack skill never the less and if more want to be full support it is because it is up to them.I wouldn't say they are bad atleast they can keep squad alive and have plume shot for an attack skill and can do their normal quests.

    To Coco. I still see a lot of yellow word with needing HercVeno for FF on Sanc.

    Which just goes to show Sanct is full of noobs... I have yet to find why an herc would be necessary, or even more effective, in Frost, especially at the 90+ level range usually requested for these squads....
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Which just goes to show Sanct is full of noobs... I have yet to find why an herc would be necessary, or even more effective, in Frost, especially at the 90+ level range usually requested for these squads....

    Then you are noob as you are showing it here as for the rest Sanc. isn't being the Third oldest server and yes Herc for FF and more so at the 90+ range.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Then you are noob as you are showing it here as for the rest Sanc. isn't being the Third oldest server and yes Herc for FF and more so at the 90+ range.

    Actually, as someone who has run FF from level 75 on, the herc really starts to loose it's value in FF90+. 95+ it's a joke. I see countless herc venos repeatedly asking in world chat for FF90/95+ squads. When you get that high, hercs can't hold aggro against a majority of the DDs and it's incredibly inefficient time-wise and pot-wise to have your full squad nerf to let a herc tank.

    FF is all about fast xp. From 75-90, herc > DDs. When you get to 90+, DDs > herc. (There are some exceptions of course, but this seems to be the norm.)
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Then you are noob as you are showing it here as for the rest Sanc. isn't being the Third oldest server and yes Herc for FF and more so at the 90+ range.

    Tsk, tsk... And here i was thinking you were actually meaning to discuss the issue and avoid flaming...

    I'm well aware of how old Sanct is and what goes on in the server, might want to take a closer look at my avatar...

    And i can punctually state you have provided no argument or reason to substantiate the need for herc at Frost. And if YOU need an herc to make it through Frost with a 90+ squad then you really are in no position to call anyone a noob...
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tsk, tsk... And here i was thinking you were actually meaning to discuss the issue and avoid flaming...

    I'm well aware of how old Sanct is and what goes on in the server, might want to take a closer look at my avatar...

    And i can punctually state you have provided no argument or reason to substantiate the need for herc at Frost. And if YOU need an herc to make it through Frost with a 90+ squad then you really are in no position to call anyone a noob...

    You are at the same lvl as me maybe not my Veno but I have something you don't and I am not flaming you.I don't need to provide an argument as it is widely know most squads want a Herc Veno.This is why Venos in my faction haven't done it yet and they are at the lvl you can do at even I am.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You are at the same lvl as me maybe not my Veno but I have something you don't and I am not flaming you.I don't need to provide an argument as it is widely know most squads want a Herc Veno.This is why Venos in my faction haven't done it yet and they are at the lvl you can do at even I am.

    Well i have done Frost runs... My level 78 Tabby can handle a Bishop without a heal for close to a full amp cycle...

    It is fallacious to argue that herc is necessary only because squads ask for one. And this isn't about you but about misguided attitudes. Most of the squads advertising on WC are someone hypering an undergeared 7x alt and his cleric/barb guildie... Sometimes not even that... And yet they demand 90+ 5.0 aps just so they can shave not even a tenth of the time they waste forming a squad in the first place. I already went through the trouble of estimating the time you loose by using an average dps pet such as the Tabby when compared to a Wanderer, and that's higer dps than herc. It came to about 20 secs for every 10 mins... Which is nothing compared to the time you'll be spending on the lobby just waiting for a WC squad to assemble.

    I'm not saying herc is not convenient, but the only reason people ask for one is so they can blame the veno if anything deviates from a scripted run. God forbid a hypering noob gets killed doing Frost...

    And seriously, venos should get hercs just to get into Frost runs? How many are you actually planning on doing? If you went 100 times and paid 100k for repairs each time, rather than take an herc, you'd be down what? 10 mil? Like a tenth of what a herc is worth? Add 100 TT 3-3 runs for twice that and you're still not halfway to getting a herc even at a cheap 80 mil price tag... Apparently min-maxers have never heard of cost-benefit...

    Oh, but you'll be getting so much more back once you've soloed a few more hundreds of TT runs, yipee.

    Get it straight, i'm not against people using hercs, they're wonderful pets and the best tools for their specialized uses. But the idea all players should be making the exact same choices is sickening to me, and while i'll admit choosing not to get a herc does carry consequences, there is not a single gameplay reason an herc would be needed. It is only convenient, and only for a limited level range.

    So, if you really aren't flaming me, could you please provide an actual gameplay reason for a 90+ squad to need a herc'ed veno? Because asuaging the fears of high level noobs is really not an argument...
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010


    And seriously, venos should get hercs just to get into Frost runs? How many are you actually planning on doing? If you went 100 times and paid 100k for repairs each time, rather than take an herc, you'd be down what? 10 mil? Like a tenth of what a herc is worth? Add 100 TT 3-3 runs for twice that and you're still not halfway to getting a herc even at a cheap 80 mil price tag... Apparently min-maxers have never heard of cost-benefit...

    Oh, but you'll be getting so much more back once you've soloed a few more hundreds of TT runs, yipee.

    It is this that is wrong you won't lose or get 100k repair bills if you have one in fact you will be earning more coin than if you didn't have one.Venos don't need repair bills unlike other classes.You can't build an argument since you don't have a herc and know nothing about them.You may see it action but it is way different when you own one.You get more once you done a few dozen runs

    Hypering I don't think so if this were the case a faction mate of mine might be doing them.I would say that you don't want to save up or even get some real money to even buy one.I sense some jealous in you toward HercVenos and you are being defensive for not having one

    Your arguments have been moot so far and don't go by what other have said.you don't own one so you can't say this and that about them.

    I am not flaming you if I was you would know it and I don't to to provide reason.Their stats is one reason best out of any pet for survivability.btw You make it sound that Herc is mediocre pet that ppl wasted out money on.When you pay real money for this pet then you will see the value in it and this isn't through saving coin.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Xenoria - Lost City
    Xenoria - Lost City Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    gelnd wrote: »
    Re: flying pets. I don't have any experience with "air tanks" as all I've used is a Sawfly and a Skatefish (basically same stats as Sawfly, I just think its a bit prettier :)). I'm very happy with the Skatefish - it is rather squishy, but it does excellent damage, which means I can take out those annoying flying mobs as quickly as possible.
    I was curious to see how closely they compared so I leveled a skatefish.
    comparek.jpg

    they are very close and the skatefish doesnt make that annoying buzzing and its prettier.
    Personaly I will be sticking with the fish as my fly pet.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I was curious to see how closely they compared so I leveled a skatefish.
    comparek.jpg

    they are very close and the skatefish doesnt make that annoying buzzing and its prettier.
    Personaly I will be sticking with the fish as my fly pet.

    It would be interesting to know where the cross-over point is, similar to the Shaodu Cub / Armored Bear crossover point (what is that, about L90? or something similar). Because before that the sawfly would be better, after, the skatefish. If the growth trees are similar.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    It is this that is wrong you won't lose or get 100k repair bills if you have one in fact you will be earning more coin than if you didn't have one.Venos don't need repair bills unlike other classes.You can't build an argument since you don't have a herc and know nothing about them.You may see it action but it is way different when you own one.You get more once you done a few dozen runs

    I obviously meant the Barb's repair bill... You can't be serious that you think an unherc'ed veno gets 100k repair bills... As for not having a herc, spare me the lecture. I'm much more aware of the real limits for an unherc'ed veno than you would be...
    Hypering I don't think so if this were the case a faction mate of mine might be doing them.I would say that you don't want to save up or even get some real money to even buy one.I sense some jealous in you toward HercVenos and you are being defensive for not having one

    Nope, no jealousy here. In fact i'm usually glad that an herc'ed veno joins the squad, i'm well aware of what they can do. And no, in my case the choice is not about money, i'll likely be spending what a herc is worth just on booze today... And eventually i do plan to get a nix. But i do consider cost a legitimate rationale.
    Your arguments have been moot so far and don't go by what other have said.you don't own one so you can't say this and that about them.

    My arguments aren't moot just because you say so. I asked you to provide a gameplay reason, this is something i should be able to understand regardless of whether i own a herc or not. And you honestly believe i can't understand understand concepts such as phys res or dps output without owning one? Is there a super special fun button only herc owners get? Do they look like hot chics instead of ugly fat men once you own one? Please do explain, is soloing instances the better part of the game?
    I am not flaming you if I was you would know it and I don't to to provide reason.Their stats is one reason best out of any pet for survivability.btw You make it sound that Herc is mediocre pet that ppl wasted out money on.When you pay real money for this pet then you will see the value in it and this isn't through saving coin.

    I make it sound like herc is a mediocre pet? Just how exactly? I've always admitted they provide better capabilities to venos in some roles. I've even gone as far as to admit a top tier veno would own one. But value is subjective. I don't mean to solo much of anything in the game nor care to make it into noobish squads. My gearing/skilling goals once i reach 100 (no more until the level cap is raised) i can get without a herc, and after that it will be what? Nirvana runs and PvP? I don't need a herc for either. I want to eventually get Claw for my Tabby and Blessing (perhaps even Strong and Protect) for my Shaodu Cub. This would allow my pets to perform at a top tier level (even if they aren't as good as herc, which i don't claim they would be) and i consider it a legitimate endgame goal. Already i've got unique pets (A Shaodu without Pounce that can Roar and use the Threaten-Tough combo, a fully skilled Tabby that's got Bash and Threaten) with capabilities and a playing style that does set me apart from every other cookiecutter veno.

    What pets you choose depends on what you want to acomplish, which is what i've been saying all along. And honestly this "you don't have a herc so you don't know" argument sounds like bull to me. I asked you to provide a reason relating to actual gameplay and you can't. Whatever you may write you just can't.
  • Xenoria - Lost City
    Xenoria - Lost City Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    It would be interesting to know where the cross-over point is, similar to the Shaodu Cub / Armored Bear crossover point (what is that, about L90? or something similar). Because before that the sawfly would be better, after, the skatefish. If the growth trees are similar.

    Yeh that would be interesting to know. I still have around 40 lvls for either fly pet to catch up to my level so I will try to take screen shots of them. I tend to be forgetful though lol
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Thanks, that would be awesome ^^
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010

    I obviously meant the Barb's repair bill... You can't be serious that you think an unherc'ed veno gets 100k repair bills... As for not having a herc, spare me the lecture. I'm much more aware of the real limits for an unherc'ed veno than you would be... {/quote]I was thinking of Clerics as well not just barb and I was once a hercless Veno.


    Nope, no jealousy here. In fact i'm usually glad that an herc'ed veno joins the squad, i'm well aware of what they can do. And no, in my case the choice is not about money, i'll likely be spending what a herc is worth just on booze today... And eventually i do plan to get a nix. But i do consider cost a legitimate rationale.
    I am glad you realize this maybe instead of booze for week save up for one.


    My arguments aren't moot just because you say so. I asked you to provide a gameplay reason, this is something i should be able to understand regardless of whether i own a herc or not. And you honestly believe i can't understand understand concepts such as phys res or dps output without owning one? Is there a super special fun button only herc owners get? Do they look like hot chics instead of ugly fat men once you own one? Please do explain, is soloing instances the better part of the game?
    you haven't so far and the stats alone are better than any other pet except Nix and no they don't look what you said and soloing you get all the drops and molds.


    I make it sound like herc is a mediocre pet? Just how exactly? I've always admitted they provide better capabilities to venos in some roles. I've even gone as far as to admit a top tier veno would own one. But value is subjective. I don't mean to solo much of anything in the game nor care to make it into noobish squads. My gearing/skilling goals once i reach 100 (no more until the level cap is raised) i can get without a herc, and after that it will be what? Nirvana runs and PvP? I don't need a herc for either. I want to eventually get Claw for my Tabby and Blessing (perhaps even Strong and Protect) for my Shaodu Cub. This would allow my pets to perform at a top tier level (even if they aren't as good as herc, which i don't claim they would be) and i consider it a legitimate endgame goal. Already i've got unique pets (A Shaodu without Pounce that can Roar and use the Threaten-Tough combo, a fully skilled Tabby that's got Bash and Threaten) with capabilities and a playing style that does set me apart from every other cookiecutter veno.
    You have so far and you would get your gear easier with one and most faction want a Leg. Pet.Those pets don't have the stats a Herc has.
    What pets you choose depends on what you want to acomplish, which is what i've been saying all along. And honestly this "you don't have a herc so you don't know" argument sounds like bull to me. I asked you to provide a reason relating to actual gameplay and you can't. Whatever you may write you just can't.
    It isn't untill you do own one as I thought much the same untill I got mine.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You have so far and you would get your gear easier with one and most faction want a Leg. Pet.

    I disagreeeeeeeee. If his goal is level 100, then I'll assume he'll want to end with Nirvana/TT99/Lunarglade 95 or something. I'm not sure about Lunarglade but in 3-2/3-3/Nirvana, Hercules does not make getting your gear any easier than it would've if you used another pet, nor are there any preferences to a Veno with Hercules than a Veno without. At that point, it'd be more preferable if your Veno itself isn't squishy and doesn't require a res at each random aggro/aoe. If they need your Hercs for something at that point, there's probably something wrong with the squad.

    But yea, Hercs is the king of tanking pets. We get that already.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You have so far and you would get your gear easier with one and most faction want a Leg. Pet.Those pets don't have the stats a Herc has.

    I don't know what put this silly idea into your head but let me tell you this.

    My faction is one of the oldest on Lost City server, and we recruit 9x+ only. Never in the history of the game have we recruited by gear. Even your faction that you were so kind as to show us the recruiting list for only "suggests" it. It does not require it. 95% of guilds do not have gear requirements, level requirements are usually the max, as well as activity.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    What the hell are you talking about, Venos don't need repair bills? My Sakyamuni's Light will go from 100/100 durability to shattered in one run of TT2-1. Considering making an AA for bosses and using it as a backup weapon. Sakyamuni's Light for a backup weap when I get my Glaives of Divinity soon as well.

    I have a Shaodu Cub, and he serves me well. If I am not paying attention, bosses that AOE will 2 shot him in TT. He CANNOT tank Suzerex, even with 3 venos healing him and 2 wiz and a BM DDing. I have Mr Bear, my cub, set up for tanking. He's got Flesh Ream, Pierce, Pounce, and Bash, all level 4 (other than pounce).

    As for the non-rare pets... I don't really know. I've had Magmites and such, but I haven't used a non-rare pet since level 37 or so.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I was thinking of Clerics as well not just barb and I was once a hercless Veno.

    Add another 50k for the Cleric's mp food, you still are not at half a herc's cost... And what level did you get your herc? If you're against skilling other pets you obviously didn't spend that much time using them.
    I am glad you realize this maybe instead of booze for week save up for one.

    Too late, i'm still drunk and doing some late night (actually morning) posting before going to bed. It was well worth it. b:sin

    I do have a personal rule never to charge more than US$15.00 a month, the equivalent of a p2p subscription, although i'll admit it's been quite a while since i put any money in the game. With the recent adition of DQ points and the newly anounced expansion i may be charging some however... Although none of that will go towards a herc.
    you haven't so far and the stats alone are better than any other pet except Nix and no they don't look what you said and soloing you get all the drops and molds.

    Yes, i do realize hercs don't actually look like hot chics and that soloing you'd get to keep all drops...
    You have so far and you would get your gear easier with one and most faction want a Leg. Pet.Those pets don't have the stats a Herc has.

    Yes i have, and my posting history is there for everyone to see. I have never encouraged anyone to avoid getting legendary pets under false pretenses, and have always showed my apreciation for those venos who do make that choice as well as shown my respect for their capabilities.
    It isn't untill you do own one as I thought much the same untill I got mine.

    Again, a fallacious argument. You obviously missed my being sarcastic about the super fun button....
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Add another 50k for the Cleric's mp food, you still are not at half a herc's cost... And what level did you get your herc? If you're against skilling other pets you obviously didn't spend that much time using them.
    Where did I say mp food I said repair bill


    Too late, i'm still drunk and doing some late night (actually morning) posting before going to bed. It was well worth it. b:sin

    I do have a personal rule never to charge more than US$15.00 a month, the equivalent of a p2p subscription, although i'll admit it's been quite a while since i put any money in the game. With the recent adition of DQ points and the newly anounced expansion i may be charging some however... Although none of that will go towards a herc.
    That is nice that is why you can't be rational and one reason tweakz treats you the way he does





    Again, a fallacious argument. You obviously missed my being sarcastic about the super fun button....
    No it is not.

    and Manray I ma tired of debating with someone who won't listen go own and enjoy your halffast pets.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.