Too many coins on servers

hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 Every so often I need to make a serious post and bring everyone back to reality. The game is being destroyed once again like it was back in 2014-2015 when legal botting was introduced with no restrictions. China took a lot of steps to neutralize the bots and implemented a number of major coin sinks, including homestead, arena, etc in order to control the amount of coins on each server. And it actually worked! Gold was actually able to be purchased through the AH and people were no longer selling gold for 6-7m in world chat. The prices of event items dropped significantly, more players were able to gear up, and catch up than ever before.

Jump ahead to 2017, a number of very poor pricing decisions and lack of economic outlook and research of new items has put us back in the same place we once were. The number of coins on every server has drastically increased due to non stop pack sales at way too cheap of a price. GM's need to realize that any time an item that can introduce new coins into servers is released at a cheap price it's going to have a major effect on the game. The best example is fortune keys, along with dumping lucky coins and tokens of best luck into the server they also give a number of items that can be traded directly for 6-40, 10m notes. Every fortune key sale, 100s of billions of coins are added to each server and we have no coin sinks to control such a massive inflow.

Please control the sales. Do some research on the new items before putting them on sale. If an item will cause a massive change in the games economy, consider not putting it on sale, or at the very least, not so cheap.

beast21g

yeah, remember when GMs said that g17 items will be never be in packs or in boutique? Guess what!!!!!!!

jadasia

PWI fixed this issue by raising the limit of coins we can carry and trade to 1 bil up from 200 mil.

but think about it. with pack and key sales not only is more coin being introduced into the server but so are all those pack items and key items. You see the prices of those plummet the more saturated the server becomes with them.

hiitsmeguys

PWI could let us carry 100bil coins, not sure how that would help anything

danilo#7359

The focus they need asap is on compensation for these bugs is happening right now, and for unused points for who charge their accounts, and make all instance working again.
We can talk about everything is not perfect in the game, but if they dont wanna fix, what can we do ?

splendideyes

hiitsmeguys wrote: »

PWI could let us carry 100bil coins, not sure how that would help anything

i would give me 10 free inventory slots-

pdq314

I love how after all these years there are still people who are completely convinced they have the answer to PWI's economy, and feel obligated to explain it all to us, as if none of us have even considered their brilliant idea and are fools for not jumping on it right away.

Seriously.

shade13

pdq314 wrote: »

I love how after all these years there are still people who are completely convinced they have the answer to PWI's economy, and feel obligated to explain it all to us, as if none of us have even considered their brilliant idea and are fools for not jumping on it right away.

Seriously.

Not everyone reads forum before sharing their brilliant ideas, perhaps

hiitsmeguys wrote: »

Please control the sales. Do some research on the new items before putting them on sale. If an item will cause a massive change in the games economy, consider not putting it on sale, or at the very least, not so cheap.

It's kinda late. Ppl attuned to the current state of affairs. GMs chose the policy of no interference and let the economy evolve naturally into what we have now with the help of crazy sales. Even though many seriously understand it could be differently and better if we had economy artificially controlled, when it comes to reducing coins amount per server, huge wave of QQ comes as well.
Remmoving good sales - hysteria (like ending Nuema portal sales)
Reducing means to get coins - hysteria. Because each individual cares about his own pocket rather that the server economy in general, every attempt to take something away will be taken hostilely. Even if you prove its reasonability 345938459 times.
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kalystconquerer#0876

@beast21g I think if I remember correctly, I said they were blocking me on putting the materials DIRECTLY on sale in the boutique (anything past Profaned Wood at least - and they see the lower materials as "too small" to be worth selling direct. They do pop up in promos though!). And of course, I try to make the top grade items available elsewhere (Re : TW/DC Rewards, Contests, Events etc.)

@danilo#7359 We have actually refund those points to users so they have them now! I believe both instances (?) have been rectified.

General - The purpose of the Foils, as far as I can tell, is to recycle drops people get from packs so that they at least get something out of it. The pop up shop did pull some coin out, but not nearly fast enough.

Homestead was introduced as a coin sink, but either people aren't using it or have maxed themselves out to the point where even if they spent coin to keep cleanliness, it doesn't dent their income. We could try to decrease the droprates on the Foils, but that would probably make people unhappy too. If we add another coin sink, then we might get complaints that it's another upkeep cost to add to the daily grind.

For Fortune Keys specifically - I've been watching the economies on different servers since the very first sale post Neverfall to see how the economy shifts and I'll continue to watch it and accumulate data.

blazerboy

It's either it's too hard to make coins (so let's add coins to server) then it's OMG TOO MANY COIN SINKS TOO LITTLE COIN. Lol this cycle never ceases to amaze me

beast21g

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

@beast21g I think if I remember correctly, I said they were blocking me on putting the materials DIRECTLY on sale in the boutique (anything past Profaned Wood at least - and they see the lower materials as "too small" to be worth selling direct. They do pop up in promos though!). And of course, I try to make the top grade items available elsewhere (Re : TW/DC Rewards, Contests, Events etc.)

@danilo#7359 We have actually refund those points to users so they have them now! I believe both instances (?) have been rectified.

General - The purpose of the Foils, as far as I can tell, is to recycle drops people get from packs so that they at least get something out of it. The pop up shop did pull some coin out, but not nearly fast enough.

Homestead was introduced as a coin sink, but either people aren't using it or have maxed themselves out to the point where even if they spent coin to keep cleanliness, it doesn't dent their income. We could try to decrease the droprates on the Foils, but that would probably make people unhappy too. If we add another coin sink, then we might get complaints that it's another upkeep cost to add to the daily grind.

For Fortune Keys specifically - I've been watching the economies on different servers since the very first sale post Neverfall to see how the economy shifts and I'll continue to watch it and accumulate data.

Ok, TW/DC reward and broken contest like TNF are something that doesnt help lower gears to get them.
TW has been destroyed after DC appeared. Some guilds merged or people moved to do the DC. Result is 75% wine tws.
DC you have no chance if you dont have at least 50 people for the event or at least 30 people with a couple NP and some high refines toons with you.
Also dont forget that making event in a EU server with EU time then yes people from US they cant go and do them.

As far the g17 items yes if i recall better now a GM said that wont be directly in the boutique (i just cant remember if it was you or someone else) but we knew that at some point they will be as pack reward.

shimarra

You can't fix this economy simply because PWI relies heavily on pack sales. You can stop every mob dropping coin in the game and the only people you are going to hurt are the poor ones. It's a coin flow problem. The rich people in the game with all the coins also have all the items for sale (for the most part, people do get lucky here and there on packs). It used to be lower geared people could farm coins from grinding then buy form the rich players, that's gone.

Raising coin in bag was STUPID. PWI screwed that up. It allowed rich people to put in to buy just under 250 gold at once. And gold stacks HIGH in ah now and times out. So you have to be really strategic on when you put in to buy gold. 10 people putting in to buy max gold will time out the next people trying to buy. Where before you could buy 49 gold at a time, gave more people opportunity to put in to buy gold without the increased chances o timing out and losing 2% of cost.

tolots

So far the treasure chests seem to eat up most of the gold foil recipie items they spit out. Also, other sales next to keys seem meaningless at the moment since they fetch the biggest gold/coin ratio and no one is willing to buy and sell other items like MOG's for prices people used to buy.

If 7m coins per gold become the norm on DG the QQ from farmers will be massive and while i dont mind 7m per gold im afraid its only a matter of time all item prices adjust on the new exchange ratio and people relaying on farming their coins for gold will be shafted.

Apart from the 2 100% Cardset chests some tome related stuff and charms/lucky coins the only real thing this keys produce is coins. I love the idea to use items up to create something else because DG was saturated on some drops before the foil items was introduced and prices raked up after their introducion. But this system needs more fine tuning, the amount of coins gained by this is too high @18 Gold per 100 Keys. Its like you can print infinite amount of coins as long you just open enough of those chests and can obtain gold under a certain treshhold. On other packs it was possible to open tens of thousand and end up with a huge loss. With keys @18gold per 100 thats impossible if you open a big enough batch of chests. Compared to other lucky packs i opend were i got huge kicks in the balls for simillar spend gold i dont see why i would ever touch another pack.

I used thousands of those keys and i not even once came out negative after sales.

jsxshadow

@kalystconquerer#0876 There is no way to fix the economy cept for GMs to start selling gold in the AH. Set a weekly maximum of 10.000 Gold and it should be fine.

People are already BUYING Gold in WC for 7m+. That is insane. Buying gold via AH is absolutely impossible unless you are lucky. Sure, it's not PWE's fault first hand. It's the damn greed of those damned greedy people.

I can see no better solution but to provide Gold to the AH from PWE's side.

There is another fix that could help to improve the wellbeing of the economy. Limit the maximum Gold Purchases an IP can make via AH per week. Set it to max 500 Gold and we will have alot less trouble. That is still way more than we could buy back in the day with 200m coin limit on average. However, this would need some programming and welp...we all know how long this could take.

OR sell Keys for 36 gold/100 pcs, no less and 100 pcs pack prices should be minimum 40 Gold. This will prevent gold to ever exceed 4m again. Easy peasy. Let's be honest. Packs and gamble items are completely useless and no one would really have a reason to cry if they would vanish all together. Yeah, they are the main source of income for PWE, no doubt to that, but making them more expensive won't hurt your income. It will just help the economy. Do you think the majority of people buying gold for 7m+ are P2P-Gamers? No, a majority of them are F2P.

OR! An even better fix, make Keys/Packs untrade-able. Literally the best solution. You wanna gamble? You gotta cash.

If you apply any of these suggestions it will already help alot. If you would apply all of them..anyone could play this game decently again.

blazerboy

^ half of these would make a lot less ppl cash shop all together keys being so cheap hurt the economy but generated hundreds of real cash to PWI tbh the foils can go imo

kalystconquerer#0876

@jsxshadow So you're asking us to stand in and directly manipulate the soft to hard currency exchange? This would be disruptive for a number of reasons, and not all in a good way. "I'm setting this price, and you can't compete with me, because I can print this money endlessly". How does even the most heavy CSers and merchanters compete, if the company can set gold prices to whatever they feel like and SELL it for whatever they feel like, forcing everyone's hands?

Its not so much the Keys that's the problem, it's what's available in the system currently that is the issue. We could explore looking into seeing if we can change the droprate on the foils or remove the items altogether. But that would require us to wait for devs to give us something to do that. I could manually go in and drain coin from the servers...but the games own coin sinks should be handling this.

Due to some of the exchanges they have started implementing for Lucky Coins though...I will need to look at these things again.

flightsoldier

LOL

shimarra

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

@jsxshadow So you're asking us to stand in and directly manipulate the soft to hard currency exchange? This would be disruptive for a number of reasons, and not all in a good way. "I'm setting this price, and you can't compete with me, because I can print this money endlessly". How does even the most heavy CSers and merchanters compete, if the company can set gold prices to whatever they feel like and SELL it for whatever they feel like, forcing everyone's hands?

Its not so much the Keys that's the problem, it's what's available in the system currently that is the issue. We could explore looking into seeing if we can change the droprate on the foils or remove the items altogether. But that would require us to wait for devs to give us something to do that. I could manually go in and drain coin from the servers...but the games own coin sinks should be handling this.

Due to some of the exchanges they have started implementing for Lucky Coins though...I will need to look at these things again.

LMFAO you already do that on cash shop item prices. If you don't think gold price causes coin prices then I don't know what to say. I think you don't understand what you just said. Any way.... company selling gold goes against their cash making strategy anyway. No serious player thinks your should do this, or would do this. No need for nonsense excuses.


Keys are the problem. When a hot ticket item shows up you can just keep throwing keys at it. Everyone wants them. You can make it so less people want them, but that hurts the companies bottom line too. You didn't have to raise the amount of coins a player could have in bag. That created a bottleneck for gold buyers in AH.

blazerboy

Inb4 Kaly listens to ppl here and ppl refuse to drop their prices on items and then ppl QQ items cost too much not enough coins this cycle never ends..

I feel like the main ppl who complain about buying gold in AH are the ones upset they can't get dragon orbs +11-12 easily and free. News flash, not everything endgame should be free and easy to get there's already ppl who Tisha half their +12 using free +11 orbs from charge/spend promos zzzzzz

xcybershot

Stop to cs and pwi will learn but ppl cant never get enough like in rl. Rich ppl get richer poor ppl stay poor

baseaddress

Just remove AH expiration time. 3 days is impossible time for buying gold now.

beast21g

lets see
11 gold cost 9.99 Euros
That means 1.1 euro for 1 gold around
so 4m coins costs 1.1 euro

Now i dont wonder why people buying coins from paypal with 0.12 euro per milion.
Thats for 4m the price of 1 gold like 50 cents. Half price from PWE sells it.
These people will buy a large amount of coins and then they will try to buy gold from AH for the charge rewards.

xcybershot

Or just make with keys from 250g to like 400g or more key must get higher price in boutique or we dont get normal prices back


And the blackmarket thing cant pwi stop cuz u never know is it a gift to ppl or not

scruncy

@kalystconquerer#0876

You have to see PWI as a country and PWE is the government for this country.
It is your duty to regulate and set the conditions for the economy for this country. You cant just let the economy run wild.
Where this leads we have seen in 2007 on the financial market.

Now,while the keys might not be the problem, the price you are selling them is. Lately some of your sales totaly hurting the econamy. Keys for 18 gold and packs for 25gold are just idiotic. You might see a spike of charging but in the long run you are just hurting yourself. You have to understand that a high gold price is not in your interest and will reduce charging in general.
The majority that is charging and then selling gold ,if they are in need of coins to buy something, have to charge way less in order to buy that item. And this is why you try to make it up with this stupid sales. And then to have items that (foils) that inject huge amounts of coins into the economy,who's glorius idea was that............?

And I have said this in another threat already, this game has no real coin sinks that remove CONTINUOUSLY coins from the game.
If you want this then you need to create something that people really want and is only available with coins.
And I am not talking about stupid mounts, flyers or fashion nobody cares about.
Sell DoD or starchart items or something like this. Another idea would be a opening fee for packs. Like each pack cost 100k opening fee. This way coin would be drained continuously.

Here are my suggestions:

- reverse the amout of coins you can instert into the AH for buying gold
- remove the expiration time for buying/selling gold completely
- stop having pack sales to a to low price
- remove coin giving items form packs/keys
- make packs/keys untradable
- introduce a pack/key opening coin fee
- sell desired items directly for coin ( you did that with your *event*, but thats not even close to enough. you should sell like 10 CoM, 100dod, 100 12* orbs to actually have a impact )
- create a *selling gold in AH* promo to reduce wc gold selling

jsxshadow

scruncy wrote: »

Here are my suggestions:

- reverse the amout of coins you can instert into the AH for buying gold
- remove the expiration time for buying/selling gold completely
- stop having pack sales to a to low price
- remove coin giving items form packs/keys
- make packs/keys untradable
- introduce a pack/key opening coin fee
- sell desired items directly for coin ( you did that with your *event*, but thats not even close to enough. you should sell like 10 CoM, 100dod, 100 12* orbs to actually have a impact )
- create a *selling gold in AH* promo to reduce wc gold selling

@kalystconquerer#0876 ^This: However, I don't see a reason why certain Items like High-Level Dragon Orbs/CoM/SoT/WoA/etc...cannot be put into the sale's list of an NPC.

CoM for 2.5b, SoT for 1.5b, WoA for 0.5b, 10* for 120m, 11* for 400m and 12* for 700m. This is exactly what these items are worth if you take into account the hardcoded gold-coin value which is still 4m each. You could even make them a bit more expensive.

Like this, people would have an opportunity to buy those items without sales or waiting for someone to sell them and loads of coins would vanish from the server. If more coins vanish they will become more valuable thus gold price will go down thus people will eventually wait and charge for sales to get the items cheaper compared to buying them with coins alone.

There are many ways with which PWE could make the economy ALOT better. Don't even need to change the price of keys and packs. Just implement an NPC selling this stuff for coins and make Packs/Keys untradeable/char- & accountbound. Problems solved. If people wanna buy this stuff they gotta use AH or Charge. No more selling gold in worldchat cause that is literally cancer with no boundaries.

As for the foil items...you guys wanna tell me that people are still lucky enough to encounter them all the time? The chance isnt even that high. HOW can some people be that lucky? Even if one shows up...you still need to be lucky enough to get it. 10% chance if it's 1 item and if you need 7 tries then you've already spent so many keys that it isn't worth it anymore. I can't believe that those items are the issue or the average mass of PWI players is just stupid lucky. On DA we are talking 1.3m+ per key...how... smh.

scruncy

Here is one item you could sell in a npc for coin:

Dull zenit sculls for like 250m

Everybody would win
- its a higly desired item by the people who got a lot of coin
- its not a boutique item, so it wont hurt your sales
- people need a big amount of it -> lots of coins get removed from the servers
- people would start charge again to sell gold in AH -> gold price will be lowered->people need to charge even more
- people would buy more profaned wood from boutique
- lower G17 mats would be high in demand -> farmers are happy

This would be a win/win situation for everybody.
Now dont tell me China doesnt want us to rush through content bla bla. If you need to farm for 5 years a hideous instance to get somewhere, thats not content, thats just stupid.

mars19

Normal AH have 1b limit too, they can just throw sometimes 10-50 items same time with 10m starting price for 24h bidding there, like 10/11/12 orbs,Matchless Wings,WoA,Deity/Josd,Dull Zenit Scull. Players greedy wouldn't let someone get any of this items cheap, also It wont require any NPC,setting price and waiting year till Chinese maybe make it.

wettstyle

Or you could get rid of Coin's and purge the system lol, Heck most items have dropped to 1 coin anyhow's Let's just go Silver and Gold till the finish line....a lil sarcastic(Maybe).

beast21g

wettstyle wrote: »

Or you could get rid of Coin's and purge the system lol, Heck most items have dropped to 1 coin anyhow's Let's just go Silver and Gold till the finish line....a lil sarcastic(Maybe).

thats a nice idea nerf big notes with a price of 1 coin