Skills back to the basics

blazerboy

Not trying to do a Necro thread thing or bring out utter nonsense but is anyone else hearing about some rumor sometime between nov and dec PWCN supposed to update skills in a attempt to balance thier classes? (Because PrimaI skills were such a success equally lol) Ionly ask because of the following:

1) For some reason so many on DawnsGlory have convinced themselves this is legit this time
2)GMs have no real power year but Chinese Devs must see variety in this game is truely scares
3)Its not even fun to watch 2008 classes forced to play full vit build or meerly supportive rolls because no other use for them seems apparent. I.E Venos,Seekers, Rarely even see well geared mystics, Archers, wizards

chary

Pure vit build is the best veno build tho and has been for awhile. What classes even go pure vit besides veno/barb/some BMs anyway though.

limonazza

what PWI should work on should be a direct link to wanmei devs to make western playerbase feedback reach them

older classes have such obsolete skillsets its ridicolous

btw there is no skill adjustment in china yet, so expect no skill changes for the next year or 2​​

kittyempressa

chary wrote: »

Pure vit build is the best veno build tho and has been for awhile. What classes even go pure vit besides veno/barb/some BMs anyway though.

Isn't that kind of a waste? For ex. 250 vit would give a veno 3k HP and some p.def/m.res. while putting that same amount in str. for HA-gears gives more HP (thanks to better refine bonuses), quite extreme defences and also an useful base phys. attack. That's pretty much the reason why Kitty doesn't have a vit. built veno.

Kitty thinks vit. build would be somewhat viable for a seeker that concentrates on support debuffing in PVP. But since Kitty considers seekers as more of a damage class, she finds str. seeker the preferable way to go.​​

sylenthunder

chary wrote: »

Pure vit build is the best veno build tho and has been for awhile. What classes even go pure vit besides veno/barb/some BMs anyway though.

You my friend, are smoking crack. a Pure VIT Veno would be more useless than HA. Or nearly so. HA is doable, but you're going to spend a majority of your time in fox form and your skill damage is severely gimped. Pure VIT would gimp you even more.

blazerboy wrote: »

Not trying to do a Necro thread thing or bring out utter nonsense but is anyone else hearing about some rumor sometime between nov and dec PWCN supposed to update skills in a attempt to balance thier classes? (Because PrimaI skills were such a success equally lol) Ionly ask because of the following:

1) For some reason so many on DawnsGlory have convinced themselves this is legit this time
2)GMs have no real power year but Chinese Devs must see variety in this game is truely scares
3)Its not even fun to watch 2008 classes forced to play full vit build or meerly supportive rolls because no other use for them seems apparent. I.E Venos,Seekers, Rarely even see well geared mystics, Archers, wizards

Back in November 2013, when the original Developers of the game were brought back onboard, it was stated that they were going to upgrade the game's core engine to Angelica III, and re-texture the original classes to update their looks. There was also discussion of adding mo-cap animations to a lot of things, and re-texturing the original map zones.
So far, they've re-textured some NPC's.

1. People smoke crack and spread rumors all the time. Believe it when you see it in an official posting. (Although, in the case of the aforementioned development, take even that with a grain of salt.)
2. I'm not even sure what you're saying there. PWE has very little control over the game development though.
3. 2008 classes are not forced to play full VIT. That's not even a viable build except in the cases of the seeker or the barb. (Seeker not being a 2008 class technically, although it did exist at that time in the most basic form) A pure STR Seeker can deal quite a lot of damage and is reasonable effective in squads. The real issue is that no one sees anything as effective except Sin's, a BM's HF skill, and the two new classes. Oh, and a cleric if they aren't R999+10.​​

blazerboy

-Vit build seekers are used aswell weather it be vit stoned or actually stating vit which in all honesty both are a waste of time. When you stat that way sure you get a considerable amount of hp but vit doesn't give HA classes almost any m.def once purged they insta drop w.o being a viable DD and if you are vit stoned w.o jsod you can't even support your squad by debuffing effecticely.

-Veno in my oppinion has it the worse though I mean yes veno is primarily a support class and hell a vit build veno with full garnet gems or a vit stone + vit build veno is extremely hard to pin down except for db ofc but to spend alot of money/time on endgaming a character via gear refines ect to serve the purpose of either purge,amp, max hp reduction and simply run that seems very lackluster and not worth it in terms of fun. Veno full jsod/pure mag idk about anyone else for me spells a bad day to me but because of current atk skills and speed its not worth it for them only thing viable is 0 p.def which im told rarely procs and its only for demons.

-In the case of bms a vit build bm is nicely done simply because of marrow but in all honesty a full jsod str bm completely is another beast because even in self buffs that thing merely by the fact marrows is on % is a complete nightmare in terms of damage, CC, tankiness but because of thier outdated skill except primal drakes bash alot still prefer support vit builds

I just think updating the classes more will make people feel more confident in thier ability in terms of support and raw firepower instead of just support and turning to newer classes to fill the void. I dont mind playing support but honestly who puts all that time or money just to be able to do one thing rather then well rounded

chary

The entire purpose behind pure vit build is to never die in pvp and to just be an annoying pos.

sylenthunder said:

chary wrote: »

Pure vit build is the best veno build tho and has been for awhile. What classes even go pure vit besides veno/barb/some BMs anyway though.

You my friend, are smoking crack. a Pure VIT Veno would be more useless than HA. Or nearly so. HA is doable, but you're going to spend a majority of your time in fox form and your skill damage is severely gimped. Pure VIT would gimp you even more.


You don't pvp so you wouldn't know, but a good pure vit veno will rarely die in mass pvp unless focused to hell and back with constant paralyze. Your damage doesn't matter on veno and you'll be demon anyway so you just ironwood people, hope for 0 def, and antimony them/tell your squad's phys DDs to aa off of you and people die.

blazerboy

Thats a good point you rarely die unless focused to hell but yeah i dont main a veno so I wouldnt know if anyone found this fun by the way you described @chary really doesnt seem like much fun which explains why alot of venos dont come pvp when you ask them. Alot of time its like they are sacrificial lambs. While I do agree this build is practical in group pvp scenario it does make me feel like they are ina closed role.
- I wonder how full jsod venos pair up compared to vit. Is it enough defense to surpass vit build not sure considering 90% of endgame venos on dawnsglory is vit stone

chary

You don't shard vit stones. You shard josd. There is 0 reason to go vit stones.

blazerboy

Tell that to the majority of venos and bms. Not sure why though. You can go full dod then slowly upgrade more expensive but nobody telling you to do it over night I certainly couldnt took me like 2 months

keihan007#7641

The only reason ppl go vit stones is the price of it.

As far as vit venos go, demon ironwood + purge is pretty amazing when you cant easily drop the veno and move on. Add on top the fact how tanky those things are in fox in the first place, its not fun to fight them.

BMs work well as vit builds too, seen couple of them and while they dont really deal damage, they will do what BMs do best, CC the **** out of you. Add marrows on top of the 50k+ hp pool and you need some serious focus to drop them.

Barbs I dont like as vit build, they can be ignored too easily if their damage is non-existent.

shade13

Hello, I'm a pure magic full josd veno
I see no point in pure vit build if you are endgame geared.
Pure vit is cool when you cannot survive vs even team otherwise.
Pure vit is cool if you don't want to think what damage is.
Pure vit venos die pretty well as well (or runs away at best). It mostly depends on your team. If you are badly outnumbered and outskilled, you won't live. Even full vit barbs die, what do you expect from a veno, even full vit?
Thanks for attention

p.s. Full mag veno doesn't always 1shot with 0 def combo.​​

blazerboy

@shade13 ah thanks for the incite but when I made my comment earlier I meant specifically DawnGlory venos I think Ive seen 2 or 3 who legit are active players otherwise full jsod venos arent really present not sure if any are pure mag though. Honestly though how tanky are you in terms of being ganked i will see some vit stone/vit build veno tank 2 or 3 diety sins and get away with it provided they arent purged

sylenthunder

blazerboy wrote: »

@shade13 ah thanks for the incite but when I made my comment earlier I meant specifically DawnGlory venos I think Ive seen 2 or 3 who legit are active players otherwise full jsod venos arent really present not sure if any are pure mag though. Honestly though how tanky are you in terms of being ganked i will see some vit stone/vit build veno tank 2 or 3 diety sins and get away with it provided they arent purged

But what is the rest of the game like for a full VIT veno? I bet it's pretty freaking boring since you can't adequately DD or provide ample support for your pets. There's a lot more to the game than being tanky-ish.​​

shade13

blazerboy wrote: »

@shade13 ah thanks for the incite but when I made my comment earlier I meant specifically DawnGlory venos I think Ive seen 2 or 3 who legit are active players otherwise full jsod venos arent really present not sure if any are pure mag though. Honestly though how tanky are you in terms of being ganked i will see some vit stone/vit build veno tank 2 or 3 diety sins and get away with it provided they arent purged

It all depends on luck. Sometimes I tank crowds and kite and live like a boss and sometimes I get couple of zercrits into half HP purged and extreme poisoned and bye It's same for any player. Gear > build.

But what is the rest of the game like for a full VIT veno? I bet it's pretty freaking boring since you can't adequately DD or provide ample support for your pets. There's a lot more to the game than being tanky-ish.

Speaking of pets, they are better if a veno is vit. Because they inherit your own vit points, but they don't inherit your magic points. Sadly. Though it's not like pets nowadays are needed for damage they cannot provide anymore (:​​

limonazza

sylenthunder wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

@shade13 ah thanks for the incite but when I made my comment earlier I meant specifically DawnGlory venos I think Ive seen 2 or 3 who legit are active players otherwise full jsod venos arent really present not sure if any are pure mag though. Honestly though how tanky are you in terms of being ganked i will see some vit stone/vit build veno tank 2 or 3 diety sins and get away with it provided they arent purged

But what is the rest of the game like for a full VIT veno? I bet it's pretty freaking boring since you can't adequately DD or provide ample support for your pets. There's a lot more to the game than being tanky-ish.

do you know that veno is getting 20% more hp from vitality respect any other arcane class and just a little less respect LA classes? (12 hp per vit, arcane classes 10, LA 13, HA 15)

vit venos are god

20k base damage are enough to oneshot equal geared full buffed people with ironwood antinomy combo

and you as usual have poor to no knowledge of the game​​

shade13

limonazza wrote: »

20k base damage are enough to oneshot equal geared full buffed people with ironwood antinomy combo

Seems like you got 1shot by a fox once and now you are scared of any veno
Maybe it's enough if target has hp shards, but arcane antinomy damage depends on mana. And full vit fox has about 7-8k mana. Trust me, it doesn't 1shot anything decent with def charm and many heavy classes even without.
​​

keihan007#7641

shade13 said:

limonazza wrote: »

20k base damage are enough to oneshot equal geared full buffed people with ironwood antinomy combo

Seems like you got 1shot by a fox once and now you are scared of any veno

Maybe it's enough if target has hp shards, but arcane antinomy damage depends on mana. And full vit fox has about 7-8k mana. Trust me, it doesn't 1shot anything decent with def charm and many heavy classes even without.

​​

Generally, in group PvP be it open world PK or TW/NW, veno isnt actually landing killing blow, its only enabling others. Hence I dont see much point in arguing if veno can or cant 1shot people. And thats really the beuty of vit veno, you dont need damage, your debuffs are more important than slight personal damage increase. Point is to be so tanky people dont even want to hit you and veno has skill set to support this kind of build. I am not saying its the most interesting build to play but its very effective for whats wanted from the class.

shade13

saxroll wrote: »

And thats really the beuty of vit veno, you dont need damage, your debuffs are more important than slight personal damage increase. Point is to be so tanky people dont even want to hit you and veno has skill set to support this kind of build. I am not saying its the most interesting build to play but its very effective for whats wanted from the class.

It's what I said in the very beginning: if you are ok with the fact you deal no damage.
But you should remember that it includes:
You are dependant on others. Better don't go quest/hunt alone, if you encounter enemy you would like to kill, you won't be able to do it unless it undergeared by far. Purge and run or call help.
If your squad have only support players, you lose. No matter how amazing purge is, it alone doesn't kill, and if you deal 3 digit damage and have no one else in squad to deal more, run or call help.
You invest same money into gear and even more (pets), because armour costs same for all classes, but they kill and you don't.
Still like it? Then vit build is yours (:

​​

cococya

As a non-pvp veno, vit build is ****.
Tried it, was nice, I actually really liked it, but the gains in hp compared to what full magic later gave me later on was not worth it by any means. After I switched, the hp I had from my natural tankyness and refines was more than enough, and the attack improvements were extremely high. ​​

keihan007#7641

shade13 said:

saxroll wrote: »

And thats really the beuty of vit veno, you dont need damage, your debuffs are more important than slight personal damage increase. Point is to be so tanky people dont even want to hit you and veno has skill set to support this kind of build. I am not saying its the most interesting build to play but its very effective for whats wanted from the class.

It's what I said in the very beginning: if you are ok with the fact you deal no damage.

But you should remember that it includes:

You are dependant on others. Better don't go quest/hunt alone, if you encounter enemy you would like to kill, you won't be able to do it unless it undergeared by far. Purge and run or call help.

If your squad have only support players, you lose. No matter how amazing purge is, it alone doesn't kill, and if you deal 3 digit damage and have no one else in squad to deal more, run or call help.

You invest same money into gear and even more (pets), because armour costs same for all classes, but they kill and you don't.

Still like it? Then vit build is yours (:



​​

Because there is such shortage of DDs compared to support classes, lol. Its not 1vs1 build, never claimed it was but its really effective for supporting. Either you get tanky cheaper or you get overly tanky if you actually spend the endgame money on it.

Once upon a time I ran around on archer with 7(?) demon venos. We killed PK on that server for good 2h till people formed 2 balanced squads to take us out. It was fairly hilarious way of showing you can never have too much support, granted those venos were mag build and hit hard with their antitomies. Either way, just one or two archers and even 5 support venos will work well together. And you are never gonna have 5 vit build venos in squad just for how limited the uses of said build is and thus the people who will go for it. Doesnt make it worse build for what its intended though.

blazerboy

I think what @shade13 is trying to say is a veno can be full mag and be a bang up support lol but it still sucks for classes like seekers,archers,mystics,wizard to take a more supportive role where they should be considered point blank damage dealers now yes I know wizard is debateable but compared to psychics and stormbringers wiz have the short end of the stick on the full dd based magic DDers. Hell mystics should be able to fill both voids but from what i see they only useful support even then id prefer a cleric

shade13

saxroll wrote: »

And you are never gonna have 5 vit build venos in squad just for how limited the uses of said build is and thus the people who will go for it. Doesnt make it worse build for what its intended though.

Yup, for now. But imagine if this build becomes popular xD
Anyway it's a matter of personal preferences only. If you have fun surviving a squad hanging on your tail and don't feel the need to solo pk or contribute into win with numbers, it's a fine build.​​

limonazza

shade13 wrote: »

limonazza wrote: »

20k base damage are enough to oneshot equal geared full buffed people with ironwood antinomy combo

Seems like you got 1shot by a fox once and now you are scared of any veno
Maybe it's enough if target has hp shards, but arcane antinomy damage depends on mana. And full vit fox has about 7-8k mana. Trust me, it doesn't 1shot anything decent with def charm and many heavy classes even without.

well i tested it back in time on a retail-like private server, 20k base damage was enough at endgame to 1hit endgame LA kind of HPs non crit, which means all AA will fall and if you crit you take down HAs as well

and well ofc if target has defense charms up he wont get onehit since veno can hardly pop phys def charms,
but how def charms are breaking DPH and lotsa other class mechanics is already explained in few other threads

anyways veno can hardly take over targets 1v1, besides ironwood or lucky ele debuff procs venos absolutely have no kill potential, we are way over the deicide-glitch aps veno + nix bleed period , what i see being pulled on me often is demon venos AAing archers with ironwood procs to make those archers hit me 10ks with autos,
that's veno role atm, shotcallers or "kill enablers"

btw i disagree on antinomy damage calc,
i believe antinomy damage is calc'd as per blade tempest, base damage as phys plus base damage as ele​​

booker27

limonazza said:

btw i disagree on antinomy damage calc
i believe antinomy damage is calc'd as per blade tempest, base damage as phys plus base damage as ele​​

Arcane antinomy is based on 150% of Max MP plus magic attack and wep damage.

@thread
Idk why people insist veno damage is useless. Yeah its not a wiz or anything but i wouldn't call it useless. Many times veno damage helps in killing off an opponent especially in a situation where other team members are busy (stunned, ganked whatever). If the veno was vit dealing shet damage the person would just survive, kite, get their stuff ready, come back and maybe even kill someone off the team. It all comes down to different scenarios and situations and as someone who pvps a lot i can assure you a venos damage has helped a lot on multiple ocassions. Sorry but theres no ideal world where your big dds are available to assist dd at any given time making venos damage pointless.
Besides there's cooldowns and at one point a veno has to either wait or assist dd. The latter is more useful.

Most people ignore all the things a veno has and limit themselves or teach other venos that all they are good for is purge, an amp here and there, some bewitch on occassion and ofc course to go demon and run around trying to proc ironwood doing nothing else (dont get me wrong i love demon). Sorry to say but most people expect that and will counter 0pdef unless they are in a situation they cant (no pots, skills cd, w/e) In the past 3-4 months ive maybe died thrice from 0pdef in pk and maybe 5-6 times in tw + nw at best (granted i skip some nws, lazy). Many times i just countered that 0pdef or a charm did. I've died more to a d.nova(+random debuff like myriad or EP or whatever) than ironwood. Ofc unless there are loots of demons present that proc it left and right.
Not saying vit build sucks but people overglorify that build when it has a very specific use/role and is definitely not the best veno build as it has plenty of drawbacks. There's not best build, just whatever suits people.

limonazza

booker27 wrote: »

btw i disagree on antinomy damage calc
i believe antinomy damage is calc'd as per blade tempest, base damage as phys plus base damage as ele

Arcane antinomy is based on 150% of Max MP plus magic attack and wep damage.

@thread
Idk why people insist veno damage is useless. Yeah its not a wiz or anything but i wouldn't call it useless. Many times veno damage helps in killing off an opponent especially in a situation where other team members are busy (stunned, ganked whatever). If the veno was vit dealing shet damage the person would just survive, kite, get their stuff ready, come back and maybe even kill someone off the team. It all comes down to different scenarios and situations and as someone who pvps a lot i can assure you a venos damage has helped a lot on multiple ocassions. Sorry but theres no ideal world where your big dds are available to assist dd at any given time making venos damage pointless.
Besides there's cooldowns and at one point a veno has to either wait or assist dd. The latter is more useful.

Most people ignore all the things a veno has and limit themselves or teach other venos that all they are good for is purge, an amp here and there, some bewitch on occassion and ofc course to go demon and run around trying to proc ironwood doing nothing else (dont get me wrong i love demon). Sorry to say but most people expect that and will counter 0pdef unless they are in a situation they cant (no pots, skills cd, w/e) In the past 3-4 months ive maybe died thrice from 0pdef in pk and maybe 5-6 times in tw + nw at best (granted i skip some nws, lazy). Many times i just countered that 0pdef or a charm did. I've died more to a d.nova(+random debuff like myriad or EP or whatever) than ironwood. Ofc unless there are loots of demons present that proc it left and right.
Not saying vit build sucks but people overglorify that build when it has a very specific use/role and is definitely not the best veno build as it has plenty of drawbacks. There's not best build, just whatever suits people.

Tap into both natural and arcane magics, creating a
powerful blast from their antipodal energy. Deals base
magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 150% of
your maximum Mana

base damage as phys + base damage as ele


veno is 10 times more factor in pvp when she covers a support-shotcaller role rather than DD role​​

booker27

limonazza said:

veno is 10 times more factor in pvp when she covers a support-shotcaller role rather than DD role​​

I said nothing about a veno playing DD role instead of support. they can do BOTH and i prefer a veno that can do both (along with other things venos often ignore like chi burn) instead of one focusing solely on purge and ironwood proc.

Also cooldowns are a thing apart of myriad its not like they can spam purge/amp/etc. non stop so then they have time to assist DD.

shade13

There was a time before reawakening update, when most best geared venos were full vit or hybrid. I think I was the only pure magic who PKed. I guess they found something appealing in it since they chose it or maybe just followed the trend. Though I think they were late with it. Time when full vit fox really shined had ended long before that.
Then our population decreased, some died out, some switched to DD type. And now you can hardly find a dedicated full vit fan.

I was also full vit long ago and loved it. But when I couldn't kill or deal any formidable damage anymore I had to reconsider my choice.​​

limonazza

shade13 wrote: »

There was a time before reawakening update, when most best geared venos were full vit or hybrid. I think I was the only pure magic who PKed. I guess they found something appealing in it since they chose it or maybe just followed the trend. Though I think they were late with it. Time when full vit fox really shined had ended long before that.
Then our population decreased, some died out, some switched to DD type. And now you can hardly find a dedicated full vit fan.

I was also full vit long ago and loved it. But when I couldn't kill or deal any formidable damage anymore I had to reconsider my choice.

you got bored of your class i guess if you went to look for pvp damage​​

prancing

Support players seem to be the minority, thus there is small risk in playing a support cleric / veno.

Since you don't need to kill stuff, the price of such a character is also much cheaper.

jadasia

prancing said:

Support players seem to be the minority, thus there is small risk in playing a support cleric / veno.

Since you don't need to kill stuff, the price of such a character is also much cheaper.

I think it's the I want to be the hero complex. Everybody wants to be the main DDers instead of being the support. You notice that in instance squads. Venos who don't amp and purge or throw chi to the tank or other members, clerics who do not heal because they want to DD.

Personally at this stage in the game I see absolutely no reason at all for being a vit veno. I have no points other than the bare minimum of 5 allocated for vit. If I could take those away to and put in Mag I would and I'm still pushing 23K HP unbuffed. I still have a lot of refining to do too. I have the bare minimum in dex and strength as well. My HP comes from gear and cards and star chart only. Vit build makes no sense to me.