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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › Bug Reports (PC)

Lionheart set bonus additive with critsev and CA

thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
in Bug Reports (PC)
It is a rather underwhelming set bonus considering the damage portion of it adds with critical severity and combat advantage at the moment. I don't have the mighty set to test it, but if the mighty set is multiplicative, it is better.


Base Damage of Wyvern Venom-Coated Knives: 2602.24
Power due to weapons: 21766
Damage bonus: 10%
Critical Severity: 82%
Controlled Momentum: 2%

Non Crit
2602.24*(1+21766/100000)*1.1=3485.508 (Working as intended).

Crit, with Controlled Momentum:
2602.24*(1+21766/100000)*(1+0.82+0.1)*1.02=6205.47 (Not working as intended).

How it should work (How other item buffs work):
2602.24*(1+21766/100000)*(1+0.82)*1.1*1.02=6470.497
Our Imaginary Friends are better than yours.
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Comments

  • sekosek#5740 sekosek
    sekosek#5740
         Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Looks like the same problem as Barbarian/Fighter/Cleric damage formula. I hope they all get fixed as soon as possible.

    After all that grind and effort this weapons should worth it.
  • cust0mxcust0mx Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    Please fix the damage buff formula on the new set, its supposed to be the "BIS" weapon for "a while" and its barely better than burnished. Thx sharp for testing it.
  • orangebangorangebang Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 55 Arc User
    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    orangebang said:

    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.

    Yep just hoping updates comes to preview in short as will require every aspect of game to be re-tested entirely.
  • tom#6998 tom
    tom#6998
         Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    orangebang said:

    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.

    the thing is they also claimed it would be BIS for a significant amount of time.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    orangebang said:

    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.

    the thing is they also claimed it would be BIS for a significant amount of time.
    Won't them be BiS after dmg formula rework?
  • tom#6998 tom
    tom#6998
         Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    ramesh84 said:

    tom#6998 said:

    orangebang said:

    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.

    the thing is they also claimed it would be BIS for a significant amount of time.
    Won't them be BiS after dmg formula rework?
    prolly, depends on how they rework it. I just hope they figure out what they want to do and implemen it asap.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    noworries#8859 said:


    The Plan:

    We looked at a few ways to approach the different aspects combining together and we agree that separating out CA, Crit, and Buffs is the most intuitive for players and will feel the best. To be clear that means it would roughly be this:

    Final Damage = Damage * CA * Crit Sev * combination of all buffs.

    It is unfortunately also the adjustment that will change balance the most and therefore will be a little while before the changes hit live (which will hopefully include some preview server sessions as well).

    This change will increase player damage by ~33%, which means we will need to do an increase to critter health to compensate.

    The same formulas that apply to players also apply to critters, which means critter damage will go up depending on the situation (if they are have high enough crit rating to crit the player, if they are in a position of combat advantage and have enough rating to cause combat advantage). This will be a tougher adjustment to make since for maxed out players, they are currently negating both of those enemy ratings and wouldn't see a damage increase, but for players not as maxed out they would.


    Because of those factors, we're going to want to test these changes longer and not push them into a near upcoming patch before we're sure the balance is still in a good place after the adjustments. And as I mentioned above, that will hopefully include some time on preview to get additional balance feedback before pushing it out to live.

    reference: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1250930/pc-bugged-self-buffs-on-the-asterdahl-classes
    As announced, formula will be
    dmg= weapons * magnitude * (1 + power / 100000) * ( 1 + crit * severity ) * (1 + ca) * ( arp_resistance) * (1- targetdeflectChance * deflectSeverity) * ( 1 + SUM OF ALL DAMAGE BUFFS) * (1 + SUM OF ALL DEBUFFS)
    According to that, lionheart are BiS to me. Looking forward to change too, but the huge impact the change has on whole game requires fast implementation and accurate preview testing for each mob/map.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek
    sekosek#5740
         Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    orangebang said:

    That's the way it's supposed to work, it was mentioned that they are supposed to be additive in a dev stream, not multiplicative. They all will be additive is what they said.

    Yes, devs said all buffs/debuffs will be additive, but problem is not its being additive, its being additive with combat advantage and crit severity. There is actually a huge difference there.
  • viraaalviraaal Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    The bonus is *currently* WAI (after the damage changes this will have to be changed also), the issue is that with the current state of the game, that damage bonus with its given values is not significant. With the players obtaining around 200k power, the increase to power granted from burnished outweights this bonus, and the 3% weapon damage is the only real positive going for it. In order for this bonus to seem powerful, it probably needs upgrading to around 25% . Otherwise the set bonus from burnished might keep it bis or near enough to where you will not notice any damage increase from lionheart.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Considering the amount of effort it takes to acquire them, they are a very underwhelming set for dps classes. For a tank, the bonus is actually good (it actually reduces incoming damage by 10%) and for a healer, it is also good. It is only dps who get shafted here. The developers stated it was intended to be BiS and while it is, it is by such a small margin that it isn't worthwhile farming for them. As someone who plays a DpS, I am not happy with this set.
    Our Imaginary Friends are better than yours.
  • hrakhhrakh Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    It's been a while since I was in professional bug triage. isn't the number of customers affected a major factor in determining criticality?

    ....

    Ok, ok, I honestly hope it gets fixed asap, but I gotta give in to my jealousy now and then :)
  • jbball92#2946 jbball92
    jbball92#2946
         Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Cliffs:
    >set is bis
    >”not bis enough”
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    jbball92#2946 said:

    Cliffs:

    >set is bis

    >”not bis enough”

    The difference between this set and the other sets is so small for DpS, that measuring it is something you can only do on paper and doesn't really exist in practice. It is less than 1%. For healers and tanks it is more like 7%+ and you can actually feel the difference.
    Our Imaginary Friends are better than yours.
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf
    silverwolf#7884
         Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    hrakh said:

    It's been a while since I was in professional bug triage. isn't the number of customers affected a major factor in determining criticality?



    ....



    Ok, ok, I honestly hope it gets fixed asap, but I gotta give in to my jealousy now and then :)

    Well by that logic all Warlock dps bugs were quite high but are now quite low. :P
  • hrakhhrakh Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    silverwolf#7884 said:

    hrakh said:

    It's been a while since I was in professional bug triage. isn't the number of customers affected a major factor in determining criticality?



    ....



    Ok, ok, I honestly hope it gets fixed asap, but I gotta give in to my jealousy now and then :)

    Well by that logic all Warlock dps bugs were quite high but are now quite low. :P
    Unfortunately, true, but I am willing to bet there are still substantially more warlocks than there are players that finished TOMM :)

    But, a large part of my issue with the current state of warlocks is that if you present them as a viable DPS class, you better deliver. Same goes here, if you present those weapons as BIS for the foreseeable future, They darn well better be just that.

    Can't be that novel of a concept to not just spin the marketing hype, but to DELIVER on its promises.

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan
    mebengalsfan#9264
         Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    thefabricant said:

    Considering the amount of effort it takes to acquire them, they are a very underwhelming set for dps classes. For a tank, the bonus is actually good (it actually reduces incoming damage by 10%) and for a healer, it is also good. It is only dps who get shafted here. The developers stated it was intended to be BiS and while it is, it is by such a small margin that it isn't worthwhile farming for them. As someone who plays a DpS, I am not happy with this set.

    I wonder how the set would perform after the devs applies their updated damage formula across the game. You could do the math on paper vs. the current sets to get a general idea and given that the lionheart set has a higher base damage it should be BiS once that is done.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    mebengalsfan#9264 said:


    thefabricant said:

    Considering the amount of effort it takes to acquire them, they are a very underwhelming set for dps classes. For a tank, the bonus is actually good (it actually reduces incoming damage by 10%) and for a healer, it is also good. It is only dps who get shafted here. The developers stated it was intended to be BiS and while it is, it is by such a small margin that it isn't worthwhile farming for them. As someone who plays a DpS, I am not happy with this set.

    I wonder how the set would perform after the devs applies their updated damage formula across the game. You could do the math on paper vs. the current sets to get a general idea and given that the lionheart set has a higher base damage it should be BiS once that is done.
    The Lionheart weapon set was built correctly (according to our internal specifications) but because other buffs have not yet been changed over, and because these buffs are currently going into the same pool as CA, they're weaker than intended. Once the buff changes that Noworries has detailed go into effect, the Lionheart weapons should be substantially superior to the next best choice.

    We are actively working on those changes, and hope to have them on the preview server in the not too distant future. I apologize for the delay on those changes as we work on them. We're aiming to have these changes on the live server before any other weapons of the same tier are introduced. And, as I've mentioned in other threads, any additional weapons added at that tier will feature a weaker bonus than the Lionheart weapons, we intend for the Lionheart weapons to remain BiS for a long while.

    If you have any thoughts on the general adjustments to buffs and how they interact with CA, etc. please provide that feedback in the thread discussing that topic.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    sekosek#5740 said:

    asterdahl said:

    mebengalsfan#9264 said:



    I wonder how the set would perform after the devs applies their updated damage formula across the game. You could do the math on paper vs. the current sets to get a general idea and given that the lionheart set has a higher base damage it should be BiS once that is done.

    The Lionheart weapon set was built correctly (according to our internal specifications) but because other buffs have not yet been changed over, and because these buffs are currently going into the same pool as CA, they're weaker than intended. Once the buff changes that Noworries has detailed go into effect, the Lionheart weapons should be substantially superior to the next best choice.

    We are actively working on those changes, and hope to have them on the preview server in the not too distant future. I apologize for the delay on those changes as we work on them. We're aiming to have these changes on the live server before any other weapons of the same tier are introduced. And, as I've mentioned in other threads, any additional weapons added at that tier will feature a weaker bonus than the Lionheart weapons, we intend for the Lionheart weapons to remain BiS for a long while.

    If you have any thoughts on the general adjustments to buffs and how they interact with CA, etc. please provide that feedback in the thread discussing that topic.
    So its good to know that you are working on the correct damage formula. But its also sad that ToMM is already released before the fixes. 70-80% of the dps players of finished parties are Wizards and rest of them are Rouges and Hunters. Those players farmed and dropped rings and artifacts worth hundreds of millions astral diamonds (I know there are only a few parties that finished so far). Damage of Barb/Fighter/Cleric/Warlock are too low compared to Wizard/Hunter/Rouge and these classes can't even find a party to play or practice. So half of the classes gained unfair profit compared to other classes. People say change paragons and your role to find a party, but changing roles requires another heavy investment that costs millions of ADs. I hope there will be some kind of compensation about this once problem gets fixed. Because every mod there is some kind of big failure and all you do about this saying that "We are sorry.".


    there is a role for everyone in tomm though. and the dps slots are the easiest to fill. soooo.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek
    sekosek#5740
         Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    thefiresidecat said:

    sekosek#5740 said:

    asterdahl said:

    mebengalsfan#9264 said:



    I wonder how the set would perform after the devs applies their updated damage formula across the game. You could do the math on paper vs. the current sets to get a general idea and given that the lionheart set has a higher base damage it should be BiS once that is done.

    The Lionheart weapon set was built correctly (according to our internal specifications) but because other buffs have not yet been changed over, and because these buffs are currently going into the same pool as CA, they're weaker than intended. Once the buff changes that Noworries has detailed go into effect, the Lionheart weapons should be substantially superior to the next best choice.

    We are actively working on those changes, and hope to have them on the preview server in the not too distant future. I apologize for the delay on those changes as we work on them. We're aiming to have these changes on the live server before any other weapons of the same tier are introduced. And, as I've mentioned in other threads, any additional weapons added at that tier will feature a weaker bonus than the Lionheart weapons, we intend for the Lionheart weapons to remain BiS for a long while.

    If you have any thoughts on the general adjustments to buffs and how they interact with CA, etc. please provide that feedback in the thread discussing that topic.
    So its good to know that you are working on the correct damage formula. But its also sad that ToMM is already released before the fixes. 70-80% of the dps players of finished parties are Wizards and rest of them are Rouges and Hunters. Those players farmed and dropped rings and artifacts worth hundreds of millions astral diamonds (I know there are only a few parties that finished so far). Damage of Barb/Fighter/Cleric/Warlock are too low compared to Wizard/Hunter/Rouge and these classes can't even find a party to play or practice. So half of the classes gained unfair profit compared to other classes. People say change paragons and your role to find a party, but changing roles requires another heavy investment that costs millions of ADs. I hope there will be some kind of compensation about this once problem gets fixed. Because every mod there is some kind of big failure and all you do about this saying that "We are sorry.".


    there is a role for everyone in tomm though. and the dps slots are the easiest to fill. soooo.
    Its easiest only if you are Cw/Tr/Hr. How many dps Dc or Gf have you seen so far ? And look at the wizard counts. Even on channels people specifically only ask for Cw/Tr...
  • tom#6998 tom
    tom#6998
         Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    > @sekosek#5740 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Its easiest only if you are Cw/Tr/Hr. How many dps Dc or Gf have you seen so far ? And look at the wizard counts. Even on channels people specifically only ask for Cw/Tr...

    What leads u to believe that those players would finish if there were cw/tr/hr? There are alot of endgame dps players of those classes and they still cant finish.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek
    sekosek#5740
         Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    > @sekosek#5740 said:

    > (Quote)

    > Its easiest only if you are Cw/Tr/Hr. How many dps Dc or Gf have you seen so far ? And look at the wizard counts. Even on channels people specifically only ask for Cw/Tr...



    What leads u to believe that those players would finish if there were cw/tr/hr? There are alot of endgame dps players of those classes and they still cant finish.

    As you said, to "finish it" you need to find a party first, if no one else is accepting your class because its broken, how can you even start running it?

    Also I've tried multiple classes damages with almost best in slot items, I can clearly say if players are decent, there are more than 30% damage difference between those classes just with the damage formula being broken. I am talking about numbers and I know who are the players in finished parties. Full of 4-5 wizards. Not even single dc/gf/gwf dps.

    Right now those people you say they can't finish are still learning and practising mechanics. After you learn mechanics and practice for few days its not that hard to finish it. After you learn the mechanics and get used to it, you just need to beat dps, healing and tanking checks.

    Not everyone tried out the trial for weeks like you guys. Just give them few weeks and more and more parties will achieve to finish it. I even saw a new party who finished it today who were practising for a week. But I am pretty sure it will still be full of Wizards and Rouges/Rangers.

    Congratulations on parties who finished the trial, I absolutely support their effort and hardwork, don't get me wrong. I am just saying, it is not fair for the characters that has broken damage formula because they have nothing to do about it. And now I am asking you if you claim all dpses are same, why did you guys make your party full of wizards?
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero
    zimxero#8085
         Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    sekosek#5740 said:

    tom#6998 said:

    > @sekosek#5740 said:

    > (Quote)

    > Its easiest only if you are Cw/Tr/Hr. How many dps Dc or Gf have you seen so far ? And look at the wizard counts. Even on channels people specifically only ask for Cw/Tr...



    What leads u to believe that those players would finish if there were cw/tr/hr? There are alot of endgame dps players of those classes and they still cant finish.

    As you said, to "finish it" you need to find a party first, if no one else is accepting your class because its broken, how can you even start running it?

    Also I've tried multiple classes damages with almost best in slot items, I can clearly say if players are decent, there are more than 30% damage difference between those classes just with the damage formula being broken. I am talking about numbers and I know who are the players in finished parties. Full of 4-5 wizards. Not even single dc/gf/gwf dps.

    Right now those people you say they can't finish are still learning and practising mechanics. After you learn mechanics and practice for few days its not that hard to finish it. After you learn the mechanics and get used to it, you just need to beat dps, healing and tanking checks.

    Not everyone tried out the trial for weeks like you guys. Just give them few weeks and more and more parties will achieve to finish it. I even saw a new party who finished it today who were practising for a week. But I am pretty sure it will still be full of Wizards and Rouges/Rangers.

    Congratulations on parties who finished the trial, I absolutely support their effort and hardwork, don't get me wrong. I am just saying, it is not fair for the characters that has broken damage formula because they have nothing to do about it. And now I am asking you if you claim all dpses are same, why did you guys make your party full of wizards?
    The topic here is "Lionheart Gear".

    As far as DPS goes, there is a pretty easy check to see if you have a chance at ToMM:

    Within a 30 second timer, with full unload, you need to be able to achieve:

    3-5 million damage with CA given for DPS class
    2-4 million damage with CA given for tank class

    Thats just a general suggestion. If you dont make those marks, your team must carry you at DPS check.

    In 30 seconds you can fire an artifact, a mount power, 2 dailies, all encounters a few times, and spam some at-wills. Its not hard to estimate damage from this. (Total of the magnitudes) x power x (crit severity + combat advantage) x damage bonus x 1% of your Weapon damage. Then add in an estimate for procs and special consideration adjustments. In a party you will be getting a 5-50% damage buff from allies. Figure on 10% to be conservative.
  • frodnikkfrodnikk Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Like with that stupid difficulty more than 5% of the server will get them so who cares. Raiding and teamspeak like we are playing wow rofl really...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan
    mebengalsfan#9264
         Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    mebengalsfan#9264 said:


    thefabricant said:

    Considering the amount of effort it takes to acquire them, they are a very underwhelming set for dps classes. For a tank, the bonus is actually good (it actually reduces incoming damage by 10%) and for a healer, it is also good. It is only dps who get shafted here. The developers stated it was intended to be BiS and while it is, it is by such a small margin that it isn't worthwhile farming for them. As someone who plays a DpS, I am not happy with this set.

    I wonder how the set would perform after the devs applies their updated damage formula across the game. You could do the math on paper vs. the current sets to get a general idea and given that the lionheart set has a higher base damage it should be BiS once that is done.
    The Lionheart weapon set was built correctly (according to our internal specifications) but because other buffs have not yet been changed over, and because these buffs are currently going into the same pool as CA, they're weaker than intended. Once the buff changes that Noworries has detailed go into effect, the Lionheart weapons should be substantially superior to the next best choice.

    We are actively working on those changes, and hope to have them on the preview server in the not too distant future. I apologize for the delay on those changes as we work on them. We're aiming to have these changes on the live server before any other weapons of the same tier are introduced. And, as I've mentioned in other threads, any additional weapons added at that tier will feature a weaker bonus than the Lionheart weapons, we intend for the Lionheart weapons to remain BiS for a long while.

    If you have any thoughts on the general adjustments to buffs and how they interact with CA, etc. please provide that feedback in the thread discussing that topic.
    Will all content including ToMM have the difficulty adjusted upward to reflect the increase in damage we will be doing with the changes to the damage formula?
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan
    mebengalsfan#9264
         Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    sekosek#5740 said:

    <

    As you said, to "finish it" you need to find a party first, if no one else is accepting your class because its broken, how can you even start running it?

    Also I've tried multiple classes damages with almost best in slot items, I can clearly say if players are decent, there are more than 30% damage difference between those classes just with the damage formula being broken. I am talking about numbers and I know who are the players in finished parties. Full of 4-5 wizards. Not even single dc/gf/gwf dps.

    Right now those people you say they can't finish are still learning and practising mechanics. After you learn mechanics and practice for few days its not that hard to finish it. After you learn the mechanics and get used to it, you just need to beat dps, healing and tanking checks.

    Not everyone tried out the trial for weeks like you guys. Just give them few weeks and more and more parties will achieve to finish it. I even saw a new party who finished it today who were practising for a week. But I am pretty sure it will still be full of Wizards and Rouges/Rangers.

    Congratulations on parties who finished the trial, I absolutely support their effort and hardwork, don't get me wrong. I am just saying, it is not fair for the characters that has broken damage formula because they have nothing to do about it. And now I am asking you if you claim all dpses are same, why did you guys make your party full of wizards?

    One thing you said wrong is that the Cleric, Fighter, and Barbarian is broken. It is the other way around in that Wizard, Rogue and Hunter are broken and doing more damage than expected. Sharp even stated that if those classes would be fix the groups beating ToMM may not have beaten it or have beaten it much less than they have. ToMM difficulty will be correct once the damage formula is adjusted and once content is adjusted to account for the higher damage all classes will produce.

    If content is not adjusted than ToMM will become beaten by more groups.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    mebengalsfan#9264 said:

    sekosek#5740 said:

    <

    As you said, to "finish it" you need to find a party first, if no one else is accepting your class because its broken, how can you even start running it?

    Also I've tried multiple classes damages with almost best in slot items, I can clearly say if players are decent, there are more than 30% damage difference between those classes just with the damage formula being broken. I am talking about numbers and I know who are the players in finished parties. Full of 4-5 wizards. Not even single dc/gf/gwf dps.

    Right now those people you say they can't finish are still learning and practising mechanics. After you learn mechanics and practice for few days its not that hard to finish it. After you learn the mechanics and get used to it, you just need to beat dps, healing and tanking checks.

    Not everyone tried out the trial for weeks like you guys. Just give them few weeks and more and more parties will achieve to finish it. I even saw a new party who finished it today who were practising for a week. But I am pretty sure it will still be full of Wizards and Rouges/Rangers.

    Congratulations on parties who finished the trial, I absolutely support their effort and hardwork, don't get me wrong. I am just saying, it is not fair for the characters that has broken damage formula because they have nothing to do about it. And now I am asking you if you claim all dpses are same, why did you guys make your party full of wizards?

    One thing you said wrong is that the Cleric, Fighter, and Barbarian is broken. It is the other way around in that Wizard, Rogue and Hunter are broken and doing more damage than expected.
    *warlock is said to be broken too, I read that class benefits from multiplier damage as well, even though it looks like there is no warlock ingame that can handle the class :/
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    schietindebux said:


    *warlock is said to be broken too, I read that class benefits from multiplier damage as well, even though it looks like there is no warlock ingame that can handle the class :/

    And is one of the classes that has the most ammount of multipliers (due to low magnitudes). Would be fun to watch my warlock not being able to deal with a lvl 1 mob. Plus all the changes in pvp, yay awesome pvp updated… i can't kill anything
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek
    sekosek#5740
         Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    mebengalsfan#9264 said:

    sekosek#5740 said:

    <

    As you said, to "finish it" you need to find a party first, if no one else is accepting your class because its broken, how can you even start running it?

    Also I've tried multiple classes damages with almost best in slot items, I can clearly say if players are decent, there are more than 30% damage difference between those classes just with the damage formula being broken. I am talking about numbers and I know who are the players in finished parties. Full of 4-5 wizards. Not even single dc/gf/gwf dps.

    Right now those people you say they can't finish are still learning and practising mechanics. After you learn mechanics and practice for few days its not that hard to finish it. After you learn the mechanics and get used to it, you just need to beat dps, healing and tanking checks.

    Not everyone tried out the trial for weeks like you guys. Just give them few weeks and more and more parties will achieve to finish it. I even saw a new party who finished it today who were practising for a week. But I am pretty sure it will still be full of Wizards and Rouges/Rangers.

    Congratulations on parties who finished the trial, I absolutely support their effort and hardwork, don't get me wrong. I am just saying, it is not fair for the characters that has broken damage formula because they have nothing to do about it. And now I am asking you if you claim all dpses are same, why did you guys make your party full of wizards?

    One thing you said wrong is that the Cleric, Fighter, and Barbarian is broken. It is the other way around in that Wizard, Rogue and Hunter are broken and doing more damage than expected. Sharp even stated that if those classes would be fix the groups beating ToMM may not have beaten it or have beaten it much less than they have. ToMM difficulty will be correct once the damage formula is adjusted and once content is adjusted to account for the higher damage all classes will produce.

    If content is not adjusted than ToMM will become beaten by more groups.
    Actually both sides of classes are broken, cw/hr/tr are dealing more damage than expected, and gwf/gf/dc are dealing less damage than expected. Cw/hr/tr/sw have multiplicative formula, this will be changed to additive according to devs. At the same time gwf/gf/dc have additive, but actually additive to crit sev and combat advantage. It shouldn't be added up to crit sev/combat adv. Buffs should have a seperate place in damage formula. This is also the same issue for this new lionheart weapons.

    Since gwf/gf/dc dps are not be able to find a party or finish the trial, that is why I referred them as broken. But yeah you are also correct. Subject that I'm not comfortable with is many players are farming and gaining unfair profit just because of this unbalanced damage formula.
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