Salvaging and Dailies should Not give Rough AD!

pestilence149 · October 2013

kimonka wrote: »

What were you doing for AD before buying the character slots?

Yeah, most of my profit does come from dungeons/skirmishes. For a dungeon it usually takes 1 hour, skirmishes are 30 minutes, but that's just with pugs.
You could get more AD by taking on both rhix's and lord's pvp quests. Doing just 4 quick ones will net you 12k?.

Even if I did all the dailies, I would have far more Rough AD then I can even manage

What am I gonna do with AD I cant even use? and just sits their accumulating?

runebane · October 2013

kimonka wrote: »

What were you doing for AD before buying the character slots?

Dailies, Leadership, and Skirmish.

Honestly though, I always had a few extra slots. When I first started playing the first thing I did was spend a little money and open up 4 more slots giving me 6. On four of them I ran foundry and pvp dailies (was no Lord Protector stuff back then of course). Also wasn't making as much from Leadership, as I didn't have any characters that were 20 in it yet. The last 2 Slots I kept dedicated to only running blacklake skirmishes. Whenever they'd out level the skirmish, I'd delete the character.

Not bothered with it in a long time, but... Black lake skirmish can be run in less than 10 minutes, with the same AD reward as the higher level skirmishes. And unless its changed Queues for it were almost instant. I've ran it as many as 10 times in a single skirmish hour.

After my initial slot purchases I started using AD for it. Gradually got more slots every now and then when I had enough AD. And as I felt like leveling up new characters to 11. Then I went a bit crazy when they had the sale. I still have slots waiting to be filled now.

runebane · October 2013

pestilence149 wrote: »

Gold sinks? I think there is more then enough gold sinks.. Auction house 10% Cut? Transmuting costs? Seriously the only way to win in this game it seems is to do it un-legitimately, and the only thing they are hurting is the legit players with less money. Like the other guy said, if you even attempt to farm on your main, you have more Rough AD then you even know what to do with what a joke.. More gold sinks what a crock.

Those are AD sinks. Not gold.

*The only gold sinks we have are potions and kits. If you don't run a lot of dungeons they don't even affect you.*

samuraim0 · October 2013

khimera906 wrote: »

This restriction is in place to prevent inflation. It may seems hindering to you, but for the economy of the game is very useful.
I too end up with more rough AD than I can refine sometimes so I slow down a bit, and skip a few dailies or DDs.
Speaking of the economy and inflation, I think we should have a few gold sinks as well, but I am getting off topic here.

imo this 25k limit is not good it is limiting people to spend the should at least increase it to 50k especially for this event now where people can get up to 256k rAD

syka08 · October 2013

I've only started hitting the refinement cap because I'm a little discouraged by the Zen market right now and am scrounging around purples off of the AH to refine to make a profit. Otherwise I only had this problem BRIEFLY during the Tymora event. I'd consider myself to be a fairly average player, not spending more than 3 to 4 hours a day on the game.

But I wholly support the RAD daily refining limit. I also agree that things could get mixed up a bit so that some profession tasks generate AD, not RAD. But, otherwise, the system is WAI and I personally don't think it needs serious change, maybe just lightly tweaking.

tybrus8 · October 2013

You may call me a ****,but i been playing a while . Can someone explain the refined and regular thing to me? I always get the refined and turn it into AD. But i still have no idea what it all means? Is there a set amount limit im missing some place? Thanks!

tybrus8 · October 2013

Also what is this about refining blue items ? how does this work! i must have missed this class! Thanks

runebane · October 2013

tybrus8 wrote: »

You may call me a ****,but i been playing a while . Can someone explain the refined and regular thing to me? I always get the refined and turn it into AD. But i still have no idea what it all means? Is there a set amount limit im missing some place? Thanks!

AD can not be used to buy anything until it is refined.

Generally anything that creates AD from nothing gives you rough. AD you get from Leadership, Invoking, Dailies, and Salvage are all rough AD. You have to refine it before you can spend it. You can only refine 24,000 AD a day per character.

Selling stuff on the AH gives you refined AD since someone else is buying your stuff with AD that they already refined.

adernath · October 2013

pestilence149 wrote:

It seems like I always end up with way more rough AD then I can even manage (...)

goddessunique wrote:

Lvl 20 leadership on 6 chars helps alot. (...)

runebane wrote:

At the moment I've got 31 characters. (...)

Wow guys, get a life...

sasheria · October 2013

adernath wrote: »

Wow guys, get a life...

Keep in mind that Runebane did ALL the characters in 30 minutes (which can be done) log in, invoke, pick your profession and done for the DAY.

That is less time than some people spend getting ready and have breakfast.

snotty · October 2013

The BoP and Salvage and the server merging have helped reduce and control the prices in AH thus helping to control the economy in game. I see no reason not to raise the refine limit back up at this point. I've seen a pretty quick drop in prices for many high priced items since the merge. With all the sales being on 1 server the supply vs demand have been lowered. Vorpal shards for instance are pretty cheap now, almost have the price they were before the merge. Epic gear also have dropped in price.

Now admittedly most players rarely hit the 24k refine limit but for those of us that do, we're basically being punished for actually playing the game long enough to hit the limit. It makes no sense to make an event that gives you more rough AD's then you can refine. It would only be useful if say I couldn't play for a few days thus not make any extra rough ADs but then its also useless since I wouldn't be able to refine the roughs until I can play again.

Now that would be different if say, it automatically refined your roughs if you log in or not. But either way, I don't see the devs doing anything to change this since Im not 100% sure they in fact totally understand the game they've created. Maybe if they played it like the rest of us stuff wouldn't be broken for as long as some things are.

syka08 · October 2013

There's supposed to be an auto-refine mechanism that activates after 24 hours of you either not logging in or not doing anything with your RAD. I'm at a loss for details and specifics, so if anyone else knows that would like to chime in, please do. I've only just found out about this recently and would like to learn more, though any information I've found is both impartial and rather scattered over many months.

bluedarky · October 2013

syka08 wrote: »

There's supposed to be an auto-refine mechanism that activates after 24 hours of you either not logging in or not doing anything with your RAD. I'm at a loss for details and specifics, so if anyone else knows that would like to chime in, please do. I've only just found out about this recently and would like to learn more, though any information I've found is both impartial and rather scattered over many months.

When you login it should automatically refine up to 24k AD + any of the refine limit left over from the previous day.

On the subject of the limit it's in place to prevent inflation since most AD will be traded through the AH or Exchange several times before being spent into an AD sink. It's for the same reason as why your national mint can only release X amount of money per month as well. (For those who complain that money never leaves circulation it can, both coins and notes can become too damaged to be legal tender as well as lost down drains or into rivers ect. Although this obviously never happens on the same scale as ingame but the reasoning is the same.)

chuamishael · October 2013

play several characters. then problem solve.

syka08 · October 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

When you login it should automatically refine up to 24k AD + any of the refine limit left over from the previous day.

Maybe I need to stop refining on Gateway to just test this. But good to know! Thank you.

pestilence149 · October 2013

snotty wrote: »

The BoP and Salvage and the server merging have helped reduce and control the prices in AH thus helping to control the economy in game. I see no reason not to raise the refine limit back up at this point. I've seen a pretty quick drop in prices for many high priced items since the merge. With all the sales being on 1 server the supply vs demand have been lowered. Vorpal shards for instance are pretty cheap now, almost have the price they were before the merge. Epic gear also have dropped in price.

Now admittedly most players rarely hit the 24k refine limit but for those of us that do, we're basically being punished for actually playing the game long enough to hit the limit. It makes no sense to make an event that gives you more rough AD's then you can refine. It would only be useful if say I couldn't play for a few days thus not make any extra rough ADs but then its also useless since I wouldn't be able to refine the roughs until I can play again.

Now that would be different if say, it automatically refined your roughs if you log in or not. But either way, I don't see the devs doing anything to change this since Im not 100% sure they in fact totally understand the game they've created. Maybe if they played it like the rest of us stuff wouldn't be broken for as long as some things are.

EXACTLY... Seriously mate, I don't want to play my other 60 TR/DC/GF/GWF I want to play my main PVE character to do those dailies plus make some extra diamonds... not to be "punished" for playing your game.. I can understand profs/praying etc but Dailies + Salvaging hard-earned epic.. with your new event people wont even be able to refine 256k AD for roughly 11 days.. so on top of my professions + dailies + salvaging, I will NEVER refine it all unless I quit and slowly refine it while not playing for weeks upon weeks, think again Cryptic with the servers merged and economy starting to balance us legitimate players need a way to make more AD since you've made it so ridiculously tough ( BOP Patch cough.. ) this needs to be changed, Salvages + Dailies ( such as pvp/dungeons/foundry ) Should all be awarded as fully refined diamonds who else agrees?

-Pestilence

Edit ; Not to mention I have multiple 60's playing another character is not the issue, the issue is I want to play my MAIN character.

pestilence149 · October 2013

zebular wrote: »

. . . . . Yeah, I make more than that a week when I want. 256k really isn't that much, especially considering the costly AD sinks like the mount and companion upgrades as well as transmuting costs and removing enchants, among the myriad of other AD sinks like the Wondrous Bazaar.

Totally forgot about removing enchants/upgrading mount&companions

just more ways to lose AD including 10% AH Fee and transmutes.. And to the other kid when I said gold and you replied the only gold sink is pots and kits I really meant AD sorry for the typo.

To Godess; might have to talk in game, 6 full leadership 20 is impressive! Also very shocked on the amount of RAD you obtained, I mainly have problems on my main from leadership/salvaging/Dungeon Delves( now complete junk for geared players and thanks again cryptic you really "helped" the average gamer achieve his full set now that it's 800k-1.2kk a piece )
-Pestilence

manathayria · October 2013

It essentially means you're either going to be playing alts, moving the epics you want to salvage to alts to salvage, or selling the epics for pre-refined AD at a slight loss so you can get your refined AD a bit faster. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

They did the refine cap to try controlling the market a little - if you're that hard up on the salvage cap try leveling other professions that may give you a net profit that is not going to break into you needing to salvage for it.

Personally, most of my characters are low enough on leadership that I'm not making even close to cap - and with all the exploiting parties I don't feel comfortable pugging most content. I much rather a solid legit run than a shaky exploited one.

pestilence149 · October 2013

manathayria wrote: »

It essentially means you're either going to be playing alts, moving the epics you want to salvage to alts to salvage, or selling the epics for pre-refined AD at a slight loss so you can get your refined AD a bit faster. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

They did the refine cap to try controlling the market a little - if you're that hard up on the salvage cap try leveling other professions that may give you a net profit that is not going to break into you needing to salvage for it.

Personally, most of my characters are low enough on leadership that I'm not making even close to cap - and with all the exploiting parties I don't feel comfortable pugging most content. I much rather a solid legit run than a shaky exploited one.

By the way you must of seen my previous post stating I'd rather play my MAIN not my other 6 60s.

On a second note it isn't hard to do a legit run, do it all the time.. Hard part is finding a group ( non pug ) to split loot/finish the easier dungeons successfully.

-Pestilence

Edit; Not to mention the DD chest is usually BOP and is another way for RAD to sit an accumulate, sweet no more DDs for my main?

slayorian · October 2013

Do people not realize that raising the refining limit is just going to increase prices in the AH? It's very simple economics.

Let's say they doubled the refine limit. Yeah, sure, you'll burn your RAD pile down faster. But guess what, you'll have to pay twice as much for those items you wanted on the AH anyway. In the end, you're only <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> yourself out of RAD that you can sit on and leisurely refine for a constant stream of income.

Either work it out with alts or deal with having tons of RAD. Those are the two options that don't break the economy.

Personally, I enjoy not having to worry about farming up some more RAD for a while. If I could get the 256k RAD on all 10 of my chars then that's a guaranteed 240k AD/day coming in for about 10 days without even having to try.

goddessunique · October 2013

I have the perfect solution, why not make rad account wide? Any character you make will be able to refine 24k a day out of the pool of rad.

manathayria · October 2013

pestilence149 wrote: »

By the way you must of seen my previous post stating I'd rather play my MAIN not my other 6 60s.

On a second note it isn't hard to do a legit run, do it all the time.. Hard part is finding a group ( non pug ) to split loot/finish the easier dungeons successfully.

-Pestilence

Edit; Not to mention the DD chest is usually BOP and is another way for RAD to sit an accumulate, sweet no more DDs for my main?

I was referring to sending BoE that you salvage to your alts. Getting a legit run isnt too hard, but getting a legit run out of LFM/Random has been.

Honestly, its not anyone else's 'fault' you guys are well off in the game. The caps are there to help control and limit the inflation, there is absolutely no incentive to lift the cap, or to make RAD an account wide refine - unless they make it a part of their more expensive packs (if they release others like the HoTN one). If they do something that they would consider 'game breaking' that would alter the economy that much they'd probably do it for cash.

That said, STO has the same restriction and has since its release and they have not eased off on it either. Even with multiple threads like this one.

pestilence149 · October 2013

Yeah seems silly for me to even play y main character or attempt any DDs I guess it is safe to say I am done PVEing then, time just to enjoy the game for pvp purposes only. Hope to see ya on the battlefield good luck everyone

Sincerely,
Pestilence

amenar · October 2013

Hey Guys,

So, we have the refine limits for several reasons, most of which have been pointed out by players in this thread already. One of the main reasons is to help balance the economy by preventing inflation, both from normal play and from exploits. It also helps greatly reduce the impact of botting, as the cap is designed around the high end of “typical play session time” that our player base has. This has the negative effect of preventing our players that play a whole lot from being able to refine as much as they could possibly want, but also makes sure that a bot that can farm 24 hours a day can’t ruin the economy before we can catch it. While we’d like to not have any potential frustration points for our players, we feel that the system makes the game as a whole better.

We do talk about the refinement cap pretty regularly, and have had several discussions about possible ways we could reduce the impact of the refinement cap for dedicated players, while keeping the caps in place for bots and the like, but that is a very difficult problem to solve. I’ll make sure to bring these concerns up again in our discussion.

Hope this helps, and thanks for all the passionate feedback.

brobora · October 2013

How would a proposal to refine an extra 4k rough ad at the end of every epic dungeon scale into the economy?

How would any of us feel about such a proposal should the developers run the numbers and find that it doesn't jeopardise the economy?

In this method people with serious rough ad backlog would be able to run somewhere like Spellplague (or better for the farmer/bot issue somewhere like CTower or Cragmire where an appropriate NPC can be placed) whereas others near the cap can instantly refine Dungeon Delve event box loot if it isn't what they wanted.

zebular · October 2013

amenar wrote: »

Hey Guys,

So, we have the refine limits for several reasons, most of which have been pointed out by players in this thread already. One of the main reasons is to help balance the economy by preventing inflation, both from normal play and from exploits. It also helps greatly reduce the impact of botting, as the cap is designed around the high end of “typical play session time” that our player base has. This has the negative effect of preventing our players that play a whole lot from being able to refine as much as they could possibly want, but also makes sure that a bot that can farm 24 hours a day can’t ruin the economy before we can catch it. While we’d like to not have any potential frustration points for our players, we feel that the system makes the game as a whole better.

We do talk about the refinement cap pretty regularly, and have had several discussions about possible ways we could reduce the impact of the refinement cap for dedicated players, while keeping the caps in place for bots and the like, but that is a very difficult problem to solve. I’ll make sure to bring these concerns up again in our discussion.

Hope this helps, and thanks for all the passionate feedback.

. . . . . Many thanks for the response. I'd like to point out my response to a very similar thread on the points you mentioned, just for clarity since my response in this thread doesn't justly point out my opinions and feedback.

zebular wrote: »

. . . . . As much as I sympathize with people at their refinement cap, I cannot agree to any good outcome to justify raising the refinement cap. I have two characters that regularly hit the cap and while it would be nice to raise it and refine it all... doing so would mean that all the prices in the Auction House and Astral Diamond exchange would go through the roof. Everyone using the "I cannot afford an item in the AH" as an excuse as to why the cap should be raised would be right back in here then complaining at how insane the AH prices are after raising such a cap.

. . . . . I hope folks realize that if you increase the amount of Refined AD pouring into the game this is almost immediately reflected in the player driven market, raising how much people want and are willing to spend on things, yes? Raising the AD Cap would not benefit such players, it would actually have an adverse effect.

. . . . . Heck, just from the flood of Rough Astral Diamonds into the game, Zen pricing jumped from 340 AD per Zen to now 370+ AD per Zen. Items that once cost between 6,000 AD to 10,000 AD on the exchange are now selling for 50,000 AD to 60,000 AD. I do not even want to imagine what the economy would be like if they were to also increase the Refinement Cap.

cribstaxxx · October 2013

goddessunique wrote: »

I have the perfect solution, why not make rad account wide? Any character you make will be able to refine 24k a day out of the pool of rad.

Lol then you could just make 5 level 1's as refining bots...

mytgroo · October 2013

Yes, they should give rough ad. There are too many people grinding away in the PVP areas and Gauntlygrim to get daily amounts of astral diamonds. This was at least partially a way to make it so people did not have to constantly grind by creating a surplus of daily gold that would not enter the market.

Also, flooding the market with astral diamonds would cause the prices to rise. They already are too high. This helps keep the prices down a bit, and lets people focus on what they are interested in. It will mean less fast runs on dungeons to get astral diamonds and other exploits,.

ambisinisterr · October 2013

amenar wrote: »

Hey Guys,

So, we have the refine limits for several reasons, most of which have been pointed out by players in this thread already. One of the main reasons is to help balance the economy by preventing inflation, both from normal play and from exploits. It also helps greatly reduce the impact of botting, as the cap is designed around the high end of “typical play session time” that our player base has. This has the negative effect of preventing our players that play a whole lot from being able to refine as much as they could possibly want, but also makes sure that a bot that can farm 24 hours a day can’t ruin the economy before we can catch it. While we’d like to not have any potential frustration points for our players, we feel that the system makes the game as a whole better.

We do talk about the refinement cap pretty regularly, and have had several discussions about possible ways we could reduce the impact of the refinement cap for dedicated players, while keeping the caps in place for bots and the like, but that is a very difficult problem to solve. I’ll make sure to bring these concerns up again in our discussion.

Hope this helps, and thanks for all the passionate feedback.

Thanks for the insightful response!

Honestly I almost never hit the cap and I play a fair amount. If anything I would argue the cap is too hard to reach unless you dedicate playtime to dailies. I did that when the game first came out but now I am generally lucky to get any dailies done because I am usually busy doing other activities which I enjoy more and don't count for dailies.

In fact, as anybody who frequents the Foundry Forums should know by now I would rather do standard content with friends than do Foundry Content and it's 100% because of the poorly set up daily. The way this daily i designed makes me happier to not do it than to feel like every time I play a Foundry mission for any reason other than a Foundry Daily Farm that I get stabbed in the back.

Speaking of, for the love of Mystra, I hate Dread Vault. Completely. It's the only dungeon I never, ever, ever, ever want to do. Ever.
Please give me another option so I can actually get rewarded for doing the dungeons I enjoy...which is anything besides Dread Vault.

So yeah. I don't get a lot of AD to refine. Now that I think of it that's 7K AD a days I could get but don't. Why?
because I'm having fun.

Meh...fun is more important. But it would be nice if you did a sweep over the dailies to make them actually reward players for enjoying the game rather than forcing them into farming dailies before they can enjoy the game.

zebular · October 2013

. . . . . Yeah, I rarely do the dailies because I just don't like the the objectives they are assigned to and they make me feel as though the game is forcing me to play things I don't like just to gain AD - there needs to be more variety - like have some of them be "Complete This" or "This" or "This" to allow a player to decide which one they would prefer to do to complete that specific daily. The exception is the Foundry Dailies. I don't care for Gauntlegrym or PvP. There needs to be a Sharandar related AD Daily as well. The Dread Vault needs changed to be ANY delve. So strange to single out a single delve while ignoring the rest.

Salvaging and Dailies should Not give Rough AD!

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