Is there any point gearing up? - SINS NEED A NERF

hiitsmeguys

So i've gotten to the point where im mostly endgame -minus super high lvl glyphs and arigora gears. I have unlimited $ supply, to max everything completely. But is there even a point?

What I mean is, I've come to realize that no matter how much i gear up, i'll still be no match for any decent endgame maxed sin. I'm sure other non sins feel the same way. I'm losing interest and desire to continue gearing up quickly. I often think it would be a better use of my time and money to just give up on a maxed out toon i've played for 5yrs+ and start a sin from scratch. Is that the reality? Make a sin or give up/quit?

Just as example of how overpowered sins are, look at arena. 3v3 every single ranked squad has a maxed out endgame sin / NP sin. Sin is the only class that can consistently beat equally geared opponents 1v2 and 1v3 even. Hell there's even a sin with a squad full of alts who kills endgame toons 1v3 on the regular. I have not seen a single other class in this game, at any point that could kill 3 equally geared and skilled players solo. Any other class even 1v2 has very little chance, bar some extreme luck.

Think about it, sins have:
1. paralyze
2. sleep
3. stun
4. immobilize
5. silence
6. jumps
7. tidal
8. endless chi
9. att lvl buff with no downside
10. crit buff with no downside
11. deaden nerves
12. numerous escapes
13. 50% amp
14. heals
15. very quick purge
16. 3 different attacks that hit 4-5x within a second for the highest damage of all classes in the game and can bypass charms of anyone.

What do sins own:
2. ARENA - sins own arena hands down - any other classes with the sin are just a bonus - prizes for season will go to all maxed sin squads who carried rest of team
3. TNF - sin own this, highest chance to make last room and nearly always dig the helm
4. PVE - sins by far deal the most damage in pve.
5. PVP - overall there is no better class, small scale or even large scale nowadays

What sins don't own:
1. Veno instance?

Kaly, is there any hope for us non sins in the future? Or should we just not say anything and continue to dump money into toons that will die in 3 seconds to sins regardless of gear? Or do we all just reroll sins?

keihan007#7641

I looked at CN rankings for 3v3 and 6v6 few nights back. Sins are strong there but not nearly dominant enough to justify massive nerfs. The sad part is, they got 42 archers in top200(Highest of all classes) so expect to see that class getting hit again.

Our problem is cheap R9 - Every sin has option to use tanky gear, while on CN every sin uses relatively squishy aps gear. But due our set bonus, non refinable belt and so on. Sins do in fact have enough kill pressure using that tanky gear of theirs, making them a lot tankier than in CN. Basically sins are too tanky for their damage here and reason why they arent getting nerfed is because CN sins are aps sins, have less dmg than ours in DPH gear and everybody ss just generally more tanky in relative terms.

I am personally gearing up a sin at moderate pace but due how **** black friday promos were and my general frustrations with this game I did not actually charge to speed it up. And with my interest shifting towards other game(s) I might not even finish that sin - If I do, great, if not, no big loss.

But to answer your question there really isnt much point to gear beyond endgame nowdays if you arent a sin. You still get roflstomped by sins with far less gear if you are anything but say a BM. And if you arent a sin, you get roflstomped by DBs. Rolling anything else but those two and like a BM at max gear just feels pointless to me.

Like I did estimate S5 bow would of cost me year of HS + ~25b coins[On Et, more on other servers]. You know what kind of alt you can make with that much money? Pretty much endgame one, if you have the patience for it, and assuming you are rolling with one of the "lesser" classes you wont become some unstoppable machine like certain classes, no matter how much money you spend.

catgirldesu

@saxroll Would you mind sharing the information? I don't care about the rankings pe se, but I'm curious about the class trends on CN.

I've personally learnt to not care or worry too much about class balance and all that. It's clear that CN can't or doesn't want to make version-specific class balancing changes and we'll just keep getting whatever CN gets. If I die due to unfair or broken game/skill mechanics or due to class imbalance then... oh well. I try my best, and that's enough for me.

As far as gearing up goes, my gear has been the same since around January, with the exception of my G17r3 untarget weapon. Though the weapon doesn't make me tankier, and after the nerf/fix - call it whichever you prefer - it's not overpowered anymore. I am, however, still slowly working on gearing up only because if I don't have goals to work towards to in this game, then I'll lose motivation to play. Maybe I'll never reach my goals, but that's fine. I'm here for the ride.
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elmo23

For the Arena nowdays if you see some videos almost every 1 try to kill the other squad as fast as they can, if you see good geared players vs good geared sin they just have to wait for like 1 or 3 mins then ths sin will not be OP (tidal, deaden) you need to be ready because sin will do the same as you they wait for you to use pots, genie, etc, the can kill you fast, they die fast if you are smart , there are some videos of a goods sins being ganked on arena when they resist a few mins, but mostly you are right damn sins are OP xD​​

keihan007#7641

catgirldesu wrote: »

@saxroll Would you mind sharing the information? I don't care about the rankings pe se, but I'm curious about the class trends on CN.

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Their rankings are quite shocking though, their top team is Sin + BM + SB, which you could see working here but thats not exactly usual setup there. But instead of giving some vague numbers I decided to rewrite the post and get the actual data for 3v3 top200 rankings:

BMs: 5, top rank 2
Wizards: 7, top rank 21
Clerics: 33, top rank 4
Archers: 35, top rank 13
Barbs: 9, top rank 5
Venos: 18, top rank 10
Sins: 29, top rank 1
Psys: 16, top rank 9
Seekers: 4, top rank 24
Mystics: 2, top rank 67
DBs: 28, top rank 6
SBs: 14, top rank 19

So I guess rankings updated and some archers dropped from there but they are still pretty well represented.

catgirldesu

Thank you for taking the time to check!

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hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 any hope for us non sins? or time to just stop progressing or reroll sin?

laiwaisan

i dont know if you ever get tired of it you can send me your http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/36676
any anything cool you have that isnt bound

blazerboy

At this point I log on so HS and log off basically nothing worth spending money or time to me especially after the free full Jsod/deity a lot of ppl got it’s whatever just play this game like it’s Facebook, log chill with friends afk

bizzah

.

jsxshadow

I recently rolled a sin, I can hit my own barb in def weap for upto 40k with elimination alone on 65k pdef. Welp. It's what I've been saying all along. Sins are stupid broken.

I also don't get why CN doesnt have that. Yeah, little bit less damage, yeah, little bit tankier...but even a non att-lvl sharded sin in Def-Blessing with 30k base can easily oneshot a 120+ def lvl sb with 30k pdef...I mean, what the hell? CN has to have the same issues. There gotta be some full r9 sins there. The difference in def and damage is negligible at best. Non-Attack Level sins can Kill cap def BMs with 100 def lvl just in the Cursed Jail Paralyze duration. CN sins with devil stones at least deal 30% more damage than that sin..so yeah.

I get that a majority of sins is aps there..but holy hell..you can't balance a game towards people that are using sub-par gears...you need to balance it towards endgame or find a solution to keep all tiers balanced.

As for the initial Question:

No it is not worth it hardcore-gear-racing anyone cause a majority of the ultra-geared people are nub-players anyways. Having more gears just gets you judged massively on your player-skill. If you have all advantages in the world and lose, then you are a noob and if you win, it's to be expected. Going for max gears in PWI is borderline stupid, tbh.

Take it from me. I don't care what gears anyone has. Same class vs same class, 1v1, same gears, I win (when removing as much chance as possible or you just have a luck fest, gg). That's all I need to know.

keihan007#7641

jsxshadow wrote: »

I also don't get why CN doesnt have that. Yeah, little bit less damage, yeah, little bit tankier...but even a non att-lvl sharded sin in Def-Blessing with 30k base can easily oneshot a 120+ def lvl sb with 30k pdef...I mean, what the hell? CN has to have the same issues. There gotta be some full r9 sins there. The difference in def and damage is negligible at best. Non-Attack Level sins can Kill cap def BMs with 100 def lvl just in the Cursed Jail Paralyze duration. CN sins with devil stones at least deal 30% more damage than that sin..so yeah.

I get that a majority of sins is aps there..but holy hell..you can't balance a game towards people that are using sub-par gears...you need to balance it towards endgame or find a solution to keep all tiers balanced.

Well full R9 on CN, I was told, costs 50k USD. Its unobtainable for vast majority of players and those in between just get wep + ring out of sins. Thats why full R9s are rare, specially on a class which can be effective w/o it. For comparison NP cards were either 200 or 300 bucks/card iirc.

Then there is the whole difference in mindsets, Eastern people take getting rolled by credit card way better than Western people. Like Eastern player might say "Well I guess you spent more money than me so its okey you beat me", Western player might say the same but in sarcastic tone.

The sins, which are geared like ours, are very small minority there so it makes sense to balance the game around what their sins do, not what some super ultra build sins do. Till CN makes R9 relatively cheap, we wont see major nerfs to sins, which would actually work in our version.

iamnotnormal

im a sin... i am weak nub. .. lmao complaining about sin.. play sin and see if you want it. i still dont have puncture wounds.. i prolly should have played a wiz.

jsxshadow

iamnotnormal wrote: »

im a sin... i am weak nub. .. lmao complaining about sin.. play sin and see if you want it. i still dont have puncture wounds.. i prolly should have played a wiz.

I have a sin, my sin can hit my barb (100 def lvl, 65k pdef) for a total of 40k just with the elimination skill. No triple spark, no debuffs, nothing. Just 5 hit charges on an Argent-glyph'ed Elimination. 2 zerkcrits, rest crits.

That is just dumb damage. Astronomically stupid. Especially since my sin isn't even on the same gear level as my barb yet..if that is not broken, welp.

@saxroll I have no understanding to balance a game to a majority when there is the possibility for some to ultra-abuse it. people can play different classes at lower tiers if they didn't like a nerfed version of the assassin class, for all I care. A majority of other publishers fix their games around what a few people do as well and they are very successful with it. You could also argue that a glitch, that only one person knows, is ok, cause the majority can't abuse it. Same as people being able to log 1k+ clients. Just cause only a few can do that..it's still not ok and needs to be fixed. That's just how I feel tho.

keihan007#7641

jsxshadow wrote: »

@saxroll I have no understanding to balance a game to a majority when there is the possibility for some to ultra-abuse it. people can play different classes at lower tiers if they didn't like a nerfed version of the assassin class, for all I care. A majority of other publishers fix their games around what a few people do as well and they are very successful with it. You could also argue that a glitch, that only one person knows, is ok, cause the majority can't abuse it. Same as people being able to log 1k+ clients. Just cause only a few can do that..it's still not ok and needs to be fixed. That's just how I feel tho.

All I am saying, our sins deal vastly more DPH than CN ones do. You can tell from the upgrades they are trying to push sins into DPH gear but aps sins are still very prominent on CN. We can tell DPH sins are absolutely broken but CN really doesnt have much experience with that due how their gears are priced. For all devs know those ultra dph sins they got are broken because they have spent a lot more money than their competition, not because the build is just plain broken.

What I dont understand is how prominent archers are on CN version - Some things I`ve pointed out explain bit of but not all of it. Only reasonable explanation I can think of is that archers just got more gear in general, I didnt see a single non NP/R9 archer near their western arigora npc when I peeked in there but it does feel bit weird to account all of that dominance to one class simply outgearing the others.

wettstyle

Archer's are a big part of chinese history, military lore ect... could account for the higher use of Archer's there Kinda like Ninja's are a big part of Japan's lore.

hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 new expansion is coming, yay (not)! Will there be any hope for us non sins in the future?

Please login and look at 3v3 rankings, this is getting ridiculous. The number 2 squad only has 2 players with gear in it lol (only the sin counts). And the rest are all just nuema portal sins.

Kaly we count on you to keep us informed and help the community, this is currently the largest flaw and deterrence affecting all players in the game at this time. Please help.

hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 please look at arena rankings now that the season is finished. You will see all sins... The top squad for the season overall has 1 OP sin, 1 useless seeker and 3 gearless alts. The sin is killing people 1v3 at ease.

Toons of the same gear as this sin mentioned above, can't even kill the average endgame sins, let alone any 3 endgame toons 1v3.

3v3 arena came down to overall, who has the best geared sin in squad. No one else even mattered.

If this isn't a wakeup call for a massive nerf on sins, i dont know what is. It's a slap in the face to everyone playing this game. We get the message loud and clear, make a sin or don't bother trying.

jacobsrevenge

did u knw how much he spent on his OP LEVEL 9999 sin? if u talking about genesesia he has 2x 5th cast g17 dags def and offense + np set 2nd rebirt + full devil sets + lots of CoM and Apex + g17 cape ring + lots of star chart that u woudnt imagine and oh hes making another g17 dags. if u cant beat a single decent sin. something is wrong with your gamesplay tho. js

zhell#8586

But no one in this game is as geared as that sin. None. Full rb2 NP set with 2 maxed out star charts + several g17r3 weps with 1 g17r5 wep. im pretty sure a lot of classes can also do his feat, if they actually invested that amount of money into this GAME. Now on top of that, he isn't undefeatable, and he's actually lost quite a few times too. And i've not seen any team with 3 characters that are of equivalent gear to genesesia, his gear gap is insanely huge so in reality, he just picks of the 'weakest' which might be full serenity chars or josds clerics / supports with ease because that's simply how huge of a gear gap it is, and then reduce the fight to practically a 2v2 and then ultimately a 2v1. Also, his seeker isn't 'useless' it buys him time and also helps him nuke with sac slash combo or finish players who use expel. If it really and truly is a 1vs3 and he didnt play with the seeker, then he'd lose far more often. Please don't use the ultimately geared sin as a one off representative for the whole class being broken, in top 3v3 team, you don't see any mediocre geared sin, because that's simply how high the gear requirements are. If you don't do damage as a, you're not needed in a team. A db has better survival and cc than a sin by far.

hiitsmeguys

Top 5 teams in arena all have one overpowered sin that carried them. I see wiz and archers, seekers and psys with similar gear to top sin in arena playing with full team along with other NP toons on same team, why they not even in ranking? Gear can make imbalance sure, but this is class imbalance 100%.

bagles2

at current 137 def lvls, 2235 spirit, around 62k phys def, 36k hp(i am seek) lesser geared sins can still 1 shot me. that is just ridiculous. i haven't charged any cash in about 2 years thanks to this unbalanced trash. got plenty of disposable income. this game could shut down today and i wouldn't really care. all my friends have quit, i just log and do a few dailies then afk or log out

@kalyst unbalanced classes is probably the highest priority issue in the game right now. not events. not content updates. when talking to CN devs, sin/db nerfs should be the first thing you should be bringing up

dblazen1

As long as china does not have these problems, you can ask for nerfs all you like, but they're not going to do it if they don't have the issues.
The blame partially lies within the fact that PWI had/has a massive power creep, and the fact that obtaining top gear is so much easier than in China, because cashshop.

madonna89

no point in gearing up, when a single class, can pretty much oneshot 1/3 of the classes by definition (AA) and most other classes with just one or two crits.

At this point, its either : join the fcked up imbalance and roll a sin7db or quit , or be ok with beeing **** oneshot, in a toon, that u can have spend 10k usd on .... doesnt make a difference....

and pwi is simply ignoring the issue ., throwing more stupid charge rewards in our faces and calls it a day

hoshichan

i still think something is wrong with assassins in cross-server environments.
be it a damage h4ck, a glitch that ignores defense charms in ulti or just the game not handling a certain amount of physical damage correctly (maybe asterelle can help with this one), but the damage i receive on cross servers does not match the damage i receive from sins on normal server.

yayoblow#4632

if they dont nerf the very overpowered sins then at least add new skills that balance the other classes.i understand that a assassin by definition is suppose to be good at killing targets, but the target in question has no chance whatsoever. for exsample give the oldest class (and personal favorite) the blademaster a skill to protect himself against the equally or lower geared sins that hit them for 30k, which is just crazy. it still baffles me how much of these players adopted the sheep like mindset, "because sins are overpowered thats the class im going to play even if it is tons of them on the server already" and just ignore a class that they may find more joy in aside from pvp. if the pvp was the reason they choose a sin then make it so the other classes at least stand a chance. its no reason a full r9 barb with 65k phy def and what im assuming is equal or higher spirit then the sin should be getting one or two shotted by a physical dealing class.Does that mean a bm with 200k phy def using buddhas gaurd will get 2 shotted as well? He might as well just take off his gear and pvp if its like that. All of this is my observation ofcourse.

you always gotta tell that assassin, your class can beat me but you can't

thetruesinsz

so much QQ again. At first place your QQing destroyed sins APS, few months ago QQing nerfed tidal. What is going to be nerfed next?

blazerboy

^ you realize there’s videos on YouTube of assassins 1v1 and mass pvp 1-3 shotting whom outgear them x3 over right? No game you will find has this with Assassins ijs @thetruesinsz also news flash china still uses aps in pk regularly and their sins murder barbs instantly after a easy purge which our sins get aswell after purge and cursed jail/elimination. The problem mainly resides with tidal remove it. Take it completely out the game and sin becomes glass cannon glass high risk high reward and MUST coordinate to be an effective class like idk everyone else? Sins can come poke few times force genie pots ulti then finish you and escape in a group of 10 atking them.. That’s not opportunist class that’s I do w/e I want not bug off ppl lol. Sins in other mmos have damage and only evasion not cc evasion invulnerability. If you can easily stop a sins onslaught like every other class then it wouldn’t be so bad. But if a sin sees a equal geared cleric without genie and pots it’s 100% ganna die while sin tidal up. You may think this is true for anyone but it’s not you can easily stop any other class but with the damage and cc evasion sins have it’s easy. The damage isn’t the main issue though it’s the escape and skill utility that backing it that sins have. The fact sins damage aren’t nerfed by ALEAST half during ulti which is full damage full escape baffles me to this day even tbh, no game gives you an ability like this for sins except Pwi xD.

Pwi sins are like a vanguard/ regular mmo Assassin hybrid if you ask me.

The fact is sin have too many get out of jail free cards with all that damage it makes them the perfect class if you have a huge wallet and don’t wanna adhere to any hinderances other classes hve otherwise it wouldn’t be the most popular class hands down.

jsxshadow

@blazerboy Yap, people are still being delusional. That's basically it.

I've had enough tho. Since the sin isn't a class that is getting loads of 1v1 anyways: I will gear up my sin for real. Once that is done I will obliterate any player in the entire game, might it be 3v3, mass-PvP or 1v1 and show people how broken that class trully is. They accuse me of abusing the "gear disadvantage"-card? They will soon (at least 6 months tho to be considered endgame + purge weap ofc) see how true that statement was. I will do whatever it takes to get the assassin class nerfed to decent levels.

dblazen1

jsxshadow wrote: »

@blazerboy Yap, people are still being delusional. That's basically it.

I've had enough tho. Since the sin isn't a class that is getting loads of 1v1 anyways: I will gear up my sin for real. Once that is done I will obliterate any player in the entire game, might it be 3v3, mass-PvP or 1v1 and show people how broken that class trully is. They accuse me of abusing the "gear disadvantage"-card? They will soon (at least 6 months tho to be considered endgame + purge weap ofc) see how true that statement was. I will do whatever it takes to get the assassin class nerfed to decent levels.

You might want to brush up your chinese then, because as long as these issues do not exist for them, good luck getting CN to do anything.
They're not going to create a complete separate branch for development for this version.
If they would do that, you can either say goodbye to any future updates, or you can expect future updates to revert specific changes made for this version